having fun chasing threads

[smiife]

:no::no::no:
Hi guys
had fun chasing threads today,,,,,and It was about the same as a
bad day playing golf !! (I hate golf too...)
I am sure It is all about practice ,,,,,but i was so confident i went
ahead and made a box and then thought i would just thread the top
and bottom and finish off ! HA.HA. not that easy , I now have the
utmost respect for those that can chase threads , cos I sure can, t
I then started a second box thinking the first one was just put down
to experiance , it wasn, t much better than the first attempt:o
So I found an old pepper mill that didn, t work to good and was
made of Ironbark and very hard and just practiced for a few hours
I finally seemed to be getting somewhere,, i took a few photos
of the process thought some might get a laugh....
any tips , comments and advice would be appreciated.....:;

[dai sensei]

Practice practice practice, on your thread patterns, then depth of threads, then matching the internal/external threads.

Certainly not easy, although watching someone who knows what they are doing, it looks easy :-. Powderpost (Jim) is the man

[powderpost]

Hi Smiife, I can sympathize with you. I bought a pair if chasers about 15 years ago, simple eh? First attempt, bludy disaster, second attempt worse and so on. The chasers then spent a long time resting where they landed after many failures, in the corner of the shed. Sound familiar? 20 tpi chasers is the better place to start. Like all tools, they are not ready for use straight from the packet. Sharpen by rubbing a stone on the top surface of the chasers, they must be sharp. Set the lathe at about 350 rpm, with the tool rest about 20mm from the job for the male thread. Select a piece, not necessarily hard, but with a tight grain and turn round and smooth about 50mm diameter. Set the tool rest so that the tool cuts on the horizontal centre line. The trick is a VERY LIGHT touch and hold the tool LIGHTLY. It is not like turning where you need to hold the tool firmly. Place most of the fingers of the left hand under the rest with the thumb on top of the tool immediately above the rest. Rotate the handle in a clockwise direction and VERY LIGHTLY mark the timber. Repeat the process LIGHTLY and in the same place.

I would suggest that you just concentrate on chasing a male thread until you start to get the hang of it before you work on a box. After each attempt cut the thread off and start again on the same piece. Then start working on the female thread. You will find that much easier by boring a 25mm hole deep into a 50mm blank for the female thread. Making a box at this stage will only create pressure on you to "make a box" rather than master the technique first. There is more to making a threaded box than just chasing threads.

I do understand your frustration, been there done that, and learned the hard way. But mastering hand thread chasing is very satisfying.
Your pictures suggest to me that the tools are not sharp enough, and that you are using the tools in the same manner used for turning. Can't emphasize enough, light touch.

Hope this helps you....

Jim

[tea lady]

I have managed to get 3 threaded boxes working. But a lot of waste wood.

Little pointers-

-You need a groove at the bottom of the thread

-When you start the thread you have the chaser angled a bit (handle to the right. ) then gradually bring it straight with each pass.

-Ya gotta make sure the sides are parallel. I found this hardest on the inside. I think cos the thread chaser in not straight with the handle. And cos you can't eye ball it.

-The tool is in motion all the time. You probably know that. But you just sort of get a rhythm to moving the tool in , along the thread, out, around, back tho the start. repeat.

-The threads you are doing look good. Just not parallel.

[steamingbill]

Please excuse me if this is regarded as cheating.

Fine Woodworking - March/April 1983 - #39
THREADING WOOD
A router-table threadbox
by Andrew Henwood
A commercial threader
by Jim Cummins
Versatile threadbox cuts inside and outside threads
by Robert J. Harrigan

The last article describes a jig you can make that uses a dremel or similar tool to cut the thread with a v shaped high speed cutter. I've only got a faded hard copy. I cant find it on the web so I must have photocopied from library. I think there are a few versions documented on the web in various places - they use a threaded bar or a big bolt (most hardware shops) to feed the workpiece onto the rotating tool at the correct tpi rate........ Magazine might be available as a loan via library system.

Maybe you already know about them.

Heres a slightly different version http://www.instructables.com/id/Box-Threading-Jig/ the relevant bit starts at 5:20 and good view of basic jig right at start.

I made a terrible mess when I tried threading wood. Ripped it to pieces and that made me do some googling to find other ways.

Bill

[nalmo]

I've had some success with chasing threads.
At first I got results like smife's - good practice to get the technique right, but the biggest obstacle was in the choice of timbers. Like powderpost said, try using tight grained timbers and you'll notice a sudden improvement in the quality of your threads. Hard timbers do not make the threads cleaner, probably the opposite. I've had excellent results with some cherry.

[smiife]

Practice,practice practice, on your thread patterns, then depth of threads, then matching the internal/external threads.

Certainly not easy, although watching someone who knows what they are doing, it looks easy :-. Powderpost (Jim) is the man
Hi neil,
Thanks for your thoughts, definatly not easy,, watched a u-tube of
Alan Batty and he certainly makes It look easy:doh:


Hi Smiife, I can sympathize with you. I bought a pair if chasers about 15 years ago, simple eh? First attempt, bludy disaster, second attempt worse and so on. The chasers then spent a long time resting where they landed after many failures, in the corner of the shed. Sound familiar? 20 tpi chasers is the better place to start. Like all tools, they are not ready for use straight from the packet. Sharpen by rubbing a stone on the top surface of the chasers, they must be sharp. Set the lathe at about 350 rpm, with the tool rest about 20mm from the job for the male thread. Select a piece, not necessarily hard, but with a tight grain and turn round and smooth about 50mm diameter. Set the tool rest so that the tool cuts on the horizontal centre line. The trick is a VERY LIGHT touch and hold the tool LIGHTLY. It is not like turning where you need to hold the tool firmly. Place most of the fingers of the left hand under the rest with the thumb on top of the tool immediately above the rest. Rotate the handle in a clockwise direction and VERY LIGHTLY mark the timber. Repeat the process LIGHTLY and in the same place.

I would suggest that you just concentrate on chasing a male thread until you start to get the hang of it before you work on a box. After each attempt cut the thread off and start again on the same piece. Then start working on the female thread. You will find that much easier by boring a 25mm hole deep into a 50mm blank for the female thread. Making a box at this stage will only create pressure on you to "make a box" rather than master the technique first. There is more to making a threaded box than just chasing threads.

I do understand your frustration, been there done that, and learned the hard way. But mastering hand thread chasing is very satisfying.
Your pictures suggest to me that the tools are not sharp enough, and that you are using the tools in the same manner used for turning. Can't emphasize enough, light touch.

Hope this helps you....

Jim

Hi jim,
Thanks for your comments and advice I will take all your points
onboard, what type of timber would you recommend to use as
a beginner , I thought jarrah would have worked well but not
in this case,,

n
I have managed to get 3 threaded boxes working. But a lot of waste wood.

Little pointers-

-You need a groove at the bottom of the thread

-When you start the thread you have the chaser angled a bit (handle to the right. ) then gradually bring it straight with each pass.

-Ya gotta make sure the sides are parallel. I found this hardest on the inside. I think cos the thread chaser in not straight with the handle. And cos you can't eye ball it.

-The tool is in motion all the time. You probably know that. But you just sort of get a rhythm to moving the tool in , along the thread, out, around, back tho the start. repeat.

-The threads you are doing look good. Just not parallel.

Hi ann marie,
I did put In the groove firstly but i think i may have cut it away:~
and getting the threads parallel ain, t easy , thanks for your advice
I really appreciate your help, do you have any pic, s of your boxes ?
Thanks for your pointers all well noted , all I have to do now Is practice
Practice and more practice....mmmmm........hope I can find the time:o

[smiife]

Please eitcuse me if this is regarded as cheating.

Fine Woodworking - March/April 1983 - #39
THREADING WOOD
A router-table threadbox
by Andrew Henwood
A commercial threaded
by Jim Cummins
Versatile threadbox cuts inside and outside threads
by Robert J. Harrigan

The last article describes a jig you can make that uses a dremel or similar tool to cut the thread with a v shaped high speed cutter. I've only got a faded hard copy. I cant find it on the web so I must have photocopied from library. I think there are a few versions documented on the web in various places - they use a threaded bar or a big bolt (most hardware shops) to feed the workpiece onto the rotating tool at the correct tpi rate........ Magazine might be available as a loan via library system.

Maybe you already know about them.

Heres a slightly different version http://www.instructables.com/id/Box-Threading-Jig/ the relevant bit starts at 5:20 and good view of basic jig right at start.

I made a terrible mess when I tried threading wood. Ripped it to pieces and that made me do some googling to find other ways.

Bill
Hi bill,
Not sure if it, s cheating,, certainly another way of doing threads and
if I had to do some for a customer on a regular basis probably a good way
to go, thread chasing was just something I wanted to have a go at and is
a lot more difficult than I thought It would be:doh:


I've had some success with chasing threads.
At first I got results like smife's - good practice to get the technique right, but the biggest obstacle was in the choice of timbers. Like powderpost said, try using tight grained timbers and you'll notice a sudden improvement in the quality of your threads. Hard timbers do not make the threads cleaner, probably the opposite. I've had excellent results with some cherry.

Hi nalmo,
Thanks for your advice , I will try some different timbers I think !
I will certainly not be giving up any time soon .

[powderpost]

-Ya gotta make sure the sides are parallel. I found this hardest on the inside. I think cos the thread chaser in not straight with the handle. And cos you can't eye ball it.

Hi Tealady, Making the male thread "parallel" is simple enough, just eye ball it with the edge of the bed. Inside the female thread is a little different. I use a small steel rule or a pencil held against the inside and eye ball it with the edge of the bed before cutting the thread. Helps also to rub a little EEE on the thread and work the threads by hand. Makes them nice and smooth.

Fim

[powderpost]

Hi jim,
Thanks for your comments and advice I will take all your points
onboard, what type of timber would you recommend to use as
a beginner , I thought jarrah would have worked well but not
in this case,,

Smiife, not sure what timbers you have access to. I have chased threads on citrus fruit trees, maybe you could try some of the stone fruit woods. Can't vouch for them as I don't have access to those up here.

Jim

[smiife]

Hi Tealady, Making the maIe thread "parallel" is simple enough, just eye ball it with the edge of the bed. Inside the female thread is a little different. I use a small steel rule or a pencil held against the inside and eye ball it with the edge of the bed before cutting the thread. Helps also to rub a little EEE on the thread and work the threads by hand. Makes them nice and smooth.

Fim

Hi jim,
Hope you don, t mind me keep asking questions,!
What do you mean by rubbing In eee and work by hand ?


Hi jim,
Thanks for your comments and advice I will take all your points
onboard, what type of timber would you recommend to use as
a beginner , I thought jarrah would have worked well but not
in this case,,

Smiife, not sure what timbers you have access to. I have chased threads on citrus fruit trees, maybe you could try some of the stone fruit woods. Can't vouch for them as I don't have access to those up here.

Jim

I will look around for some tight grain timber and try again
I think you will have to pop around and give us a demo:U
You would like It here ...a high of 8º today sleeting rain
and about 2º overnight.......sounds good doesn, t IT......:o
Thanks for your help!

[dai sensei]

You'll have to make it up to Proserpine and see Jim in action. I was next to him last year, cheeky bloke turned a box with threaded and textured lid in a matter of minutes :o, he makes it look sooooo simple :-

[smiife]

You'll have to make it up to Proserpine and see Jim in action. I was next to him last year, cheeky bloke turned a box with threaded and textured lid in a matter of minutes :o, he makes it look sooooo simple :-

Hi neil,
Yeah , I might have to do that , I still have a bit of time
to practice !!:U

[powderpost]

Hi Smiife, I certainly don't mind you asking questions. Again I will suggest you practice chasing threads on pieces of timber, instead of the extra pressure of making a threaded lidded box.
The EEE bit was referring to easing a less than perfect thread on a box, instead of easing with the chasers. That last cut invariably has unwelcome results. A very common result in wood turning.
As for "popping" around the corner, that could be a problem, I have a little difficulty with temperatures like that.http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/sad/cry.gif :cold:

Jim

[powderpost]

Smiife, here is a bit of a challenge for you. This box is made from Queensland maple, not a good timber for thread chasing. I have inserted a piece of Burdekin plum into the bottom and inside the lid for chasing the thread. Another option for timbers that don't like taking a hand chased thread.

Jim

345374345375

[smiife]

Smiife, here is a bit of a challenge for you. This box is made from Queensland maple, not a good timber for thread chasing. I have inserted a piece of Burdekin plum into the bottom and inside the lid for chasing the thread. Another option for timbers that don't like taking a hand chased thread.

Jim

345374345375

Hi jim,
That looks like a great little box , and a great solution
to the problem, I have just made a couple of boxes
just like that but without the threads , I will take you
up on the challenge , maybe this time next year !,:o
I only hope It would be half as good as yours
Thanks

[smiife]

Hi guys,
Spent a couple of hours playing around with threads
again on sunday , and finally got to join 2 pieces of scraps
together with threads that actually work:o:o
I was as excited as a pig in poop!
now i wonder if i can repeat the process or was it just a fluke:doh:
Oh well i had to take a photo or two just to show off!:U

[powderpost]

Good job Smiife, good feeling isn't it? :2tsup: Suggestion.... cut the male thread first, then cut off the first three threads until the marks just disappear. That will give you the inside diameter for the spigot for the female thread.
I still think you should just chase threads without trying to make boxes, for a while any way. Tends to be a bit frustrating when the threads don't match, or the male thread is a bit small. :~. Probably a good idea to have another look at the Alan Batty video.

Jim

[smiife]

Good job Smiife, good feeling isn't it? :2tsup: Suggestion.... cut the male thread first, then cut off the first three threads until the marks just disappear. That will give you the inside diameter for the spigot for the female thread.
I still think you should just chase threads without trying to make boxes, for a while any way. Tends to be a bit frustrating when the threads don't match, or the male thread is a bit small. :~. Probably a good idea to have another look at the Alan Batty video.

Jim

Hi jim,
Thanks for the tips,, I am definitely not ready yet to
mass produce boxes , and will keep practicing with
different timbers and use up a few more scraps
Thanks for the advice on taking a few threads off
for sizing too, never thought of that:2tsup:
I am having trouble holding the arm rest tool and
trying to hold the female threader and concentrate
on what I am actually doing , any tips....?
I seem to end up with a back ache after awhile:~?

[powderpost]

Hi Smiifie, You probably have already done this, but, make sure there are no nicks on the top of the tool rest or the back of the arm rest, most important. I will even buff them on a buffing wheel. That makes them nice and smooth and also warms them up. Gets down to 23c here sometimes during the day. :; . Put your left hand under the tool rest with the thumb gently on top of the arm rest. The left hand fingers should reach the arm rest from underneath. Move the arm rest together with the female thread chaser.
For practice pieces, turn a 50mm blank round and bore a 25mm hole through it. This will give plenty of room to work without the problem of "bottoming out", and enough wood to allow you to turn the thread off and go again.

If you are getting a sore back, sounds like your lathe is too low?

How long is the handle on the arm rest? Mine is 300mm long and fits comfortably under my left arm. The big advantage of it is that there is good access to the job and visibility. Seems like you have the tenacity to succeed. As mentioned before, it took me about 30 minutes to unceremonously and carelessly place the tools in the corner of the shed. Keep at it you will succeed.

Jim

[smiife]

[QUOTE=powerpost;1863057Hi Smiifie, You probably have already done this, but, make sure there are no nicks on the top of the tool rest or the back of the arm rest, most important. I will even buff them on a buffing wheel. That makes them nice and smooth and also warms them up. Gets down to 23c here sometimes during the day. :; . Put your left hand under the tool rest with the thumb gently on top of the arm rest. The left hand fingers should reach the arm rest from underneath. Move the arm rest together with the female thread chaser.
For practice pieces, turn a 50mm blank round and bore a 25mm hole through it. This will give plenty of room to work without the problem of "bottoming out", and enough wood to allow you to turn the thread off and go again.

If you are getting a sore back, sounds like your lathe is too low?

How long is the handle on the arm rest? Mine is 300mm long and fits comfortably under my left arm. The big advantage of it is that there is good access to the job and visibility. Seems like you have the tenacity to succeed. As mentioned before, it took me about 30 minutes to unceremonously and carelessly place the tools in the corner of the shed. Keep at it you will succeed.

Jim[/QUOTE]

Hi jim,
I will have a look at the toolrest and "warm it up ", only -2º
this morning, I feel I am becoming a " pita" with all my questions
but I really appreciate your help and thank you for it ,
The lathe Is at bent elbow height at the spindle centre
The whole tool measures 600mm , and the handle is 380mm
I don, t think the tool Is the problem i think it, s the operator
that needs adjusting:B , thanks again for your tips

[Mobyturns]

Check to see if your tools or rest have become magnetized as well. ;-)

[powderpost]

Hi jim,
I will have a look at the toolrest and "warm it up ", only -2º I definitely will not "pop around the corner for a visit"
this morning, I feel I am becoming a " pita" with all my questions

I remember being in Armidale in July on our honey moon. It was so cold we bought and wore thongs so our feet would not stick to the floors in the showers. You are on your own baby. :D
I do not consider you or your questions are a "pita", I think there might be a few people on the sidelines listening as well.... :U. I am only to willing to help, if I can.

Jim

[Uncle Al]

I think there might be a few people on the sidelines listening as well.... :U. I am only to willing to help, if I can.

Jim

Yeah, I'm sitting on the sidelines enjoying the action. Dabbled in thread chasing ages ago, will have another go when time and patience permit.

The types of wood have quite a bearing on results, and believe Catoneaster, Rhododendrum, coachwood, Magnolia, and possibly Teak are worth trying, amongst others mentioned above.

Perseverance, persistance and patience and the odd profanity will help in your journey.
Good luck with it.

Alan...

[smiife]

Check to see if your tools or rest have become magnetized as well. ;-)

Thanks mobyturns,, I will check tomorrow!


I remember being in Armidale in July on our honey moon. It was so cold we bought and wore thongs so our feet would not stick to the floors in the showers. You are on your own baby. :D
I do not consider you or your questions are a "pita", I think there might be a few people on the sidelines listening as well.... :U. I am only to willing to help, if I can.

Jim

Thanks jim, you certainly have helped me !:2tsup:


Yeah, I'm sitting on the sidelines enjoying the action. Dabbled in thread chasing ages ago, will have another go when time and patience permit.

The types of wood have quite a bearing on results, and believe Catoneaster, Rhododendrum, coachwood, Magnolia, and possibly Teak are worth trying, amongst others mentioned above.

Perseverance, persistance and patience and the odd profanity will help in your journey.
Good luck with it.

Alan...

Hi alan, there has certainly been a bit of cussing and swearing,
I think It always helps:;

[Kidbee]

Smiife, here is a bit of a challenge for you. This box is made from Queensland maple, not a good timber for thread chasing. I have inserted a piece of Burdekin plum into the bottom and inside the lid for chasing the thread. Another option for timbers that don't like taking a hand chased thread.

Jim

345374345375

Jim, what thread tpi is that? What brand tool were you using, or for that matter, who makes the best tool in your opinion?

[smiife]

Hi guys,
Spent most of the weekend , practicing, practicing and
more practicing, trying different timbers and different
ways to run a thread , finally came up with one that
kinder worked, not 100% happy with the result but
did get a buzz when the threads actually worked.
Not sure what the timber was but didn, t take a thread
so decided to use some ebony inserts for the thread and it
seemed to work ok.included some photos of the weekends
efforts and the final box , it, s been a very big learning
curve , but still a long way to go:o:o
any comments and advice welcome

[powderpost]

Excellent, well done. Two things to keep in mind,
1, give the tools a quick touch up before every thread. Look closely at the top of the chaser and you may notice the points on the chaser are looking slightly down on the top. They are then not sharp.
2, don't be tempted to slow the lathe down too much. The Woodfast midi that I often has a bottom speed of about 350rpm. I have found that to be a good speed. The problem here is, with los speeds the thread is quite to establish a "kink" in the thread, often refered to as a drunken thread.
Don't put too much on making a box yet. Concentrate on cutting good threads. I learned this from experience.

:2tsup:

Jim

[smiife]

QUOTE=powderpost;6028]Excellent, welI done. Two things to keep in mind,
1, give the tools a quick touch up before every thread. Look closely at the top of the chaser and you may notice the points on the chaser are looking slightly down on the top. They are then not sharp.
2, don't be tempted to slow the lathe down too much. The Woodfast midi that I often has a bottom speed of about 350rpm. I have found that to be a good speed. The problem here is, with los speeds the thread is quite to establish a "kink" in the thread, often refered to as a drunken thread.
Don't put too much on making a box yet. Concentrate on cutting good threads. I learned this from experience.

:2tsup:

Jim[/QUOTE]

Thanks jim,
The low speed on my woodfast on pulley4 Is 290rpm,
so maybe alittle too slow, I did notice the thread goes a bit
out of wack about half way:doh:?
I have noticed on the u-tube they all use box wood or similar
Is that the same as our box gum trees?

[Kidbee]

Hi jim,
Thanks for your comments and advice I will take all your points
onboard, what type of timber would you recommend to use as
a beginner , I thought jarrah would have worked well but not
in this case,,

Smiife, not sure what timbers you have access to. I have chased threads on citrus fruit trees, maybe you could try some of the stone fruit woods. Can't vouch for them as I don't have access to those up here.

Jim

Jim, are any Eucalypt woods better than others or are they all the same? Raffan recommends boxwood, African Blackwood, lignum vitae or gidgee. For Cocobolo and ebony he suggests cyanoacrylate application to prevent chipping. He has nothing to say about Eucalypts though.

[powderpost]

Jim, are any Eucalypt woods better than others or are they all the same? Raffan recommends boxwood, African Blackwood, lignum vitae or gidgee. For Cocobolo and ebony he suggests cyanoacrylate application to prevent chipping. He has nothing to say about Eucalypts though.

Hi Kidbee, I haven't turned or worked with a lot of the timbers you have mentioned. I live in a relatively isolated area. There is in excess of 200 named species of eucalypts, I have worked with probably a dozen, chased threads on less than that. I have used quite a bit of ebony and have no trouble chasing threads with it. I use mostly gidgee species, lancewood and others. I have turned sandalwood with some success. There is a lot of species in Australia that would be good. I have also used a variety of citrus woods with success. I have no doubt, a lot of eucalypts would be good too. Any timber is capable of taking a thread if you are prepared to play with cyanoacrylate. I have done that too.

It will depend on what is available to you in your area, as to what will work. I can only suggest that you experiment. Look for any timber that has a tight, dense grain, heavy wood is no indication of suitability. The box mentioned is a northern hemisphere timber and the only contact with that was that my 3' four fold rule, was made from English box. Box is quite different from our "box" which is a common name for a wide group of species, not necessarily part of the eucalypt species.

Jim

[smiife]

Hi guys,
I received a surprise gift this week:o, must have
been a good boy lately:U:U:U, have not had time
to have a play yet , been a bit under the weather
anyway thought i would take a piccy or two , hope
to have time next weekend to try them out !

[powderpost]

That looks good Smiife, now you have no excuses??? :no: :D. I found one of those thread gauges at the local markets, still in the plastic sleeve. Paid $20.00, do you think I got ripped off?? :;. I found that it was not accurate and had to do a bit of subtle panel beating. Check yours against the threads on one of your boxes.

Jim

[Kidbee]

Hi guys,
I received a surprise gift this week:o, must have
been a good boy lately:U:U:U, have not had time
to have a play yet , been a bit under the weather
anyway thought i would take a piccy or two , hope
to have time next weekend to try them out !

Lucky Boy! I see you went for 16 tpi rather than 20 tpi. I am about to place my order for a set as well.

[smiife]

That looks good Smiife, now you have no excuses??? :no: :D. I found one of those thread gauges at the local markets, still in the plastic sleeve. Paid $20.00, do you think I got ripped off?? :;. I found that it was not accurate and had to do a bit of subtle panel beating. Check yours against the threads on one of your boxes.

Jim

Hi jim,
I think the gauges are about $50.00 for the sorby one ! Is that what
you got ?.what was the problem with yours ?


Lucky Boy! I see you went for 16 tpi rather than 20 tpi. I am about to place my order for a set as well.

Hi kidbee,
I would probably have gone with a 20 tpi but they were a present
so I didn, t have a say and I certainly ain, t complaining:U
hurry up and place your order and we can compare threads !:o

[powderpost]

Smiife, the jaws that measure the external thread diameter had been "adjusted" by some one unknown. I discovered the discrepancy after I used the gauge to measure the diameters required to cut the thread. It appeared the gauge had been "adjusted" to measure like a vernier. A little persuasion to "re-adjust", solved the problem.

Jim