Ebay or local business

[th62]

Today I went out shopping for a few items, first stop was the fastener shop. After waiting in line for an eternity, without even advancing in the queue, I left in disgust in search of another fastener shop. The next shop was pretty much empty and they actually had what I wanted, a small under $2 item. The salesman informs me they have a minimum order amount so I’d have to buy something else, after racking my brain I couldn’t think of anything else I needed on such short notice, so again left in disgust – ebay me thinks???

Next I stopped at the shop where I bought my bandsaw for some blades - he had ‘one’ on the shelf. I asked if he had anymore, nope, was the answer, they only keep one or two in stock at any time it seems. I bought that one, ordered half a dozen more to pick up next week and asked for the next item on my list: a 5mm bottoming tap. ‘Nope, sorry’ said the salesman ‘but we have this beaut set of three for $52 (plus GST of course)’ - ebay again me thinks???

Next stop, welding electrodes: the next shop has all the electrodes you could possibly want - except the size I ask for (2mm [great for tacking and leaves a small footprint]), so I’d have to order them and pick up next week – ebay again me thinks???

This was pretty much par for the course for everything I was after today and pretty much par for the course on all my excursions for tools and consumables these days.

Next s I sat in the car and searched on ebay - found everything I needed (except bandsaw blades) all available in three days or less, cheaper than buying in store and the price includes postage (but not the stress), is that a no brainer or what???

Next time I hear a shopkeeper complain about people buying online instead of supporting local business, I might just tell him why people prefer to shop online.

[KBs PensNmore]

Unfortunately, I think it's a sign of the times. The cost of carrying stock is just to much for some places, particularly if it's a common item, ie your blades, taps :(. Not being sure when it gets sold. We required a part for the Day Centre bus (a Toyota) that has to come from Japan, WHEN it gets made. The bus is only 8 yrs old!!!!!
Kryn

[simonl]

I had a similar experience. Rang up a bearing place to see if they had a particular size bronze bush in stock. They said "yes" we have 2 in stock. Knowing they had what I wanted, I was happy to drive the 25Km to get the item. I got there and they informed me that they were sorry but they do not have that item in stock. Apparently the computer said they had 2 in stock but a physical stock check revealed none in stock.:(( They were happy to order it in, so I requested that they post it to me. They said "yes" but at a cost of $10 postage. I kindly informed them that $10 was about what I wasted in fuel driving there so how about you absorb the postage since it was your error. They said "no" So, I told them not to worry, I buy it from overseas for half the price and free delivery..... In a time when these type of places really need to be doing it better than anyone else, they made a mistake. Now mistakes can happen and I understand that. They even had an opportunity to put it right by posting for free for a minimal cost and I would have left a happy customer. But no, they sent me away happy for me to purchase overseas. They do not deserve to be in business. Edit: PS I can't believe there are people in business that are clearly that dumb . I'll get of my high horse now. Simon

[th62]

I can remember a time when there was a hardware store on just about every corner and they actually carried stock and replenished it before they sold their last. Hardware stores stocked all sorts of strange looking tools, if you wanted a tool, any tool, all you had to do was ask, except of course items like lathes and mills and associated consumable, nobody could afford them then. Plastic packages that required tin snips or an angle grinder to get to their contents didn't exist then, paper bags sufficed and nails, screws, bolts were bought by the scoop and you took them home in said paper bag. Tools were expensive: Rabone, Starret, Irwin, Crescent, Sidchrome, etc, ruled, there were no Chin Yup or Nip Yup tools to be seen. Life was simple, the average hobbyist relied on basic tools like files and hacksaws to shape their creations, lathes mills, pedestal drills only lived in factories. With the Japanese, Koreans and then C#!ne$e came the tools that everyman could afford and everyman could now afford tools and machinery that previously he could only dream of. With this new age came the large conglomerates like Bunnies and Mitre10 and along with them came the now too popular utterances: 'sorry, sold the last one an hour ago mate'; and, 'sorry we don't sell consumables for our machines - we just sell the machines', and of course 'why won't consumers support local businesses'. Are we better off now - my word we are, how many could afford a lathe back in 1960. Thank you Japan, Korea and dare I say it - C#!n^, all we need now is for businessmen to start, replenishing their stock before selling their last, selling consumables for the machinery they sell, and of course, providing items in packaging that you can actually open without the use of expensive tools.

[Old Croc]

Interesting stories I can mimic every day up here. I am in the market for a Drill Doctor at present and have priced it locally and on eBay. How does a company in Melbourne sell it post free for just over half the price quoted here in Townsville? While I want to support local businesses, this extortion can't be supported. I have taken a printout of the add to the local guys to see if they want to sharpen their pencil, but they come up with all sorts of excuses why they can't compete, so sadly looks like my money leaves town.
Just my $.20 worth,
Rgds,
Crocy.

[cba_melbourne]

Interesting stories I can mimic every day up here. I am in the market for a Drill Doctor at present and have priced it locally and on eBay. How does a company in Melbourne sell it post free for just over half the price quoted here in Townsville? While I want to support local businesses, this extortion can't be supported. I have taken a printout of the add to the local guys to see if they want to sharpen their pencil, but they come up with all sorts of excuses why they can't compete, so sadly looks like my money leaves town.
Just my $.20 worth,
Rgds,
Crocy.

Crocy, by far the cheapest option is to buy the 120V model drill doctor from Amazon USA. Then buy a 120/240 step/down transformer from eBay.

[cba_melbourne]

UK has very low postage rates to Australia. And items I order from the uk, things like tools and fasteners, are at my post office near Melbourne in 5 to 7 days. That is faster than items that I order from Sydney or Brisbane. And believe me or not, if it is lighter items like say 50 M8x20 grub screws or a V belt for the car, the postige from the UK is actually cheaper than from Sydney!!!!

[Old Croc]

Crocy, by far the cheapest option is to buy the 120V model drill doctor from Amazon USA. Then buy a 120/240 step/down transformer from eBay.
Last time I tried to buy an electrical item from Amazon, it blocked me saying they would not export to Australia. Have they changed their rules in the last year or so? This could change my shopping.
Rgds,
Crocy.

[cba_melbourne]

Last time I tried to buy an electrical item from Amazon, it blocked me saying they would not export to Australia. Have they changed their rules in the last year or so? This could change my shopping.
Rgds,
Crocy.

Some sellers on Amazon do post to Au, some do not. You only find out at checkout. You can also tick the box named something like "Amazon global eligible" and it only lists items that post to AU (but it may only work if you are logged in). I bought my Drill Doctor about a year ago, maybe almost 2. It came very quick, if I remember well AU$170 for the DD750 with two extra spare grinding wheels and the postage all included.

[Laurie]

I thought this was a local problem here in Wellington NZ. It seems the same band of retailers with nothing to retail are establishing themselves in your land too. I can understand it in a small town or village but we're talking about shops in fairly large cities, with decent amounts of commercial business and plentiful hobbyists who stand at the counters with money in their hands and are told "sorry, you can't actually have one of those" ! Ebay is a winner. You can buy whatever your heart desires for less than a retailer will sell it you, and get it delivered in about the same amount of time. These places are cutting their own throats and blameing the internet for their problems. Right, getting off my soap box and going to bed. Night all.
Laurie

[simonl]

There was a thread on this a few months back. I bought my DD from U.S. I had to look for a while to find a seller who would ship to Aus for a reasonable price. In the end I found one, delivered for less than 1/2 the price compared to buying here. If it was now, I would just find a seller who offers free shipping within U.S. and just get them to deliver to a forwarding agent like Shipto. Simon

[RayG]

Some sellers on Amazon do post to Au, some do not. You only find out at checkout. You can also tick the box named something like "Amazon global eligible" and it only lists items that post to AU (but it may only work if you are logged in). I bought my Drill Doctor about a year ago, maybe almost 2. It came very quick, if I remember well AU$170 for the DD750 with two extra spare grinding wheels and the postage all included.

Thanks for that tip Chris, handy to know, after searching high and low for something, you find it at the right price and get to checkout only to be told... sorry we don't ship to your location.. :doh:

Shipito can be the only option, and the best solution if that happens is to send it via shipito's Oregon facility, rather than California.. that way you don't pay Californian sales tax.

Ray

[cba_melbourne]

Thanks for that tip Chris, handy to know, after searching high and low for something, you find it at the right price and get to checkout only to be told... sorry we don't ship to your location.. :doh:

Shipito can be the only option, and the best solution if that happens is to send it via shipito's Oregon facility, rather than California.. that way you don't pay Californian sales tax.

Ray

Ray, another thing that I found out with Amazon is, there is also Amazon UK and Amazon Germany and probably other sites too. They all have there own and very different range of sellers and products. Unlike eBay, the sites do not show each others offerings. However, one account will work with all sites when it comes to checkout.

[Grahame Collins]

I am in a similar situation here in Mackay but I would add this. The engineering supply companies have done extremely well over the years but have adopted an negative attitude to the diy buyers.

Word of mouth is very effective and conversations between engineering Diyers could change the bottom line for those willing to accommodate.
There are still those can't or won't adapt to the needs and wants of the small customer.

To those DIYers did not spend enough and a $20sale was not worth their time in writing the invoice and hence the minimum buy signs went up on the front counters of some steel supplier like Interalloy- $100 minimum sale.
I do understand the value of the clerks time and the time of the guy out the back has to be paid, but these guys don't learn- by placing a such a high charge it,s repellant. It says to me to bugger off,we don't want your measly few dollars .

It has had the desired effect , I am not likely to come back.

Trips round the various hardware shops reveal some have empty spaces in the display racks and have been that way for quite.In the big farming and engineering supply shop there are empty racks in the commonly used twist drill racks with weeks in between refilling. I asked and was told it was to do with the ordering. Order at the start of month and wait 3 weeks .It didn't matter much to them that the drill diameter I was seeking was needed right away.
It mattered to me however and consequently the business I have dealt on nearly a weekly basis for 20 years, I could not be bothered going there now, as they will most times, not have what I need.
I suppose there some hidden issues like some businesses being on cash only, no credit.When my wife was working in the trade it was common place as some don't pays their bills promptly.

Much of my future fastener inventory will be standardised and I will order in bulk once or twice a year via online.

Grahame

[th62]

I recently bought four of the same item on aliexpress @ $4 each for a total of $16. In Australia the very same item is priced at around $35 each - in anyone’s language that is an exorbitant mark up. Business owners here in Australia cite overheads such as staffing and shopfront costs as the cause of such high pricing. I wonder if they ever stop to think: the sellers on ebay, aliexpress, alibaba, amazon, etc, also have ‘overheads’: someone has to pack and sort the goods, someone has to package and post the goods, someone has to place the adds, someone has to take the orders and of course the goods have to live somewhere until such time as they are shipped off, not all online businesses are small concerns, some are huge. In many cases the seller is also the manufacturer, so they also have manufacturing overheads such as machinery, factories and workers to manufacture the goods Granted, labour in China, India, Korea and other third world countries is cheaper than in Australia; but, if you can’t keep stock levels up to date, if you want to introduce minimum spends, if you want to argue about warranties, etc, I certainly have no interest in propping up that sort of business. Online, I can order one bolt or one drill bit costing only a few cents. Online sellers are just as happy to attend to the needs of the small buyer as they are to the larger buyer and they are also quite happy to refund or replace. There is one online fastener supplier who provides excellent service; unfortunately, as with a lot of Australian online businesses his selection isn't the best, but I'm happy to support him - he can only improve (hopefully). Australian business owners; need to take notice, they are drawing up their own insolvency papers and speeding up the demise of the Australian business and manufacturing sectors – GMH and Ford are a perfect example of Australian business apathy..

[eskimo]

Last time I tried to buy an electrical item from Amazon, it blocked me saying they would not export to Australia. Have they changed their rules in the last year or so? This could change my shopping.
Rgds,
Crocy.


Some sellers on Amazon do post to Au, some do not. You only find out at checkout. You can also tick the box named something like "Amazon global eligible" and it only lists items that post to AU (but it may only work if you are logged in). I bought my Drill Doctor about a year ago, maybe almost 2. It came very quick, if I remember well AU$170 for the DD750 with two extra spare grinding wheels and the postage all included.

Also depends on what the goods are...some sellers wont ship XYZ but another store might it...that has been my experience anyway...doesnt happen on all occasions tho.

[eskimo]

send it via shipito's Oregon facility, rather than California.. that way you don't pay Californian sales tax.

Ray

Ta ray...I must remember that

[simonl]

after searching high and low for something, you find it at the right price and get to checkout only to be told... sorry we don't ship to your location.. :doh:

Shipito can be the only option, and the best solution if that happens is to send it via shipito's Oregon facility, rather than California.. that way you don't pay Californian sales tax.

Ray

Yea, sometimes you find a great price and go through the painful process of creating an account (another account) just to purchase the item and then you find out right at the end. While not related to this forum, I purchase a lot of hiking equipment from the U.S. because not only can the same items be had for 1/2 the price, they also have items that are just not released here. Shipto has fixed all that. While I originally opted for the basic (free) account which only has address options at Nevada and Austria as I was not sure on my usage or need. It's becoming apparent that I will end up using their services a couple times a month…. I may end up upgrading to virtual mailbox with consolidation options.

Simon

[Jekyll and Hyde]

To those DIYers did not spend enough and a $20sale was not worth their time in writing the invoice and hence the minimum buy signs went up on the front counters of some steel supplier like Interalloy- $100 minimum sale.
I do understand the value of the clerks time and the time of the guy out the back has to be paid, but these guys don't learn- by placing a such a high charge it,s repellant. It says to me to bugger off,we don't want your measly few dollars .


What truly boggles my mind about that one is the complete lack of thought process. The industrial supplies 3 doors down from my old work started in on a $20 minimum order business. Having semi regular occasion to need 3 or 4 bolts of one size or another, this was just ridiculous. So instead of walking down the street, we'd get in the car and drive straight past them 5 blocks over to another industrial supplies without a minimum spend. Turns out the staff were much more friendly and helpful anyway, so we kept going there for that reason as well. I personally bought an almost $500 welding helmet from them, as well as spending well in excess of $100 at a time on various consumables and tools, as did the boss (think he actually bought a $2000 welder there too). And they got that business because they didn't have a minimum spend. Just because I only want $5 worth of something today, doesn't mean I won't need $5k worth of something next week...

I remember wondering around a car yard down near Centre road many years ago with a mate, looking at sort of cars went for what money so he could work out what sort of loan he should take out to buy something decent. Salesman came up, and basically asked did we have money ready to go on the day. When told no, the response was pretty much to get out of his yard. Keeping in mind we hadn't called him over, asked him anything, or consumed any of his time. There was sure as hell no way my mate was going back to that yard when he did have money...

[jatt]

Am glad I dont run a show where I need to keep a lot of stock items. Its expensive having all of those items just sitting on the shelf. You still have to pay for em from suppliers on time.

With many items on the shelves its as simple as entering qty into the PC program that runs the till and it will tell you when you are running low. Stuff like bolts its a bit harder, but one must keep an eye on it. Its part of the job as a retailer.

There is of course no excuse for poor customer servive. As already stated a $5 purchase with good service to back it up, could mean one of several hundred a few weeks later. Can bore the masses for some time with that one. Get a few jobs where customer tells me they didnt like the attitude of another place locally. Thanks guys.

At least entertaining what others wont do has yielded its fair share of jobs. My latest is a dude who runs around looking like he's from 17.. something. His money is as good as anyone elses. "Mate if you want it to look like its from back from 17.. then this is what I can offer." Transaction done.

You can tell when some folk are sounding you out so to speak. Give em good service and they will be back at some stage.

Part of the issue is lazy (and quite possibly disgruntled) staff who get a pay packet regardless.

[Old Croc]

Thanks for that tip Chris, handy to know, after searching high and low for something, you find it at the right price and get to checkout only to be told... sorry we don't ship to your location.. :doh:

Shipito can be the only option, and the best solution if that happens is to send it via shipito's Oregon facility, rather than California.. that way you don't pay Californian sales tax.

Ray
Thanks for that info Ray, did a Google and it is easy to set it up so I may go that way as I believe Enco is now not shipping to Aus as well.


What truly boggles my mind about that one is the complete lack of thought process. The industrial supplies 3 doors down from my old work started in on a $20 minimum order business. Having semi regular occasion to need 3 or 4 bolts of one size or another, this was just ridiculous. So instead of walking down the street, we'd get in the car and drive straight past them 5 blocks over to another industrial supplies without a minimum spend. Turns out the staff were much more friendly and helpful anyway, so we kept going there for that reason as well. I personally bought an almost $500 welding helmet from them, as well as spending well in excess of $100 at a time on various consumables and tools, as did the boss (think he actually bought a $2000 welder there too). And they got that business because they didn't have a minimum spend. Just because I only want $5 worth of something today, doesn't mean I won't need $5k worth of something next week...

I remember wondering around a car yard down near Centre road many years ago with a mate, looking at sort of cars went for what money so he could work out what sort of loan he should take out to buy something decent. Salesman came up, and basically asked did we have money ready to go on the day. When told no, the response was pretty much to get out of his yard. Keeping in mind we hadn't called him over, asked him anything, or consumed any of his time. There was sure as hell no way my mate was going back to that yard when he did have money...
Yep i face this all the time here, so quite easy, support the shop without the $10 minium buy. Last time i went in i asked to see the manager and told him i was bringing all my business to him because he does not have a minium charge. He was surprised I took the trouble to tell him, but it did make an impression.
Rgds,
Crocy.

[simonl]

Well I totally paid out on a bearing company on this thread so I feel it only fair to give credit where credit is due to a local business. I have been getting all my (new) steel supplies from a local steel merchant for about 6 years now. They are a family owned and run business, run by the father and son (I think) and they truly epitomise that of customer service.

If I buy an off cut, they give a generous (sometimes 50% depending on who serves me) discount, if I pay cash, they give me a discount. In fact if I see the "old man" and chew the fat with him about my latest project, he gives me a silly price. He is also a boiler maker and so if ever I have a problem or need advice on welding a type of steel, he is only too happy to spend what seems like half a morning talking about welding techniques, or even give me a practical lesson using their welder. When I do buy a large amount of something, or they charge "full" price, I never begrudge it since they always give me a good price when I buy 100 or 200mm length of 50mm round BMS for a project. The $10 they charge me would hardly cover the stock, the cutting and the person paid to cut it.

If I'm not sure if something is the correct size or if it will be suitable, they let me take it home and pay for it next time I pop in. In fact they are such a good customer service based business i feel obliged to give them a plug.

K & K Steel, Hastings 3915

Cheers,

Simon