Router bit quality and range

[Wol]

G'day all.

I have only recently taken up using a router (an old Makia3612) as I have some projects which are better done with one. There seems to be a large number of similarly priced cheaper carbide router bits. These include Torquata/Baladonia, Bunnings Ultra, Carbatec, McJing etc. Are these all from the same factory? (They seem very similar). Is there anything other than chance differences in their quality?

Regards

[RoyG]

G'day all.

I have only recently taken up using a router (an old Makia3612) as I have some projects which are better done with one. There seems to be a large number of similarly priced cheaper carbide router bits. These include Torquata/Baladonia, Bunnings Ultra, Carbatec, McJing etc. Are these all from the same factory? (They seem very similar). Is there anything other than chance differences in their quality?

Regards

I have a few of the McJing router bits. They seem to vary hugely in quality. Some work beautifully, whilst others make a very poor cut. Some of the McJing bits have lost one or more of their carbide inserts when being used - and I can assure you it is not nice having a bit of carbide depart the bit at 20,000 RPM - I had one bit of carbide embed itself in a leather apron I was wearing at the time. If I hadn't been wearing the apron, the bit of carbide would have embedded itself in my abdomen.

I've also tried the "Ultra" router bits from Bunnings. The "Ultra" bits are supposedly made by the same company that makes Freud Router Bits, but from my experience, the quality of the Ultra bits is variable. Some of Carbatec's own brand Router bits are excelent. In particular, I've bought a few of Carbatec's own brand solid carbide spiral cutters and they have been very good, and very affordable.

Since having some issues with some cheaper "DIY Grade" router bits, I've changed over to using better quality bits purchased from trade suppliers.



Carbi-tool are an Australian manufacturer and their router bits are top notch, and reasonably priced. They have a fairly large range of bits. Have a look at their web site where you can buy on-line. http://www.carbitool.com.au/
I've found a few local suppliers of Trade quality tools stock Carbi-tool bits (Glenfords Tools as an example), so it might be worth a check in your local area if you don't want to order over the internet.
Carbatec stock CMT Router bits. They are top notch quality, but can also be pricey.
If you're after a less common router bit, or you're after top quality router bits at value prices, try importing them from Tools Today in the USA. They have a huge range of top quality Amana Router Bits (made in Italy) at very attractive prices, and they will ship to Australia at affordable shipping prices. It takes about 10 to 14 days for the package to arrive, so as long as you can order in advance of when you'll need the bits, Tools Today can be a good proposition.
I've also bought a few Freud Router Bits from US suppliers via Amazon. I've got two of the Freud "Quadra Cut" edge profiling bits. The Quadra Cut bits have extra cutters to reduce tearout, and they certainly work well, especially on wood that's got curly grain that would result in tearout on other styles of router bits.


Hope that helps,

RoyG

[sea dragon]

As a rule of thumb with router bits, you do not get cheap bargains.
I have a variety of brands with which I am pleased, being Whiteside, Infinity, Carb-i-tool, CMT, Freud and Triton.
I also have a few cheaper sets, with bits I rarely use. For the one-offs or little used project, I think you could get by.
Best local manufacturer in Oz is Carb-i-tool.
Timbecon are local for you in Perth and I believe they would stand behind anything they sell.
Similarly, I have always been pleased with how Carbatec have treated me, although I know my good experience has not been universal and I do not know the Perth store.
Your table may be more of an issue to resolve.
Good luck.

[Template Tom]

I have been using Carb-I-Tool cutters for over 30 Years and consider them a great product with an excellent catalogue with details of cutter sizes readily available. Because I use template guides with the router I am able to use a greater variety of cutters especially those without bearings, also I am able to produce a greater variety of projects with the router in the plunge mode and seldom in the table mode.
Template Tom

[elanjacobs]

+10 (yes 10, 1 isn't enough) for Carbitool. Great range, well priced, long lasting and they make custom bits as well.
They're also 200m from work which is handy :rolleyes:

[John Saxton]

To date I have in the main used Carbi-Tool or CMT profiling sets .I have not been able to fault them .To my thinking they last well & only occasionally need a touch up with a diamond stick file.
I am more than happy with those to brands,I have one set of Trend 1/4 " router bits that I bought with a Trend router some years back ...yet to see how they perform over the long term as generally my Router bits are 1/2".

Cheers:)

[aldav]

Good luck sorting the wheat from the chaff with cheaper router bits! If they can't get consistent quality at McJing the rest of us have no hope. :? If you want to be assured of consistent quality you have to buy a 'name' brand.

For cheaper router bits for occasional use I have found Yonico bits from Precision Bits in the US to be good - available on eBay or direct from Precision Bits (made in China not the US). My son has found the Carbatec branded bits quite good for hobby use. The Chinese don't do themselves any favours in this area, they produce multiple qualities, but don't make it possible for the end consumer to tell the good from the bad. So you're in the hands of the retailer. Pretty paint is not an indicator of quality. :no: It's a bit of a shame really because you can get some quite good bits from China or Taiwan at very reasonable prices. However, the unknown quality can be a deal breaker. Even if you find something you're happy with there's no guarantee that all the retailers bits are from the same factory, or that the source manufacturer won't change from one purchase to the next. :oo:

I have never had the opportunity to try 'Arden' router bits from Taiwan, but would not be surprised if they are very good quality.

[Wol]

Thankyou all. It does seem a minefield for the cheaper bits.

At this stage I have no plans to put the old Makita in a table, although it would be possible. It was sitting around unused with my Father in law, of unknown origin, with a broken base plate and the pre-sets had seized. It also has some Stanley Craftsman Carbide bits. I got a new plate from the US, freed the pres-sets, and fired it up. It works great , and I have enjoyed trying out the bits. I might get the missing 3/8 collet and some 3/8 shank bits but they are an odd size.

The only bit I have bought so far is a Torquate 3/4 straight bit which has been fine. I am considering getting one of the cheap Bunnies sets, see what I use a lot, and buy good bits of those. But I also don't want to waste money on bits I am not going to need, nor pay a lot for bits which are not going to get enough use. There is a fair bit of guesswork at this stage.


This woodworking is terribly addictive by the way.
Regards

[elanjacobs]

I wouldn't bother with the 3/8, I don't think there's anything in 3/8 that doesn't come in 1/4 or 1/2.

[perthwoody]

I started with an Ultra set and found them to be OK. When I need a new single bit that I expect to use a lot then I buy better quality.

[Binary01]

If you are stuck at bunnings, definitely go for the Diablo bits (same as Freud, made in Italy) and don't waste the admittedly much smaller amount on the ultra bits. I initially ignored advice and went the cheap bits from a few sources thinking they would be fine for my skill level, but ultimately they were all consistently disappointing and cause more harm than good. Now I only buy Carbitool, Diablo/Freud and CMT, which are all easy to find locally.

[rayintheuk]

"Cheap" router bits are, in reality, anything but cheap. Oh, they cheapen things, like the experience of routing with a good cutter and the results when compared to a higher-end product, but given the run-out some can exhibit, accuracy also takes a nose-dive. The manufacturing process is also considerably inferior when based on price alone. I happen to think it's worth the extra price not to have to worry about inferior carbide breaking free from an inferior cutter shaft, especially large or high-speed varieties.

I always researched the cutter I needed by looking at the catalogue (in my hand or on-line) and the shape of the relevant profile that the cutter produced. Then I simply bought the best one I could find, choosing from the established market leaders such as CMT and Freud. With the use of a suitable cleaning fluid, care in use and correct storage, these bits will outlast me easily.

I now only purchase from one source, the Wealden Tool Company (http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Router_Cutters_1.html), who use British bearings, highest-quality carbide and run an EXCELLENT mail-order business. I have been to their premises (before I realised they did mail order!) and everyone there is a real engineer, dedicated to producing the best cutters in the UK. They ship to Europe and I see no reason why they would not ship further afield. Their range is magnificent, as is the quality of all their cutters and I thoroughly recommend them (I have no connection with the company, other than as a very satisfied customer).

Ray

[Wol]

Thanks all. I appreciate the advice and will give this some more thought.

The router is a Makita 3620 (not 3612) so grateful if a mod can fix that.

I may get the 8 mm collet as Lee Valley and others have a range of 8mm bits which would be better for the bigger sizes.

Regards

[wolften]

For quality cutters, I only use whiteside or Wealdon Tool Company router bits.
I recently had to do a number of mortice locks on a school reno, 19mm in width and 90mm in depth.
I used a Wealdon deep pocket bit (http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Deep_Pocket_233.html). These monsters need to be of a very high quality, considering the depth I had to go with it.
Sitting in my OF 1400 this bit ran true and cut beautifully.
Highly recommend Wealdon Tool Company router bits.

[jw2170]

+2 on the Wealden Tools and Carb-i-tool....

You can buy the Carb-i-tool cutters from this site:

http://www.apworkshop.com.au/

Had good mail order service from them as well as Wealden in UK.

Unless I am buying cheap 10mm straight cutters, I no longer buy from Bunnings or McJing...

Carbatec also carry a good range of CMT cutters.

[kph]

In 40 years of using router bits, one thing I learnt years ago was that you only get what you pay for. The quality of the actual carbide is what matters more than anything. Just do the sums, if its cheap so is the carbide.

[sje-tools]

The quality of the actual carbide is what matters more than anything.

This is the most important certainly when you are looking for better finish cuts - also the grade of tooling steel used for the body of the bits.

In terms of what's bad - the combination of large grain low grade carbide and cheaper tooling steel equals cheap & crappy router bits. The grade of carbide used in many tools is hit and miss and most don't even mention what the carbide grade used is and most people don't appreciate what the differences between the grades are and there uses, the fact is most carbide used for routers bits is primarily for soft woods rather than hard woods.

For Chinese manufacturers they will produce both the cheap & nasty as well as the exceptional - it all depends on what is requested of them - personally I specify all the grades of metals in the bits I have produced and have had nothing but excellent quality tools.

I will say that knowing the manufacturing prices and the price I sell custom designed/produced bits for - the prices of bog standard bits in Oz is ridiculous!

[malb]

I might get the missing 3/8 collet and some 3/8 shank bits but they are an odd size.


I wouldn't bother with the 3/8, I don't think there's anything in 3/8 that doesn't come in 1/4 or 1/2.

About the only bit that might be useful in a 3/8 shank that I can think of would be a 3/8 compression bit. These combine an up spiral bit at the tip and a down spiral at the shank and are used for cutting sheets with laminate both sides such as melamine, or veneered sheets. Commonly used with commercial CNC machines for cutting kitchens etc. The opposing spirals ensure that the cutting thrust is toward the board core from either face so the core supports the surface to minimise chipping.

They are available in both 1/4in and 1/2in sizes as well, but for cutting, 1/4in bits generally have poor chip clearance and 1/2in waste a lot of precious material, so the 3/8in is a real sweet spot for these bits. Being solid carbide, the shank is usually the same nominal size as the bit to eliminate a lot of grinding and waste.

[aldav]

Part of the problem for we users of hand held routers with 1/2" collets, particularly when it comes to solid carbide bits, is that these bits are much more readily available in metric sizes. When I say 'much more readily available' read cheaper. There are two reasons for this, most of these bits are used in CNC machines that have metric collet sets and because the cutting diameter of the bits is the same as the shank. It costs virtually the same amount to have a 5/16" 1/2" shanked bit made as it does a 1/2" bit. To have that 5/16" bit made with a half inch shank doubles the cost compared to having it made with a 8mm shank! :oo:

If you want to use solid carbide metric bits in your router you either have to buy an ER collet adaptor AND a set of collets OR buy 1/2" plain collet adaptors to accommodate the sizes you want to use, be it 4mm, 6mm, 8mm or 10mm. The one disadvantage of using ER collets, apart from the initial cost, is that the adaptor will be at least 50mm long, which could prove inconvenient in certain situations. The big payoff of using either of these options is that the router bits are much cheaper because the manufacturer hasn't had to machine down a 1/2" rod of solid carbide to end up with a bit that only cuts 4 or 6mm diameter.

Cheers,
David

[Wol]

Just to update all this, I ended up getting a bunch of Torquata bits for one off projects. They worked fine in the Little Makita. I put a Triton in a router table, and again, for limited use they have been good in that. One bit failed letting the carbide be free but no harm done and replaced without quibble. A few larger bits I have needed I bought CMT or Freud, especially for flattening wood with a router. I felt safer that way.:U

regards all.

[Nortilus]

Without starting another thread, I'll post in this one.

As a newbie to routing and woodwork in general I have found a lot of very interesting advice on here about brands and quality and so forth. I think it would be safe to say that most reputable brand bits are ok to use for a DIY level and if your willing to spend that bit extra and the higher quality bits that they will last a long time.

However, what would be the most recommended bits to get as a starter?

I managed to pick up a GMC MAG2050R 1/2" 2050W router in very excellent condition (barely used from new as it was too big for him and just sitting in its box) but I have no bits. I was thinking of getting a few cheaper bunnings bits like a straight bit 10mm with 1/2" shank and a flush trim bit and maybe a chamfer bit to start with. But any recommendations on which would be a good starting place would be handy.

[jack620]

One bit failed letting the carbide be free…

Seriously? The carbide separated from the steel shank?

[tonzeyd]

Without starting another thread, I'll post in this one.

As a newbie to routing and woodwork in general I have found a lot of very interesting advice on here about brands and quality and so forth. I think it would be safe to say that most reputable brand bits are ok to use for a DIY level and if your willing to spend that bit extra and the higher quality bits that they will last a long time.

However, what would be the most recommended bits to get as a starter?

I managed to pick up a GMC MAG2050R 1/2" 2050W router in very excellent condition (barely used from new as it was too big for him and just sitting in its box) but I have no bits. I was thinking of getting a few cheaper bunnings bits like a straight bit 10mm with 1/2" shank and a flush trim bit and maybe a chamfer bit to start with. But any recommendations on which would be a good starting place would be handy.

If you've read through this thread you'll notice one very noticeable trend. You get what you pay for. Now, if you want to just dabble or need a bit to "get the job done" there's nothing wrong with buying cheap bits from Bunnings. They'll do the job and a set won't break the bank. However, don't think that they'll last. Think of them more as disposable items rather than reusable. I won't bother putting a "number of uses" on them, but will illustrate with a story. I started off with a cheap set of Ultra bits from Bunnings. Costed around $100, did a few jobs with a couple of the bits, that seemed to work fine. One day did a round over heard a bang. Upon inspection the guide bearing shattered resulting in massive tearout. Almost ruining the project. No one was hurt, but id imagine a flying bearing hitting someone isn't fun.

So long story short, yes you can get the cheaper bits, they'll do the job. But if you do bit of planning ie know what you plan on using and buy only what you need. You'll get better quality bits that will probably last a lifetime with bit of care.

If you're after a recomondation, Carb-i-tool or CMT are my general go to these days. For bits i don't plan on using very much anything sold by Timbecon/Carbatec will also fit the bill.

[aldav]

I wouldn't buy router bits from Bunnings for any purpose. The quality that they sell is unsuitable for even a single use if you want a quality finish. Pay attention to the post above by sje-tools. He and I have both dealt with/currently deal with router bit manufacturers in China. If you pay peanuts you get rubbish. Bunnings is not a supplier of quality tools and probably never will be, it's one area where Masters left them for dead, as for wharehouse prices. :no:

Yes, the 'h' is in warehouse for a reason. Just my 2c.

[John Saxton]

Agree with whats been said ,buy local like Carbi-tool or import good german quality Freud has a good name in tooling.

[Nortilus]

I "bit" the bullet so to speak (sorry for the pun) and bought a straight bit and a round over bit, Freud Brand as they are on sale at Timbecon.

[Wol]

Seriously? The carbide separated from the steel shank?

Indeed! There was no obvious reason, a modest piece of 19x42 pine as I recall for some test cuts for what I cannot remember. The carbide just disintegrated causing an immediate vibration, so I released the power switch and investigated. One of the two carbide flutes had disintegrated or fled, and gone where I am not sure. I was wearing safety goggles, but even so it was slightly disconcerting. I vaguely recall finding some pieces later.

:U

[sje-tools]

Just to drag this old-ish thread up, I am just about to take photos of my new range of trim bits which will be in the website. Since I started out selling tools with a lean towards guitar building (Luthiers), I am continue that trend by adding some high quality down-shear pattern and trim bits to the product range. These bits are produced by the same manufacturer I use for all my other router bits, who are a Taiwanese manufacturer specialising in router bits.

They should be up tonight or tomorrow if anyone is in the market for trim and pattern bits! :)

[sje-tools]

Christmas 2022 prize draw # 136 (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f92/christmas-2022-prize-draw-136-a-249587?highlight=sje-tools)

You can win a set of the bits :)