New Jointer is Coplanar but can't get the Fence square

[Tahlee]

I recently bought a new 10 inch combo jointer/thicknesser.

The new machine was delivered just before Christmas ...out of true ... I could not set the fence square along its length. The edge of the timber can not be machined square to the face ... the primary reason for a jointer one would think.

After adjusting the machine, the outfeed table is absolutely level with blade at TDC across the cutting edge ... near and far side pics tell the story ..335799335802

The Infeed table is now also coplanar with outfeed table (pics showing table moved down 20/1000th below the outfeed) for near and far sides .... and below the blades by the same 20/1000. 335800335801

So you would think that all would now be good,

BUT I am still unable to set the fence square along its length.

The infeed table is square to the fence all along the length of the infeed table, ..... and drops by slightly less than 2 thousandth at the blade side of the outfeed table .... but is 11 thousandth at the end of the outfeed table!!.335803335804

Obviously there is a sag at the near end of the outfeed table (OR RISE IN THE OTHER SIDE OF THE OUTFEED TABLE).

I've got to find now how to shim the outfeed table and still keep the current situation at the blades and coplanar.

If I cant find a solution can I just square the sides in the table saw ... or will the face be warped because of the skewed output table?

The saga continues

Rob

[pjt]

As I see it you have set up both infeed and outfeed tables to be coplanar with tdc of the cutter blades at either side of the cutter head then checked the fence for square to the tables along the length of the fence and found some error on the outfeed side, to me this suggests possibly two things, the outfeed has a twist (or somesort of hollow) in it or the fence has a twist or both!
To check the tables I'd lay a straightedge along the infeed and outfeed and check for coplanar along the length, if all is good there should be no gaps on either side, a twist will be indicated by a larger/smaller gap when compared side to side.
Test the fence same as for the tables, best tho would be a known reference surface to check the fence against.
My fence on my machine is not the best but I live with it, hand planing usually follows if needs require otherwise it's OK


Pete

[twosheds]

Hi Tahlee

I have the older version of this Carbatec combo machine. After 4 years of fiddling with the setup to get it right I have basically given up on it, but don't let this deter you. I am known as a bit of a PDSC when it comes to mechanical thingys.

With regard to shimming...... From memory I firstly aligned the outfeed table with the cutterhead then aimed to get both tables co-planer along their length first. I used shims on the 'hinge' side of the offending infeed table. For shims I used aluminium soft drink cans cut into strips. This seemed to work okay after some trial and error.

The bad news is I also had to shim the thicknesser table as it was not aligned with the cutterhead either.

Hope this helps a bit

Regards
Twosheds

[Tahlee]

As I see it you have set up both infeed and outfeed tables to be coplanar with tdc of the cutter blades at either side of the cutter head then checked the fence for square to the tables along the length of the fence and found some error on the outfeed side, to me this suggests possibly two things, the outfeed has a twist (or somesort of hollow) in it or the fence has a twist or both!
To check the tables I'd lay a straightedge along the infeed and outfeed and check for coplanar along the length, if all is good there should be no gaps on either side, a twist will be indicated by a larger/smaller gap when compared side to side.
Test the fence same as for the tables, best tho would be a known reference surface to check the fence against.
My fence on my machine is not the best but I live with it, hand planing usually follows if needs require otherwise it's OK


Pete

Thanks Pete,
I told the dealer about this problem with the outfeed table a couple of days after the machine was delivered. I was unable to get the fence square from day one ... even while the machine was still on its packing pallet!!.... and they suggested that I reset the table .. or they could sent someone out to set the table .... at a charge!!

I took the fence back to the seller on Friday and they checked for flatness and it was OK, once again I was told that the technician could visit at a charge, or I could shim out the fence (I dont see how this would help as the reference table is the problem .... not the fence).

I can not see how to lift the dropped corner ..... the manual is absolutely useless in this regard ....

The salesman said that I shouldn't get too hung-up on absolute flatness ... and the wood moves anyway ... that may be so ... but when you can't cut an edge square with the face ... that's a fundamental problem.

Regards

Rob

[pjt]

Thanks Pete,
I told the dealer about this problem with the outfeed table a couple of days after the machine was delivered. I was unable to get the fence square from day one ... even while the machine was still on its packing pallet!!.... and they suggested that I reset the table .. or they could sent someone out to set the table .... at a charge!!

I took the fence back to the seller on Friday and they checked for flatness and it was OK, once again I was told that the technician could visit at a charge, or I could shim out the fence (I dont see how this would help as the reference table is the problem .... not the fence).

I can not see how to lift the dropped corner ..... the manual is absolutely useless in this regard ....

The salesman said that I shouldn't get too hung-up on absolute flatness ... and the wood moves anyway ... that may be so ... but when you can't cut an edge square with the face ... that's a fundamental problem.

Regards

Rob

As I'm guessing you know there's concrete flat and then there's tool room surface table flat and I doubt your reseller would have one of those, so How did they check it? Put a striaghtedge along top and btm and said yeh it's flat but that may not tell you if there's a twist or by how much.
I guess there's a few ways to go from here, keep hammering the supplier to get resolution to your satisfaction, seek your own independant flatness testing; there might be a few forumites in the metal working forum that might be of assistance here, or set up the infeed side of the machine square and accept the last part of the edge is not gonna be as square as the first part, this is basically my solution with my jointer, another point with mine is I have a curve in the height of the fence so different height pieces gives a different result.


Pete

[DSEL74]

I no nothing of setting up your jointer, but I have a surface plate and straight edges from boeing that may be able to help check anything for flatness. You would have to bring the parts to the surface plate as it is a big block of cast iron an ain't moving. I'm in Lilydale if your interested PM me.

Out of interest what brand and model is the machine??

[Chris Parks]

If you paid by CC have a chat to your bank about stopping the payment and return the machine.

[GarethR]

I understand your pain, went through a similar exercise some years ago and ended up returning the machine.

Q's:



I note that you've placed the feeler gauge right at the very top end of the fence on the outfeed side, what is the measurement nearer to the base, i.e at the far end but at the bottom of the fence?
Have you tried jointing any wood and what are the results?
Do you see yourself squaring up long boards of wood and needing the entire length of the fence? I tend to predominantly use the region on the infeed and close end of the outfeed when jointing.


If you're unsatisfied with the product I'd push for either a free tech visit (which I think you're more than entitled to), get a fence replacement (free) to ensure it's not that, or return the machine.

Good luck.

[Tahlee]

I no nothing of setting up your jointer, but I have a surface plate and straight edges from boeing that may be able to help check anything for flatness. You would have to bring the parts to the surface plate as it is a big block of cast iron an ain't moving. I'm in Lilydale if your interested PM me.

Out of interest what brand and model is the machine??

Carba-tec 10 inch combo with spiral head ...

Thanks for the offer to check flatness on your equipment... but I have no way of moving the tables ... thanks all the same.

The table is slightly out of square at the far side of the outfeed table ... and gets progressively worse as I move the fence to the near side

I have 15 4 metre lengths of 8X4 25 year old F7 Oregon that was one used as beams in a balcony ... so I cleaned the paint off them with a cheap power plane and a sanding disc on a grinder before going anywhere the new machine.

Ran 3 of them through yesterday ... setting the far side of outfeed table to the squarest I could get and ran the timber on the farside of the bed. The fence was nit absolutely square (minus 1.5/1000 to plus 0.5/1000 over the first 100mm of the table width .... the result was really pleasing ... as far as I can tell the edge is square with the face and they are flat and true.

I guess I just need to find ways to compensate for the table drop by using the far side for edging ....

The Oregon is big timber ... I am using it to build window frames and Workshop table extensions for the jointer and the saws .... and I am tuning the edges with the trusty No4.

Regards

Rob