Dingo Dog 1st July 2014, 08:24 PM Gents, I have a geared head lathe & and metal cutting band saw that require oil. What grade of oil for the lathe, what kind and grade for the band saw.
Thanks in advance.
DD
.RC. 1st July 2014, 08:52 PM Your question is like.
I bought a car, what oil should I put in the engine?
Wimmera Jack 1st July 2014, 09:39 PM Your question is like.
I bought a car, what oil should I put in the engine?
Well. That info was as useful as a chocolate Teapot.
Regards,
WJ
Michael G 1st July 2014, 09:46 PM Jack, machines are different. We have a lathe at work that takes ISO10 oil. All the other lathes take ISO46. Try using the wrong oil in the wrong lathe and you are heading for trouble.
DD, can you provide some details of what you have as someone may have the same machines and be able to tell you what the manual recommends.
Michael
RayG 1st July 2014, 11:41 PM Gents, I have a geared head lathe & and metal cutting band saw that require oil. What grade of oil for the lathe, what kind and grade for the band saw.
Thanks in advance.
DD
Any oil is better than none. If you don't have any literature to guide you, then you'll need to describe a bit about how the lubrication works on your lathe, is it splash lubricated? is it pressure fed? etc.. Make and Model of the Lathe would be a good starting point.
Generally splash lathe gearboxes like single grade ( not multigrade ) low viscosity ISO46? non detergent oils.
Non detergent, because the idea is that you want any fine metal particles to settle out, not stay suspended in the oil. Non Multigrade, because, unlike car engines, the temperatures never get very hot, so multigrade that retains properties at high temperature isn't what you need.
Ray.
PS.. No idea about the bandsaw, what sort is it? mine doesn't use oil..
Ueee 2nd July 2014, 12:12 AM I have ISO46 in the splash lubed head of the Antrac, probably the same in the band saws gearbox as i have 2 drums of it. The Holbrook likes ISO32 in the head, but the bearings like ISO10.
RC's post, while a little obtuse is dead right, what sort of machine's are we talking?
Ew
Michael, that must be a high speed lathe to want ISO10?
Michael G 2nd July 2014, 07:50 AM That must be a high speed lathe to want ISO10?
No, it's a big thing with around 600mm swing and 2m between centres. Given the nature of the rest of it (and perhaps being influenced by the origin) I wonder whether it was designed and built and then they tried various oils until they found one that got into all the nooks and crannies that it was meant to. We tried ISO46 and it just would not go anywhere...
Michael
.RC. 2nd July 2014, 08:08 AM My 17" Chin Hung specifies ISO10 and it only does 2000 rpm... I think the 10EE specified ISO20
Grahame Collins 2nd July 2014, 12:51 PM Hi Dingo Dog,
I can't help with the lathe oil and the band saw oil is a maybe.
If your band saw is the horizontal type with a worm drive gearbox sporting the brass type wheel,the following oil will suit- 85W- 140 API -GL-5.I got mine at Autobahn as a 1 litre Penrite gear oil.
Band saw worm drive gearboxes that sport the brass gears are prone to damage from the wrong sort of oil.This information came from the horiztontal band saw repair forums.
The story goes, that worm drive gearboxes on some cheap Chinese 4 x 6 types band saw gearboxes were loaded with the wrong sort of oil in the manufacture stage and down the track it was found that the brass components were disintegrated by the incorrect oil.The band saw typically is the RF 115 clone.
Myself, not wanting to take the chance on having to replace a potentially hard to get part, have got the recommended oil.
I hope this info can help you.
Grahame
Pete F 2nd July 2014, 08:35 PM It's actually the EP additives in the form of sulphur that cause the damage to yellow metals such as brass and bronze. As the gears mesh there's a localised increase in heat at the point of contact, and this is where the EP additives come in to their own. Unfortunately if there's copper in the metal (eg brass/bronze) that is affected by the sulphur and causes damage. Most gear oils that state they have EP additives are sulphur based, the give away is the distinctive smell. I believe that includes the one listed above. They should therefore not be used in gearboxes containing brass or bronze, especially if that metal is in the form of gears.
Dingo Dog 2nd July 2014, 08:41 PM The lathe is a TLC340A, Chinese built, it uses the splash method to lubricate the gears in the head. Instruction for correct lube is as follows from the manual "use oil 20". Says a lot doesnt it. The band saw is a BS-7L. Would Shell Tellus 46 be ok to use in both machines, as I have a 20L drum of it left over from a crane.
DD
Pete F 2nd July 2014, 08:51 PM It wouldn't be my ideal choice, but it's unlikely the world will stop turning if you used it. Hydraulic oils are normally rather bland affairs in terms of oils. Other than avoiding the EP additives for the bandsaw you can throw pretty much anything in that. With the lathe, an ISO 46 is pretty much middle of the road, but I'm not familiar with that lathe so wouldn't want to say for certain. My money would be on it being just fine however. Assuming it is just in the gearbox, the thing I'd watch for is the oil foaming at high speed. You'll just have to try it and see if it does that.
.RC. 2nd July 2014, 09:11 PM The lathe is a TLC340A, Chinese built, it uses the splash method to lubricate the gears in the head. Instruction for correct lube is as follows from the manual "use oil 20". Says a lot doesnt it. The band saw is a BS-7L. Would Shell Tellus 46 be ok to use in both machines, as I have a 20L drum of it left over from a crane.
DD
Yes that would do for the lathe... Bandsaw would prefer heavier stuff if it is going in the worm drive.. Something like diff oil would not go astray there...
Pete F 2nd July 2014, 11:08 PM Yes that would do for the lathe... Bandsaw would prefer heavier stuff if it is going in the worm drive.. Something like diff oil would not go astray there...
Agree, however I think most modern diff oils have the EP additives. I was speaking with the Penrite oil technician about this a few months back, and she couldn't recommend anything from their range. It was nothing to do with bandsaws, but another gearbox that had bronze in a bearing, but it would be equally applicable here.
I now see Penrite do oils for Classic cars and I think if you were concerned about the oil in the bandsaw gearbox, one of the classic range could be the go.
Penrite Oil - A Better Class Of Oil (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products-categ.php?id_categ=14&id_subcateg=70)
As far as the incompatibility with EP additives, this site gives some very good descriptions and articles on the issues. It's a very good resource for machine lubrication in general in fact, lots of free information!
Monitoring Active Sulfur in EP Gear Oils - And Other Options for Monitoring EP Additive Depletion (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/496/active-sulfur-ep-gear-oil)
The worm wheel in this example is pretty much exactly the design on the bandsaw if I recall correctly. I've only had it apart once and that was to tip out the cat's wee it ships with and throw in some oil.
The Effects of EP Additives on Gearboxes (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28958/ep-additives-effects)
Grahame Collins 2nd July 2014, 11:23 PM I believe that includes the one listed above. They should therefore not be used in gearboxes containing brass or bronze, especially if that metal is in the form of gears.
The fine print on the back of the bottle of Penrite 85W-140 reads among other notations:
* compatible with copper alloy components and protects against corrosion.
In any case I have sent an email to PENRITE to double check that the oil is indeed compatible with the brass worm wheel.I don't want to give anyone a bum steer.
Grahame
Pete F 2nd July 2014, 11:59 PM The fine print on the back of the bottle of Penrite 85W-140 reads among other notations:
* compatible with copper alloy components and protects against corrosion.
In any case I have sent an email to PENRITE to double check that the oil is indeed compatible with the brass worm wheel.I don't want to give anyone a bum steer.
Grahame
It will be interesting to see what they say, Andrea was who I was speaking with. Perhaps the EP additive isn't sulphur based, does it smell like it?
She suggested I need to look for an API GL-1 oil, which is exactly what their oils are from the VVC range, so I don't know why she didn't suggest them, unless maybe they're a new product line?
Grahame Collins 3rd July 2014, 02:47 AM Perhaps the EP additive isn't sulphur based, does it smell like it?
No idea! I don't have a sense of smell.No point in asking my wife as she will say "it smells like oil"
Its an API Gl-5 and says it for differentials including limited slip.
Grahame
Pete F 3rd July 2014, 10:28 AM The sulphur has a very distinctive smell (ie in stinks) and doesn't smell at all like "oil", it does however smell like "gear oil" since they generally use sulphur based EP additives in the gear oils. If it doesn't have that distinctive smell then there's a good chance they're using something else in this particular one, particularly since they specifically say it's compatible with copper.
Anyway, the whole point was to be aware of the problems associated with typical gear oils and the EP additives in relation to brass/bronze in gearboxes. It's not something I was aware of until relatively recently and I wouldn't have thought it a problem, but indeed it can be, so wanted to bring it to the attention of others.
Pete F 3rd July 2014, 11:42 AM I think it's Alan in the office today Grahame, he was helping me on another matter. I'd expect he should reply to you shortly if he hasn't already. I didn't ask him about this situation as you said you had already, but would be grateful for hearing the outcome as the oil you listed is easy to obtain and won't require special ordering.
Grahame Collins 3rd July 2014, 05:54 PM The oil was tracked down as a suitable gearbox lube around the time Xynudu (Rob) posted about his RF 115 saw.. He and I joined the Yahoo bandsaw group where this info came to light.
Mobil Aust had a suitable grade but the only available quantity(200L) was far too great for home use. I believe I found the present product on an Australia oil equivalency table from somewhere.
I purchased the litre bottle only a few months back and it was was fairly cheap (around $16) and easily available through Autobahn. I have yet to change out the oil and maybe put a oil level button fitting on the gearbox.
Grahame
Pete F 3rd July 2014, 08:42 PM Sorry Grahame I didn't understand your post, you mentioned you'd emailed Penrite in regard to the EP additives in this oil. I've been speaking with them a couple of times today so presume they would have answered you too and wonder what they said about the oil you asked about?
Grahame Collins 3rd July 2014, 09:30 PM Just explaining how I came upon this oil early in the year. Nothing back from Penrite save for the email confirmation.
Grahame
Pete F 4th July 2014, 12:03 AM Oh ok, hmm, that's odd, as mentioned I was talking to them today, twice in fact. If you don't hear anything back from them let me know and I'll ask them. I needed to order some of their oil from Repco and the Repco guy said he'd call me back. Naturally he didn't so if that oil is good for bronze components it would possibly be a substitute I could try.
Dingo Dog 4th July 2014, 03:39 PM Ok, thanks gents for all the info, have bought some ISO46 oil for the lathe, used diff oil in the band saw. There is a brass worm cog connecting to a steel worm drive, found no corrosion on the brass one, a few specs of steel laying in the bottom, picked them up with a magnet. Store wise, there is not much to choose from, S/cheap or Repco. Recently, looking for a specific grade of Castrol engine for my bike, had me traversing all over Perth, thought this was going to be another saga like that. Will drop the diff oil out in a month and check for any wear on the cogs.
DD
Grahame Collins 8th July 2014, 07:28 PM Oh ok, hmm, that's odd, as mentioned I was talking to them today, twice in fact. If you don't hear anything back from them let me know and I'll ask them. I needed to order some of their oil from Repco and the Repco guy said he'd call me back. Naturally he didn't so if that oil is good for bronze components it would possibly be a substitute I could try.
I did get a reply from Penrite ( on the 2nd)But the spam thingy sent it to the trash-. Alan from Penrite says apparentlya GL-3 is what I need.
Grahame
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