Paulownia Trees / Fire Break ?

[auscab]

Hi,
Im thinking of a move to the country and am looking at building a workshop in what is now a paddock, surrounded by native bush .

I was thinking of planting Paulownia trees around the workshop for the shade and it would be nice to see a fast growing plant that should do well in the well draining black sandy soil .

I just want to know if Paulownia's would be good as a fire break as well ?

I would think that they don't have the volatile oils that our gum trees and pine trees have.

Any one know ?

Rob

[Toymaker Len]

Victoria... I would do a mixed plant... black walnut, oak, almond, elm, maybe beech, claret ash, liquid amber. They mightn't grow as quickly as pawlonia but they will be a hell of a lot more use in the future. Maybe pawlonia as well and I am sure that any of the above are a lot more fire resistant than gums or pines.(especially if you put in a big dam and a big fire pump and soak the trees if a fire is coming) anyway good luck with the move.

[auscab]

Yes , I know what you mean . Nice useful timbers and beautiful trees. Not fast enough in the growth though .
I sat under a mates Paulownia years ago , it got BIG quick !! lovely shade as well . I just want to know if a fire would catch in the canopy and tear through it. I would think not . I'm sort of thinking of 20 / 25 meters deep off the building in trees then a fence to keep them cows out . I haven't committed to the move yet , I am keen though.

Rob

[Toymaker Len]

I get it, first the paulownia trees for the shade and to condition the soil then a leisurely and thoughtful planting of better trees over the years which will then shoot up through the paulownia and be beautiful straight tall trees when the paulownia are taken down. PS forgot acacia melanoxalin- tas blackwood thrives in victoria.

[whitewood]

I get it, first the paulownia trees for the shade and to condition the soil then a leisurely and thoughtful planting of better trees over the years which will then shoot up through the paulownia and be beautiful straight tall trees when the paulownia are taken down. PS forgot acacia melanoxalin- tas blackwood thrives in victoria.

Len,

Pailownia are a fast growing tree and being deciduous will give plenty of shade for the summer. They have a large crown and if space 7 metres apart they will touch each other. The leaves are large and will clog your gutter in autium unless you take precautions. The trees will out grow most othe species and you will have difficulty getting other species to grow well if they are amongst the Paulownia. The root system is extensive but shallow. Given their size and the level of foliage I doubt they would condition the adjacent soil. Commercial growers fertilize the trees on a gerular basis to get the growth.

Whitewood

[HUON]

Trees are not fire breaks,when the hot northerlies are up and the humidity is way down water is you defence, water that comes out of a fire fighting appliance !!

[auscab]

Trees are not fire breaks,when the hot northerlies are up and the humidity is way down water is you defence, water that comes out of a fire fighting appliance !!


Go read a bit more ----------------- :(( Edit, 11.48 pm, Profanities deleted .

https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=hm-oVIyZIcqN8Qf7pYGQCg&gws_rd=ssl#q=trees+as+fire+break

[auscab]

http://www.smalltreefarm.com.au/about-retardants.pdf

[HUON]

I've been involved fighting bushfires long enough to know that any tree will burn under extreme conditions, if you think you have a fire retardant break in the form of trees then good luck. As far as I'm concerned it's a false sense of security and auscab feel free to abuse me all you like. Water of a ducks back.

[Pearo]

I've been involved fighting bushfires long enough to know that any tree will burn under extreme conditions, if you think you have a fire retardant break in the form of trees then good luck. As far as I'm concerned it's a false sense of security and auscab feel free to abuse me all you like. Water of a ducks back.

I am with you on this one. If you have ever experienced the ferocity of a real bushfire you know that nothing will stop them.

[auscab]

I've been involved fighting bushfires long enough to know that any tree will burn under extreme conditions, if you think you have a fire retardant break in the form of trees then good luck. As far as I'm concerned it's a false sense of security and auscab feel free to abuse me all you like. Water of a ducks back.


If I am not there to fight the fire and am sitting in a safe area away from the fire, I think I would feel better knowing my workshop and house had a better chance of surviving with plantings of less flammable material deep around the perimeter.

If a fire is coming at all that I own, I wont be sitting there feeling secure , so I wont have any false senses on the day , don't try and make me sound like an idiot Huon . I will be deeply worried about the people I love and hope they are safe. Who sits around feeling falsely secure in that situation ?

I'm looking for helpful opinions. I have been learning that deciduous trees are a good idea. I just have not come across info of the Paulownia , which I like the sound of because it's fast growing and I have seen them before. It sounds like just the one species may not be the go either . ember catching less flammable shrubs sounds like a good idea as well.

The tall bush is mostly about 2 to 300 meters away and its just the strips of bush either sides of the road , it's not many kilometers of bush leading up to me, it is many kilometers of crops , Grass for cows mainly . I know grass fires are bad but I would think they are not as bad as a Eucalyptus Forrest going up in flames in front of you and killing things at 300 meters distance from radiant heat.

[HUON]

Auscab if you think I was trying to make you look like an idiot then you have my sincere apologies. Over the years we've set ourselves up with a number of fire fighting capabilities; ie a 1000lt tank on a trailer which has a fire fighting pump on the back, a 500lt slipon unit that sits on the back of a 4wd landcruiser tray, a fire fighting pump connected to the dam which feeds 3 firefighting outlets around the house and one around the shed and then we have an 11,000 gal tank which gravity feeds sprinklers around the garden.All that said, if you saw our garden you would probably sh-t yourself if you thought a fire was in the area. But that's the price we pay for the absolute joy we get out of watching the birdlife and wildlife making their home next door to our home.
In other words we wont be leaving our property because a fire is heading our way, we feel we are sufficiently prepared for a defence of our property.

[OldGrain]

I like the paulownia tree idea Huon & wish my fully treed 30 acres in Qld had them as they are magnificent. Having said that i`m very aware of past fires that have gone through my area through the years.Would these trees help as a firebreak? I don`t know.Ideally i would need to sink a dam to provide some assistance.I don`t have any dwellings on the acres yet.But i will definately look into clearings/water later on.

http://www.paulowniatrees.com.au/ (http://www.paulowniatrees.com.au/)

[HUON]

Don't get me wrong, I love trees and plants in general. You only have to go to the gardening section of this forum to see what I mean. All I'm saying is that trees are not a fire break, they are not fire retardant. Everything will burn when the conditions are right for a bushfire. I've nothing more to say on this matter so I wont waste your time anymore.

[auscab]

The view of Huon's birdlife after a fire, when the conditions are right, with natives right up to his door.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=cooked+chickens&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=A4YCVeHbO-HJmAXR5YCoDQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1440&bih=740

[lightwood]

The view of Huon's birdlife after a fire, when the conditions are right, with natives right up to his door.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=cooked+chickens&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=A4YCVeHbO-HJmAXR5YCoDQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1440&bih=740

Rob,
:U:U:U

Seriously though....
I was driven into see my stepson and his family on the weekend following Black Saturday.
Ninks Road, St. Andrews.
A roughly south west - north east running dead end road, in the direct line of that fire storm.
I was able to sit and listen to the de-brief by the NSW fire investigators as the family told the story of their defense of their property, and the others in the street that were saved.
I know this for a fact ... we have family alive today because of deciduous tree and shrub plantings. Anyone who says otherwise, is just not well informed.
That day, just a week after the fire I walked a couple of kilometers along Ninks Road, a grey moonscape. Then walked around two of the green patches where the inhabitants of that road found refuge.
Not a single life was lost in that road.

It is best described like this... I've counted 7 things needed to be absolutely right on that day for the residents of that road to survive.
One of those factors was the tree and shrub plantings. If they weren't there, it is almost certain that over 25 more names would be on that list of 170+ who lost their lives.

On our block on the Mornington Pen, in the first few months after moving here we arranged a visit from the CFA rep, and got all the current best information.
The bloke who came told us he used to be a nurseryman. I will dig out his contact details and pass them on to you later.
He was strongly advocating certain types of tree and shrub planting.

One publication that might interest you is ...
http://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/plan-prepare/landscaping-for-bushfire/
Any attempt to discourage you from investigating the proper vegetation to choose, and how you design your block, with blanket statements like those I read above are more than just foolish. They are uninformed and dangerous.
There is PLENTY you can do to help yourself in choosing the proper tree plantings, and making yourself aware of the factors that influence the choice is very well set out in the publication above.

I also would encourage anyone who plans to stay and defend, to have a chat with at least half a dozen of those who have actually done it.
Find out what the physical and emotional ramifications have been. It can be pretty devastating. Even for those with supreme confidence in their capabilities, and with all types of great equipment. I know some who have done it, and I know what the results are in the years following.

Hopefully more people can understand what is likely to happen to them in the years after, and they change their Fire Plan to prepare the property as best they can financially afford to do, and do what they can physically do to it...then leave early.

Good Luck with your new block.
Cheers,
Peter

[auscab]

Thanks Pete , for a great helpful post .
Of course :doh: , Im asking for info in the wrong place, aren't I.
Its worked though , this new direction has come from it.
The link to the CFA is the obvious place to look , I hadn't thought of them as recommending vegetation.

The Black Saturday memories and the weeks that followed bring tears every time.Every time .
I don't mind that , it makes me wonder what good the emotion grief is .
My Nephew survived the day, sheltered by the CFA at Kinglake.

what comes to mind is the words

Lest we forget

[lightwood]

Thanks Pete , for a great helpful post .
Of course :doh: , Im asking for info in the wrong place, aren't I.
Its worked though , this new direction has come from it.

Rob,
happy to help.
I just remembered another great source of info.
Got an email last week from a mate in Tassie...recently retired "Forestry Tasmania, Head of Fire Management".
Very keep Preston Tool collector, boat builder, general good guy.
I'll ask him about the Paulownia.
A few Years ago he came over, and with RayG, Josh and a few others we had a saw making day and "handtool guy" get together at my place.
What a day....should have another of them one day.

Cheers,
Peter

[Graemela]

I have planted pawlonia on river flats west of taree and well as silky oaks. A fire went through a few years back and the area of silky oaks and pawlonia were not as effected as the fire stuck where eucalyptus leaves were on the ground. I have a 50 acre eucalyptus plantation which had minor damage. Nothing will stop a savage fire but silky oaks and pawlonia seemed to slow down and hinder undercover fires. A eucalypt 5 metres from a silky oak burnt out while the silky was untouched.

[auscab]

Almost been three years since I first posted this . It's gone quick! I'm now sitting in a lounge room looking out over paddocks and bush . My city life has ended ! Thank bldy goodness !!
I ended up building the workshop where all the other hay sheds and work area was , which is nestled in amongst some native bush . I've had to push or cut some of that back to make room and make it safer in case of fire . Funnily enough though I just pulled out the packet of Paulownia seed three days ago and about 30 were put in a jar of water and left on the kitchen window sill. No action yet . Hope to see some soon . I've got enough seed for a 30 acre forest I think . Not that I'll be going that big . Wouldn't mind doing some around the workshop still . And trying a round group of ten or twenty as a shelter from the sun for animals . We have cows and patches of trees in a nice low moist spot down in one paddock and it's nice to see how cattle enjoy sitting around under some shelter in the shade on hot days . Totally bare paddocks except for grass seem a bit unfair . The poor things are giving there bodies up for milk or meat so a bit of comfort for them seems like a nice thing to do .
Rob

[dubrosa22]

Paulownia's are indeed superfast growing with big, mushy leaves. The wood is like a sponge. Very, very soft.
We had two in our backyard each around 10-15 years old but their roots were quite invasive (shooting new trees eventually) around our pool, fenceline and into the neighbours properties.
Because the wood is so soft winds break off large branches quite often and after a really big branch fell into the backyard children's playarea without warning we removed them (very easy to fell with an axe - took all of 3 minutes!).
Lovely trees but a pain in the neck really (I didn't even mention sweeping up thousands of A4 sized dead leaves every Autumn!)

V

Edit:
You may want to doublecheck that these trees are suitable for cattle ie. not poisonous, but you've probably already done that...

[auscab]

Edit:
You may want to doublecheck that these trees are suitable for cattle ie. not poisonous, but you've probably already done that...

We do get very strong winds so they may not work . They are good with cattle though . Apparently the cows love it so any off shoots not fenced will get eaten quickly I think . The tree is promoted as a stock feed of sorts. I don't know much about that, but I read somewhere of comparisons in nutrition to other things .