Wadkin JY Bobbin Sander

[camoz]

So I thought I had already posted this here, but either my memory has failed me, or I just can't find the post, so if I have posted this already then I apologise.

This is a story of acquiring the right machine for my workshop and needs, and also an example of the machine whisperer at work (AKA Henry, Clear Out).

A fair while ago, I managed to acquire a Wadkin JT Disk and bobbin sander. A beautiful machine, but was far too large for my needs and was taking up valuable floor space. One day in conversation, Henry said he was looking for a JT, and I asked him what he would do with his JY bobbin sander, he planned to sell it.....hmmmm.

Well you guessed it, we ended up swapping. Some might debate who got the better deal, but for me, I was always after the JY, but settled for the JT when I couldn't find one. The JY suits my needs, and Henry got the machine that suits his needs, so it was a great swap.

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/30634EF1-7F41-4636-B5E8-C76A602422CF_zpshaerjh5z.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/30634EF1-7F41-4636-B5E8-C76A602422CF_zpshaerjh5z.jpg.html)

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/CEE16025-9956-4D30-B08E-80E98C762647_zpspae0turl.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/CEE16025-9956-4D30-B08E-80E98C762647_zpspae0turl.jpg.html)

So back in October I think (like I said, I thought I had posted), Henry came up to my place, unloaded the JY and we loaded the JT.

I only had one regret about the trade, Henry's JY (well mine now:)) is a very early example, and every JY bobbin sander I have seen before in the past, had a dust extraction port cast into the table, this one does not (you may notice the curved corners on all sides). Now it's very cool to have an early example, but you can imagine the dust this machine would produce. To my surprise, Henry said he thought he might know were another table might be for a JY, all I kept thinking is I've been searching for years for a JY with no luck, and Henry not only has a JY, but thinks he know were a spare table is....lol.

Well about a week later true to his word......

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/761ADE74-8667-40BF-9323-875F51971EAC_zpsggdflt3k.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/761ADE74-8667-40BF-9323-875F51971EAC_zpsggdflt3k.jpg.html)

As you can see this one has the built in dust chute:hpydans:.

Now this isn't the first time Henry has found what I consider to be Unobtainium, and for this, I now call him the machine whisperer, and I am truly grateful.

So that's my story of a good trade, and Henry the machine whisperer.

[auscab]

Nice little Wadkin there Camo .
The later table pictured , does that do it's sucking between the cast top and a fitted steel sheet on the under side of the top?
It looks like it must be that way . Interesting thanks, I never knew that .

You have machine no 107 , I recently learned that they started the numbering of a new model off at no 100 as you know , so you have the 7th JY made ,
is that right ? . Is there a similar wadkin machine that precedes the JY with a different name , like the JX Or was this type of JY the first of them ?

Rob

[L.S.Barker1970]

Is there a similar wadkin machine that precedes the JY with a different name , like the JX Or was this type of JY the first of them ?

Rob

The JU was the machine before the JY, Rob its too bad we didn't spot this one before Cam, it would of been a quick trip in the ute over the border, no trailer needed...lol
Cam you did well mate !
I to have been on the hunt for one of those for many years, no joy but I do know where one is hiding .....(no not yours Cam, another)
It is interesting to note that in the catalogue cut below that the front cover machine has the dust chute and yet on another example inside the brochure one with no dust chute.
I would have that JY over many other sanders Cam, its a keeper ...

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355112/img102_zps9e834d01.jpg
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355112/img104_zps00b782fb.jpg
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355112/img103_zps9292bec1.jpg
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355112/img105_zps680992af.jpg
Melbourne Matty.

[clear out]

Matty this I picked up in Bendigo or Ballarat a few years ago.:D
I went down to pick up some extra bits for a Triumph Mayflower I'd bought down in Vic.
My bro came with me and we also went to the Wolsley farm to get a gear bag for his MGA.
The big disappointment was the ban my wife put on me bringing back a Bofors gun for the front garden from the closing down auction at the tank museum.
They did have a couple of Aussie cruiser tanks and the major casting of another's hull, now that would have been something to keep the neighbours guessing:oo:

Our PC is kaput currently or I'd have dig thru my cattle dogs re the early sanders.
We are heading down your way over the next week,the wife's sister is out here from Canada and we thought we'd better show her some cultural stuff.:rolleyes:
H.

[camoz]

Nice little Wadkin there Camo .
The later table pictured , does that do it's sucking between the cast top and a fitted steel sheet on the under side of the top?
It looks like it must be that way . Interesting thanks, I never knew that .

You have machine no 107 , I recently learned that they started the numbering of a new model off at no 100 as you know , so you have the 7th JY made ,
is that right ? . Is there a similar wadkin machine that precedes the JY with a different name , like the JX Or was this type of JY the first of them ?

Rob

Here is a couple of better pictures (maybe) to show the dust chute on the newer table.

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/D7E1A51A-B3F6-43F3-9A6E-F1BD06EFC4DA_zpswnu5f99a.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/D7E1A51A-B3F6-43F3-9A6E-F1BD06EFC4DA_zpswnu5f99a.jpg.html)

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/56FCC9DB-5ABA-4930-BC92-295A9F3FE041_zps6qoprja6.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/56FCC9DB-5ABA-4930-BC92-295A9F3FE041_zps6qoprja6.jpg.html)

that picture I showed in the first post, ignore what looks like an off centre clean insert (the table is just sitting on something).

I had heard before people talking about machine numbers starting at 100, but have never been too sure how confirmed this is. I'm guessing it was bought up in your PK post, did anyone have any information to confirm it?. I could see companies doing something like that (you want to look like you've had lots of interest, so why start at 1).

As Matty said, the JU was the predecessor, but from what I understand (from the catalogue cuts I have) the JY was the first of Wadkins direct drive?

[camoz]

Matty,


You always surprise me!!!! I didn't think anyone would have a catalogue image of a JY without the dust extraction Chute in the table. I've got a 1929 catalogue with the JU in it, and from the looks of it, your catalogue is 1944, any idea when the JY started (based on your catalogues?







http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355112/img104_zps00b782fb.jpg
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355112/img103_zps9292bec1.jpg



Funny how just above the picture of the JY with no chute, they describe the inbuilt Chute:U (Someone washy paying attention).

Thanks for the images, and kind words, oh and like I said before, you and Rob are only allowed to buy machines listed in Victoria...lol.

cheers,

Camo

[camoz]

Matty this I picked up in Bendigo or Ballarat a few years ago.:D
I went down to pick up some extra bits for a Triumph Mayflower I'd bought down in Vic.
My bro came with me and we also went to the Wolsley farm to get a gear bag for his MGA.
The big disappointment was the ban my wife put on me bringing back a Bofors gun for the front garden from the closing down auction at the tank museum.
They did have a couple of Aussie cruiser tanks and the major casting of another's hull, now that would have been something to keep the neighbours guessing:oo:

Our PC is kaput currently or I'd have dig thru my cattle dogs re the early sanders.
We are heading down your way over the next week,the wife's sister is out here from Canada and we thought we'd better show her some cultural stuff.:rolleyes:
H.

Henry,

So it's originally a Victorian machine...lol.

That Bofors gun would have been perfect for directions "just turn right and the house is on the right, it's the one with the anti-aircraft gun in the garden"

Hey is the computer dead and buried, or something I may be able to help with? I have been meaning to call you, to drop in next time I am down your way. I am happy to have a look for you and see if I can get it up and running again.

Cheers,

Cameron

[clear out]

Hey is the computer dead and buried, or something I may be able to help with? I have been meaning to call you, to drop in next time I am down your way. I am happy to have a look for you and see if I can get it up and running again.

Cheers,

Cameron[/QUOTE]

Hi Cam,
We had something replaced on the PC then when we got it home it won't kick start.
I guess well just go back up to the shop and try again when we get back from south of the border.
Those Mexicans are lucky we are not taking my ute this trip or I'd be hauling back some more old arn.
Ill give you a shout when we're back in New South and catch up.
H.

[camoz]

Hi Cam,
We had something replaced on the PC then when we got it home it won't kick start.
I guess well just go back up to the shop and try again when we get back from south of the border.
Those Mexicans are lucky we are not taking my ute this trip or I'd be hauling back some more old arn.
Ill give you a shout when we're back in New South and catch up.
H.

Hey Henry,

If they replaced something and now it's not working, sounds like a good idea to get them to have a look, but don't let them charge you any more. If they start talking extra charges or more parts, feel free to give me a call. Not saying I'm all of a sudden a computer repair man, but with my old businesses, I had my fair share of computer problems to fix, so I can at worst have a look for you, at best replace the part and save you some money in labour.

Cheers,

Camo

[L.S.Barker1970]

Matty this I picked up in Bendigo or Ballarat a few years ago.:D
We are heading down your way over the next week,the wife's sister is out here from Canada and we thought we'd better show her some cultural stuff.:rolleyes:
H.

Henry, I don't know what to say, I feel bad now about my trip over to see Cam and pick some goodies up, may be I'll get there and Cam won't answer his phone ...lol
As for Cultural stuff, we have the Calder Park Drags on friday night, King st night clubs in the city can be quite colorful too.
Hope some of these recommendations help ....

Melbourne Matty.

[Allison74]

Hi Cam.
Now that's a nice sander, just what I'm looking for. You've given me renewed hope that i can find one.

have fun,
Alli

[camoz]

Hi Cam.
Now that's a nice sander, just what I'm looking for. You've given me renewed hope that i can find one.

have fun,
Alli

Hey Alli,

Good to hear from you, hope things are well and thanks for your kind words. I think it's a harder machine to find, as they probably trade hands without being listed publicly. I had certainly been searching for this machine, long and hard, but typically it was when I had fully given up, that the opportunity arose.

Hope you find one, I'm sure you will put it to work.

Cheers,

Camo

[Allison74]

Hi Cam,
I'm doing well and yourself?
I'm busy working on my Wadkin Pattern Mill, it's going really well. No nasty surprises yet which is good.
Maybe I should start a thread here.
I put one up on the OWWM site.

Have fun,
Alli

[Evanism]

That disk sander on page 4 is a demon!

[clear out]

That is certainly an interesting shot of the 2 sanders.
The double disc has no guarding whatsoever but looking on the floor between the operators leg and machine on our side is what appears to be a dust chute going thru the floor.
On the combo disc and bobbin the dust chute is above that location.
The bobbin appears to have an above table collector which then goes straight down thru the floor also.
Barker made a similar double disc, there was one on the 'bay recently up in Queensland.
There was at least one local bobbin manufacturer, I picked one up from an auction years ago here in Sydney for a mate from Kyogle. I took a copy of the instructions which has the makers info on it. When I get back to Sydney I will dig it out and post it.
I was offered a bobbin a few years back but never chased it up as I already had one.
Might see if I can find the card he gave me.
The first bobbin I owned came from Slazengers closing down auction here in Sydney it was a spindle with 2 motors, one for the up and down and one for the spin. Both external, one even had a twisted flat belt. I modded it so the spin one was inboard and went up and down. Don't know if the guys I sold it to still have it but if they do will put up pics.
H.

[jgforsberg]

this 1919 ad shows the bobbin and disks with out guarding Henry and the bobbin has a door in front of the pick up.

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/images/e/ee/Machinery-Wadkin-1916-1.jpeg




This 1927 ad with the PL the electric motor drive saw fixed table PK early development line still show the bobbin with air pick up up top with no door in front the bobbin. A very early bobbin Camo most likely one of the first electric drives (They say the machine numbers start at 100). Mine with pick up in the table is 1943. Great machine that as far as i can tell are the only ones to have spindle travel Rise and fall for use of all the paper. In fact with the steel bobbins one can have two grits of paper on one bobbin and use the rise and fall for grits.

I do believe that the motor drive JY(have not seen a JU Matty) was the model that put rise and fall in the spindle with its ingenuous power takeoff at the bottom with is spring balanced oil bath. I don't see rise and fall or table tilt on the line belt machines? Just like Wadkin to make small changes over time with big changes getting a new second letter.





http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/images/d/d6/Im1927v143-p256c.jpg

stock wadkin only came with 3 size bobbins?so i rolled my own. Have a look here if your missing some sizes.

http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/wdkin-jy-bobbin-sander-drums-roll-your-own-t55450.html


jack
English machines

[clear out]

this 1919 ad shows the bobbin and disks with out guarding Henry and the bobbin has a door in front of the pick up.

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/images/e/ee/Machinery-Wadkin-1916-1.jpeg

Jack, The top disc does have a guard!?
The lower one sure doesn't.:no:

(I don't see rise and fall or table tilt on the line belt machines? Just like Wadkin to make small changes over time with big changes getting a new second letter.)

Both the bobbins appear to have tilt tables?
the adjustment would appear to be the near vertical rod with the locking handle.:2tsup:
H.





http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/images/d/d6/Im1927v143-p256c.jpg

stock wadkin only came with 3 size bobbins?so i rolled my own. Have a look here if your missing some sizes.

http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/wdkin-jy-bobbin-sander-drums-roll-your-own-t55450.html


jack
English machines
H.

[L.S.Barker1970]

(have not seen a JU Matty)

jack
English machines

Here is a Catalog cut from a 1927 Wadkin catalog Jack, hey nice to see you posting this side of the pond too !
Not much unisaw stuff here I'm afraid...lol

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355117/img106_zpsacb52d45.jpg
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355117/img107_zps157efe83.jpg
Melbourne Matty.

[camoz]

Jack,

Thanks for you comments, and the link to your thread on bobbins and for dropping over this side of the pond to post. The J.U. was a reciprocating sander, and did cant 30 degrees below and 15 degrees above horizontal, it had a scale for registering the principal angles and plunger stop. It was either supplied with a fan like the ones in your picture, or hood and piping without the fan, like one of Matty's pictures (the JU is in my 1929 catalogue). The obvious changes were the motor drive and handwheel for tilt, but I always thought the other big change was the addition of a dust port in the table casting, so it was a big shock when I found this one was designed without the dust port. I am glad that Matty has confirmed the J.U. was the model before the JY, as the table is clearly not a JU table (the JU table top looks completely different to the JY, and everything matches in the casting, bolt holes etc with the new JY table), so obviously the JY was originally released with a dust collection attachment like the JU.

I think it's pretty cool if this is the 7th JY produced, it's interesting that you have also heard the same thing about the machines starting at 100, I don't suppose you remember where this theory originated, is it something that Phil discovered in his research??

So my one must be some time after 1929.

Cheers,

Camo

Edit: Damn you Matty....lol, posting just before I post (I really need to learn to type quicker):whs:

[camoz]

You've given me renewed hope that i can find one.

have fun,
Alli

There is a post on the Canadian forum where one of the members has recently acquired a JY, and a similar story of searching for a long time before finding one. I have been looking at machine numbers and test numbers of machines to get an idea of how many JY's were made. This is what I have so far:

The machine just posted on the Canadian forum is machine number 569 and a 1954 machine, one of the guys in the UK (Mark) restored a 1965 machine and it was machine number 685, so 116 made in 11 years, another one listed for sale now, is a 1979 and machine number 876, so that's 307 in 25 years, if we assume machine numbers started at 100, that's 776 machines made by 1979, makes me wonder how many in total were made, then how many made it to Australia, and then ultimately how many survived until today.

There definitely out there, but I was thinking there would have been more made.

cheers,

Camo

[jgforsberg]

Jack,

Thanks for you comments, and the link to your thread on bobbins and for dropping over this side of the pond to post. The J.U. was a reciprocating sander, and did cant 30 degrees below and 15 degrees above horizontal, it had a scale for registering the principal angles and plunger stop. It was either supplied with a fan like the ones in your picture, or hood and piping without the fan, like one of Matty's pictures (the JU is in my 1929 catalogue). The obvious changes were the motor drive and handwheel for tilt, but I always thought the other big change was the addition of a dust port in the table casting, so it was a big shock when I found this one was designed without the dust port. I am glad that Matty has confirmed the J.U. was the model before the JY, as the table is clearly not a JU table (the JU table top looks completely different to the JY, and everything matches in the casting, bolt holes etc with the new JY table), so obviously the JY was originally released with a dust collection attachment like the JU.

I think it's pretty cool if this is the 7th JY produced, it's interesting that you have also heard the same thing about the machines starting at 100, I don't suppose you remember where this theory originated, is it something that Phil discovered in his research??

So my one must be some time after 1929.

Cheers,

Camo

Edit: Damn you Matty....lol, posting just before I post (I really need to learn to type quicker):whs:

The 100 thing was used by a number of makers and the seral numbers on machinery makers over at Vintage machinery wiki show many that used this starting point. I have yet to see a Wadkin number before 100 but not many tags have been listed yet. By you own number study its unlikely yours was 107 given how many were made over the years.

here is my tag for the study.
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/tag010_zps32029440.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/wadkin/tag010_zps32029440.jpg.html)

Not all maker used this and there is only speculation as to when the numbers start but there is proof that it is likely.

Now the question is does my Burrows and Green MZ start at 10 or 0

336979

[camoz]

Jack,

I think your right about it being more likely to be machine number 7 than machine number 107 based on the information at hand at the moment. I will start keeping my eye out for sub 100 tags.

Thanks for the photo of the tag, just trying to make out the second number of the Serial number, is that JY 498??

Cheers,

Camo

P.S. I love that Burrows & Green bandsaw, had not picked up on how early an example it was until now

[clear out]

Cam, I'm back on but not sure if its all A OK yet so here is a sample pic from my stash.
H.

PS I have a bit on double discs etc , should I add them to this post or start a new one?

[clear out]

Cam,
This is from a 1936 cat. The previous one from the Aussie leaflet which is 1930, note the disc glue up clamp on that machine.
I will try to put up my earlier full cat stuff tonight, slight difference in machine but the stuff sanded and operators are the same as one of these.
Even without digital I guess they could mod the pics as they liked.
H.337394

[camoz]

Henry,

Very interesting! So assuming the Bobbin side of the JT was the same as the individual Bobbin sander, then that means I can now narrow the build date for my machine to within 1930 (after the catalogue was released) and 1936 (before the catalogue was released).

Interesting concept with the built in glue clamps, how messy was the original glue process? Perhaps this is why they changed to an independent clamping stand?

As for posting the stuff on the double disc machine, I don't mind you posting it in this thread, if you would prefer not to start a new thread, it's up to you, but I would certainly love to see them.

One thing these pictures have taught me about pattern makers though, they were very messy, just throwing there patterns all over the floor:p.

cheers,

Camo