My new toy, Deckel FP1

[thorens]

here you go guys. the table seem to be from another Machine but the good thing is , it in very good condition so i'm quite happy about that .however there is an issue with the power feed lever . can some other Deckel onwer help me on this . when i got the machine the lever already detached from it location and the rod that attached to the feed box also detached . i need some details to put it back together . the hand wheel and the round dial is missing and the owner put in a diffrent hand wheel .so i have to do this as well , i hope some one have a spare of this parts that i can buy .
i'm thinking wire the motor to Delta and run VFD .
cheers
Peter
PS: special thanks to Phil and Ray for helping me with all the parts put together .

[Anorak Bob]

Beautiful machine Peter! Worth the wait.

The original table is a four slotter, that extra slot won't go astray but may cause a problem if the slots don't share the original's spacing. And that is only if any of the numerous accessories require two slot fixing. The table looks to be in good nick as does the mill. I'm sure you have poured over every FP1 photo there is online.http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/standard/biggrin.gif For others that may be interested here's a photo of the Deutsches Museum's FP1 showing the table - http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=159285&p=1554315#post1554315

Glen Murphy "BrianLara" has a Riken, a Japanese copy of the FP1. Glen may have knowledge of the power feed. Glen spends time on the Gunsmithing forum. Sadly our resident Deckel expert, Gregory Q, only makes the occasional cameo appearance these days. He might respond to a PM.

Bob.

[thorens]

Beautiful machine Peter! Worth the wait.

The original table is a four slotter, that extra slot won't go astray but may cause a problem if the slots don't share the original's spacing. And that is only if any of the numerous accessories require two slot fixing. The table looks to be in good nick as does the mill. I'm sure you have poured over every FP1 photo there is online.http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/standard/biggrin.gif For others that may be interested here's a photo of the Deutsches Museum's FP1 showing the table - http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=159285&p=1554315#post1554315

Glen Murphy "BrianLara" has a Riken, a Japanese copy of the FP1. Glen may have knowledge of the power feed. Glen spends time on the Gunsmithing forum. Sadly our resident Deckel expert, Gregory Q, only makes the occasional cameo appearance these days. He might respond to a PM.

Bob.

thank you Bob.
the table that came with this machine is definately Deckel origin however I don't know which model deckel this table might come from .
i'm now more interested to get the power feed machizime back to where it should . i know there is feel FP1 owner in our Forum so this will be mybig opportunity to get help .

Cheers
Peter

[variant22]

Peter, I have an FP2. I would first check the shear pin. Make sure it is not broken as it stops the feed in the case of a crash. I can check the FP1 manual later and get back to you regarding the mechanism. You could look it up over on PM in the Deckel zone. There would likely be photos of the feed setup over there.

[thorens]

Peter, I have an FP2. I would first check the shear pin. Make sure it is not broken as it stops the feed in the case of a crash. I can check the FP1 manual later and get back to you regarding the mechanism. You could look it up over on PM in the Deckel zone. There would likely be photos of the feed setup over there.

Thanks .
yes please look up for me the feed mechnism setup . i don't really know where the shear pin located. may be it broken , the lever now have no click affect at all when try to engage feed .i took the photo under the feed mechanism , it in in the last couple photos above .
i will have to registered on the deckel forum to see if there is photos of the feed set up
regards
Peter

[Diomedes]

I took some photos last time I took my FP1 apart. https://hyllest.wordpress.com/2012/11/04/pulling-apart-a-deckel-fp1/

The last two photos show the shear pins in the feed mechanism.


I just went outside and snapped a shot of that link arm on mine. Hope it's useful.
341248

With regard to the VSD, I found that I couldn't get the original motor to work. Wiring it in delta didn't seem to help- I suspect it's because it's a two speed motor and it runs star at one speed and delta in another... Or maybe I just need to go back to electron school.

In the end I just slapped on another 3ph motor I had lying around and ran that off the VSD. I bypassed the switch on the machine and replaced it with a mount for my VSD.

[thorens]

I took some photos last time I took my FP1 apart. https://hyllest.wordpress.com/2012/11/04/pulling-apart-a-deckel-fp1/

The last two photos show the shear pins in the feed mechanism.


I just went outside and snapped a shot of that link arm on mine. Hope it's useful.
341248

With regard to the VSD, I found that I couldn't get the original motor to work. Wiring it in delta didn't seem to help- I suspect it's because it's a two speed motor and it runs star at one speed and delta in another... Or maybe I just need to go back to electron school.

In the end I just slapped on another 3ph motor I had lying around and ran that off the VSD. I bypassed the switch on the machine and replaced it with a mount for my VSD.

Thanks Buddy .
so the link arm end used some kind of screw ? i thought it was a shear pin :) mine is missing so i need to find a suitable screw for that one. can you help me take a shot on the feed box ? i think there should be a pin there to stop the lever end bar to go freely ?
i need the photos under that lever box.
cheers
Peter

[morrisman]

Was that from the Auction at West Heidelberg ? Held last week . They had a lot of high quality machinery

[Diomedes]

Thanks Buddy .
so the link arm end used some kind of screw ? i thought it was a shear pin :) mine is missing so i need to find a suitable screw for that one. can you help me take a shot on the feed box ? i think there should be a pin there to stop the lever end bar to go freely ?
i need the photos under that lever box.
cheers
Peter


Do you mean the other end? Like this?

341257

[thorens]

Do you mean the other end? Like this?

341257

thanks.
yes that end but i need a shot underneath that where it shows some mechanism of the lever above
regards
Peter

[thorens]

Was that from the Auction at West Heidelberg ? Held last week . They had a lot of high quality machinery

yep that is it.
Peter

[variant22]

Was that from the Auction at West Heidelberg ? Held last week . They had a lot of high quality machinery
Mike: Anything in particular that you liked?


Peter: Careful with the shear pin. They are made out of a specific grade of steel that readily breaks in the event of an accident. If you make your own and pick the wrong material you could destroy your gear train if you have a crash. I would buy 10 of them from Franz Singer. I got them for my FP2 from him and they were cheap - certainly not worth the risk given the miniscule cost.

See the following images from the FP1 parts manuals. Note that the first image (only shows the feed mechanism) is from a later FP1. The second image is from an earlier FP1 like yours. The third image is the FP1 shear pin detail from the manual.

341306 341307 341308

[variant22]

Another thing I should probably mention is that my FP2 only feeds when running forwards. The FP1 may well be the same. So if you are accidentally running the motor or turning the spindle in reverse then it may not feed (by design).

[WCD]

Another thing I should probably mention is that my FP2 only feeds when running forwards. The FP1 may well be the same. So if you are accidentally running the motor or turning the spindle in reverse then it may not feed (by design).

That does apply to the FP1.

Peter,
It looks as if there has been a problem with the feeds and someone has uncoupled the external linkages in the mistaken belief that is the place to start looking for a solution. You can easily test the feeds by manually operating the feed levers on the saddle (ie the ones that would be moved if the linkages were in place). They will be quite hard to move by hand, but should click into engagement (you may have to turn the feed handwheels a bit to line up the internal dog clutches so the feeds can engage). If the feeds do not work, the most likely explanation is that the shear pin is broken. If you make another shear pin yourself be sure (as mentioned) to use soft steel, and make sure the shear pin does not extent through to the other side. It must be only in single shear - not double shear.

Your FP1 looks to be in nice condition, and hopefully the saddle has been lubricated with oil, not grease!

Re the motor, there was a thread somewhere in which the possibility of rewiring these pole changing motors to a 'double delta' configuration for 240V was explored, but I was not that adventurous. Also I wanted to keep the original face-mount Siemens motor, so had my FP1 motor rewound to 240v and am now finalising the VFD setup.
With a foot mounted motor as on your FP1 the easy way is to get a standard foot-mounted 3 phase motor (preferably running at the same speed as the low speed of your original motor), wire the motor in delta, and use the VFD to give you the high motor speed when needed.

Enjoy!
Cheers,
Bill

[thorens]

That does apply to the FP1.

Peter,
It looks as if there has been a problem with the feeds and someone has uncoupled the external linkages in the mistaken belief that is the place to start looking for a solution. You can easily test the feeds by manually operating the feed levers on the saddle (ie the ones that would be moved if the linkages were in place). They will be quite hard to move by hand, but should click into engagement (you may have to turn the feed handwheels a bit to line up the internal dog clutches so the feeds can engage). If the feeds do not work, the most likely explanation is that the shear pin is broken. If you make another shear pin yourself be sure (as mentioned) to use soft steel, and make sure the shear pin does not extent through to the other side. It must be only in single shear - not double shear.

Your FP1 looks to be in nice condition, and hopefully the saddle has been lubricated with oil, not grease!

Re the motor, there was a thread somewhere in which the possibility of rewiring these pole changing motors to a 'double delta' configuration for 240V was explored, but I was not that adventurous. Also I wanted to keep the original face-mount Siemens motor, so had my FP1 motor rewound to 240v and am now finalising the VFD setup.
With a foot mounted motor as on your FP1 the easy way is to get a standard foot-mounted 3 phase motor (preferably running at the same speed as the low speed of your original motor), wire the motor in delta, and use the VFD to give you the high motor speed when needed.

Enjoy!
Cheers,
Bill

Hi Bill.
thanks. I did manually engage the feed on the saddle and it seem click in and off ok but i haven't got the hand wheel working yet so i can't test it working condition . would you able to give me a couple shots on your hand wheel see how it arranged ? also under the feed box where the lever end engage the feed ?
is the hand wheel supose to go into the threaded area ? because that is where the slotted pin is so it can hold the wheel in place ?
also what wrong with the original motor wired in Delta mod and run VFD ? i must missed something's here ?
regards
Peter

[Ueee]

Peter, most FP1's have 2 speed motors, hence the problem with wiring for 240v. Since you have already said your is only single speed then it should not be nearly so hard to wire in delta.

[thorens]

Peter, most FP1's have 2 speed motors, hence the problem with wiring for 240v. Since you have already said your is only single speed then it should not be nearly so hard to wire in delta.

Hi Ewan.
i was wrong. it is two speeds motor .
Peter

[Ueee]

Then it would be far easier to change the motor out and for a new 3 phase single speed and run it on a VFD. That would be cheaper than having the original motor re-wired.

[thorens]

Then it would be far easier to change the motor out and for a new 3 phase single speed and run it on a VFD. That would be cheaper than having the original motor re-wired.

ah.
lucky I have one 2.2kw and one 1.5kw can wire to 240v delta model .
see pictures attached. do you know this brand ? are they any good ?
Peter

[WCD]

Peter,

ABB is a huge multinational electrical manufacturer based in Zurich, with a long history in heavy electrical industry.
"Known good" would understate the case, but I expect they are now manufacturing in low labour cost countries like everyone else.

I notice your ABB motor is a four pole one (1440rpm), but suspect the FP1 motor is six pole with a slower running speed. If that is the case, you could us a smaller motor pulley on the ABB motor to get the speeds right. Just turning down the speed with the VFD would be another way to go.

My FP1 is a later model with different details around the handwheels, but I may have some data on the older models - will search the archives.
I think you are also after details of the single lever feed design at the lower end. Again mine had a design change, but I thought Variant posted an exploded diagram of that system, maybe as per your model. Let me know if you are looking for something else.

Cheers,
Bill

[RayG]

Hi Peter,

Looks like you are well on the way to getting it going.. ABB is a top brand, Asea Brown Boveri Part Swedish part Swiss, the 2.2Kw would be ideal. Providing the mounting and shaft sizes can be made to match up.

You aren't wasting any time getting it set up.. can you check what arbor you have whether it's a SK40 or a morse taper, I recall seeing buttress thread draw bars on that machine when I was talking to Dale about it.

I'll second the suggestion of getting some shear pins from Herr Franz Singer... possible the only economical thing he sells :)

Ray

[thorens]

Hi Peter,

Looks like you are well on the way to getting it going.. ABB is a top brand, Asea Brown Boveri Part Swedish part Swiss, the 2.2Kw would be ideal. Providing the mounting and shaft sizes can be made to match up.

You aren't wasting any time getting it set up.. can you check what arbor you have whether it's a SK40 or a morse taper, I recall seeing buttress thread draw bars on that machine when I was talking to Dale about it.

I'll second the suggestion of getting some shear pins from Herr Franz Singer... possible the only economical thing he sells :)

Ray

Hi Ray.
not really . it might still take awhile before i can get it running . there is problem with the powerfeed mech that I haven't got it workout yet . yeah lucky i have some of those ABB motor around which can run on 415v/240v . this enable me to run VFD . so this part seem to be ok for now :)
the machine has MT4 Arbor , i just checking manually engage the feed for Hozirontal and vertical and all seem to engage alright so i assume the shear pin is ok ?
if you ever come to Western suburb . drop in for a beer or cofee . i'd love to hear some of your advice.
i also heard Phil have two of the FP1 so i might send him an PM soon see if he got some parts I need for mine
cheers
Peter

[Greg Q]

Hi Peter...

Nice looking machne, looks like a very late version of that generation FP1.

The way to check the power feeds is to engage the axis (one at a time, although both will engage. Then turn that bakelite handwheel at the back of the machine. If there is no deeper problem the axis should remain engaged.

The shear pin lives under the little black spring clip on the lowermost feed shaft, close to the front. Turning the bakelite handwheel should turn the feed gear train which should reveal if the pin is busted. Don't use anything steel in there under motor power, but for now you can use a 1/8 pop rivet

The table is from an FP2 (sigh). The tee slot spacing is common to the FP1 as are all of the accessories like dividing head and rotary table.

Your vertical head (if morse taper 4) may be the bushing type (as opposed to the needle roller bearing type which is non trivial to overhaul. The bushing type requires frequent oiling because it is total loss. The bearing types were all SK40.

There was an active Deckel group on Practical Machinist last time I looked.

I do not have any parts left...maybe some collets. Of course there are plenty of morse 4:ER40 collet chucks available.

Take the body off the base (32mm bolts), take a handfull of anti-nausea pills and clean out all the manky gunk from the sump. Then seal it off so you don't have to ever do that again. I think stripped the body weighs <500 kg.

The control rod disconnected makes me wonder....as does the missing Z axis handwheel plus indexing wheel. Those parts are available from $inger.

Did you get all the changegears? They come in pairs with the total tooth count always 100.

Greg

[thorens]

Hi Peter...

Nice looking machne, looks like a very late version of that generation FP1.

The way to check the power feeds is to engage the axis (one at a time, although both will engage. Then turn that bakelite handwheel at the back of the machine. If there is no deeper problem the axis should remain engaged.

The shear pin lives under the little black spring clip on the lowermost feed shaft, close to the front. Turning the bakelite handwheel should turn the feed gear train which should reveal if the pin is busted. Don't use anything steel in there under motor power, but for now you can use a 1/8 pop rivet

The table is from an FP2 (sigh). The tee slot spacing is common to the FP1 as are all of the accessories like dividing head and rotary table.

Your vertical head (if morse taper 4) may be the bushing type (as opposed to the needle roller bearing type which is non trivial to overhaul. The bushing type requires frequent oiling because it is total loss. The bearing types were all SK40.

There was an active Deckel group on Practical Machinist last time I looked.

I do not have any parts left...maybe some collets. Of course there are plenty of morse 4:ER40 collet chucks available.

Take the body off the base (32mm bolts), take a handfull of anti-nausea pills and clean out all the manky gunk from the sump. Then seal it off so you don't have to ever do that again. I think stripped the body weighs <500 kg.

The control rod disconnected makes me wonder....as does the missing Z axis handwheel plus indexing wheel. Those parts are available from $inger.

Did you get all the changegears? They come in pairs with the total tooth count always 100.

Greg

Thanks Greg.
no i didn't get any space change gears with this machine . must be some where on that auction shed but thing's are all over place so hard to find them . sure some winning bidder at the auction might have some of my Deckel stuff mixed up there .
i'm not fuss about the indexing wheel and the hand wheel being original or not. I just get the hand wheel i got here to fit in and use it as is .
regards
peter

[thorens]

Peter,

ABB is a huge multinational electrical manufacturer based in Zurich, with a long history in heavy electrical industry.
"Known good" would understate the case, but I expect they are now manufacturing in low labour cost countries like everyone else.

I notice your ABB motor is a four pole one (1440rpm), but suspect the FP1 motor is six pole with a slower running speed. If that is the case, you could us a smaller motor pulley on the ABB motor to get the speeds right. Just turning down the speed with the VFD would be another way to go.

My FP1 is a later model with different details around the handwheels, but I may have some data on the older models - will search the archives.
I think you are also after details of the single lever feed design at the lower end. Again mine had a design change, but I thought Variant posted an exploded diagram of that system, maybe as per your model. Let me know if you are looking for something else.

Cheers,
Bill

Hi Bill.
Thanks. i will do that on the ABB motor . if you can help . i need to know what kind of Bolt the use on the link arm end ( opposite end of the feed box ) and the details of the feedbox mech arrangement . this two thing's i want to get done first then the hand wheel being next .
Peter

[Greg Q]

Peter let me see if I can find the backed-up copies of my treasure trove of early FP1 info.

In the meantime maybe Anorak Bob has some links for you.

Make sure you get some very light spindle oil for the vertical head. The horizontal is lubed by wicks hanging down into the gear oil. You'll also need a heavy way oil for the three axes ways.

The drive goes from the motor via vee belt to the upper pulley located coaxial with the black handwheel. Coaxial with that is a chain drive sprocket which drives a long chain back down to the feed gear mechanism. From one of the two feed shafts there is another chain drive mechanism to drive the mechanical coolant pump which sits in the sump. The gears have dogs on them which engage when mounted to either of the shafts.

The gears by the way are 14.5° pressure angle, but a metric module (i still have an unused cutter set of the correct module...I think its module 1.5)

You can still purchase horizontal cutter arbors in a variety of sizes from a couple of suppliers. The Germans call morse four MK4, by the way. (Morse konus)

The missing Z axis index wheel might not be significant as it would be imperial anyway. You might find a DRO cheaper than the real part from Singer.

The FP1 is a great small mill for anything shoebox size or smaller, although you can mill anything you can mount to it.

Greg

[WCD]

Hi Bill.
Thanks. i will do that on the ABB motor . if you can help . i need to know what kind of Bolt the use on the link arm end ( opposite end of the feed box ) and the details of the feedbox mech arrangement . this two thing's i want to get done first then the hand wheel being next .
Peter

Peter,

I have attached some drawings of your model FP1 feed gearing, showing the change gears and the shear pin. I presume your Deckel came with some change gears fitted to the feed gearbox. If not, the feeds will have no drive at all.

Here are some close photos of the link arm ends you asked about on my later model FP1.
The link arm end details are almost certainly different from yours, but here are the photos anyway.

Cheers,
Bill

[Anorak Bob]

Not maybe Peter.:) Send me a PM containing your email address and I'll wire you a FP1 catalogue illustrating the myriad accessories that were available in 1966.

Bob.

[thorens]

Peter,

I have attached some drawings of your model FP1 feed gearing, showing the change gears and the shear pin. I presume your Deckel came with some change gears fitted to the feed gearbox. If not, the feeds will have no drive at all.

Here are some close photos of the link arm ends you asked about on my later model FP1.
The link arm end details are almost certainly different from yours, but here are the photos anyway.

Cheers,
Bill

thanks Bill.
my link arm is similar , i think that screw for the link arm is broken on my , the reason i think it is , is because it missing this screw but the hole did not clear throughout , i can see it stuck half way when i test the hole with the screw driver about the length of the threaded area of the screw you show on your picture . i'd like to see your feed box details when you have time to take some pictures of it. if it open like mine .a bit hard to take pictures through ;) . picture attached is under my feed box.
now this should be hard to take the broken screw off this hole unless i can take that part off but how ? any one know ?

@ Hi Bob.
I will send you an email shortly

cheers
Peter

[WCD]

[QUOTE=thorens;1847797 i'd like to see your feed box details when you have time to take some pictures of it. if it open like mine .a bit hard to take pictures through ;) . picture attached is under my feed box.
now this should be hard to take the broken screw off this hole unless i can take that part off but how ? any one know ?
[/QUOTE]

Peter,
Busted screw in that location sounds nasty. See photo of the complete shaft (taken when I had the saddle completely apart because it had been lubed with grease!). I removed the shaft by removing the top end, but did not attempt to remove the taper pin at the lower end. Doing that without extracting the shaft from the saddle would be difficult on account of access alone, but given my problems removing other Deckel taper pins I would be leaving that pin alone. If I recollect correctly, it is possible to get to the top of the shaft in my photo without removing the saddle, but with the X slide removed.

Looking at your photos of the lower end of the feed shift lever, it seems that you are missing a spherical element that slides on the lower end of the lever. See photo attached.

341372341371

Cheers,
Bill

[thorens]

Peter,
Busted screw in that location sounds nasty. See photo of the complete shaft (taken when I had the saddle completely apart because it had been lubed with grease!). I removed the shaft by removing the top end, but did not attempt to remove the taper pin at the lower end. Doing that without extracting the shaft from the saddle would be difficult on account of access alone, but given my problems removing other Deckel taper pins I would be leaving that pin alone. If I recollect correctly, it is possible to get to the top of the shaft in my photo without removing the saddle, but with the X slide removed.

Looking at your photos of the lower end of the feed shift lever, it seems that you are missing a spherical element that slides on the lower end of the lever. See photo attached.

341372341371

Cheers,
Bill

Hi Bill.
tank you very much for your help . this is exactly what I need to know . you must taking lot of pictures when you service your ?
i think the spherical element at that end of the lever should be grub screw in place ? i have to made one to suit .
regards
Peter

[WCD]

i think the spherical element at that end of the lever should be grub screw in place ?

Peter,
The spherical part must be free to slide along the shift lever otherwise the whole thing will lock up, so no grub screw is needed.
I reached in with a pair of firm joint calipers to get a rough size for the spherical OD - about 14.5mm.
Regards,
Bill

[Greg Q]

341390

[thorens]

341390

Thanks Greg and Bill.
now time to retract the broken bolt . danm this will be hard :)
cheers
Peter

[WCD]

now time to retract the broken bolt

Peter,
In case all else fails:
I found a photo that shows how to get to the top of the X feed control shaft so it can be removed - at least on my version of the FP1.
With the X slide removed, there is a window in the front of the saddle that gives access to the top of the shaft. A short lever is keyed to the top of the shaft and secured axially with an M4 slotted head screw; with the screw loosened the shaft drops out - in theory.
Cheers,
Bill
341441
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

[thorens]

Peter,
In case all else fails:
I found a photo that shows how to get to the top of the X feed control shaft so it can be removed - at least on my version of the FP1.
With the X slide removed, there is a window in the front of the saddle that gives access to the top of the shaft. A short lever is keyed to the top of the shaft and secured axially with an M4 slotted head screw; with the screw loosened the shaft drops out - in theory.
Cheers,
Bill
341441
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

Thanks Bill.
look like this is a good option to get the broken bolt out .other way might be ok but very tight space to do the job properly .
cheers
Peter

[thorens]

it seem China made the new 220v to 380v 3 phase now. what you guys reckon ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2KW-25A-Input-220V-Output-380V-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-/261772365832?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf2d95008

Peter

[jhovel]

Peter, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news again.....:;
I'm afraid that looks like a translation error or just plain ignorance.
This is a Standard 380V Hunayang VFD.
A few lines down it says:
Input Power 380V class：380±15% (we also stock 220V item, please contact us for stock)

I nearly got sucked in with similar claims by another manufacturer - until I corresponded with them and realised they had no idea what they were selling at all.

[thorens]

Peter, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news again.....:;
I'm afraid that looks like a translation error or just plain ignorance.
This is a Standard 380V Hunayang VFD.
A few lines down it says:
Input Power 380V class：380±15% (we also stock 220V item, please contact us for stock)

I nearly got sucked in with similar claims by another manufacturer - until I corresponded with them and realised they had no idea what they were selling at all.

thanks.
you have saved me :)
it is very confusing with those chinese seller . however why would they try to sell the same thing's but double the money ? this is even more confusing.
here is what they said in they description.

Technical Paramer

1.Inpute voltage:220V±15%

2.Output voltage:380VAC±15%(analogous to input voltage)

3.Input Frequency:48-63HZ

4.Outpute Frequency:0-400HZ

5.Inpute phase:1 phase or 3 phase

6.Outpute phase:3phase

7.warranty:1 year

(we also stock 4KW 7A, 2.2KW 10A 220-250V, 3KW 220-250V and 380V modol, please contact us for stock )

thanks again
Peter

[jhovel]

as you can see, the only thisg that makes any sense there is 2.2kW 10A 220V.... and it probably has nothing to do with the one they are selling....

[Stustoys]

Hi Peter,


I'm sort of siding with Joe as I've seen the same sort of thing.
BUT "3HP 2.2KW Input 220V output 380V"
and the price difference have me wondering. The same guy is selling 2.2kW 240V in 240V out VSD's for $159

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2KW-220V-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-3HP-10A-/261772204003?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf2d6d7e3

Strange... but I wouldnt be putting down $400+ unless I was sure it did what it said.

Stuart

[thorens]

Hi Peter,


I'm sort of siding with Joe as I've seen the same sort of thing.
BUT "3HP 2.2KW Input 220V output 380V"
and the price difference have me wondering. The same guy is selling 2.2kW 240V in 240V out VSD's for $159

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2KW-220V-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-3HP-10A-/261772204003?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf2d6d7e3

Strange... but I wouldnt be putting down $400+ unless I was sure it did what it said.

Stuart

Hi Stuart.
i agree but you know they can't rip off on ebay any more . there is 150 days return policy just came in . so why would they sell something's that is double the money than what of the same product they sell ? i will shoot them an email and see what they say .
do you remenber there is similar product that sell in UK by the UK company ? i forgot what brand it was but do output 380v or 415v 3 phase.
cheers
Peter

[Stustoys]

Will be interesting what he has to say.

do you remenber there is similar product that sell in UK by the UK company ? i forgot what brand it was but do output 380v or 415v 3 phase.
I do, I've got one, drives direct, currently $930+postage :o. I've never checked the output but its meant to be 415V

Stuart

p.s. did you ever get that lathe going? I never got those motor specs and figured you had moved it on to someone else.

[thorens]

Will be interesting what he has to say.

I do, I've got one, drives direct, currently $930+postage :o. I've never checked the output but its meant to be 415V

Stuart

p.s. did you ever get that lathe going? I never got those motor specs and figured you had moved it on to someone else.

Hi Stuart.
now i remember . yes I saw the lower HP unit for around I think $600 plus shipping and I was run because of the price. didn't know you paid $930 :)
no , i haven't got the Hardinge going yet . too much lathe and too little time. I might sell one of the lathe . either the chipmaster or the hardinge soon.
what you are up to now with your 3 phase experiments ?
regards
Peter

[Stustoys]

Hi Stuart.
now i remember . yes I saw the lower HP unit for around I think $600 plus shipping and I was run because of the price. didn't know you paid $930 :)
no , i haven't got the Hardinge going yet . too much lathe and too little time. I might sell one of the lathe . either the chipmaster or the hardinge soon.
what you are up to now with your 3 phase experiments ?
regards
Peter
I paid more like $600 and the huanyangs were more like $250 so it didnt seem to bad at the time.

More jobs than time.... sound like most of us.

I pretty much finished my 3 phase experiments...... or should I say BobL finished them for me :D

Stuart

[thorens]

I paid more like $600 and the huanyangs were more like $250 so it didnt seem to bad at the time.

More jobs than time.... sound like most of us.

I pretty much finished my 3 phase experiments...... or should I say BobL finished them for me :D

Stuart

Hi Stuart.
here is the reply from the seller :
<<<<<<<<<< Thanks for your e-mail.
My friend, yes, I'm sure that our this inverter can be input 220v single phase and output 380v 3 phase. So please don't worry. And if you want to buy this, please place an order and pay for it .>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

so it seem they did made this 380v output lately
Peter

[jhovel]

I followed up with a similar offer (for a 4kW VFD). http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/111454228395
I got the same sort of generic response until I was more specific:



Please advise the maximum output current of this particular VFD (220V 4kW).
It is written on the white sticker on the side of the unit.
Regards,
Joe

Hello friend,
Thank you for taking interest in the machine from us.
Basic technical parameters for this VFD as:
Input Voltage: 220V, 48-63 Hz, 1 or 3 phase as you like
Output Voltage: 220V, 0-400 Hz, 3 phase
And it can only be used for 3-phase motor.
Hope these can help you.
Feel free to let us know if you have any question else.

Thank you for the reply.
Unfortunately it does not answer my question at all. I have 3 Huanyang VFDs already and I am very familiar with what they can do and how they are connected....
I need to know what the maximum Amperage in the output is.
I specifically asked for the max A number from the white sticker on the side.
Joe

Dear Customer；
Thanks for your email.
The max Amperage is 17A.
Best regards

[thorens]

I followed up with a similar offer (for a 4kW VFD). http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/111454228395
I got the same sort of generic response until I was more specific:



Please advise the maximum output current of this particular VFD (220V 4kW).
It is written on the white sticker on the side of the unit.
Regards,
Joe

Hello friend,
Thank you for taking interest in the machine from us.
Basic technical parameters for this VFD as:
Input Voltage: 220V, 48-63 Hz, 1 or 3 phase as you like
Output Voltage: 220V, 0-400 Hz, 3 phase
And it can only be used for 3-phase motor.
Hope these can help you.
Feel free to let us know if you have any question else.

Thank you for the reply.
Unfortunately it does not answer my question at all. I have 3 Huanyang VFDs already and I am very familiar with what they can do and how they are connected....
I need to know what the maximum Amperage in the output is.
I specifically asked for the max A number from the white sticker on the side.
Joe

Dear Customer；
Thanks for your email.
The max Amperage is 17A.
Best regards



Good day Joe.
the one I refer to is link below . it is different from the one in your link and they sell twice as much . so i confident they are already got a technical copy of design like the Direct drive in the UK .
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2KW-25A-Input-220V-Output-380V-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-/261772365832?ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:US:1123

I also email the seller and he replied see post above.

regards
Peter

[PDW]

Good day Joe.
the one I refer to is link below . it is different from the one in your link and they sell twice as much . so i confident they are already got a technical copy of design like the Direct drive in the UK .
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2KW-25A-Input-220V-Output-380V-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-/261772365832?ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:US:1123

I also email the seller and he replied see post above.

regards
Peter

Looking at their circuit diagram, the inputs R S T strongly suggest 3 phase input to me.

PDW

[Stustoys]

Looking at their circuit diagram, the inputs R S T strongly suggest 3 phase input to me.

Yeah the single phase vsd's have R S T and say "if single-phase source meets two willfully". So I wouldn't read to much into that.:D

[jhovel]

All Huanyangs have the same connection diagram. I believe only the 380V models require 3-phase input, but I even doubt that. There appears to be no 'phase missing' connections in the full power circuit diagram. The three inputs simply connect directly to a rectifier.

[azzrock]

hi mate well done. you have all the good toys. every one should get one
aaron

[thorens]

hi mate well done. you have all the good toys. every one should get one
aaron

HI Aaron.
Thanks and nice to hear from you. hope you well . i'm only play a catch up here :)
Peter

[thorens]

guys.
all the the small little problem on my FP1 is now fix . hand wheel also done .
all i have to do now is decide on the motor to get it running and some clean up . are the gibs on the vertical ( knee ?) can be adjusted ? , as it is quite tight to move up and downs .
Peter

[Piers037]

Hi Peter,

Nice work on the PF1. I bet you are itching to power it up and make some chips.

I like the SO grinder. Where did you pick that up?

Cheers

Piers

[Greg Q]

guys.
all the the small little problem on my FP1 is now fix . hand wheel also done .
all i have to do now is decide on the motor to get it running and some clean up . are the gibs on the vertical ( knee ?) can be adjusted ? , as it is quite tight to move up and downs .
Peter

Yes, there are gibs on the z axis. The little steel levers control gib tightness. Looks like yours are painted green. They are (from memory) on the operator's side of the machine. The same type of levers control the horizontal gib adjustment too. I replaced most of mine with ratcheting levers from Kipp because they got in an awkward spot with worn gibb strips.

[thorens]

Yes, there are gibs on the z axis. The little steel levers control gib tightness. Looks like yours are painted green. They are (from memory) on the operator's side of the machine. The same type of levers control the horizontal gib adjustment too. I replaced most of mine with ratcheting levers from Kipp because they got in an awkward spot with worn gibb strips.

thanks Greg.
i seen those levers and have lossen them but both Horizontal and vertical moment still kind of tight on the hand when hand wheelling them

@ Piers.
i pick the SO a while ago . it in excelent condition but haven't use it yet :)
Peter

[Greg Q]

thanks Greg.
i seen those levers and have lossen them but both Horizontal and vertical moment still kind of tight on the hand when hand wheelling them

@ Piers.
i pick the SO a while ago . it in excelent condition but haven't use it yet :)
Peter

I found that once properly oiled mine became very smooth. But that machine likely has lots of wear, as they pretty much all do. Is the tightness through the whole range? If so the gib & ways might not be the issue:?

[thorens]

I found that once properly oiled mine became very smooth. But that machine likely has lots of wear, as they pretty much all do. Is the tightness through the whole range? If so the gib & ways might not be the issue:?

yes they seem to be tight the whole range of travel not just one or two spots , it still moveable thought but your hand will be tired after you wind them up and downs or side to side a few time :) . the only place that it move very smooth is the head , it move in and out using hand wheel very smoothly and i think that is what you should expect from Deckel.
i can see a bit of Greases on the vertical big screw , i haven't clean and oil anything's yet , i'm thinking of using Kerosen to clean all the old oils/ grease and oil all those point again .

Peter

[KBs PensNmore]

Nice work on the Deckel, Peter. Is the SO, a tool and cutter grinder, looks like it's brand new?
Kryn

[thorens]

Nice work on the Deckel, Peter. Is the SO, a tool and cutter grinder, looks like it's brand new?
Kryn

Hi Kryn.
the SO Deckel is cutter grinder , it have very little use when i got it and I haven't use it my self :)
yeah it in Excellent condition
Peter

[WCD]

yes they seem to be tight the whole range of travel not just one or two spots , it still moveable thought but your hand will be tired after you wind them up and downs or side to side a few time :) ...........
i can see a bit of Greases on the vertical big screw , i haven't clean and oil anything's yet , i'm thinking of using Kerosen to clean all the old oils/ grease and oil all those point again .

Peter

Hi Peter,

If you have not done it already, it would be good to add oil to the saddle reservoir. The reservoir is intended to be filled regularly, and the oil then slowly runs down through various galleries (over time) to lubricate all parts in the saddle, including X and Z slides and screws, the power feed gearing and clutches etc. I think you will find a sight glass that shows when sufficient oil has been added to the reservoir.

Cheers,
Bill

[thorens]

Hi Peter,

If you have not done it already, it would be good to add oil to the saddle reservoir. The reservoir is intended to be filled regularly, and the oil then slowly runs down through various galleries (over time) to lubricate all parts in the saddle, including X and Z slides and screws, the power feed gearing and clutches etc. I think you will find a sight glass that shows when sufficient oil has been added to the reservoir.

Cheers,
Bill

Thank you Bill.
i will do that . i noitced the chain on the back inside the box is very loose or may be it worn out . is it adjustable on this chain ?
regards
Peter

[WCD]

Thank you Bill.
i will do that . i noitced the chain on the back inside the box is very loose or may be it worn out . is it adjustable on this chain ?
regards
Peter

Peter,
There are two chains - one for the power feed drive, and a lower one for the coolant pump - there is no adjustment for wear (at least not on my FP1).
Apparently the chains are often loose on old machines, but they can be replaced quite economically from local suppliers even though chain is usually sold in 10 ft lengths (surprisingly, imperial chain is fitted). Mine has an odd number of links in the feed drive chain, requiring a 'half-link' to be included in the chain. I will check the chain size and get back to you.
Regards,
Bill

[thorens]

Peter,
There are two chains - one for the power feed drive, and a lower one for the coolant pump - there is no adjustment for wear (at least not on my FP1).
Apparently the chains are often loose on old machines, but they can be replaced quite economically from local suppliers even though chain is usually sold in 10 ft lengths (surprisingly, imperial chain is fitted). Mine has an odd number of links in the feed drive chain, requiring a 'half-link' to be included in the chain. I will check the chain size and get back to you.
Regards,
Bill

Morning Bill.
on mine i can only see one chain behind the right hand side door . may be another one some where else i haven't look .

regards
Peter

[WCD]

Morning Bill.
on mine i can only see one chain behind the right hand side door . may be another one some where else i haven't look .

Peter,
The one you saw drives the coolant pump. I think the shaft carrying the upper sprocket of the pump chain is driven by another chain located behind the V belt cover.
Cheers,
Bill

[thorens]

guys
I just finish painted some of the Deckel FP1 components that was badly won't out paint .
when I clean out the vertical head i see there is packed with greases ( I means fully packed in it cavity ) , does it really need to be pack with that much of grease or is it ? one picture i tool showing the head cavity .
Peter

[Greg Q]

Sorry Peter...no photo of grease. You just need enough for the bevel gears...remind me though: is youra a plain bearing head or a needle roller head? If the latter, it needs a little bit of Kluber Isoflex grea$e, if plain bearing it needs a regular and steady diet of very lightweight oil. It is a total loss system.

Cannot put my hand on the reference right this minute, but the correct oil is mentioned in the approved lubricants Deckel bulletin from somwtime in the mid 1950's.

Nice paint.

Greg

[thorens]

Sorry Peter...no photo of grease. You just need enough for the bevel gears...remind me though: is youra a plain bearing head or a needle roller head? If the latter, it needs a little bit of Kluber Isoflex grea$e, if plain bearing it needs a regular and steady diet of very lightweight oil. It is a total loss system.

Cannot put my hand on the reference right this minute, but the correct oil is mentioned in the approved lubricants Deckel bulletin from somwtime in the mid 1950's.

Nice paint.

Greg

thanks Greg.
no i didn't take pictures when i clean the old grease from the head , however as you can see the head photo , all that hollow in side the head is packed with grease . i not sure what bearing this one used as i didn't take all the head a part yet .

regards
Peter