More VFD problems.

[mcostello]

I appreciate the help and timely reply in another post earlier on about VFD's. I have wired up the VFD and attempted to start the Lathe motor. No start, no noise trying to start. All parameters correctly set, with the exception of "A"- output amps. The readout says 1.2 amps and We cannot seem to change it. I have the Hyanyang model for a 7.5 HP, single phase in 3 phase out. Motor is a 7.5 Hp, 220 3 phase, 23 amp, 1720 Rpm. At 1.2 amp output would the motor at least hum or slightly try to start?348411348411 How do I proceed from here?

[Stustoys]

Its late here.
I'm not sure what 340.3 means............its not HZ is it? You havent got base freq set at 400hz have you?
I think we'll need a list of your parameters to help.
What parameter is "A" you are talking about?

Good luck, cya in the morning lol

Stuart

[mcostello]

Here are the parameters I have:
PD 001=0
pd 003=60
pd 004=60
pd 005=60
pd 008=220
pd 013=00
pd 014=3
pd 015=3
pd 023=0
pd 044=02
pd 045=03
pd 141=220
pd 142=23 (amps to motor)
pd 143=4
pd 144=1720
pd 151=0 (energy saver)

Hertz a=336
A Rott=12.

I have a Huanyang VFD, Model HYO5D523B. It is rated for a 7.5 HP motor, which is what the name plate says. 220 single phase imput, 220 3 phase output wanted. Motor plate says 23 amps. Vfd is 25 amps. The only problem I see is that DC output seems to be 377 volts, NO DC is wanted or needed. Ac amps output seems to be 1.2 amps as per the digital readout. We tried to change it without any success. The motor does not even try to start, no hum or anything else. There is a suds pump on the lathe rated at 1/2 HP, and it does not try to run either, I have not heard it run. The lathe was started and run for about 5 minutes when I bought it. Where to start troubleshooting?

[BobL]

First thing sI would do is reset everything on the VFD and try a smaller (~1HP) motor.

It absolutely has to have a DC V to generate the 3 phase. That is what a VFD does, it converts 1P AC to DC to 3P AC.

The "u" with the bar on top on the display is the DC voltage.
What is confusing to me is the u-bar should be accompanied by the "A" and "RPM" lights on
When the Hz and A lights are on this refers to how many hours the VFD has been on

Anyway try the reset and a small motor.

[mcostello]

I have no other motor, smaller or otherwise. There is a 1/2 hp coolant motor that also refuses to start.

[Stustoys]

Can you explain what numbers you get on the display when you first turn the VSD(input) on and what is displayed when you press the run button.
I assume you aren't trying to use external switching?
I assume the motor it wired directly to the VSD?


Stuart

[mcostello]

The motor is wired directly to the VFD. The numbers I get on start up are: Power light on, forward light blinks,display is A 000.0. "A" light is on.
Press run and I get A 000.8. Upon shutdown I get a display of E.L.U.N. then powers off.

[BobL]

Did you try the factory reset?

[cba_melbourne]

The motor is wired directly to the VFD. The numbers I get on start up are: Power light on, forward light blinks,display is A 000.0. "A" light is on.
Press run and I get A 000.8. Upon shutdown I get a display of E.L.U.N. then powers off.

I see that you live in the US, where the 220V to your home are made by a center tapped transformer somewhere down the road of 2 times 110V which are out of phase by 180 degrees. In order to really get 220V to the VFD, it is necessary that the two wires going to the VFD are indeed 180 degree out of phase. If you wire them up to be in phase, you will not get 220V. I think that could be your problem, because your ELUN error is a DC bus undervoltage problem. Check the wiring in your fuse box, check the contactor that supplies your vfd power point.

We in Australia (and in Europe) do not use center tapped transformers of two times 110V and 180 degrees apart to provide a two phase 220 or (230 or 240) V to the home. We use another system where three phases are each 120 degrees apart and each have 230V to neutral and 400V between each other. That is why you are likely to get far better support from people in North America that are more familiar with your particular mains power distribution system and the contactors that go with it.


EDIT: the answer to your problem could be on page 2 of this thread: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/printthread.php?t=117229&pp=12&page=1

[mcostello]

Interesting results, I took the receptacle out of its box to get a good connection and the results are as follows: wire # 1 to neutral =407, wire #2 to neutral= 433, wire #3 to neutral= 002. The numbers slowly change, never remaining still. from a high of 433 back down to 117. Does not sound right.

[mcostello]

Checking as You asked: from power line to neutral is 117 for both wires, across both wires is 237. Sounds right.

[Oldneweng]

I appreciate the help and timely reply in another post earlier on about VFD's. I have wired up the VFD and attempted to start the Lathe motor. No start, no noise trying to start. All parameters correctly set, with the exception of "A"- output amps. The readout says 1.2 amps and We cannot seem to change it. I have the Hyanyang model for a 7.5 HP, single phase in 3 phase out. Motor is a 7.5 Hp, 220 3 phase, 23 amp, 1720 Rpm. At 1.2 amp output would the motor at least hum or slightly try to start?348411348411 How do I proceed from here?

Can I ask where you bought this VFD or if you know of any major sellers that stock it?

I have been looking for one of these for a long time now and have not found any that are 220/240v in. I have a 5.0 Hp unit running my lathe which has a 7.5 Hp motor. I can only get about 80Hz (1600rpm) before the VFD shuts down. The lathe is designed to run at the equivalent of 100Hz (2000rpm). It has a 2 speed motor.

Dean

[mcostello]

After spending most of the afternoon on the internet learning about VFD's, I called several companies and talked to tech support. Several people told Me that VFD's and rotary converters must be down sized when used with single phase imputs. Several people wanted to sell Me a 15hp rotary converter to run My 7.5hp lathe. One person said if I don't regularly bog the lathe down I could get by with a 10 hp rotary. Now the Asian Company responds that they will sell Me the next size larger VFD, which is 10 hp for $420, a rotary converter would be a sale price of $750, which includes shipping. The tech says the rotary is made from stock parts which means I can buy repair parts elsewhere. If I buy the rotary converter I feel I would be fortunate getting My money back for the VFD from the big auction site. Trying to decide what is more important, save money now with possible problems sooner or later, or spend the money, scream loud and long and hopefully no problems forever more.

[cba_melbourne]

After spending most of the afternoon on the internet learning about VFD's, I called several companies and talked to tech support. Several people told Me that VFD's and rotary converters must be down sized when used with single phase imputs. Several people wanted to sell Me a 15hp rotary converter to run My 7.5hp lathe. One person said if I don't regularly bog the lathe down I could get by with a 10 hp rotary. Now the Asian Company responds that they will sell Me the next size larger VFD, which is 10 hp for $420, a rotary converter would be a sale price of $750, which includes shipping. The tech says the rotary is made from stock parts which means I can buy repair parts elsewhere. If I buy the rotary converter I feel I would be fortunate getting My money back for the VFD from the big auction site. Trying to decide what is more important, save money now with possible problems sooner or later, or spend the money, scream loud and long and hopefully no problems forever more.

HY05D523B means according to the user manual
HY trade mark
05D5 means the capacity, 5.5kW
23 means voltage rating, 1 or 3 ohase 220V
B is the software version

This inverter will only deliver 5.5kW if hooked up 3-phase 220V. It must be derated if hooked up dingle phase, because only one of its three input rectifiers must carry the whole current, and because the filter capacitors will be too small to cope with the 3 times lower ripple frequency. Without bothering you with the derating formula, in most cases the VFD will only be able to drive a motor of half the HP that it could drive if it was hooked up three phase.

[mcostello]

I have had flurry of emails back and forth with the company I bought the VFD from. They have agreed to take the unit back as defective and issue a refund. A company in the next state makes rotary converters and I am thinking of getting one of them. My motor is 7.5hp. I will probably buy a 10hp converter, another web site claims a 7.5 hp rotary converter only puts out 6.7 hp. The tech says a lathe with a clutch is a much easier start than one with out. I don't see using 1/2 the hp on a regular basis. I will appreciate further advice or comments and will post the outcome when it arrives. Thanks all for the help, Mark.

[BobL]

I am still surprised that, seeing the motor was relatively unloaded, the motor did not start especially if a slow acceleration time is used.
I have run an unloaded 3HP motor with a 2HP VFD without any problems, and both of the 3HP motors I have running with a 3HP VFD will produce 3 real HP @50Hz without any problems.

[cba_melbourne]

Bob, it is not only the limited current rating of the single rectifier diode, compared to the 3 diodes sharing that current in a 3-phase setup. A 5.5kW VFD is designed for 3 phase input (regardless if its a 220V or 380V model). It is designed for the input current being divided among the 3 phases. The OP vas connecting it up single phase, so all the current flows through one diode (pair). That would overload the single diode pair and over time it would fail due to overheating if the VFD power is not derated. Diodes with higher current rating cost more, that is why the makers do not go one or two sizes larger. Here a basic circuit diagram:

348622

However, the overloading of the diode would not prevent the VFD from working initially. A 3-phase VFD is designed with a bus filter capacitor value to smooth out the ripple from a 3-phase rectifier. This is how the unfiltered voltage from a 3-phase rectifier would look like on an oscilloscope:
348624

If the VFD is hooked up only single phase, this is how the unfiltered voltage from the rectifier looks like:
348623
Again, this could be overcome if the manufacturer did use a larger filter capacitor. But capacitors are expensive and large. So for a 3-phase VFD, to keep cost down the designer has to choose a capacitor size appropriate for 3-phase operation, not single phase. Therfore the voltage between the peaks can fall below the trigger voltage for the bus undervoltage alarm.

This is different for the smaller VFD's. The designer will choose both a diode rating and capacitor size to allow safe single phase operation without derating- even when the VFD is always fitted with a rectifier that allows for a 3-phase hookup too. So when purchasing a VFD to be hooked up single phase, make sure it is rated for single phase operation (nearly all VFD's below 3HP are by default). Or else choose a 3-phase VFD that is 2 or 3 sizes larger.