face plate work

[mat_au]

i Use a face plate to get my bowls and platters started as like normal people do. so just wondering what kinda screws people use to screw to the face plate?

Im using 50mm screws atm and some of the harder wood i have atm the just break off when i got to unscrew them, so i was thinking something like a hex head screw or something like that.

would love to know what other people use

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Sachys robertson screws. Brilliant stuff. :2tsup:

(They're similar to a hex drive, but with a square mortice.)

[dai sensei]

:whs: Multiple Woodturners Pack (http://www.sachys-robertson.com.au/online-catalogue/packs-and-specials/pack-specials-multiple-woodturners-pack)

[mat_au]

was just looking at that, will buy them and give them ago

thanks

[Pat]

Matt, I third the Sachy's, but I use my Woodfast Screw Chuck for most bowls and platters up to 500mm. I have a 10mm spacer for thinner platters.

It is only the really rough blanks that I now go to a faceplate, as most are cut round at the bandsaw.

[dennisk]

A Canadian invention by the way, amazing to see some guys still using slotted screws and the amount of crappy screws you get with most hardware these days. I grew up with this type of screw and they generally work well. True Robertson screws have a bit of a taper to them, and most of the junk driver bits made these days are square all the way through, so they dont work as they should with impact drivers etc.My 2 sense.

[mat_au]

Matt, I third the Sachy's, but I use my Woodfast Screw Chuck for most bowls and platters up to 500mm. I have a 10mm spacer for thinner platters.

It is only the really rough blanks that I now go to a faceplate, as most are cut round at the bandsaw.

ive never really tried a screw chuck always used a face plate. might have to give that a go too :D

[bowl-basher]

I find that a 60mm Forstner bit the the chuck in expansion mode and a bit of support from the tail stock is the quickest way for the guys that I am working with at Mens shed

[pommyphil]

Yes, great screws. The other woodturners pack they sell is cheaper and I think more useful.

Multiple Woodturners Pack Small Face Plate (http://screwit.businesscatalyst.com/online-catalogue/packs-and-specials/multiple-woodturners-pack-small-face-plate)

I don't know how to shrink the link :- Gosh it's automatic !

[tea lady]

Matt, I third the Sachy's, but I use my Woodfast Screw Chuck for most bowls and platters up to 500mm. I have a 10mm spacer for thinner platters.

It is only the really rough blanks that I now go to a faceplate, as most are cut round at the bandsaw.I've broken off the screw on screw chucks as well. In harder woods you might need to pre drill a little bigger so that not so much of the thread needs to bite. And in really soft woods the screw might strip so you need the back up of screws as well.

I'll put in another thumbs up fort those square drive screws.

On really big gnarly barstewards I've used those roofing hex drive wood screws.

Small green stuff I've just done between centers.

[Pat]

I've broken off the screw on screw chucks as well. In harder woods you might need to pre drill a little bigger so that not so much of the thread needs to bite. And in really soft woods the screw might strip so you need the back up of screws as well.


I've bent the screw, after a catch, now have a spare in the jaw box.

[chuck1]

I attached quality ply wood and fix a coachbolt dead Centre and if needs be I can put extra screws through the ply as the ply is a bigger diameter than faceplate.
With the coachbolt I grind two dints to place extra screws to stop it turning. If it's to long I have ply and craftwood to vary the depth of thread.
Also I replace the coachbolt every 12 month's or so

[mick59wests]

I find that a 60mm Forstner bit the the chuck in expansion mode and a bit of support from the tail stock is the quickest way for the guys that I am working with at Mens shed

Just shows there are still more ways to skin a cat! I'd be wary (as is my case) if the chuck is dovetailed for expansion mode.

cheers

Mick

[Tim the Timber Turner]

I prefer a faceplate, 4 (or more) timber roofing screws and a hex driver in a small rattle gun, pre drilling if required.

This method enables the centre to be moved (should it be required) while rouging down to round.

The blank can also be kicked over a small amount by inserting a small wedge between the faceplate and the blank. This will change the location of the foot a small amount and can be useful when roughing out burls.

I have found that, when mounting burls, the ability to relocate the mounting point and angle to be paramount in getting the best form and sapwood colour in the finished piece.

The initial mounting of the burl is probably the most important variable that has an effect on the finished piece.

A faceplate and screws give me this flexibility.

My 2 cents worth.

Cheers
Tim:)

[NeilS]

I prefer a faceplate, 4 (or more) timber roofing screws and a hex driver in a small rattle gun, pre drilling if required.



+1

[Ticky]

I have done quite a bit of work with Jarrah before I started turning, so when I screw on a face plate to hard timber, I do what I have been doing for years.

I drill the correct size hole for the screw, & I lubricate the screw with a bit of spray oil.

All I use is Pozidriv screws.

Steve

[Mobyturns]

Some quite good responses so far and practical examples of the hazards associated with using screws on face plates and "woodworm screws" in scroll chucks or screw point chucks. Like all mechanical fastening systems each has limits and in repeated use some will eventually fail from metal fatigue. As users it is our responsibility to learn about recommended size & weight limits for each system. We should also discard screws etc "before they fail" which sounds easy enough in theory but in reality most will discard them after they fail. Screws are cheap, doctors bills aren't.

One hazard that turners fail to realize is that many of the hardened screws available on the market are not suitable for use in wood turning as they are too brittle; and that large bowl/platter blanks on woodworm screws used in scroll chucks especially with standard 50mm jaws can cause lots of problems from compression of the timber leading to wobbles/vibration which also fatigues the woodworm screw.

This is a link to some very good tips on bowl turning
http://www.nickcookwoodturner.com/articles-how-not-to-turn-bowl.pdf

[Ticky]

We should also discard screws etc "before they fail" which sounds easy enough in theory but in reality most will discard them after they fail. Screws are cheap, doctors bills aren't.


http://www.nickcookwoodturner.com/articles-how-not-to-turn-bowl.pdf

Screw Prices, like a lot of things, vary quite a lot.

Like most people, I started buying screws from a hardware store like Bunnies or Mitre 10.

Then one day, I was having trouble getting a particular hinge I was after & was told to try a Kitchen Hardware Wholesaler. So I went along & bought a pair of hinges & I wanted a few screws to fit them. Was told they only sell screws by the box, in this case, 1000. So I said ok wondering what I was going to do with the other 992 screws as I reached for my Plastic. The guy apologised & said we have a $20 min on plastic, so I ended up with 10 hinges & 1000 screws for about $22

Since that day, I only by screws by the box. I am down to about 300 of that original box & I have a huge selection of Screws now.
I often find that a box of 1000 is only a couple dollars more than a pack of 50 at the hardware store.

ALSO, My brother & I buy in bulk & share. If one of us needs a size we dont have, we buy a box & give 1/2 to the other.

So from my perspective, Screws are cheap, Use them once & throw them away.

Steve

[Tim the Timber Turner]

I paid $9 for a packet of 50 x 40mm hex head timber screws form a specialised fastener (nut & bolt) supplier.

Much cheaper than your local hardware shop.

Cheers
Tim:)

[Ron Rutter]

I prefer a faceplate, 4 (or more) timber roofing screws and a hex driver in a small rattle gun, pre drilling if required.

This method enables the centre to be moved (should it be required) while rouging down to round.

The blank can also be kicked over a small amount by inserting a small wedge between the faceplate and the blank. This will change the location of the foot a small amount and can be useful when roughing out burls.

I have found that, when mounting burls, the ability to relocate the mounting point and angle to be paramount in getting the best form and sapwood colour in the finished piece.

The initial mounting of the burl is probably the most important variable that has an effect on the finished piece.

A faceplate and screws give me this flexibility.

My 2 cents worth.

Cheers
Tim:)
Agree 100% with this approach. Depending on the wood/ blank, I use #8 or #10 round head Robertson screws 1" to 1 3/4" long & pre-drill harder wood. Nice to be able to adjust the orientation. I always bring up the tail stock as well. Ron.

[jefferson]

One point that I don't think has been mentioned is the number of pre-drilled holes in faceplates.

Most of the 75mm-150mm faceplates (including some expensive ones) only come with 4. More screws means more security, particularly on burls. So get the drill press out and add some more screw holes. Better still, face the large bowl or platter blank off the lathe (I use my woodwizz) and glue a large stable chunk of say 19mm ply on it and away you go.

[NeilS]

One point that I don't think has been mentioned is the number of pre-drilled holes in faceplates.



Have re-drilled holes to accommodate slightly heavier gauge roofing screws.

Also countersank the holes on the face side to allow the wood fibre that pulls up around the screws somewhere to go so the faceplate can pull up flush against the blank; more of an issue with green wood.

[Mobyturns]

While answering another post I was reminded about some issues associated with not pre-drilling holes for face plate screws.

"Lack of Chamfered Holes - After more than thirteen years of turning professionally, I still see lots of faceplates manufactured without chamfers around the screw holes on the bottom side (blank mounting side). Why is this important? When you install your mounting screws into a wood blank, the fibers around the hole tend to lift up slightly as the screw is inserted.
Without a tiny chamfer around the hole on the fp, there is no space for these wood fibers to lift up. The raised fibers around each screw can actually prevent the fp from sitting flush with the surface of the blank in some cases, compromising your mounting." http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/faceplates.html

[NeilS]

"Lack of Chamfered Holes - After more than thirteen years of turning professionally, I still see lots of faceplates manufactured without chamfers around the screw holes on the bottom side (blank mounting side). Why is this important? When you install your mounting screws into a wood blank, the fibers around the hole tend to lift up slightly as the screw is inserted.
Without a tiny chamfer around the hole on the fp, there is no space for these wood fibers to lift up. The raised fibers around each screw can actually prevent the fp from sitting flush with the surface of the blank in some cases, compromising your mounting." http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/faceplates.html

What can I say.... great minds think alike... :U

[chuck1]

Just thought I would show how my faceplates are set up, using a faceplate over a chuck with screw Centre is far safer as the blank has more surface support than the chuck jaws .
there is still the option of friction chucking to turn the inside of the bowl as well doing away with the need of a chuck, but the chuck does make life easier!