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powderpost
30th Mar 2015, 09:05 PM
Haven't spent much time on the lathe lately, been busy making jewellery boxes. Started to get a bit excited about some segmenting again. Started with the simple northern silky oak bowl, it looked a bit plain. Had a bit of some commercial veneer banding that I thought suited the oak. The bowl is about 225mm diameter and 75mm deep. The open grained oak took three applications of grain filler then three sprayed coats of lacquer. I cut the gloss back to take the photo but will buff it back with EEE, to a semi-gloss finish.

343491

The second one is a bit more complex. The pattern is not quite right so I have started a second one. From the top centre, the timbers are, black walnut, the top most pattern is red cedar and black bean, the lower curved design is salmon bean and black bean. The lower part of the bowl is figured Queensland maple. Again, it will be buffed up later with EEE. This one is 210 diameter x 130mm high.

343492

Jim

Acco
30th Mar 2015, 09:17 PM
As usual the work is excellent :2tsup: but gunna have to deduct points for the flat finish :roll: :q

Rod Gilbert
30th Mar 2015, 10:28 PM
Hi Jim,
I see what you mean about the second bowl but I am sure you're well on the way to sorting it out as for the first bowl when you say comercial banding I presume you mean pre made flat banding for inlaying how did you get it around the bowl,the face you have it on looks to be inclined not square is this correct or an illusion if so how do you make it work. As always you have done an excellent job on these.
With admiration regards Rod.

powderpost
30th Mar 2015, 11:16 PM
Hi Jim,
as for the first bowl when you say comercial banding I presume you mean pre made flat banding for inlaying how did you get it around the bowl,the face you have it on looks to be inclined not square is this correct or an illusion if so how do you make it work. Rod.

Hi Rod, For the past few years I have made my own veneer bandings. I still have some of the commercially made bandings left, the banding used on this bowl best suited the oak, in my opinion. The edge that has the banding fitted is in not inclined but square to the bowl top. It is fitted to a shallow groove.

Jim

Kidbee
31st Mar 2015, 03:13 AM
I am usually not a fan of segmented turning but I have to admit your bowl is different and I quite like it.

Hardenfast
31st Mar 2015, 09:29 AM
Hi Rod, For the past few years I have made my own veneer bandings. I still have some of the commercially made bandings left, the banding used on this bowl best suited the oak, in my opinion. The edge that has the banding fitted is in not inclined but square to the bowl top. It is fitted to a shallow groove.

Jim

G'day Jim.

I too have some of the commercially manufactured veneer bandings and have experimented in the past with fitting them to the rims of a couple of bowls. In my limited experience with this I have bumped into 2 problems.



Unless the bowl rim is almost vertical at the band location it's virtually impossible to get the banding to seat nicely or to sit flat in the groove. Jim will know what I mean, but to others trying to picture this, try wrapping a bit of that plastic banding tape around a sphere and trying to get it to sit flat on the surface once you move it away from the centre. I see your note that the band location on your bowl is square/perpendicular to the top and therefore doesn't require a "splayed" installation, but I'm wondering if there's a way to accommodate a non-perpendicular installation?
There's always a problem with trying to align the pattern on the band where the 2 ends meet. Unless you fluke the exact bowl circumference to suit the pattern layout you end with a mismatched joint. Maybe you can engineer the circumference to suit?


Have you encountered these issues as well, and if so, found a way to overcome?

Wayne

Christos
31st Mar 2015, 01:02 PM
I have seen these done before but not given it much thought of giving it a go. Maybe when I have more time. Looks really nice and a shine will bring out the banding.



....There's always a problem with trying to align the pattern on the band where the 2 ends meet. Unless you fluke the exact bowl circumference to suit the pattern layout you end with a mismatched joint. Maybe you can engineer the circumference to suit?.....

I do have one other though about the banding and that it to cut it and then add spaces of plain wood between the cuts.

turnerted
31st Mar 2015, 04:08 PM
Both look good to me Jim.
Ted

Sawdust Maker
31st Mar 2015, 07:06 PM
Nice work Jim

dai sensei
31st Mar 2015, 08:02 PM
Beautiful, especially the second one

smiife
31st Mar 2015, 08:19 PM
Very nice jim, they both look great, well done:2tsup:

JDarvall
31st Mar 2015, 08:24 PM
look great.

powderpost
31st Mar 2015, 08:46 PM
G'day Jim.

I too have some of the commercially manufactured veneer bandings and have experimented in the past with fitting them to the rims of a couple of bowls. In my limited experience with this I have bumped into 2 problems.



Unless the bowl rim is almost vertical at the band location it's virtually impossible to get the banding to seat nicely or to sit flat in the groove. Jim will know what I mean, but to others trying to picture this, try wrapping a bit of that plastic banding tape around a sphere and trying to get it to sit flat on the surface once you move it away from the centre. I see your note that the band location on your bowl is square/perpendicular to the top and therefore doesn't require a "splayed" installation, but I'm wondering if there's a way to accommodate a non-perpendicular installation?
There's always a problem with trying to align the pattern on the band where the 2 ends meet. Unless you fluke the exact bowl circumference to suit the pattern layout you end with a mismatched joint. Maybe you can engineer the circumference to suit?


Have you encountered these issues as well, and if so, found a way to overcome?

Wayne

Hi Wayne, I did try to fit banding to a sloping surface by "massaging" one edge to lengthen it. The effect wasn't worth the effort. I am toying with the idea of re-designing a batch of bandings. That won't happen over night but it will happen. :;.

Getting he ends to match up is not really a problem. I simply make the groove a tad deeper until the pattern matches. That can be a problem, depending on how often the pattern is repeated. The joint in the silky oak bowl was cut at 45 degrees, to match the pattern.

More experimenting is needed. I am finding that each time I walk past a calender, two pages fall off.. :oo:.

Jim

Mobyturns
1st Apr 2015, 08:36 AM
Jim,
Beautiful work as always, but that is what we expect from a master woodturner.

Flindersia
1st Apr 2015, 08:13 PM
Congratulations on these powderpost. The second one I particularly like. Is there a good text for this style of segmented turning that may enlighten me as to how it or something similar could be attempted?


Jim,
Beautiful work as always, but that is what we expect from a master woodturner.

powderpost
1st Apr 2015, 09:03 PM
Congratulations on these powderpost. The second one I particularly like. Is there a good text for this style of segmented turning that may enlighten me as to how it or something similar could be attempted?

Thanks for the compliment. There is plenty of help on U-Tube, just have a look there. You won't find much on the style I am using, as is a technique I have been working on for a while now. Each time I make a piece, another idea comes up, so my technique is still developing. You will need a good understanding of wood and also a good grasp of geometry. I am writing a book on the subject, as I see it, but I continuously get new ideas. So that will be a while in the making.

Jim

Rod Gilbert
2nd Apr 2015, 08:36 PM
Hi Jim,
I think many would be interested in a book by you or this subject you obviously have a impressive skill in this type of turning and the top quality that you always strive for is an inspiration to all. I have done quite a bit of segmented work over the years but very basic compared to yourself so I realize how involved the set out process can be and how much effort you must put into each piece.
regards Rod.

Christos
2nd Apr 2015, 09:09 PM
..... how involved the set out process can be and how much effort you must put into each piece......


I agree.

powderpost
2nd Apr 2015, 11:04 PM
Hi Rod and Christos, my first segmented job came from a book put together by Dale Nish back in 1987. In fact I did a W.I.P. on that very project here on the board. There is also a W.I.P. for a segmented vase there too.

Then I had a go at a staved and segmented vase. I had done some staving work at the college with some cabinet maker apprentices, so it was a simple extension of that. I paddled around with variations on a theme making vases and simple segmented bowls. Then I "discovered" Tunbridge ware in a book by David Springett, more cutting and gluing little pieces of wood. My wife came home with a book "Laminated Designs in Wood" by Clarence Rannefeld, that really put the cat among the pigeons. There was another English book in there some where too, "Polychromatic Turning" by Brown and Brown.

By this time I was properly hooked by the effects created by segmented. Then it occurred to me nobody was using curved edge segments. It took a while to develop a reliable, consistent method to control the shape of the male and female curves so that they matched. One big problem here is working out how to cramp the pieces together while the glue dries. Then there is the problem which glue is most effective. A sound knowledge of maths is important.

The journey has been challenging and interesting, but not yet finished. Now there are a few books on the subject available, as well as what is on U-Tube, so there is plenty of information available now.

Jim

Hardenfast
8th Apr 2015, 11:07 PM
Hi Wayne, I did try to fit banding to a sloping surface by "massaging" one edge to lengthen it. The effect wasn't worth the effort. I am toying with the idea of re-designing a batch of bandings. That won't happen over night but it will happen. :;.

Getting he ends to match up is not really a problem. I simply make the groove a tad deeper until the pattern matches. That can be a problem, depending on how often the pattern is repeated. The joint in the silky oak bowl was cut at 45 degrees, to match the pattern.

More experimenting is needed. I am finding that each time I walk past a calender, two pages fall off.. :oo:.

Jim

Interesting notes Jim - thanks.

I too have wondered whether you could "stretch" the commercial patterned banding strips on one side to suit the inclined surface of a bowl... massaging as you put it. I'll take your observation as law that its not worth the effort.

Your solution to matching the pattern at the ends of the strip is a "doh" moment. Of course! Just trial & error the groove depth to adjust the overall circumference until the join in the strip suits the pattern, and then trim off the bowl surface to suit.

I'll have another shot at this when I eventually get set up again.

Wayne