Newbie; Seeking some wood wise words for the southern hemisphere.

[OG]

This post is maybe going to put some peoples teeth on edge (maybe), so I apologise upfront, “please forgive me, I am a newbie”.

I am just getting into the joy of woodwork and I am consequently reading veraciously everything I can get my hands on that is woodwork related.

However most of what I have read comes from the USA or Britain. The problem is that it appears that the wood that is most commonly used there is Oak of one species or another. My current impression is that to them (the Yanks and Poms) it is a common (easy to get) timber, but here in Australia, my impression so far is that Oak is an exotic (with the pricing to match).

So my question is what wood is commonly available here in Australia that is the most suitable in availability, price and working, to act as a good substitute to the Oak used by those in the Northern Hemisphere?

I am not trying to do a direct substitute, I just wonder if there is an Australian timber that is common, affordable and handles like Northern Hemisphere Oak so that I can go out and get the feel and increase my understanding of what they are talking about without killing my budget.

I understand that each wood species is different, so no direct substitution is entirely possible. But is there anyone who can be kind enough to tell me or point me towards a book or a website that will give me a good idea as to what Australian (or commonly available here in Australia) timber is most similar to those timbers found north of the equator?

Everything I have found/read so far about wood similarities and replacement suitability has ignored everything south of the equator.

[abungate]

I am also a newbie. I have found radial pine to be of good use. Its cheap, available in almost any hardware store, and easy to stain (which can make it look like other woords).

In most cases, Ive found it good to work with, but Ive found a few pieces which have been severly warped, so be careful when picking out from the pile at the hardware store.

I'm finding the same problem: Most literature is for the US or UK, not Australia. If you do find anything on the web useful, PLEASE let me know.

Cheers,

Andrew

[ubeaut]

Hi Guys - Have a look in the yellow pages under furniture timbers, and find the major furniture timber supplier for your respective states. Go have a look at what they have in stock and the prices. You may find that pine isn't all that much cheaper than some of the exotics.

Where possible avoid buying from hardware shops most are much dearer than the specialist outlets.

Pine is a good starting point but there is no substitute for the real thing rather than stained pine imitation. It looks a thousand times better and in most instances it works better (especially with some nice new Crown Tools).

Start out with pine and as you progress try the more exotic woods. It isn't so scary when you stuff up a piece of pine as when it is a piece of Mahogeny, Walnut, Oak or some other equally as expensive timber.

Cheers - Neil

[Eastie]

This site might give you some info. If you are wanting a native substitute for Oak, one of the closest locals is Vic Ash/Tas Oak - Eucalyptus regnans.
http://www.tastimber.tas.gov.au/species/species.asp

[This message has been edited by Eastie (edited 04 March 2002).]

[John Saxton]

Hi,perhaps a good guide to research your requirements is an Australian book on wood called "Wood in Australia" by Keith R.Bootle.

An excellent book giving the properties and suggested applications which may be available either from your library or bookseller.
IBSN 0 07 451047 9

This is a book that I have referred to on many an occasion with regards to the functionality of timber for the job at hand.

Hope this helps.
Cheers http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

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Johnno

[Iain]

Oak is not that expensive, I am just finishing off some wall units in that wonderful species Tasmanian Oak which comes from The Tasmanian Oak Tree.
Price is about the same as Pinus Radiata and your stockist may even pass it off as KD Hardwood.
I am paying $3.60 a metre for 120x19 dressed and spend a fair amount of time picking through the pile. The turnover is brisk and if theres nothing I want I go back in a few days and theres a brand new shelf full, up to 5 metres long.
Tas Oak/Vic Ash and will correct you and give it's botanical name, it is a eucalypt and although the two are the same the Tas Oak has a much tighter grain and I find this more appealing for furniture.
Comes up well with Shellawax too on a buff.
For anyone in Melbourne, I get it from Kilsyth Bargain Centre, Canterbury Rd, Kilsyth.

Sorry Eastie, I now see you have addressed the botanical name, back to my corner now.

[This message has been edited by Iain (edited 04 March 2002).]

[Harry]

It's got to be time to consider the source of AUSTRALIAN OAK. I've been guilty in the past of buying it and I've seen the log trucks and I see the drivers and loggers and I've got a family too you know! I've seen the chip mountains and the ships and I work in the printing industry and I've seen the paper and the wasted paper (lots) with a South East Asian (no offence) stamp on the pallets and it makes me wonder how far we want to go with it all? I too are drawn to the beauty and feel of wood to make things, that's understandable to all that read this, I admit I have 'sample' pieces of Huon Pine (from said Lake Pedder) bought through Island Timber in Tas, the same in Murtle, Leather Wood, Blackwood etc, etc I didn't feel that guilty because of the small amount and it came from a registered source but I still new I was contributing to the whole system of the timber industry. I supose it's all about sustainability now, but someone tell me, when does a final line be drawn?

[ubeaut]

Firstly I would like to clear up a little misrepresentation. Tas Oak or what ever else you like to call it is not and never will be anything like Oak. When put up against English, American, Japanese, Siberian, European or any other true oak, it comes off as an extremely poor substitute. Although it does make a pretty good core-stock for oak veneer. Almost as good as chipboard.

Anyone who thinks that Tas oak is a good substitute for the real thing, obviously has never used the real thing. It does have one distinct advantage though, it is about one fifth the price. Some of it works well some of it doesn't splinter. It can make very attractive furniture. But it will never be Oak.

As for the naming of the wood I have copied the following from a post under Timber last year. To find the complete posting do a searsh for Tas Oak in the Timber Forum.

------------------------------------
If we were to follow all the botanical links from all the trees under the same name I could be here for days.

Tasmanian oak is listed under 3 botanical names:
Eucalyptus delagatensis
Eucalyptus obliqua
Eucalyptus regnas

Each of these three have a number of other common name trees listed under their name, they are as follows:

Eucalyptus delagatensis is also known as:
Alpine Ash, Australian Oak, Blue Leaf, Gum-topped Stringybark, Mountain White Gum, Tasmanian Oak, White-top, White-top Stringybark and Woolybutt.

Eucalyptus obliqua is also known as:
Australian Oak, Brown-top, Brown-top Stringybark, Messmate, Messmate Stringybark, Stringybark and Tasmanian Oak.

Eucalyptus regnas is also known as:
Australian Oak, Mountain Ash, Stringy Gum, Swamp Gum, Tasmanian Oak, Victorian Ash and White Mountain Ash.

Many of the above are also listed under other botanical names which in turn also have lists of other common name trees under them.
------------------------------------

Sorry about the rant and rave, but as one who has work with both over the years for carving and restoration of some really fine old antigues, I can only say give me real Oak any time. I am not in anyway knocking the Aussie timbers just the misnaming of them.

My extra 2 bobs worth

Cheers - Neil http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

[Eastie]

"sustainability" - "you know the nullabor plain, we logged that right after we clear felled the simpson rainforest up the oodnadatta" http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif

.........................

As for vic ash - call it what you want http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif - I've heard it called everything from mountain gum to straight box http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/eek.gif
As for picking the different types - I don't recon many people could take that prize.

[This message has been edited by Eastie (edited 05 March 2002).]

[DPB]

So, let's get back to the original question! Is one to conclude that there is no locally available timber that comes close to "real Oak"?

Which brings me back to a question I posed some months back. Why hasn't some enterprising company produced a quality sheet product similar to that available in North America? These products usually have a plywood base with a range of top quality veneer laminates on both surfaces including Oak, Walnut, Ash, etc. These are excellent for furniture making, particularly cabinets.

I know some have the skills to produce their own veneers, but using MDF as a base produces very heavy sheets resulting in extreemly heavy finished furniture.

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[Iain]

They do, I have bought it in the past from a place in Lilydale (which has since closed down http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/frown.gif ) and it was available in Myrtle, Walnut, Mahogany, Maple etc etc. NOt cheap but it was available and I am sure that some other enterprising companies would produce it.
Allboards also have veneered MDF but I cannot comment on the range.

[woodboat]

Now you know what happens when you ask this bunch for an "opinion".
Anyway, I often mill "European" Oaks.
These eminate from old gardens etc.and are predominately either English Oak or Pin Oak.
Although the grain is identical to Oak grown in European Countries, theres about 200 years worth of growth difference. Both species mill up well but are fairly open grained in comparison. Also,as they are usually "one off" trees they usually carry a lot of fault (dead knots, large limbs, heart shake etc.)
So, yes It's around but nothing like european stuff.
John.

[Rod Smith]

G'day all
Tas oak is one I have used a lot. It may not look as good as euro oaks but it looks a lot better than pine. The better quality wood here (adelaide) only comes off saw, unless you to an exotic timber specialist, every time I have rung them I have been shocked by the high price.
As a stain I have used a few diffent colours but I like the dark look of really old oak pieces. A cheap easy stain is brushable bitumen (hydroseal) diluted to suit with turps, at other stains to get a richer colour, say a bit of red or yellow. No good for water based finishes though.
Cheers
Rod

[AlexS]

Getting back to the original question, i.e. a search for a reasonably priced, quality imber (not a substitute for oak), I've found that the cabinet timber places I've dealt with are very helpful to serious newcomers to the trade/hobby, and will help you out. Often, for some reason, they will have a small quantity of a particular timber that they will let you have at less than usual prices. If you're in NSW, try Trend, Canalpie or Sean's establishment in Canberra

[DPB]

Here's what can be done with quality ply's. Sorry for the hobby-horse, but just can't understand the lack of availabilty of this great woodworkers resourse.

<<http://www.grampasworkshop.net/hilda.html>>

[DPB]

Sorry, the address didn't come up in the last submission. Hope this works -if not stuff it!
http://www.grampasworkshop.net/hilda.html

[Alan Hibbard]

Originally posted by DPB:
Here's what can be done with quality ply's. Sorry for the hobby-horse, but just can't understand the lack of availabilty of this great woodworkers resourse.

<<http://www.grampasworkshop.net/hilda.html>>

DPB perhaps I'm missing something... and I can't comment on the following products as I've not personally used them, but they have been recommmended to me.
http://www.brims.com.au

As you will see from the site, a large range of veneered ply panels.

cheers
Alan


[This message has been edited by Alan Hibbard (edited 12 March 2002).]