Needing Some For A Small Surface Grinder Job in Melbourne

[thumbsucker]

I am in the process of restoring an old Waldown press here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=195487). I want to have the table and the flat surface on the foot surface ground and I am wondering if anyone would be interested in taking on the job.

I am happy to reimburse you for your time and effort.

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[.RC.]

You would need a massive surface grinder to do that job me thinks...

[simonl]

Hi mate,

I'm quite happy for you to come around and see what we can achieve using my sg. As RC says, thats a very big work envelope you would need. My sg can do 450mm x 200mm which would cover maybe half of that. I'm not sure, maybe you could do it in two passes.

See what others think but the offer is there. No cost involved. I'm near Hastings.

Simon

[Anorak Bob]

Thumb,

Using a shaper might be an alternate and maybe more appropriate means of refurbishing the base and table. My 10" Douglas was a touch too small to tackle the Waldown base but it did a great job in my opinion on the smaller Tough drill's base. http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=206555&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1335577198

A number of forum members have shapers of a size that would make easy work of the table and base.

You can plug the holes in the table. I used cast iron - http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=153895&p=1502378#post1502378 Others have used epoxy mixed with cast iron dust to good effect also.

BT

[thumbsucker]

Hi Simon - thanks for the offer. When I said small I sort of meant not many pieces. I did not consider what effect the size of the pieces would have. I am in Coburg and Hastings is a long way for a man with no car (going for my licence in a month) and who depends on others to move big things around. However if no one closer can be found then we will have to find a way to take you up on your offer.

[thumbsucker]

Bob thanks for the link. I was leaning toward filling the holes with mild steel rod as it would be easy to get, however cast iron would be nicer. Does Interlloy sell small section of 4E? I might have to commission someone to turn down some plugs for me.

Is Loctite heat resistant? As I am getting the drill press power coated. I was thinking of welding the rod in place.

Bob first time I ever heard of a shaper, interesting tool.

Its like a cross between a surface grinder and a scrapping plane.

I was thinking of using a flap abrasive wheel to grind the deeper dings on the foot down. So that the final finishing would be a quick few passes. Good OR bad Ideas?

Bob I will look at my irregular hole in the middle of the table to see if it could be milled out nice and clean like you did.

I have used metal lathes and milling machines at University but I do not have access to such thing these days.

[KBs PensNmore]

Bob thanks for the link. I was leaning toward filling the holes with mild steel rod as it would be easy to get, however cast iron would be nicer. Does Interlloy sell small section of 4E? I might have to commission someone to turn down some plugs for me. What size cast would you need, have a few off cuts you can have'

Is Loctite heat resistant? As I am getting the drill press power coated. I was thinking of welding the rod in place. Why not paint it, keeping its look original. Powder coat can chip easily, making touch ups harder.

Bob first time I ever heard of a shaper, interesting tool.

Its like a cross between a surface grinder and a scrapping plane.

I was thinking of using a flap abrasive wheel to grind the deeper dings on the foot down. So that the final finishing would be a quick few passes. Good OR bad Ideas?
Bad idea, unless you were good at grinding, as you'd grind hollows into it everywhere, some might be deeper than the ding, making more work.

Bob I will look at my irregular hole in the middle of the table to see if it could be milled out nice and clean like you did.

I have used metal lathes and milling machines at University but I do not have access to such thing these days.

Kryn

[Combustor]

Several quick questions. Does the table rotate around its centre? Is the column mount on the foot casting in the same plane as the main flat surface? If so, it should be possible for someone with a larger lathe to swing each piece in a 4 jaw chuck and take a facing cut on each, perhaps after the unwanted holes have been plugged. Regards,
Combustor.

[kwijibo99]

G'day Thumb,
You are welcome to bring it around and I can have a crack at fly cutting it for you. I'm in Fawkner, I could even swing around and pick you up if necessary. Regarding the holes, some kneed-it epoxy metal will do the job, the fix won't be invisible but it'll be functional.
Cheers,
Greg.

[thumbsucker]

Kryn

I have the following holes sizes - one @ 12mm, 6 @ 6mm, one at 28mm. I am happy to pay for time and postage if you are happy to part with some wrought iron.

All my reading says that powder coating is more durable and less prone to chipping then paint.

OK I wil not use the angle grinder.

Greg

That would be great especially the pick up, are you still happy with a case of beer?

Combustor

I will have to check.

[kwijibo99]

G'day Thumb,
If you can get the CI from Kryn then I can machine the plugs as well. Not sure how hot things get when powder coating, it might be better to plug your holes and machine the table after you get it done. For what it's worth, I'd go with painting rather than powder coat, a decent enamel is plenty strong enough for machine tools. The other thing is unless the base has some really bad damage there's probably no need to machine it but I'm happy to do it if you want. A case of Little Creatures Pale Ale sounds fair.
Cheers,
Greg.

[simonl]

Hi Simon - thanks for the offer. When I said small I sort of meant not many pieces. I did not consider what effect the size of the pieces would have. I am in Coburg and Hastings is a long way for a man with no car (going for my licence in a month) and who depends on others to move big things around. However if no one closer can be found then we will have to find a way to take you up on your offer.

No worries. Bob's idea of using a shaper is probably the best idea but fly cutting will also work well too.

Sounds like you have a plan!

Simon

[thumbsucker]

Greg it is a deal.

I will try to get the RI.

Power Coating goes to 220º.

Most glues fail below that temperature.

So that is why I am leaning toward welding the RI in.

The damage to the base is minor, but I have come this far so I might as well go all out.

I will be in touch.

[Techo1]

G'day Thumb,
You are welcome to bring it around and I can have a crack at fly cutting it for you. I'm in Fawkner, I could even swing around and pick you up if necessary. Regarding the holes, some kneed-it epoxy metal will do the job, the fix won't be invisible but it'll be functional.
Cheers,
Greg.



What type of machine will you attempt to flycut these pieces on Greg?

[kwijibo99]

I'll be using a Thiel Duplex 158, swinging a UPA-4 boring head as a fly cutter.
Making a proper fly cutter is on my to do list but the boring head works fine with small cuts so it's a fair way down.
Cheers,
Greg.

[Machtool]

I'll be using a Thiel Duplex 158, swinging a UPA-4 boring head as a fly cutter.

Is that a 40 taper machine? I have a fly cutter body here if you want to borrow it. I'm in the shop for the rest of the day, excluding a few errands.

Regards Phil.

[Anorak Bob]

Thumb,

If you look at the photo in this link - http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=180755&p=1738211#post1738211 you will notice the flycut surface of the Waldown 3M's table. The table was bought new from Brobo Waldown.

I used spraying enamel on the drill. The only surface that is subject to any abuse is the base. It has chips in the paint but the rest of the drill still looks OK half a decade on.

Bob.

[kwijibo99]

G'day Phil,
Thanks for the offer, I wish it was ISO40 but it's got a propriety taper that is sort of unique to Thiel.
Cheers,
Greg.

[KBs PensNmore]

Kryn

I have the following holes sizes - one @ 12mm, 6 @ 6mm, one at 28mm. I am happy to pay for time and postage if you are happy to part with some wrought iron.

All my reading says that powder coating is more durable and less prone to chipping then paint.

OK I wil not use the angle grinder.

Hi thumbsucker, if you could PM me your address, I'll get the cast offcuts in the post for you. No time or postage cost to you. FREEBIE.:2tsup:
Regards
Kryn

[thumbsucker]

PM's sent to Greg and Kryn.

I will post back in this thread and the Waldown repair thread with updates.

Thanks for everyone help with this metalworking side of my restoration.

Bob I think using the fly cutter will give the surfaces a more authentic factory finish with the lines in the finish, were the surface grinding tends to leave a much more polished plane blade finish to the surface when done well.

As for the powder coating, the primary reason I am outsourcing this step is because I do not have the space to spray, small urban backyard with no space to swing a cat, I have been working on the Waldown on a makeshift table outdoors when the Melbourne winter weather allows as my workshop is for woodworking only and the grease and metal dust/shaving must be kept out. Wood and metal is like oil and water in my books.

[Anorak Bob]

Thumb,

I used Dulux rattle cans when I painted my little Tough Drill. I hung the parts up on the clothes line to spray them. You don't need much room.

I'm not sure if any standard colours in spray cans come close to the original colour Waldown used because I used paint eyematched at an auto paint place and didn't bother looking at cans.

This seller reckons he can match any colour as long as it's a coded automotive colour - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Spray-Max-ACRYLIC-Aerosol-Auto-Paint-Touch-Up-Any-Color-/170579716899 Finding a car painted the same colour as a drill press might be a trick. I know over here there's a firm that will eye match paint for spray cans. I was going to get them to mix up some grey to match my mill but ended up getting the paint matched at Bunnings, well sort of matched.

If you do opt for powdercoating make sure you find out how they want you to mask the areas you don't want coated.

Bob.

[simonl]

Hi Thumb & Bob,

I struggle painting big jobs this time of year. Shed temps struggle to get about 15 deg C and painting in those conditions ends in tears with neverending dry times or wrinkle finishes.

For smaller jobs I take them to work. We have a walk-in drying room and pre-heat the parts on my night shifts. This gives me 14 hours to apply two coats which is easily achieved when the parts are warmed to 30-40 degrees. Luckily my boss is pretty easy going and does not have an issue with it.

Simon

[KBs PensNmore]

Sorry for bit of a side track, any one know of a company that does pressure pack cans of hammertone green paints, and will post???? Wanting to paint some of the gear that I've made.
Kryn

[thumbsucker]

Yesterday I went to kwijibo99 (Greg) to repair the cast iron table and the foot of the drill press.

Here is a photoblog - I took over 150 photos but here are 14 to give you a taste.

This is what the table looked like before we started work.

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Here the table is attached to the milling machine and checked for level.

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The large oblong hole in the centre measured about30mm, so Greg used this special cutter head that cuts from the centre and can expand the hole to a perfect round. This hole was a stepped.

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Plugs were turned from cast iron. To an interference fit. Only one plug was welded in as it was a through hole, the others were blind or stepped holes.

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Here we are drilling out the smaller 1/4" holes & a 10mm hole.

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Here we have all the plugs inserted but not driven home.

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Next we used an end mill to full the extra plug material away.

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Then using the end mill Greg skimmed the top, to remove the dings and dents.

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Lastly we used the fly cutter to mill a uniform surface.

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By this time it was late so we stopped.

We have decided to give the table top a light scrapping to true the surface more, to give a nice cross hatch pattern to the table and to further obscure the plugs.

The plugs are almost hidden, and you have to catch the light at the right angle to see them.

Greg's work was meticulous and precise. It looks so much better then if I had opted for the epoxy glue solution.

Greg and I will catch up sometime in the next week or two to repair the cast iron foot.

At which point the drill press will be ready for powder coating.

[Michael G]

We have decided to give the table top a light scrapping to true the surface more, to give a nice cross hatch pattern to the table and to further obscure the plugs.

The plugs are almost hidden, and you have to catch the light at the right angle to see them.

You could well find that once a bit of light patina develops you won't even be able to see them as they will blend in.
Regardless, nice work.

Michael

[KBs PensNmore]

Nice to see the scraps of cast, going to good use.:2tsup:
Nice work Greg.
Kryn

[thumbsucker]

The other reason for scraping is that the fly cutter created a concave surface, also the travel of the milling machine is limited and it creates two half moons on the surface.


You could well find that once a bit of light patina develops you won't even be able to see them as they will blend in.l

[KBs PensNmore]

The other reason for scraping is that the fly cutter created a concave surface, also the travel of the milling machine is limited and it creates two half moons on the surface.


That's the biggest problem with large fly cutters, only has to be out of tram a second or two, and you get a concave cut. DAMHIKT.
Kryn

[kwijibo99]

Nice write up Helmut and thanks for your kind comments.
I thought the head on my mill was fairly well trammed but when you're swinging a 120mm radius fly-cutter the slightest error soon becomes apparent.
Checking with a straight edge and feeler gauge the table was concave by about a thou in the middle so I broke out the scraper yesterday and got it so a .0015" feeler gauge won't go under at any point. I don't have a surface plate to see how good the surface really is but hopefully it's close enough for a drill press.
All in all this was an interesting little project an I'm glad Helmut is happy with how the table came up in the end.
Cheers,
Greg.

[Machtool]

Checking with a straight edge and feeler gauge the table was concave by about a thou in the middle so I broke out the scraper yesterday and got it so a .001" feeler gauge won't go under at any point. I don't have a surface plate to see how good the surface really is but hopefully it's close enough for a drill press.

It's is plenty good enough for a drill press.

But your welcome to swing past here, and drop it on one of my plates. If your feeling brave, we could mottle it.

Regards Phil.

[thumbsucker]

Helmut is happy with how the table came up in the end.

Greg - I am more then happy, the drill press would not have looked as good when it left the factory.

[kwijibo99]

Using the scraper for something other than fettling castings kind of inspired me so I swung by Carbatec today and bought one of their little granite cheese platters, err I mean surface plates.
I mixed up some blue using Ferric Ferrocyanide from the ebay seller danielwaus mentioned in his rotary table thread and Castrol boating grease which is already blue and it seemed to work pretty well.
I blued up the plate and flipped Helmut's table onto it and the initial result was actually better than I expected.

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You can still see the arc from the fly-cutter down the middle of the table where the mill ran out of travel.
My lack of practice is obvious in the manky looking initial passes but muscle memory kicked in after a while and the areas that I was working on the most are a lot more even.
Don't panic Helmut, my plan is to have a crack tomorrow night to get it even and make the whole thing look better.

Thanks for the offer Phil, I'm not sure if I'd be game to use the mottler without a few practice runs but I might drop by some time to touch up my scraper blade if that's ok.
I've got a couple more boxes of desicant at work too if you can use some.
Cheers,
Greg.

[Machtool]

, I'm not sure if I'd be game to use the mottler without a few practice runs but I might drop by some time to touch up my scraper blade if that's ok.
I have any amount of cast slab's to practice on. Failing that I'll pull out a game and lay a pattern on.

Only country in the world you get this. Post scrapper dudes. Drop in any time and use my grinder, normal rules, if my White van is is the carpark I'm generally inside.

[kwijibo99]

Patched the extended hole in Helmut’s drill press base on the weekend.
The Base as it was with the enlarged mounting hole.

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Cut and shaped a CI plug to fit.

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TIGed the plug into place top and bottom.

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I usually use a 316L filler for cast but the resulting weld is extremely hard. As this needs to be machined post welding, I tried using 70S-2 mild steel filler and it came up pretty nice.
Ground the top weld back flush ready to drill the new hole.

357587

[neksmerj]

Hi Greg,

That's a really neat job of patching up that elongated hole. Do you reckon she'll hold up when you re-drill the hole?

Reckon you might be suddenly inundated with requests to patch up "Swiss cheese" drill press tables etc.

And incidentally, great pics, BT would be proud of those.

Ken

[variant22]

Patched the extended hole in Helmut’s drill press base on the weekend.
The Base as it was with the enlarged mounting hole.

Cut and shaped a CI plug to fit.

I usually use a 316L filler for cast but the resulting weld is extremely hard. As this needs to be machined post welding, I tried using 70S-2 mild steel filler and it came up pretty nice.
Ground the top weld back flush ready to drill the new hole.

Did you have to jump through all the pre-heat hoops welding this?

[thumbsucker]

Looking good Greg. Keep us updated.

[KBs PensNmore]

Hi kwijibo99 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/member.php?u=40428) have plenty more scraps of Cast Iron if needed.
Kryn

[DSEL74]

Nice job boys. Good to see when the forum comes together to give support and get a job done!!!:2tsup:

[kwijibo99]

Thanks for the kind comments fellas.

Ken, the repair should hold up fine, I've made a few repairs in CI using the same welding method including a drill press vice and so far they have all held up. As for doing other tables I'm happy to help out as long as there's no huge hurry to get the job done. The table on one of my own drills is moderately chain drilled and I should repair it one day but it just hasn't been an issue to date.

Variant, as the weld was only small and the base around 5/8" thick I just welded the plug in with no preheat as the chances of cracking were minimal.

Kryn, thanks for the offer of more CI, my daughter wants me to mill what's left of your original block square so she can have a crack at scraping after watching me work on Helmut's table.
I dunno, kids these days. :U

Cheers,
Greg.

[KBs PensNmore]

Kryn, thanks for the offer of more CI, my daughter wants me to mill what's left of your original block square so she can have a crack at scraping after watching me work on Helmut's table. I dunno, kids these days. :U Cheers, Greg.

Hi Greg, Isn't the idea to give them a rough block, and THEY make it square?????? Let me know if more required, so I don't send it for scrap. :doh:
Kryn