Torpedos in Split - Any Interest?

[Anorak Bob]

A couple of days ago I visited the Croatian Maritime Museum in Split. Contained within the museum is a collection of torpedos dating back to the year of their invention by Giovanni Biagio Luppis and Robert Whitehead in 1866*. Several of the torpedos are unique prototypes.

This thread is not about the destructive role of the weapon, but about the design, form and workmanship.

I took a number of photographs. Here's one of 1950's version. I can post more if there is interest.

BT

* Luppis' involvement in the design of a workable torpedo is hazy. More later if.....

[Michael G]

Yes, photos of showing the development of them might be interesting.

Michael

[Marc]

i doubt you can ever separate the industrial design of a torpedo from it's only purpose.

[simonl]

While I would suggest that most people would prefer peace to war, I feel that there is room for the appreciation of the technology and design. I don't see it's any different to visiting an air show and enjoying the F111, super hornets, P51 Mustang, sabre jet, meteor etc. etc.

So many everyday (peacetime) inventions are born from necessity during war over the years. Please post more.

Cheers,

Simon

[.RC.]

I have read a bit about various WW2 launched weapons on wikipedia..

It amazed me how much expensive technology is put inside them to make them complete their task... They are not just a dumb tube full of explosives, but the warhead is the dumbest part of them.. the rest of it can be quite complicated with gyroscopes and batteries and servo motors and proximity detectors...

[Oldneweng]

Engineering is engineering, regardless of the end purpose. I am interested Bob.

I have read a story (fiction) about using torpedoes for drug smuggling. That is another use for them, LOL

Dean

[Anorak Bob]

A bit more about Giovanni Luppis here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Luppis

When I visited the museum I was fortunate to be accompanied to the torpedo exhibit by an enthusiastic young curator. ( She had to turn the lights on, their budget is limited ! ).


She explained that there was rivalry over custodianship of the torpedos between the Split museum and the Maritime Museum in Rijeka, Croatia, the later city being where the torpedoes were manufactured. I didn't find out why they were in Split but after viewing the Rijeka museum exhibition online, I am grateful they were.


I'm using Internet Explorer on a chintzy little laptop which for some reason prevents the insertion of photos.

Here's a start. The tail section is from 1868, the warhead, 1866. Whether a '66 propulsion unit exists, who knows?

[Anorak Bob]

In 1875 the idea of twin non coaxial propellers was tried and abandoned. The sectioned '87 torpedo reveals a three cylinder compressed air driven engine made predominantly from bronze. Later engines incorporated heaters to increase air pressure and to also produce steam.

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Bob, any idea on the purpose of the device on the ground in front of the 66/68 torpedo? From the little I can make out, it looks as interesting as the torpedoes themselves...

[Anorak Bob]

Bob, any idea on the purpose of the device on the ground in front of the 66/68 torpedo? From the little I can make out, it looks as interesting as the torpedoes themselves...

J and H,

To the left is a slant twin cylinder engine. Here is some information from the Muzej Rijeka -

Slanted 2-Cylinder Engines

Important progress in the power and speed of the engine happened in 1909 when Whitehead's factory, instead of producing engines with cylinders vertical to the torpedo axis started producing a horizontal slightly slanted engine with two bigger cylinders with greater volume and power. The so-called slanted 2-cylinder engine got its final shape in the 1920s and kept it until the end of production in Rijeka, in 1960s.
Before the WWI a heater was added to the engine – it heated the compressed air, increasing its volume and it produced steam which also increased the volume of the air entering the cylinders and affected the speed and reach of the torpedo.

To the right is a radial triple cylinder engine like that installed in the sectioned torpedo. More from the Rijeka Museum -

Radial Power Engines

First engine Whitehead used for torpedo was a little steam engine with oscillating cylinders produced in his factory. But this engine could not achieve the desired speed. In 1870s he used Brotherhood’s 3-cylinder radial engine which he gradually improved. The factory later used 4-cylindre engine of the same type, but in the years before WWI they could not fulfil the demand for faster torpedoes with more explosive.

Bob.

[Jekyll and Hyde]

That is fantastic! You definitely get photos of the most interesting things about!

Cheers, Ben.

[tinkera]

Thanks for the great posts.
tinkera

[Anorak Bob]

....................

Here's a start. The tail section is from 1868, the warhead, 1866. Whether a '66 propulsion unit exists, who knows?


Had I looked closer at my photos I would have noticed that there is an 1866 propulsion unit in the collection. All but 2 of the torpedos have small date plaques affixed. Here's the '66. Not a lot of difference from the '68 version but it does show that the latter is missing a few parts.

[Anorak Bob]

1870, 1887, 1890, 1897 and 1898.

ps. I'm battling to upload a few more photos of the '98 and an undated model. Maybe later...

BT

[Hunch]

Funny, a mate is currently doing work with torpedoes over in WA.

[nadroj]

An ex-military disposal store once shut down in Leichhardt, Sydney.
They put a pile of junk out on the verge - mostly old boxes and unidentifiable old electrical/electronic gadgetry.
Amongst it were two things that I couldn't resist helping myself to. One was a lathe catch tray, the other a nicely made aluminium alloy propellor. I later found out the lathe part was for a Hercus, and now catches swarf on my 9A. The prop I showed to the young bloke next door, who was doing his apprenticeship at the then still functioning Cockatoo Island shipyard. He took it to work, and came back with the information it was from a British torpedo.
The things some people throw out!

Jordan

[Anorak Bob]

Hello Jordan,

Any chance of a photo or two of the catcher? If it fits I use an old baking tray perched on the ways under the chuck. Could stand some improvement.

Bob.

[Willy Nelson]

In 1875 the idea of twin non coaxial propellers was tried and abandoned. The sectioned '87 torpedo reveals a three cylinder compressed air driven engine made predominantly from bronze. Later engines incorporated heaters to increase air pressure and to also produce steam.


Sorry mate
Contra rotating propellers are still in, they are used on the old Mk46, the new Mk 54 and also the new(ish) Mk 48 mod 7. They prevent the torque of a very powerful engine twisting the torpedo.
Willy

Torpedo Engineer

[Willy Nelson]

Funny, a mate is currently doing work with torpedoes over in WA.

May I ask who it is?
Willy

[Stustoys]

Contra rotating propellers are still in,
I think you missed the "non coaxial" part.

Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

Sorry mate
Contra rotating propellers are still in, they are used on the old Mk46, the new Mk 54 and also the new(ish) Mk 48 mod 7. They prevent the torque of a very powerful engine twisting the torpedo.
Willy

Torpedo Engineer

Willy,

I know FA about torpedos. The majority of the torpedos in exhibit had, I thought, contra rotating props. It was the non coaxial version below that had counter rotating propellers.

Bob.


http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=325147&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1410635472 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=325147&d=1410635472)

[Hunch]

May I ask who it is?
Willy

I suspect you wouldn't know given you actually work with the torpedos. They've been doing sub-contract work for some sort of upgrade at the facility over there for a while - for the last month or so, seems they fly over early in the week and return on Fridays.

I've said he should buy his sparky a ten gallon hat and park him on one of the orange excercise torpedos a la Dr Strangelove.....rather than send me pics of him passed out on his bed in hi-vis gear, after 1 beer!!

[nadroj]

Hello Jordan,

Any chance of a photo or two of the catcher? If it fits I use an old baking tray perched on the ways under the chuck. Could stand some improvement.

Bob.

This one isn't mine, but it's identical. Well actually, I had to make the bend in front of the gearbox, as mine didn't have that - must have been for an A or B model.
If you want dimensions I'll supply those.

Jordan

[Karl Robbers]

It really is amazing and quite sad in a way, the engineering that goes into a device with a working life measured in minutes or even seconds. If you consider torpedos, the V2 rocket, proximity fuses in anti aircraft munitions, various missiles etc, so much fine engineering and workmanship destined to be blown to smithereens.

[eskimo]

I took a number of photographs. Here's one of 1950's version. I can post more if there is interest.

.

Thanks Bob...really marvelous stuff

wonder if one is allowed to own a dud one for display?...would love to get my hands on one if so

[wheelinround]

Thanks Bob just spotted this.

During the 70's 80's I knew a chap who was working at Sydney West Head designing torpedo & building them and at the testing range he used to have some amazing tails of fail's :o

Must ask son's FiL what he knows of the museum being Croatian.