New trade tools router vs old Makita (or other)

[kalium]

Hi all,

I've just recently started getting into wood work. The next piece of equipment I'm looking at getting is a router. It's primary use will be in a table (which I still need to make). The main use for it will be doing rebate and box joins in ~20mm hoop pine. I've been using someone else's 1hp 1/4" router, with a 21mm bit. (that bit does everything I need). It seems to burn the wood somewhat, and cuts through the wood a bit slow, but it could just be because the bit is starting to get a bit blunt I think.

Anyway, it's time to get my own, and I would rather keep the cost below ~$200. The 1500W 1/2" one from trade tools has all the features, but I am suspicious of it at the price of ~$130 including a 15 piece router set. The other alternative is to get something like a a 3600BR (I've seen them ~$150 for good condition 2nd hand ones), but it doesn't have things like variable speed (which apparently I want with the size of bits that I am using). I also plan on using it quite a bit, so I would rather something that will last. I'm hoping this doesn't mean I should spend ~$400 on one.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

[The Bleeder]

Kalium,

If you get one without variable speed then this is the upgraded kit form Jaycar. The previous kit work well with my big Makita 3612.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5526

This is the previous kit and is the one I currently use.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5478

[kalium]

Kalium,

If you get one without variable speed then this is the upgraded kit form Jaycar. The previous kit work well with my big Makita 3612.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5526

This is the previous kit and is the one I currently use.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5478


Oh, good tip Steve.

Do you find that you use it for anything else in your workshop? It would be great if it's use spanned a few different things.

[malb]

The issue with large router bits is the tip or circumference speed. The generally accepted wisdom is that bits under 1in or 25mm diameter can safely handle full speed on a router (typically 22,000RPM). The speed is then reduced in a linear fashion until you get to the 3.5in or 90mm diameter panel raising bits which run at around 10-12000RPM. So if you are limited to bits of 21mm diameter or smaller, a fixed speed machine would be OK.

If you are getting burning with the bit in the borrowed router, either the feed rate is too slow, allowing the tips to cut on the first contact with a fibre and then rub numerous times afterwards, there are issues with chip clearance (often related to depth of cut), or the bit is getting dirty or blunt so it does not cut as efficiently as it should. Is the borrowed router slowing down in the cut, or is it able to maintain speed through the cut? Significant slowing generally indicates that the bit needs attention or you need to improve chip extraction.

As a general rule, cheap bit sets are not great value as the carbide is often poor quality and doesn't last anywhere near as long as commercial grade bits do. They may be fine for an occasional job, but not so for regular use. One the other hand, you get 15 bits in a range of sizes and profiles for the price of a single commercial grade bit. It really comes down to horses for courses and what you will be doing.

Re the speed controller kits mentioned above they will work with most portable mains tools that don't have a built in speed control. They won't work with tools using induction motors or other brushless motors. OK with circ saws, jigsaws, corded portable drills, angle grinders, belt sanders etc provided that the tools don't have integrated speed control. No good for most drill presses, table saws, bandsaws, bench grinders, jointers and thicknessers etc but some of these units would not want speed control anyway, or have it incorporated in the drive system.

[The Bleeder]

Oh, good tip Steve.

Do you find that you use it for anything else in your workshop? It would be great if it's use spanned a few different things.

Yes I do. Angle grinder....slows it down so it can be used with a lambswool buffing pad.

Also with one of my mitre saws that needed to be slowed down for cutting platster cornice. There is a thread on it some where.

But basically it can be used for slowing down any universal (brush type) motors upto 2400W.

[Ratbag]

But without "full wave" feedback monitoring aren't these more power than speed controllers?

In other words, don't you get a noticeable loss of power and torque at lower speeds? This would be critical for a router operating at lower speeds with a large diameter bit attached and high torque loading.

[malb]

The original Jaycar kit had reasonable speed regulation, and the newer one has enhanced speed regulation over the earlier model, so should be OK. Personally, I use my big old 5KVA 240V Variac for anything that I need to varispeed at high power levels.

[centron-sg1]

I've been doing some router research my self... You could buy a new router with speed control for slightly more than the price of a speed controller from jaycar. Search for a Maktec mt350. Hope this helps

[david.elliott]

for $149 from Toolmart here in the west.
When I first got it outta the box I figured I had been a bit of a dunce as the ONLY height control is by the turny handle thing an the top. I figured it may take too long to adjust BUT now I have used it a bit the time taken to wind up/down is more than compensated for by the accuracy when you need to adjust it that little tiny bit...However the trade off, unless I'm missing something, (which is always possible) is that it's really not a plunge router any more...
Then I discovered the "micro" fence. What a great thing that is...no more back a bit, forward a bit, back a bit etc...

[Ratbag]

Maybe you're right. I suppose the electronics inside these regulators must constantly monitor current draw or something, adding (slightly) more Amps than required to maintain a certain speed.

But without actual speed monitoring (VCE electronics monitor speed with a magnetic sender unit on the armature shaft) surely the device would have the tool "hunting" around the preselected speed as torque loads varied. You can hear the electronics in speed regulated tools constantly monitoring and regulating the current on quality gear. I have a couple of old planers that have a lower "idle" speed under no-load conditions where the change not so much to speed as to current draw is particularly noticeable when they're loaded up.

[The Bleeder]

The original Jaycar kit had reasonable speed regulation, and the newer one has enhanced speed regulation over the earlier model, so should be OK. Personally, I use my big old 5KVA 240V Variac for anything that I need to varispeed at high power levels.


You lucky bugger.....:~

The really old Jaycar kit was a good one. All though it was a bugger to build. Still got a couple of the circuit board but can't get one of the parts anymore.

The one released a couple of years ago was not the best. It lacked the control down at the lower speeds.

It's successor was quite reasonable at the lower speeds but still had cogging problems. It also had to have a bypass switch to allow the tool to go at full RPM.

The successor to that kit was better. It's back EMF sensing circuit was really good at maintaing torque and speed down on the lower revs.

The new kit I have not got yet but will soon and I post a report on that one.

Check this thread as we did have some fun building and testing the kits.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=90929


and for more entainment yoy can peruse this thread http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=75255

[wolften]

...all you need is a Triton (http://www.carbatec.com.au/triton-2400w-32hp-dual-mode-precision-router_c20847)
Made for under table routing, has all the goodies and trouble free, so far:D

[Treecycle]

I agree with Wolften, the Triton is ideal for table mounting. I have the smaller one and it is permanently mounted in the table. Raising and lowering the unit is very simple and quick with the rack & pinion drive from the side handle. It has micro adjustment once you get it close to the height you want, and variable speed.
For the type of work I do, I do not need the bigger unit, but for the price difference now, if I was buying again I would probably go for the bigger unit just in case I should need it one day. Providing they have fixed the speed control problems of earlier models, it would be my first choice.

[kalium]

Well, I found an old Makita 3600BR for sale. It had apparently only been used a handful of times, and it does look in pretty good nick.
After doing a bit of research it seems like they should go forever, and I figured $150 was a fair price.