Old lady took a fall! - Barker??

[DSEL74]

When people get careless.

This is how is was a few days ago.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/plQAAOSwxYxUrecu/$_57.JPGhttp://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/FOAAAOSw1vlUredH/$_57.JPG


Whilst being loaded by a for lift she took a tumble. No sling was used.
The wheels were off at the time.

The top adjuster which is a bolt on part, (I believe this make the machine a early model?) from the photos has had the attachment flange broken off and the spring adjuster arm also.


These are the table base, not sure what the first pic actually is other than the two pieces that broke off, but what, second is the rocker which appears to be cracked down the centre
337476337477


There is also a crack in one of the feet, it did have fresh professional poured babbit bearings not sure how they would have faired up.


It was suggested that the bandsaw is a Barker, but I don't think it is as there is no embossed logo in the usual place.




I'm really upset about it and not sure how I will proceed. The old Gal survived all this time until………

The top adjuster is getting priced for welding (professionally??) the rest may be done by the dropee.

[auscab]

The pic on the left looks like the cradle that the table rests on and tilts , the right pic looks like its mate on the underside of the table .
Fixed easily by the looks, with a welder.
It must have hit the table when it fell over, lucky that didn't break !!

Did he send pics of the broken wheel adjuster ? that sounds worse.

[DSEL74]

337478

From what I can work out this is broken in these places.
337479

[auscab]

Oh !! starts off like the sound of a tyre going down.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

No need to say the rest .

Oh Why not.:)

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

[DSEL74]

Yep that about sums it up! On a brighter note the Jointer is at the neighbour's factory and coming home to the shed around 4pm. Hopefully unloading goes without incident.

[Simplicity]

I would be looking to take blood in a case like this

[auscab]

It can be repaired though. The opinions will vary as to which method is used . I did similar repairs to your top break where the spring bolt goes through on my small BS
From memory
There is Ni cad rods with heating and slow cooling
There is Ni cad cold with short bursts
And then there is Bazing with bronze . The old experienced usually say this is best.
Some guys on youtube show repairing cast with a MIG and Stainless wire of some sort.

I did My BS with Mig, and standard wire. I did a big 45 degree grind out on each side and filled it with the Mig , finished with a nice large overlap .
I did the same on a chisel mortiser.

Mig weld a 20 cent piece size of weld to some scrap cast iron and then try and break it off .
Both those Mig repairs have held for years.

Ni cad rods cost a bit .

A pro welder would be charging decent bucks to weld up all that. 4 to $500 with a guess ?? off a reasonable guy .

More off a money smart welder I would bet. the kind who owns a big boat and goes fishing on his days off and knows how to charge.
It would be interesting to see what they quote.

[rob streeper]

MG260 stick electrodes will work on gray cast iron like that. I had a vise handle that broke, iron so gray it was almost black. Wouldn't take any kind of bronze braze or even 40% silver. MG260 1/8" with about 300oC of torch preheat at 90A worked great.

If you do have somebody use nickel rods on it make sure that they use the type that make a machinable deposit because some rods make a non-machinable bead. If you're careful with a file and die grinder you can contour the weld so that you can hardly see the break after painting.

[DSEL74]

I should hear back tomorrow with a price on repair. I would think $4-500 would make the repair unviable.

I can't weld for nuts and don't have a mig so I couldn't do it.

[auscab]

See what he says .

When I did it with MIG I heated it up first with gas , welded it , then did a very slow cool down by burying it in a drum of fine sawdust with a lid on top . It takes more than 12 hrs to cool down enough to be able to handle it.

You've got to make sure there are no places for air to get in as well . I did that the wrong way once and came back to a pile of ash the next day . I had other safety measures in place just in case.

[pmcgee]

Gutted.

[DSEL74]

According to the OWWM guys in the USA it is/was a Crescent which is what I was hoping and matches my Jointer….. And in a way my post drill collection of Silvers, as Crescent used to manufacture for Silver Man Co.
Probably a late 1800s bandsaw.

[DSEL74]

The saw has been welded. Waiting now on photos to see what sort of job was done.

[DSEL74]

It don't look pretty and you will always be able to tell it was repaired. I don't think the welds could be ground back without affecting the strength of the repair,not sure.


The foot apparently was poorly cast and had been filled with white metal. This oozed out with the heat from the weld.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k636/blackdogcustoms/Foot_zpsf310fd4b.jpg (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/blackdogcustoms/media/Foot_zpsf310fd4b.jpg.html)

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k636/blackdogcustoms/Foot1_zpse46ecfe5.jpg (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/blackdogcustoms/media/Foot1_zpse46ecfe5.jpg.html)

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k636/blackdogcustoms/Foot3_zps560f5b19.jpg (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/blackdogcustoms/media/Foot3_zps560f5b19.jpg.html)

I'm guessing this could be tidied up with some automotive filler, I think you guys call it bondo.




The Trunion, cradle. I guess this won't really be seen
http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k636/blackdogcustoms/TableBase_zpsf00c3266.jpg (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/blackdogcustoms/media/TableBase_zpsf00c3266.jpg.html)

I think the rocker has been left with the crank down the middle.


Now these are the pieces that concern me the most. Both are part of the top wheel adjuster assembly.
337992337993

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k636/blackdogcustoms/TopMount_zps729fab90.jpg (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/blackdogcustoms/media/TopMount_zps729fab90.jpg.html)
http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k636/blackdogcustoms/TopMount1_zps5dafa371.jpg (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/blackdogcustoms/media/TopMount1_zps5dafa371.jpg.html)

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k636/blackdogcustoms/TopMountBase_zps391ff57e.jpg (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/blackdogcustoms/media/TopMountBase_zps391ff57e.jpg.html)
http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k636/blackdogcustoms/TopMountBase1_zps6c0b7be6.jpg (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/blackdogcustoms/media/TopMountBase1_zps6c0b7be6.jpg.html)

Dsel74 (http://owwm.org/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=44181) Posts: 27Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:21 pm





Top (http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=157329&p=1062222#wrap)

[L.S.Barker1970]

I'm guessing this could be tidied up with some automotive filler, I think you guys call it bondo ?





We just call it "bog" Dale, I think the Yanks call it Bondo...

Melbourne Matty.

[DSEL74]

Hey Matty,

Yeah I know, the post above I cut n paste from the one I put on OWWM. I should have corrected that for the locals. I didn't want to use the word BOG on OWWM because I think it has different connotations to the Yanks.

What do you think of the bandsaw and the damage/repairs???

[L.S.Barker1970]

Hey Matty,

What do you think of the bandsaw and the damage/repairs???

Dale, very disappointed for you as to how your machine was handled, as you know yourself soft slings are the only way to go lifting heavy equipment.
The repairs on the surface look good, a large size bead of weld run which would show good penetration into the cast, is it my eyes or do I do see some faint hair line cracks still in the last pic, have a close look your self and see, top L/H weld, might just be the photo not sure.
Time will tell when you get it back to your place, and get it running with a blade and some tension on those welds.
I hope they look after you on the deal, you'd want to walk away at least feeling better about it ...

Melbourne Matty.

[Acco]

I'd been inclined to ask for my money back Dale, was it the guy you bought it off or the transport company that dropped it? Would also depend on how much you paid and how much he was prepared to give back due to not being in original condition as when you viewed/paid for it.

Some of those welds also look like start and stop as well, so they might not hold up too well???

[DSEL74]

Matty, I can see what your talking about but can't tell if it is a crack or just pixelation playing tricks. That part though look to have been fully welded one side and tacked the other.

I'm mighty disappointed at the fact the machine was damaged.

DJ, It was done by the seller, he was delivering it for a fee worked into the sale price.



I have been in contact with a few people in the USA and they may have the small broken parts, not sure how much they want for them or shipping but probably too much in the scheme of things. The main casting well that is what it is no replacements there.

I have asked for a revised price from him, and will have to either accept it or get a refund.


You guys have more experience in trading these things than I. What do you think fair price on the machine would be as it now stands? I can compare that to what he comes back with.

It is said to have new babbit bearings, good tyres and comes with 12 rusty but sharp blades, machine is rusty and now repaired to unknown quality.

[DSEL74]

Whilst writing the last post I got this.


afternon Dale, I ground one weld back and it seems fine for now.I’ve noticed the TopMount weld has a fine surface crack on one weld.
But the issue is always the quality of the cast and how much it cracks down the track.
As you can see, the casting is fairly ordinary.

I think best bet is I refund your money and re-advertise some of the parts on eBay
The main frame needs junking as the foot is a bad cast and makes the whole unit unstable
I’m also not keen on delivering a machine where a weld may fail at a later stage,
Sorry about the drama

[auscab]

I think the welds look good , you should ask him to tell you what sort of rods were used though. and decide when you know that . As well as what the refund is into the balance.

From the look of the welds it looks like a rod was used because I can see flux inclusions in places I think ?
And you can see the whole pieces have been preheated by the looks. so it looks like the welder has done the right thing.
So if it was the Nicad rods and he was an experienced welder that's good

The other side of where the welds stop is fully welded , that looks good . I would regrind parts and just give a smear of bog over others before paint.
I reckon you would have to give those parts one hell of a thump with a hammer to break them. A lot more than just blade tension.
It matches your buzzer as well . You are not going to get another early saw like that without waiting a year or two and then it may be in Queensland .

Save it Dale , is what I think.

Rob

[L.S.Barker1970]

Whilst writing the last post I got this.

Dale, I honestly think the guys request is fair and reasonable, I suppose you have to look at it from his point of view, an accident has happened, he has done his best to "make good" the bandsaw, the workmanship looks good, can he guarantee the work ? very hard to say it may well run for another 90 years.
I can understand him wanting to walk away...

Melbourne Matty.

[Vann]

...You are not going to get another early saw like that without waiting a year or two and then it may be in Queensland .

Save it Dale , is what I think.I'm with Rob. Take it, try it. It's a classic and it's a shame it's damaged, but this may be your only chance. And if another one does come along, and it's incomplete, you'll kick yourself for having let this bunch of parts slip away.

My tuppence worth...

Cheers, Vann.

[jcge]

Dale - such a shame to see that...

I have a different opinion to others...if the seller is offering you an out, I would get out. Don't get me wrong, I do love these old machines, but as you know, they all have a myriad of little problems that need to be sorted out, and that's starting with a machine without major issues....:no:

edit - all of the issues can be fixed, even the foot, but its really a question of how much time, effort and money you're willing to put into it.

Regards
John

[DSEL74]

I found the two broken upper parts and the guys wants USD$150 plus postage so that would probably be about the cost of the saw. The seller has refunded the money.

This saw was really nice even the shape of the feet had a bit more style then most and it was the same make as my jointer but as they say "It wasn't to be"

So I'm back on the hunt.