Another which jointer thread

[Pearo]

I have been reading and researching jointers and have compiled a list. I am chasing a jointer that will be suitable for aussie hardwoods. I typically using timber up to about 2000mm length but occasionally do something a little longer.

After much reading, most people seem to suggest the spiral head cutters as a better way to go, so I am tending to lean toward them. The laguna machines do look good. Is it worth even considering the parallelogram jointer for the $1000 odd? Looking at some reviews on the US sites seems to suggest these machines become problematic after a while with alignment issues.

Anyway, I welcome any tips or pointers, and maybe suggestions of machines I have over looked. I will take a day next week maybe and go inspect them all in real life. At this stage I am leaning toward either the Carbatec CTJ-350X or the Laguna 8" Wedgeband machine. The Laguna has the edge given the larger motor and cutter head.


<tbody>
Brand
Model
Bed Length
Motor
Cutter
Weight
Price


HAFCO
P-200H
1785
2HP
4 blade
184kg
1089


LEDACRAFT
MB-203
1943
1.5HP
3 blade
???
1276


CARBATEC
CTJ-350
1950
1.5HP
3 blade
230kg
1299


JET
JJ8CS
1690
2HP
not specified
189kg
1599


LEDACRAFT
MB-203S
1943
1.5HP
not specified
???
1694


CARBATEC
CTJ-350X
1950
1.5HP
40 cutter spiral
230kg
1999


LAGUNA
8" Wedgebed
1803
2HP
54 cutter spiral
231kg
2250


LAGUNA
8" Parellelogram
2108
3HP
54 cutter spiral
248kg
3190

</tbody>

[Pearo]

No ones got any opinion on the parallelogram jointer v the standard one?

[DoctorBobski]

I don't have any comment on DT versus parrellelogram as I have only used a DT. Parrallelogram are supposed to be easier to adjust especially if you frequently change depth of cut. I'm assuming you already have a planer to go with the jointer. If not you might want to consider a minimax or hammer combo. In my shop I have a 6 inch DT jointer and 15 inch planer (both upgraded to HH which you should definitely get) and have been seriously considering selling them off to get a combo to save on space. The downside is I lose a little time in converting the machine from one mode to another. As I'm not in a production environment I don't think this will be a problem. Just food for thought.

[Pearo]

I don't have any comment on DT versus parrellelogram as I have only used a DT. Parrallelogram are supposed to be easier to adjust especially if you frequently change depth of cut. I'm assuming you already have a planer to go with the jointer. If not you might want to consider a minimax or hammer combo. In my shop I have a 6 inch DT jointer and 15 inch planer (both upgraded to HH which you should definitely get) and have been seriously considering selling them off to get a combo to save on space. The downside is I lose a little time in converting the machine from one mode to another. As I'm not in a production environment I don't think this will be a problem. Just food for thought.

Got a 15 inch thicknesser here already which I am looking to convert to helical. I forgot about hammer, might go take a look at what they have to offer.

[Austin_Turner]

I forgot about hammer, might go take a look at what they have to offer.

A visit to felder is a dangerous thing...but I'd second the combo, wide jointers are great, I wouldn't go less than 260mm, 310 would be nice though. If the hammer is a bit much, check the jet 310HH.

[pjt]

I have the CT long bed 300 wide jointer with the parralelogram table movement system and I've had no issues with it other than when I first set it up in the shop, the tables where out but that could have been me as I dropped it on it's side when I was moving it into position:doh: I found the adjustment system to work quite nicely, (as long as you take BOTH grub screws out)



Pete

[Pearo]

Just thought I would bump this thread now my shed has been approved by council.

At this stage, I am leaning toward the dearest laguna offering, the parallelogram jointer, but the price is scaring me a little. Can anyone comment on the life of the spiral head cutter inserts when planing aussie hardwoods?

I have looked at hammer on the web, and they have a 4hp offering that looks nice too, but I have no price on that yet. Probably wont get a chance to get out and look at the hammer stuff till mid Feb.

[pjt]

The carbide inserts last way longer than HSS or the 18% blades, yrs ago I machined about 2000lm of dry iron bark boards on one set of edges, whereas I could do about 100lm on the HSS blades before they gave up, I still have the same set of cutters in the thicky, the edges aren't sharp but will still do a fair job of hardwood but the softwoods come out a bit furry.



Pete

[Ticky]

Pearo,

I swear by Leda machinery, & I have quite a bit of it, but that said, I would'nt buy any of the machines on your research list.

There are often old to very old Jointers on Gumtree & ebay, & I would & did buy an old 1/2 to 1 ton heavy cast jointer over a new one any day.

Most of these bigass jointers are 3phase & often go for under $500, because not a lot of people have 3phase these days, so they have little value. There are new 3 & 5hp single phase motors on ebay for very reasonable prices, just a couple hundred bucks.

So now your looking at a 300mm or greater machine with a 3hp or greater motor that will plane Jarrah all day, for under $1000.
That should leave a few bob in the kitty for the Spiral Head Cutter.

As for the life of the cutters, they are Tungsten as opposed to High Speed Steel, and you get 4 blades on every cutter. Also, if you accidentally hit a nail with a set of straight blades, it's resharpen time and at say $30/ blade, not much change out of $100.

Same nail with a spiral blade, say it chips 3 cutters, shift 1 cutter to the right, leave the next cutter where it is & move the 3rd cutter to the left & you dont even have to rotate them, just keep using them with the chipped cutter now UN-Aligned, & rotate all of the cutters when they get blunt.

I would suggest, the expected life span from a spiral cutter set could be easily as high as 10 times that of High Speed Steel, possibly more.

Steve

[tgbrooks]

Just thought I would bump this thread now my shed has been approved by council.

At this stage, I am leaning toward the dearest laguna offering, the parallelogram jointer, but the price is scaring me a little. Can anyone comment on the life of the spiral head cutter inserts when planing aussie hardwoods?

I have looked at hammer on the web, and they have a 4hp offering that looks nice too, but I have no price on that yet. Probably wont get a chance to get out and look at the hammer stuff till mid Feb.


Pearo,

The Woodworking club I am a member of has a Powermatic 20" wide thicknesser with the Shellix spiral cutter head (138 cutters). We have had it for about 2 years and we are about to rotate the cutters to the third edge. The machine gets used (and abused) every day with a variety of timber, most of it hardwood - we easily manage to fill one 200 litre bag with shavings at least every 5 days or so.. Even after a year of daily used it still produces a good finish, but we do notice that the noise level is higher towards the year end. Also the machine labours more with dull cutters. Previously we had a 15" generic thicknesser with 3 straight knives that needed changing at least monthly, but because it was such a pain to align the cutters it was often every 3 months or so - and with dull blades the finish was rubbish and the noise was incredible. So as a club with 90 members (about 30 very active) we expect to get 4 years uses out of the cutters. An individual hobby user could expect many years use - an just as well - . at about $7 per cutter it will cost about $1000 to replace all cutters.


Trevor

[pjt]

Like Ticky said, I also reckon x10 times longer would be a fair thing.




Pete

[clear out]

I agree with the idea of an older industrial machine but would retrofit a new cutterhead to a 12 to 16 inch ide machine.
You can also use a VDF if you don't have 3 phase on.
You would be looking at brands like Barker or Wolfenden (Oz made).
Wadkin, Robinson, SCM, Danckaert, White etc.
Lurk on the antique tools section here or on the Canadian Woodworking Forum (Vintage machinery)
I may have an SCM 500 under and over available if your near Sydney.
H.

Sorry I misread your price point.
Still would look at old stuff but maybe a 10 inch Woodfast.
The local MS picked up a 16 inch Wadkin a few years back x SRA workshop Goulburn for $1K.
It has skewed cutters that handle hardwood ok.

[Ticky]

This is my $400 12" Wadkin

Picked this up cheap (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=126233)
A lot of work but not much money. I replaced most of the bolts with new ones, but the bearings were fine & the Blades sharpened up

ok. I would love a Helix set for it buy it is out of my price range.

Steve

[Yanis]

I have been reading and researching jointers and have compiled a list. I am chasing a jointer that will be suitable for aussie hardwoods. I typically using timber up to about 2000mm length but occasionally do something a little longer.

... At this stage I am leaning toward either the Carbatec CTJ-350X or the Laguna 8" Wedgeband machine. The Laguna has the edge given the larger motor and cutter head.


Did you end up buying the jointer? I am looking at the CJT-350X myself.

[Pearo]

Did you end up buying the jointer? I am looking at the CJT-350X myself.

Not yet, buts its on the cards very soon. I put the last coat of paint down on the new shed floor today, so I can start putting all my machines in very soon. I am still leaning toward the CJT-350X at this point. When I get a chance, I will go take a good look at both the carbatec and laguna offerings.

[Yanis]

I have been looking at the Hafco, it is marginally cheaper than the Carbatec spiral head and the cutter has angled blades and a deeper throat, which I believe gives you a better cut since it is slicing rather than shearing. Also more powerful motor, but the bed is 165 mm shorter. According to Carbatech theirs is a parallelogram, which the Hafco is not . The Laguna looks like a work of art but it may be above my pay scale I'm afraid. Also no sign of freight charges on their site. Probably another $200 or so.

At this stage a toss up between the Hafco and Carbatach for me.

[Pearo]

I have been looking at the Hafco, it is marginally cheaper than the Carbatec spiral head and the cutter has angled blades and a deeper throat, which I believe gives you a better cut since it is slicing rather than shearing. Also more powerful motor, but the bed is 165 mm shorter. According to Carbatech theirs is a parallelogram, which the Hafco is not . The Laguna looks like a work of art but it may be above my pay scale I'm afraid. Also no sign of freight charges on their site. Probably another $200 or so.

At this stage a toss up between the Hafco and Carbatach for me.

Everything is on hold for me again due to work. Off to the US for a month then looks like I will be working in Sydney for some time. If its not one thing keeping me from setting up a mancave (ie neighbours) its another!!! Keep me posted on your findings.

[Yanis]

Apparently the Hafco spiral head is a new offering as an add on option, http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W762A#tabs and you have to fit it yourself, but it looks like a vary nice head with angled cutters and a deep kerf. You do need to buy a couple of bearings but they look pretty standard, maybe $40 for the two.

I took a trip out to a local Hafco supplier after work a couple of nights ago and got some prices. For local pickup it is $1899 which is in the ball park of the Carbatech which is makes no diff $2000. Once you factor in the bearings they are pretty much the same.

So it comes down to better spiral head and more power on the Hafco vs the parallelogram on the Carbatech. From what I heard about the parallelogram it keeps its settings longer and is easier to set up. I will be using some very heavy jarrah slabs so that extra 1/2 HP would really come in handy. Also the better cutter head may make a significant difference. At this stage I am leaning heavily towards the Hafco.

[aarggh]

Has anyone bought the Laguna 8" Wedge Bed HH Jointer and can comment on how they found it in use?

[Pearo]

Has anyone bought the Laguna 8" Wedge Bed HH Jointer and can comment on how they found it in use?

I am interested too. Shed gets final approval next thursday so hopefully I can start moving all my machinery in. The 2 things I want to purchase are a new jointer and bandsaw.

[aarggh]

Th Laguna looks like it might be a great piece of kit, but the complete lack of any reviews or info on them anywhere baffle me, surely people must be buying them? I even logged onto Laguna's youtube channel and found a zillion videos of the same model saws, cnc machines, etc, but not a single video of any of their jointers, that does worry me somewhat, especially when they're usually more expensive than many other options.

Woodworking Warehouse has the Laguna 8" with the ShearTec head for $2800, and it is tempting, but I haven't decided if I want to go the combination route or the really good quality jointer yet. No reviews make it very hard to decide.

[Chris Parks]

Got a 15 inch thicknesser here already which I am looking to convert to helical. I forgot about hammer, might go take a look at what they have to offer.

Check out Minimax at the same time, they are both equal in quality and the MM as a general rule usually costs less of the folding stuff. When I was buying my combination machine I found making the decision between the two very hard to make.

[aarggh]

Check out Minimax at the same time, they are both equal in quality and the MM as a general rule usually costs less of the folding stuff. When I was buying my combination machine I found making the decision between the two very hard to make.

I've heard the Minimax's are really great machines, but ouch, the price! Almost $4k for the basic version, or $5500 for the better one, both with straight knives.

I've set a roughly $3k limit on either a good combination planer/thicknesser such as the Woodman 310 or the Carbatec AW106TPZ, or a really exceptional spiral head jointer along the lines of the Laguna 8" with the ShearTec head, along with a cheap T-13S thicknesser from Hare and Forbes.

I'm having a look at a Woodman PT-310 jointer/thicknesser combo that looks really nice, and the Laguna next week or so, but it's just a quandary trying to buy once, buy well, and not end up with a potential lemon. I actually left feedback on Laguna's site that as a customer I'm blown away by the multitude of videos on the same machines, but not a single video of any of their jointer range, as I'm kinda leaning towards the large jointer being an invaluable tool for the workshop. Possibly far more so than the thicknesser, so I don't want to buy something to make do, like a short table, and then regret it at leisure.

[aarggh]

I am interested too. Shed gets final approval next thursday so hopefully I can start moving all my machinery in. The 2 things I want to purchase are a new jointer and bandsaw.

What size and model jointers are you looking at?

And out of curiosity, what are your jointer requirements and uses?

I know bigger is always meant to be better for jointers, and while I'm sort of leaning towards the Laguna 8" being at first glance a what appears to be a quality machine (?) of good weight, and lower power requirements, I am concerned as I mainly deal with shorter stock (around 900mm - 1800mm) if I'll get more than reasonable use out of the extra long table myself compared to buying a combo with the shorter tables. I think for myself I'll definitely find an 8" capacity far more useful for me than a 6" so the $1k Jets, etc, are out I think.

[Pearo]

What size and model jointers are you looking at?

And out of curiosity, what are your jointer requirements and uses?

I know bigger is always meant to be better for jointers, and while I'm sort of leaning towards the Laguna 8" being at first glance a what appears to be a quality machine (?) of good weight, and lower power requirements, I am concerned as I mainly deal with shorter stock (around 900mm - 1800mm) if I'll get more than reasonable use out of the extra long table myself compared to buying a combo with the shorter tables. I think for myself I'll definitely find an 8" capacity far more useful for me than a 6" so the $1k Jets, etc, are out I think.

I leaning toward the big Laguna 8" Parallelogram. The motor is the selling point for me. My main use is for recycled qld hardwoods. I just have not been able to find many reviews on it.

[aarggh]

I had a look at a couple of 8" jointers this week, wow, they are huge! I mean you know that they're 2m long and all, but it's not till you stand next to them that you realise just how big they are. It really made me rethink what I'm wanting, as I don't really have the room to comfortably fit one without it being in the way occasionally. So as I mainly do shorter stuff, I think I'll aim for a Jet JPT-260 as first choice, or a Carbatec AW106PTZ as a second choice possibly, and when I can clear some of the crap I've built up over the years, then I might get a longer bed jointer. Maybe.

If I had the room, the Laguna Parallelogram would also be the first one on my list.

[Pearo]

Just thought I would update, the Laguna 8" Parallelogram jointer is now $4000. Carbatec has the Powermatic 8" Helical Head Jointer for $3900, which is a new contender. Still leaning to the Laguna machine at this point, but they have none in stock in Brisbane, so no look/see possible. The Laguna has a 3hp motor compared to the 2HP on the Powermatic. Both have 54 knife spiral head cutter.

I was hoping I could score a deal by buying both a laguna jointer and bandsaw, but ended up buying the Hammer bandsaw. So no bargaining power now.

Would be interested in hearing reports on the Powermatic jointer if anyone has any knowledge on them.

[Yanis]

With the help of the little woman I have picked up the Carbatech CTJ-350X second hand for $1,300 with a few accessories. It looks like it is in good condition but I don't pick it up for a couple of weeks. I am really excited and have a lot of work backed up in the shed waiting for it.

I also blew out the belt in my Dewalt thiknesser. But I replaced it with one I bought from the US on eBay. I also have a spare. It was surprisingly easy to replace.

I also fixed by Lathe which had some trashed pulleys. Word of advice - if you have one of those cheapish Chinese lathes with the adjustable alloy pulleys make sure you keep the shafts lubricated otherwise you will melt and distort the pulleys. Lesson learnt.

John

[Yanis]

I have been reading and researching jointers and have compiled a list. I am chasing a jointer that will be suitable for aussie hardwoods. I typically using timber up to about 2000mm length but occasionally do something a little longer.

After much reading, most people seem to suggest the spiral head cutters as a better way to go, so I am tending to lean toward them. The laguna machines do look good. Is it worth even considering the parallelogram jointer for the $1000 odd? Looking at some reviews on the US sites seems to suggest these machines become problematic after a while with alignment issues.

Anyway, I welcome any tips or pointers, and maybe suggestions of machines I have over looked. I will take a day next week maybe and go inspect them all in real life. At this stage I am leaning toward either the Carbatec CTJ-350X or the Laguna 8" Wedgeband machine. The Laguna has the edge given the larger motor and cutter head.


<tbody>
Brand
Model
Bed Length
Motor
Cutter
Weight
Price


HAFCO
P-200H
1785
2HP
4 blade
184kg
1089


LEDACRAFT
MB-203
1943
1.5HP
3 blade
???
1276


CARBATEC
CTJ-350
1950
1.5HP
3 blade
230kg
1299


JET
JJ8CS
1690
2HP
not specified
189kg
1599


LEDACRAFT
MB-203S
1943
1.5HP
not specified
???
1694


CARBATEC
CTJ-350X
1950
1.5HP
40 cutter spiral
230kg
1999


LAGUNA
8" Wedgebed
1803
2HP
54 cutter spiral
231kg
2250


LAGUNA
8" Parellelogram
2108
3HP
54 cutter spiral
248kg
3190

</tbody>


Hmmm... Prices have changed a bit. Might be worth while updating this table.

John

[Pearo]

Hmmm... Prices have changed a bit. Might be worth while updating this table.

John

I have been planning to update it. I also have another machine to add to it. Bit busy at the moment, but will review it next week.

Laguna want $4000 for their machine, but the usual story every time I got to take a look at one "got 2 in a container and they will sell quick", you can preorder now. Carbatec dont have the powermatic in stock either, so cant look at that. The more I think about it now, the more I am thinking I might just by a second hand carbatec jointer and put in a helical cutter. I can always upgrade the motor as well. Would certainly be a lot less coin than the laguna offering. I am really not willing to commit $4k to a machine that I cannot have a look at first. I am sure the laguna is a better machine, but without looking I dont really know.

[Yanis]

...I might just by a second hand carbatec jointer and put in a helical cutter.....

I have been scanning Gumtree and Ebay daily for the last 6 months and the only reason I got this one was through my wife's negotiating skills. She can be like a bull terrier when she gets a hold of something. But of course the market is not so big in SA.

John

[Mehrdad]

Hi guys,
I am new member, same as you I was tossing between Laguna and Powermatic, I checked Powermatic at Carba-Tec, nice machine but I order Laguna base on my Band saw which I have no problem with it, plus you get one hors power extra on Laguna and mobility, to me these two machine are very similar and I believe both are from same manufacturer in Taiwan, this is my second time I buying from Gregory machinery happy with they service, any ways when I get mine by end of September will let you know about it

[Pearo]

Hi guys,
I am new member, same as you I was tossing between Laguna and Powermatic, I checked Powermatic at Carba-Tec, nice machine but I order Laguna base on my Band saw which I have no problem with it, plus you get one hors power extra on Laguna and mobility, to me these two machine are very similar and I believe both are from same manufacturer in Taiwan, this is my second time I buying from Gregory machinery happy with they service, any ways when I get mine by end of September will let you know about it

How convenient. New user, 2 posts, both talking up Gregory machinery.

[Mehrdad]

I don' know what are you trying to say mate, I am some one like you, couldn't find any reviews for the jointer and base on my experience last year I went for Laguna, and Gregory machinery are the sales agency for Laguna in Australia and the only reason I post it, I notice you are looking for a jointer since 11 months ago and price of the jointer up by $800, my research started 4 weeks ago and been advise by Bill who is long time member of this forums and recently start work for Gregory to check this forums before order you can see his nice review on 10"Fusion table saw on this pages
So believe me my friend there is nothing except some one opinion on the jointer

[Pearo]

I don' know what are you trying to say mate, I am some one like you, couldn't find any reviews for the jointer and base on my experience last year I went for Laguna, and Gregory machinery are the sales agency for Laguna in Australia and the only reason I post it, I notice you are looking for a jointer since 11 months ago and price of the jointer up by $800, my research started 4 weeks ago and been advise by Bill who is long time member of this forums and recently start work for Gregory to check this forums before order you can see his nice review on 10"Fusion table saw on this pages
So believe me my friend there is nothing except some one opinion on the jointer

All good champ. I have made 3 visits to Greg machinery now, so getting used to their typical sales routine. Just thought it was odd that a new user popped up promoting laguna at the exact same time I questioned them because of that typical sales technique just as I was about to pay a deposit on the machine. Just bought a second hand machine of Bill, so I know he is a good bloke, I just dont trust his boss.

[Mehrdad]

Hi Pearo,
well done mate finally you got your machine good luck with it, can you please let us know which one you bough
about Bills boss I have no idea, I deal with John over the phone last year over my band saw (I live in Adelaide), even with Bill he wasn't going to give me any discount til I told them I will get the Powermatic with 10% off from CARBA-TEC which I was so close to do that, than Bill drop the price and we made the deal, the both machine are very similar
I hope I made a right decision because I couldn't find any reviews on Laguna jointer except the one on you tube which the guy unpacking his machine and speck French and he says few times top notch
Any ways I have to wait and see what I get, like when you buy a watermelon out side look good but you don't know how is inside except for the jointer I pay lots of money
Wood workers in Australia don't have many choices, that's why Carba-Tec or Gregory do whatever suitable for them for example changing price every 3 months
all the best with your jointer

[Yanis]

Was looking forward to getting the jointer tomorrow and having a play but the guy is at the woodworking show in Melbourne. Dang!

John

[Pearo]

Was looking forward to getting the jointer tomorrow and having a play but the guy is at the woodworking show in Melbourne. Dang!

John

Make sure you give us an update.

Seems Gregory machinery has wiped me, wont answer my emails now. I spoke to carbatec about the powermatic and they have 3 shipments, the first one is taken, and the second is (from memory) 5 machines, the third for 10 machines next year.

If you read the US websites, they all say that laguna has poor support, and that powermatic is well supported. But most push the grizzly, which from what I can tell is the same as the carbatec. No reports from Aussie users though.

[Yanis]

Make sure you give us an update.

... No reports from Aussie users though.

Will do. I'll give it a thorough going over in the first couple of weeks. I have some heavy work for it to do. From the looks I think it has not seen a lot of work. The guy I am buying it from is a hobbyist and it is on its original edges.

I am picking up a second hand kitchen later in the week and will try and arrange a pickup when I have the truck. That is the plan at this stage.

[Yanis]

Well I hired a truck (at least my wife hired a truck) to transport a granite top kitchen that she picked up second hand. I booked yesterday and today on leave and we picked the truck up at 6 on Wednesday night (after the Bunnings trade opening event at Seaford). I then grabbed my son and went to pick up the jointer.

I could not wait to try it out and took some bandsawed logs and surfaced the sawn face. Worked a treat. I have been refurbishing a pretty rough work bench into a nice slab top woodwork bench and I have a glue up for the front apron. I just finished surfacing one side and except for a very small amount of tear out where the grain on one of the boards in in the wrong direction it came up perfectly surfaced. The tear out is only near one end - no big deal. The glue up is just on 8" and the fence does not move completely out of the way so there was a few mm over the edge of the head. However a few strokes of the block plane easily cleaned up the ridge.

The fence is dead easy to adjust with a lateral securing lever and an angle securing lever with graduations and a 90 deg set pin. The infeed table is also very easy to adjust with a large lever handle and a securing lever with a height scale. I have not checked the setup but the trip down was fairly easy and we had the lift on the truck so it was more or less wheeled onto the truck then wheeled off.

Having only had a short time to use it I am really happy with it but time will tell. I will submit a more thorough review when I get more use.

[Pearo]

I bit the bullet and bought the laguna. Gets delivered next week I think. Lets hope I made the right decision.