Darkside questions - advise required

[routermaniac]

G'day all, I'm finally off night duty and slightly more awake!

So off I went to the shed to try cutting some dovetails for the second time ever...

Apart from the usual issues with marking, sawing, etc I am having big issues with getting nice and clean sockets.

It seems that a couple of skew chisels would be ideal for cleaning the bottom of the sockets. I have made some in the past for other reasons but seem to have misplaced them.

What is the consensus for recommended width of chisel for this purpose and what angle should the skew be ground at?

PS I have done a search and have read Dereks excellent post on dovetail aids :)

[Gumby]

I thought a routermaniac would be using a Gifkins............ :D :D :D :D

:rolleyes:

[keith53]

I agree why don't you just get a Gifkins? After that, all will be OK...:cool:

[routermaniac]

damn it Gumby dont need much encouragement to give up :confused: :)

A Gifkins would be good for later, now I would like to teach myself how to do this the old fashioned way :rolleyes:

[Gumby]

Temptation is good.......... I sold my soul to the electron gods long ago :D :D :D

[Just George]

If you want to do dovetails or many other joints try looking at http://www.anglemag.com/about.html this can assist in cutting out your dovetails and pins. Other wise look at http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=15320 and check out Michaels new toy. I'm not sure why you are using a "Skew Chisel" as these are used for turning according to the Timbecon website. A good straight chisel would do just fine for cleaning out your pins and dovetails. I think buying a Gifkins or a Stots Jig would be good for you, the Stots apparently has variable spacings. I have a Gifkins Jig and plan on making a new template by copying the template leaving out alternate pins/dovetails. This is my plan over the next few weeks.

From one dovetailer to another - Happy Dovetailing,
Woody

[zenwood]

What is the consensus for recommended width of chisel for this purpose and what angle should the skew be ground at?
anything narrower than the narrowest socket that you're likely to do.

The angle would be the same as you would use for the tails, traditionally 1:6 (softwood) or 1:8 (hardwood). I believe left- and right-handed versions are required.

I also understand that a marking knife, or something similar, could be used to get right into the sockets of half-blind dovetails (L & R handed versions usually not needed).

[Just George]

Oops, in case you don't know here is Rogers website http://www.gifkins.com.au/

Woody

[Arron]

The angle on my Hirsch skew chisels are 60 degrees. The width is 12mm. I'm pretty happy with both angle and width.

Arron

[routermaniac]

Thanks for the responses.

Arron, 12mm and 60 degrees sounds about right, I must admit that I thought about using the angle for 6:1 but that would be one funny looking chisel and also extremely difficult to use.

PS woodworker, thank you for your suggestions, the skew I was referring to is different from the turning skew in that it is bevelled on one side. Because of the skew it allows one to get into those tight spots when doing half blind dovetails by hand.

As far as I am aware (and Derek please correct me here if I am wrong) using skew chisels to clean up dovetails has been around for a long time.

[derekcohen]

Routermaniac

In my opinion (and Rob - Wood Borer - can comment), the singlemost important element in hand cutting dovetails is to cut the tails first (for reasons that will follow) and to cut them straight. If the tails are straight, then using them as a template for and cutting the pins is pretty straight forward.

Why cut the tails first? Because ... here's my tip:

1) Mark all the boards with the baselines using your cutting gauge.

2) Now gang these together in your vise, and mark out the tails you plan to cut across the ganged stack. The more boards, the better.

3) It is easier to cut accurately by cutting these all of these at once, than to cut one at a time. (And that is why you cut the tails first).

4) Even if you only have a single board to cut, add a few to this to increase the width of the cut. You can reduce the number of boards as you gain confidence in cutting straight.

An added benefit is that this speeds up the cutting if you have several drawers to make.

See the pictures below.

With regard chisels, I do find skewed chisels very handy to clean up corners (after the waste has been pared out). I bought a set of 1/2" Crown skew chisels a few years ago (but I would now make my own). I also have a copy of Rob Cosman's skew chisel that I made (picture below) that is very helpful for cleaning up half blind dovetails.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Different]

Derek is 100% Right on this I do exactly as he says but for the fact I dont own any small skew chisels I use a marking knife to get to the socket corners.

Ross

[AlexS]

I've modified a couple of chisels to help when doing dovetails. First, I've ground a 12mm chisel down to about half its original thickness, to get into the thin sockets for the pins. I also made a mini-chisel about 1mm wide from an old triangular file. It has to be tempered in an oven before grinding search for tempering for more details.

[IanW]

You can make skews for cleaning corners out of any old chisels, bevelled or otherwise; no bevel is needed for the points to get where you want them to reach. Straight chisels are probably easier to grind.
Of the two sets I've got, the 1/4" pair get by far the most use for regular cabinet work, while the Lee Valley 1/2" pair are handy for thumping big d'tails on bench timbers, etc.
The angles aren't all that critical, about 60* is probably preferrable to 45*, as the point gets a bit long and fragile if you put too much angle on it.

Derek's 'fishtail' regrind is a good idea, the one tool can reach either corner - why didn't I think of that before! :confused: .
I suppose the skews have a whole lot of uses apart from cleaning d'tail sockets.
When doing blind d'tails, I always get out both chisels for the job, but confess that I rarely care which one I pick up - you just flip it over to cut the opposite corner. There are only a few fibres in the corner that need snipping off, after all - the rest are already taken care of with the regular bevels you are using for the main paring activity.

Keep at it Routermaniac - it takes a little while to become slick at cutting dovetails, but once it clicks, you'll be surprised how easy it is to make water-tight joins repeatedly. I reckon cutting really good M&T joints is much harder - certainly, you can disguise a sloppy fit easier, but you and the glue know when they aren't a good fit, and the glue eventually divulges the secret! :mad:
(The chisel on the right is a 1/4" bent for cleaning the bottoms and corners of mortises).

Cheers,

[OtakiriLad]

One of the best references I found was Tage Frid's book on woodwork. I discovered I was chiselling the waste from the wrong direction and once I changed that the joints improved out of sight. Got the book out of the local library and have borrowed it so often since I'm starting to get ewven stranger looks than usual:o

Dave

[Auld Bassoon]

I agree why don't you just get a Gifkins? After that, all will be OK...:cool:Or even better a WoodRat (see http://woodrat.com/) I have one and, once you get over the learning curve, which is admittedly a bit steeper that I originally hoped might be the case, it's great for cutting and repeating a whole pot pourri of joints.

Cheers!
Steve B