SB's Block in Tasmania Build

[Superbunny]

For this thread I'm concentrating on the block and not the shed build on the Shed sub forum. This is the block I purchased last year at Lalla, near Lilydale, in Tasmania, it's just under 8 acares or 3 and a bit hectares. It is mostly covered in bush and has a small stream on its North side running the length of the block and slops South from the road to North. My wife and I spent most of last year getting planning and building permits for the house and shed. As I mentioned in the post 'off the grid' on this forum, we hope to be off the grid with solar and some hydro from the creek. I have been asked 'why off the grid?' by many people, and I ask back with the increasing power costs expected over the next few years let alone what we have had till now, why would you not be off the grid. The cost of getting underground power to a rural block is dead money for a new build and I can put that money into being off the grid and then never having to pay some extortonist power company ever again. It might be just a small thing but the thought brings my wife and I great happyness to stick it back to the power companies. I designed the house myself with the weather and off the grid built in the design for the solar, however, the biggest problem I have had to date, is to meet BAL (bushfire attack level) 29 and I was not happy with this rating but when I thought about it the council is trying to save me from my own stupidity when it comes to a bushfire attack. I know my neigbours are toast if we get a bushfire as they do not have to comply with the new regs, so all in all I'm quite happy about it now.:D:D

SB

[Cliff Rogers]

Watching. :2tsup:

[KBs PensNmore]

Will the BAL add much cost to be compliant for the house? Personally I think all new constructions should be set up "off the grid". Sure it will be an expense to set up, but in 10 years time, it will have paid for itself and hopefully NEVER need replacing.
At least you'll have a bit of timber to play with, and if it doesn't work out, at least it'll keep you warm.:D
Pity there wasn't a green eyed monster in the smilies, Jealousy, because I sure am.
Best of luck to you and the good Lady.
Kryn

[HUON]

You wont regret your decision to go off grid. We made a similar decision 30 years ago and never regretted that decision, not to mention saving a lot of money over that time period. And no black outs or spikes in power or prices.
Best wishes and have a ball.

[Simplicity]

Watching this

[HUON]

And for those folk who prefer to produce most of their own power but would for one reason or another prefer to remain on the grid, and are dictated to by the various power companies about how much power they can feed back into the grid (of which I think is an obscenity) would a class action be out of the question?

[artme]

And for those folk who prefer to produce most of their own power but would for one reason or another prefer to remain on the grid, and are dictated to by the various power companies about how much power they can feed back into the grid (of which I think is an obscenity) would a class action be out of the question?

Probably not!!!

Limiting what can be fed back into the grid has to do with the load needed to keep up supply. What happens to the excess generating capacity? What happens on cloudy days and what happens at night?

Starting and stopping generating turbines is no easy matter so they run more or less constantly.

In Qld. if you produce more than 5kw yo have to be a registered power station. I guess this is reasonable, especially in urban areas.

I have often wondered about having a separate solar set up for our pool. It would not feed anything back to the grid and would probably do all we need it to do.

What needs to be remembered is that we need the grid. We cannot rely on sunshine alone for electricity as the night hours become a problem. Even with battery
storage there are problems. Think of the cost and the disposal problems associated with batteries.

[HUON]

I was reading the ATA's publication about batteries. It seems that battery technology is starting to catch up with power production from what I understand these batteries are going to be very expensive so much so that it is envisaged that they will be leased out to users on a monthly or quarterly basis (sound familiar). Another bit that I read was that the more people that went off grid the more the power companies would jack up their prices, so on and so forth,the reason folk went off grid in the first place was that prices were becoming too expensive.Wouldn't you like to get your hands on the politicians that privatised the SEC, which by the way was a profitable state owned facility.

[Barterbuilt]

Our build was rated at BAL 29 and I don't think it was all that restrictive really.
If you compare the difference between BAL 12.5 and up to 29 there isn't that much extra to do to comply.
Bal 29 should go straight through council without being flicked on to RFS.
Some of our suburban blocks get a 12.5 or 19 BAL level if they have a group of trees on them.:no:

Get to Bal 40 or FZ though and it could cost up to 100K more

And yep.... Off Grid, bring it on

[HUON]

SB, tell me you didn't flatten that site with a twelve tonner. And please keep the pics coming.
Cheers

[Superbunny]

No, I did not have sex with that girl i.e. I did not flatten it with a 12 tonner, the contractor did. What needed to be cleared for the shed and house plus the BAL 29 conditions of 20 m around the house area, everything else stays. There always was one paddock cleared by the previous owner but that will be re planted in Blackwood trees later when we move on site. As you can see a new driveway being built and clearing for the shed and house.:D:D

SB

[HUON]

That's a nice drop of rain, looks like the drainage worked. Are you going to use any of the timber on the property for your house?

[Superbunny]

That's a nice drop of rain, looks like the drainage worked. Are you going to use any of the timber on the property for your house?

No Huon, the contractor only removed regrowth in the house area with no usable timber. The bigger trees area old growth along the creek and on the outer sides of the block. Young coming through gum and Blackwood trees outside the house clearing area will be let to grow.:D:D

SB

[HUON]

Good stuff SB, nice to see the old growth allowed to grow older and age with dignity not to mention providing habitat for the critters we profess to love and protect.

[Superbunny]

Another update of progress of the earthworks, they are now all finished for now and the shed has started to go up. In the picts you can see the forming of one of the batters and a rock wall going in to support the base and make it look good. Also, the springs have been bought under control with drains etc.:D:D

SB

[HUON]

Looks like you've put in a benched area above the rock batter/retainer wall is that to catch the runoff? It's all looking good, all the best.

[Superbunny]

Looks like you've put in a benched area above the rock batter/retainer wall is that to catch the runoff? It's all looking good, all the best.

It's in part to control storm water runoff but also wide so a vehicle can get around the back if required. The new shed 12 x 9m will be where the digger is by the rock wall. There will be two more batters to the right that must be formed with rock walls also and the house lower down the hill side other 10m away to the right. The shed is now in progress and soon to put in a water tank. I'm off to the block at Easter for a few days to check on progress and arrange new work with the contractor of new earthworks. This will be the first time my wife has seen the block for real rather than pictures.:D:D

SB

[artme]

Looking good SB!!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

Another reason to o back to TAS!!!!

[ian]

I'm off to the block at Easter for a few days to check on progress and arrange new work with the contractor of new earthworks. This will be the first time my wife has seen the block for real rather than pictures.:D:D

Brave man !:wink:

[Superbunny]

Shed pad going up and a view from a different side of the block, the shed will be finished this weekend so I have some where to stay when I go down this Easter. I will return with more picks and post after Easter, in the mean time happy Easter and may the woodworking Gods be with you.:D:D

SB

[Dengue]

This is all very interesting SB.. Many thanks for sharing.

A couple of questions arise from you last pic. Do you have good drainage between the shed and the retaining wall? What happens to the runoff from the ground above the retaining wall?

Will the wall sheeting of the shed be butted against the concrete slab to prevent egress of reptiles and vermin?

So envious, I am. Looks great

[Superbunny]

Yes, there is an agg drain between the shed and wall, see previous pictures that show this. The runoff above the wall higher up is controlled and sent to a drain/culvert under the track to the creek. Yes, there is a vermin barrier built into the slab edges for the sheeting to prevent vermin entry. Glad you like the posts and hope you get something from them.

SB

[tdrumnut]

Looking "sweet as" SB, I'll be watching this one with interest.

[Superbunny]

OK, we are making progress and the shed is up ready for the next part of progress. I'm having some more earthworks for the slab area that should be done soon.:D:D

SB

[HUON]

It's a credit to you SB, a very tidy site.

[Superbunny]

More site works finished with the house pad raised up another half metre and widened to better fit the house, soon the rock walls will be done to support the second and third batters, and then ready for the house foundations.:D:D

SB

[HUON]

looking forward to more smiles, SB, accompanying the photos
cheers

[Rickey Herb]

Looking good SB. We are just to lockup with BAL rating of 29 so I know what you will need to go through. Most of the things are pretty sensible but there does seem to be some anomalies.

Rickey

[Superbunny]

The title says it all, I'v just had this $28 000, sandstone wall completed along with some other work. Hope the house in Qld sells soon so I can move on with the house build as I'm out of money now.:D:D

SB

[HUON]

What good is money if you don't spend it on something worthwhile, SB. As for time it took me and Cath 7 years to build our stone house, what's time when you're enjoying the trip.

[HUON]

The seven year house, definitely no sprint job.

[Superbunny]

OK, been busy trying to control water with an agg pipe, a total of 40 metres and hand dug in. It took most of the day and some blood, sweat and tears but all done now. We started to put down mulch the pine post cuttings as they stick to sloping banks better and helps to stop erosion of soil. Starting to get more trees planted and the best news of all is we sold the house in Caboolture so soon to start the house foundations after settlement has been completed.

SB

[ian]

Hi SB

what was your water problem?

if it's mainly surface water down the cut slope, the "normal" approach is to use a catch drain.

if it's subsurface water affecting a roadway (or driveway), the "normal" approach is to place the subsoil drain on the high side.

but more importantly, has it been raining?
are the hydro dams finally starting to fill?

[Cliff Rogers]

..... the best news of all is we sold the house in Caboolture so soon to start the house foundations after settlement has been completed.

SBWaahoo. :2tsup:

[Superbunny]

Hi SB

what was your water problem?

if it's mainly surface water down the cut slope, the "normal" approach is to use a catch drain.

if it's subsurface water affecting a roadway (or driveway), the "normal" approach is to place the subsoil drain on the high side.

but more importantly, has it been raining?
are the hydro dams finally starting to fill?

Not raining yet, only beautiful sunny days like today sorry to say. The agg drain is to catch the runoff from the drive before it gets to the batter the other side of the drive and then run it down to a drain before going into the creek further down. The runoff was going through the gravel to the joins in the sandstone blocks and cutting channels in the batter the other side. My earthmoving contractor said the agg drain will cut it off as the drive is gravel down to 150mm and the mulch will stop the rain eroding the surface of the batter until plants stabilise the soil.

The next step is to drill the piers and construct the foundations and slab, let you know when we get there.

SB

[crowie]

Long slow hail thus far Sb...good news the Caboolture house is sold...the wood forum stand is going to miss your organization in Brisbane...

[Superbunny]

Making some slow progress, the slab still not down but have accepted a quote, the floods have not helped with the concrete guys and their backlogs. I've been busy making glass block windows as the quote I got was astronomical and I had to put it together my self. So to cut a long story short I did some research on the net (you got to love the net for diy videos) ordered the glass blocks and made up my own timber frame and used angle aluminium to make a frame and reveal. I know I don't have the house built but I do know the wall thickness finished sizes. I plan to have the aluminium angle powder coated to match the window frames of the house and then build the glass block windows using morter and reo bars for strength. I have four more to make and I'll update when there done but for now here is my test window to see if the design works.

SB

[Christos]

How big are the windows?

[Superbunny]

6oomm x 600mm a total of 4 and 1800mm x 900mm just 1. It will take 96 glass blocks to do all windows.

SB

[Rickey Herb]

Looking good Superbunny.

[Superbunny]

Just a quick one, the concreter for the slab starts late next week, (party time) and I just had my AES effluent system put in. I learnt a lot from the plumber and council inspector about the AES system that confirmed my thinking about this effluent treatment system (I have no association with the AES company).
I trained many years ago as a water supply and waste water civil engineer and thus have a very good idea of the engineering and science behind waste water treatment. When I found the AES system I was really pleased someone had got off their ass and come up with the goods for home waste water treatment. I evan did the online test as a home builder but I don't get a certificate as I'm not a registered plumber. Anyhow, over the last couple of years I've been hearing that some AES systems are failing and started to get concerned about the system I had committed to with the council and as I said earlier to put in. My thoughts were you got to be joking that this system doesn't work because if this one ticks all the boxes for the science and if this doesn't work then none will ever do it. So I came to the conclusion that it must be the plumber and not the product and yes the inspector and plumber confirmed there are some crap plumbers out there and they don't have a clue what they are really doing. The inspector told me they can do the online test and after that they do anything but what they should be doing and it fails. My plumber has installed around a hundred AES systems without one single failure according to the council inspector but he's seen many failures from plumbers doing the wrong thing and it costs them heeps to pull it out and do it right. The other reason I thought some AES systems fail is the home owner has no idea how to treat them properly ie don't stick stuff that will kill the bugs that eat the effluent or your in trouble and the system will fail. Some people just don't get it, it's not a city system where you can pour terps and other bad stuff down the sink when cleaning paint brushes, why! It kills the good bugs that eat the effluent that's why. So what ever you do learn how to look after your treatment waste system and it's not hard, and have some happy bugs and a good working system but don't say the AES treatment system doesn't work as the proof of this system is out there.

SB

[matruck]

Thank you for the heads up on what AES will do for you wifey and i live on a small 5 acre block in Victoria and our septic needs work badly so i now have another idea to work on thanks again and good luck with your build i'll be keeping a eye out too see what else i can learn for your experience's.
Mick.

[Superbunny]

Happy to help Matruck. We have liftoff and as the concreter said he's on time and the wify is doing handstands, I just hope she doesn't off him sex. It's taken 2 years and 6 months to get to this stage so there's no going back now. Update on the glass block windows the framing aluminium is at the powdercoaters now and should be back next week.

SB

[Cliff Rogers]

It'll never work, as soon as you try to pour the concrete, it is going to fall off & stick to the clouds. :D

[Superbunny]

I know what you mean Cliff, but the photo was taken the right way up and when it was up loaded to post, it flipped it over, any idea what I'm doing wrong?

SB

[Big Shed]

I know what you mean Cliff, but the photo was taken the right way up and when it was up loaded to post, it flipped it over, any idea what I'm doing wrong?

SB


Fixed.

Did you use an iThingy?

[Cliff Rogers]

... any idea what I'm doing wrong?

SB
Yup, you are taking photos with a piece of fruit..... an Apple. :D

[Cliff Rogers]

....
Did you use an iThingy?Another name for a piece of fruit. :wink:

[Superbunny]

Fixed.

Did you use an iThingy?

yep, it's an I things thing.

[Superbunny]

Well we have progress and if the weather holds hope to have a slab by weeks end. They are boxing today.

SB

[Superbunny]

The slab is down, I said the slab is down, we have happyness and all is good with the world. 3-4 weeks and the prefab wall frames will be on site, joy, joy.

SB

[HUON]

There's your proof, the Earth is round and it's turning/spinning

[Superbunny]

Hi guys, after 4.5 hours from delivery we got this far, not bad for a friend, a wife and myself. It's not bolted down yet and we have the bracing sheets to go. Then the first story floor joists then the yellow tongue before delivery of the next floor and roof trusses.

SB

[Rickey Herb]

You've buggered it up SB. You're assembling it upside down!

[Rickey Herb]

392906392903392904

Hope you don't mind but I've rotated them for you.

Good to see the frame going up. Exciting times.

[Superbunny]

Thanks Rickey Herb, I'd like to know how to get the pics the right way up but I just can't seem to get it right with the IPad. I think I'll take the pics upside down and then they will load right.

SB

[Simplicity]

SB ,
I Know my iPhone I can edit the pic there is a button that turns the pic 90 degrees .
Push twice and I'm done .
Might be the same on the pad.

Cheers Matt

[Superbunny]

Thanks Matt, I'll go explore.

SB

[Superbunny]

Well guys, we got this far and ready to build the next level that was delivered today, I have more strapping than a bra factory on it with every bearer strapped each end let alone the ring beam. Enjoy.

SB

ps can you believe it I turned the picture upside down this time thinking it would turn up the right way up, but no it did not happen, I give up.

[Dengue]

Workshop ground floor, living quarters upstairs? I think you are going to need a roller door on the ground level too

[ian]

ps can you believe it I turned the picture upside down this time thinking it would turn up the right way up, but no it did not happen, I give up.here you go
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=395680&d=1475038032

[Superbunny]

It's time for an update I think as the house has progressed somewhat. Just been roofed and now putting in the windows. The electrical system is on a first fit and the cladding is on its way to Australia. I've been talking to the solar guys for the power system and got the solar hot water system on the roof on the other side of the roof. We hope to have most plumbing by Xmas and maybe in by Easter fingers crossed.

SB

[bryn23]

I'm Bloody Jealous,

I love Tasmania, it's an amazing place with awesome people, i could live there in a heartbeat, if my wife would let me.

The house is looking good, its coming together, you're on the home stretch with the roof on.

I did the start of my Cabinetmaking Trade in Caboolture, back in the mid 90's... that area has changed a fair bit, must be a nice change down were you are now.

[Superbunny]

We started the sandstone and slate cladding just before Xmas and now starting to make progress up the wall but a long way to go yet. All best of the season to you all.

SB

[rwbuild]

Any chance of a close up photo of how the sandstone is fixed with the metal clips please

[Superbunny]

Any chance of a close up photo of how the sandstone is fixed with the metal clips please

Made good progress this week and about a third completed all around. The hold up is cutting around the windows and putting in sills. rebuild, one photo shows the clips and joiners, I don't want to look like I'm promoting this cladding product as they have asked me to be a technical rep for them after I've completed my installation. It's quite new to Australia and no one has done their own cladding installation yet so basically I'll be the most experienced with this cladding product. Anyhow, this build thread is about my house build and not the cladding product but I'm happy to show what I've chosen to put on my new house build.

SB

[Cal]

Can I ask about the sandstone cladding? What is the substrate? how does it mount at floor level? The product looks as though it interlocks with itself, do the joints get sealed up? Looks great by the way!

[dazzler]

And for those folk who prefer to produce most of their own power but would for one reason or another prefer to remain on the grid, and are dictated to by the various power companies about how much power they can feed back into the grid (of which I think is an obscenity) would a class action be out of the question?

My brother manages an electrical grid system and says they don't want our power. We feed in during the day when the demand is low and then don't feed in when the sun goes down and demand goes up.

I see his point. Why buy it from us when they don't need it?




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[Superbunny]

Can I ask about the sandstone cladding? What is the substrate? how does it mount at floor level? The product looks as though it interlocks with itself, do the joints get sealed up? Looks great by the way!

Well hard day's work but my wife and I are getting to the end of the main building now with one of the two last gables completed. This is easy, it's the going up and down the scaffolding and cutting in that takes time and effort. The scaffolding is costing $400/week and its been two months up now (how come it's more expensive for scaffolding per week than I can rent a house with furniture for less in Launceston for my wife and I). I'd say a couple more weeks and it can come down I hope. In my next post I hope to show the evacuated tubes and thermosiphon hot water system to the wood burner and if your lucky maybe the frames for the solar panels that will power us off grid.

Cal, I'm happy to answer your questions but I don't want to be seen to promote a product that I have some connection with in that SmartStone have asked me to be there technical advisor for Tasmania as I'm the only one that has done their own installation. So that declared, it is sandstone bonded to a polystyrene backing but it is not just plane polystyrene. The stone, and it comes in many choices, is about 8-12mm thick. You can see how it all goes together in their videos on their web page. It is ment to be for owner builders as well as builders to give the look and feel of real stone without the waste of a complete block of stone at an affordable price. It has an R2.5 insulation rating and is about 65-80mm thick. With batts in the framework you end up with an R insulation rating of over 6. To start the wall fit up, a special starting angle strip with built in weep holes is used. It is bonded with silicon sealant between the blocks with clips and joiners to the studs of the building framework. I am an owner builder and have never done this type of work before, so it's straight forward as far as I can see. They put the product together based on your house plans with all you need to complete the job. This is a relatively new product to Australia but is being used in the US now. I think it is now best if you go to their web site and watch the videos.

Now, sorry for the product promotion, I will attempt not to promote the cladding any further as this thread is about my rural block and what I'm doing in Tasmania. Secondly, I had started this blog long before I had any idea of what cladding I was going to use and no expectation of being asked to consult from time to time with other buyers of the cladding.

SB

[ian]

SB
this is not about the sandstone cladding per see, but the building itself.

around here, a frame like yours would be sheeted with OSB, covered with a vinyl wrap and then have the cladding attached.
wall insulation -- possibly ridgid PVC foam -- would be installed between the OSB and internal plaster board.

for your house, how is the insulation and waterproofing membranes arranged?



BTW
if you were to go over the cladding with a scrabbling hammer, people would want to heritage list your place.

[Cal]

Thanks for the info (without promoting it) love the build, looks fantastic!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Superbunny]

SB
this is not about the sandstone cladding per see, but the building itself.

around here, a frame like yours would be sheeted with OSB, covered with a vinyl wrap and then have the cladding attached.
wall insulation -- possibly ridgid PVC foam -- would be installed between the OSB and internal plaster board.

for your house, how is the insulation and waterproofing membranes arranged?



BTW
if you were to go over the cladding with a scrabbling hammer, people would want to heritage list your place.

Ian, over here the usual methods of build is internal jiprock (plaster board), timber frame with batts followed by a breathable insulation wrap and finally an external cladding of your choosing which could be any weatherproof material that meets the Building Code of Australia (BCA). Many houses are also built from concrete blocks, double brick, but the timber frame construction is the most common. Ridged PVC foam is not that common and OSB is used only where bracing of the frame is required. I'm sure other methods can and are used but they must comply with the BCA standards. Anything can be used if if it meets the BCA as a minimum and some materials are deemed as meeting the standards where others may require evidence or engineer certified as meeting the standard, and they can be different from state to state to accommodate different weather and vermin conditions such as termite treatment is not required in Tasmania but is compulsory in other states. Here we don't have the cold like Canada hence no requirement for double glazing windows but we have a Bush Fire Attack level as we can have horrific bush fires that do often turn deadly. Hope this helps you understand the differences between Canada and Australia.

[ian]

Thanks SB
I asked because although you commented


[the stone cladding] has an R2.5 insulation rating and is about 65-80mm thick. With batts in the framework you end up with an R insulation rating of over 6. but compared to local building codes, your new house will leak heat like a sieve.

but then again, it's -23 outside today at 1:00PM, which is a mite cooler than Tassie will ever get. :)

[Oldneweng]

Regarding the photos not uploading in the correct orientation, I suspect it has something to do with Auto Rotation. Turn this off or maybe just take pictures with the I Thingy held in its normal orientation. Personally I think it looks wacky seeing someone taking a picture with one of those. Why people don't just buy a real camera escapes me. I have a refurbished 16M Kodak compact that would beat the pants off any I-Thing and it cost me $64. I also have a 24M DSLR, but that is another thing entirely.

Dean

[Superbunny]

Well here we are again, the scaffolding comes down tomorrow, thank the leprechauns. As I said here is my evacuated tube hot water system and it's working very well indeed. I have had it up a week now and after 1 day up with cloud it was hot with some 300lt to heat up. After 2 days it was hot to burn you no problems, glad that the bathroom water supply system had a tempering valve on it to bring the temperature down to about 50 degrees. The pipes on the right go down to the wood burner to help heat water in winter through the thermosiphon action. Remember, you don't get the water that is heated in the tank, you get the water that goes through 35m of copper pipe that runs through the hot water in the tank that heats up as it runs to your taps. No electricity, no gass, all just sunlight and a pump at the water tank 30m away. Except for the pluming to the house system it's an easy job to put up your self and install the tubes, about half a day. I could of done the house system myself but being a new build the pluming has to be signed off by the plumber and council.

SB

[Superbunny]

Hi guys, as I said I will let you in on the off grid solar power system I am installing to run the house and workshop. My wife and I just installed the solar panel pole mount system on one of our embankments. There are only three required for 24 solar panels to give about 8kw of power. Yes, the mounts can tilt and move left and right to get the best sun and as you can see easy to clean if need. We are going the LG neons in solar panels and hope to have them in in about three weeks time.

SB

[Cal]

Looks good! What battery system have you gone for?


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[Superbunny]

[QUOTE=Cal;2018556]Looks good! What battery system have you gone for?

Cal, I'm keeping my options open for now but I think I'm going for 2 LG Chem RESU 10kw units with Schneider electronics with a 6.5kw Honda generator for backup. My installer is talking about gel batteries but I've had my eye on the LG chems for sometime now, I know people who have them are very happy so far but still early days in the technology. The whole set up has been designed for winter conditions to get the best out of it, that's why solar hot water with thermosiphon wood burner and gas cooking and double insulation of the whole house along with two door entry into the main building. Hope it all works out.

SB

[Mick C.]

As far as batteries go, did you ever look into a flow battery like the Redflow? After the 10 year (or there abouts) design life of the stack, the stack can be easily and relatively cheaply replaced for another go.

I also just very recently saw and read some stuff on the Sonnen Batteries, i think they use cells made by Sony but taylored to their spec, and have what looks to be a very long design life, something like 10year 100% capacity guarantee and an expected 20 year usable life.

Then there's brine/saltwater batteries, which seem good but I've not seen a great deal about them.

Just throwing a few other thoughts out there and curious if you have any feedback on some of them.

[Superbunny]

As far as batteries go, did you ever look into a flow battery like the Redflow? After the 10 year (or there abouts) design life of the stack, the stack can be easily and relatively cheaply replaced for another go.

I also just very recently saw and read some stuff on the Sonnen Batteries, i think they use cells made by Sony but taylored to their spec, and have what looks to be a very long design life, something like 10year 100% capacity guarantee and an expected 20 year usable life.

Then there's brine/saltwater batteries, which seem good but I've not seen a great deal about them.

Just throwing a few other thoughts out there and curious if you have any feedback on some of them.

Thanks for the info mick, but I'm in two camps right now as I'm still not 100% set on LG chems. My installer is very knowledgeable with off grid and has a very good reputation in Tassie. For simplicity sake he is pushing me to gel batteries that he knows will go the distance with little trouble. He is an LG supplier in Tassie so is not trying to put me off, he just thinks the hardware to run and manage them in an off grid instal is just not there yet. It's more than just the batteries to this off grid stuff and not all the gear is compatible or without its problems.

SB

[Superbunny]

Energy is now on, Yes folks we have off grid power. It's working nicely over the last week and the wife can't be happier. Went with 24, 330watt LG pv and 24 gel BAE 1500 wh batteries all hooked up to Victron hardware of 2 x MPPT chargers, BMS and Inverter. The batteries are fully recharged by 9:30am each morning after overnight use of about 3% drain. This is running fridge, lights, pvr, tv, cooking dinner, and three of cups of tea and crumpets. We are expecting higher use but not much more when we get into the house due to more lights and a larger tv. We are getting the best solar for Northeast Tasmania with the pole mounted panels as we can elevate up to 40 degrees for winter sun and angle left and right to get the best of the sun travel during the day. It cost about $47 000 all up. We are not interested in ROI as we we would have had significant costs to get the grid connected underground from about 150m away and then keep paying and paying and paying etc.

SB

[bryn23]

Keep everyone up to date with how it pans out, once the batteries are settled and you are in there using more kW.

the pole mount system is great that you can change the angle to suit the winter sun path.

It must be getting cold down there at the moment, are you heating with fireplace and a wet back for hot water?

[Big Shed]

What is the life expectancy of the battery bank?

$47000 is a fair wad of money on which of course you are foregoing a minimum of $1400pa in lost interest, so there is an ongoing cost there.

Great concept though to be independent of the grid:2tsup:

[Superbunny]

Keep everyone up to date with how it pans out, once the batteries are settled and you are in there using more kW.

the pole mount system is great that you can change the angle to suit the winter sun path.

It must be getting cold down there at the moment, are you heating with fireplace and a wet back for hot water?

yep, getting cold down here alright, the other night it was -3 they say but nice sunny days. The house will be heated by wood burner which will heat the hot water in winter bryn23 as this was planned from the beginning.

Yes, your right big shed, I'm forgoing interest but I'd then have to pay tax on it, at some point you have to stop talking and put your money down, if I spent it on the grid I'd get nothing back or purchased a car or something. The batteries are rated to last about 20 years just like Sungel are by the CSIRO. If I'd gone LG Chem as I planned to, I'd only be about 5-6 thousand better off and with a very complex BMS and associated electronics. As my installer said keep it simple with proven technology we don't want a 5 cent resistor to bring the lot down. My next door has lithium batteries and he's happy but only 3 years in at this stage, however, in my area we have houses on wet cell that have been at it for the last 20 odd years with no problems, some with a small wind turbine as well.

SB

[KBs PensNmore]

$47000 is a fair wad of money on which of course you are foregoing a minimum of $1400pa in lost interest, so there is an ongoing cost there.

The cost of the setting up, would probably equal the cost of connection to the grid. It might be lost interest, but he'd be looking at more than that amount plus each year for being on the grid, plus interruptions, also the rising cost of electricity each year. I'd say that after about 20 years they would be in front.
Kryn

[HUON]

I may have missed this bit on an earlier post, SB. Are those batteries 2 volts? 48volt system? If so same as mine, there's plenty of juice to run your household and some heavy duty machinery (not 3 phase).
Just thinking after looking at your battery box,you might want to put some fly wire over the ventilation holes. Otherwise you'll end up with dead bats and mice in there with your batteries and the smell that goes with it.

[Chris Parks]

Energy is now on, Yes folks we have off grid power. It's working nicely over the last week and the wife can't be happier. Went with 24, 330watt LG pv and 24 gel BAE 1500 wh batteries all hooked up to Victron hardware of 2 x MPPT chargers, BMS and Inverter.

SB, can you link to the batteries you used if possible, I have done the search but your specs don't seem to line up with what I can find. I am putting in an 8kw system now and holding off putting batteries in at this time. I would prefer to not export to the grid if it is possible, have you got a monitoring system on your set up that holds historical data not just real time data? I have discovered during this saga that the solar industry has got more shonks in it than the automotive industry and that is a very high hurdle to beat.

[Oldneweng]

Are those batteries 2 volts? 48volt system? If so same as mine, there's plenty of juice to run your household and some heavy duty machinery (not 3 phase).


Why not 3 phase?

Dean

[HUON]

G'day Dean, not enough storage. And I'm happy enough running 2 & 3 hp machinery along with everything else.
Gee, what did I do to become a golden member?

[HUON]

Dean, I'll get in touch with my friends at sunreal and get the technical info on what is required to boost my system to 3 phase.
Tomorrow I should have a more informed explanation for you.

[Oldneweng]

I would eventually like to have an off grid solar system and 3 phase would be nice, but in the meantime I have a 7.5hp 3ph metal lathe running on a VFD at 240v. I generally only see 4-6 Amps consumption. I have an amp meter on the VFD control box to monitor it.

Dean

[woodPixel]

I can see a day when ordinary people will have suplimenary battery packs under the house that will provide a pretty good chunk of daily power first, rather than drawing it from a grid.

In January, the guy that installed my aircon said that just three or four panels on the roof would run it full-bore on hot days outright. Add a few batteries and it will do winters too.

Makes one think.

Enjoying your thread SB.

[Chris Parks]

I can see a day when ordinary people will have suplimenary battery packs under the house that will provide a pretty good chunk of daily power first, rather than drawing it from a grid.

In January, the guy that installed my aircon said that just three or four panels on the roof would run it full-bore on hot days outright. Add a few batteries and it will do winters too.

Makes one think.

Enjoying your thread SB.

That's a combination of AC being more power consumption efficient and PV cells getting better. I think it will be mandatory to put them on every new house like water tanks are now. During this exercise of putting on solar power everyone I speak to says the price of batteries is going to fall in the next year or so.

[HUON]

Dean, to boost to three phase I would need 3 x 7.5kw inverters in sync and probably a bigger bank of batteries. At Mt Stirling a stand alone three phase system has been installed (3x 7.5kw inverters and a 120volt battery bank and a large water turbine with 80 mt of head).
My power supply comes from a micro hydro turbine and solar panels and a 10 kva generator for emergencies, ie; charging batteries when there is no sun or water due to a combination of drought and bushfires(lot's of smoke).

[Bohdan]

Or just get a VFD.

[Big Shed]

This thread has gone seriously off-topic, I am sure SB would appreciate it if it could somehow get back to his build and his off grid system.

Off topic posts hav been moved here, as they all were basically on that subject

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f117/klutz-questions-voip-handset-nbn-modem-choices-215224

Further off topic posts will be deleted.

[Superbunny]

Yes HOUN, they are 2volt connected to make 48volt as 48volt is the way to go. The guys are coming back to cover the vents as they left them back at their store.

Chris, I don't have a link for the batteries, they were supplied by my installer and I can only tell you what they have written on them. You could contact DMS the installer in Tasmania and they might send you a specification sheet for you as they are very helpful. Yes, my system has historical data retention in the Victron colour screen readout and in the MPPT chargers that make up the total system, you can also have an internet module installed to send you data to your phone or computer but it is extra so I did not have it. I plan to monitor the system manually rather than become a power geek that checks it every other minute as I don't want power use to rule my life like some I know on the net. You could have the screen in your house as it takes a cat5 cable.

SB
ps, I have no interests in DMS or Victron of any kind.

[Chris Parks]

Energy is now on, Yes folks we have off grid power. It's working nicely over the last week and the wife can't be happier. Went with 24, 330watt LG pv and 24 gel BAE 1500 wh batteries

I can't find a battery rated in WH thus my question, they are all rated in AH. I am putting the monitoring in to assess what size batteries we are going to need and if changes are made in the house such as appliances etc we can see what effect the changes had. I don't think the monitoring even needs reading, it just happens and it can be read at any time in the future.

[Bohdan]

I can't find a battery rated in WH thus my question, they are all rated in AH.

Batteries are normally rated in AH because they are a particular voltage but because it is changed to another voltage by the inverter for solar applications it is more convenient to use WH.

Multiply the AH by the individual battery voltage and you have the WH.

[Superbunny]

Thanks big shed fo getting the thread back on track.

I'm about to start on the wet areas, that is the bathrooms that are upstairs. The main thing here is that under the building code, Tasmania permits anyone to waterproof wet areas and no registered installers are required. I have two bathrooms and one toilet to do. The building code says bathrooms and toilets that are above the ground floor must be waterproofed. As I'm putting in pre-moulded shower bases I will require two council inspections. The first is for sealing the floor area and the second is for after I have put in the shower and connected up and sealed all floor services. My wife and I have just finished putting in the cement sheeting for the floor and walls as you can see in the photos. The first photo shows the shower area without the bases and walls waiting for joint sealant etc.

SB