And while I was at it....

[IanW]

I've just finished a batch of saws, and wanted to end on a couple for myself. One was the Budgeroo-handled carcase saw I just posted. The other is a saw I've been getting around to for a while. I needed a largish tenon saw & I planned to use Flame oak for its handle, because I have saws with handles in 3 other species of Casaurina, & I thought it would be interesting to add a fourth. I suddenly realised I had used just about every bit of my Flame oak (Allocasaurina inophloia) that might yield a saw handle, and there were only a couple of bits left that might contain a piece large enough for the job. As it turned out, there was only one bit, those wretched wood-chomping grubs that seem to just love Flame oak had lunched on a critical area in the first piece I tried to prepare. :~ So I had to go with option 2, which isn't oriented as well, being essentially 'back' cut, & the rays are emerging vertically on just about every surface. It still has the colour, and still looks interesting, & fortunately the she-oaks are all pretty stable woods once dried to EMC, so I'm not worried about it misbehaving.

I like working with any of the Allocasuarinas for this sort of application, they are hard, but finish easily & have a lovely tactile surface: 352287

The saw is a moderately hefty 14" (350mm), 0.025" plate, 10tpi rip : 352285

So now I have saws with handles of (left to right) Rock oak (A. huegliana), Bull oak (A. leuhmanii), She-oak (A. torulosa) and Flame oak (A. inophloia) : 352286

I did a couple in Lace she-oak a couple of years back, but didn't keep one for myself - sort of wish I had, now..... :U

Cheers,

[DaveTTC]

They are beautiful saws Ian

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[Pittwater Pete]

Very nice set Ian. Thanks for sharing them with us.
Did you make the saw blades as well? And, is there a comprehensive build thread here somewhere? I wouldn't mind giving it a go. Where do you get you handle blank timbers?
Regards.
Pete.

[Nanigai]

These take me back to my younger years Ian, you know about 12 months old and drooling:U
Beautiful work, thanks for sharing.:2tsup::2tsup:

Cheers, Ian

[IanW]

......Did you make the saw blades as well? And, is there a comprehensive build thread here somewhere? I wouldn't mind giving it a go. Where do you get you handle blank timbers?.....

Pete, I didn't make the sawblades (as in smelting the ore! :U), but I did cut them out and tooth them, which is what you meant, of course...

There are numerous threads on saw-making on this forum, & others, but you'll have to search for them. I have long intended to find them all and put up a sticky so that others could read them more conveniently, but the necessary round-tuit hasn't been found, yet. :;

The handle woods I use are from stuff I scrounge/harvest/trade/buy from all sorts of places. The casaurinas here were mostly harvested from windfall trees, but the budgeroo in the previous post I bought from the "Timber joint (http://www.thetimberjoint.com/shop/)", but you need to ask for an appropriate sized piece, as he mostly cuts his stuff into knife-handle sized bits. :C

Cheers,

[DaveTTC]

Ian. When does the smelting process begin ;)

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[Pittwater Pete]

Thanks Ian.
I'll have a look around for the saw making threads and also for a suitable piece of timber for the handle. Come to think of it, I've got a piece of American Walnut that I could make my first one from. It's not particularly remarkable but I think I should start using a piece that I won't be too upset if I should stuff it up. Should I buy an old saw for the blade and refurb it, or do I get a new blank from somewhere? I'm thinking a small open handled dovetail saw for starters. What do you think.

Regards
Pete.

[IanW]

Thanks Ian.
I'll have a look around for the saw making threads and also for a suitable piece of timber for the handle. Come to think of it, I've got a piece of American Walnut that I could make my first one from. It's not particularly remarkable but I think I should start using a piece that I won't be too upset if I should stuff it up. Should I buy an old saw for the blade and refurb it, or do I get a new blank from somewhere? I'm thinking a small open handled dovetail saw for starters. What do you think.

Regards
Pete.

Hi Pete, I think we are spoiled for choice when it comes to handle woods, but Black walnut is a good place to start, I reckon. By coincidence, the very first saw handle I made was from a piece of Walnut. It was to replace the very basic thing that came on a Tyzack saw I bought new in about 1980. I was pleased with my effort at the time, & it's still on that saw, though it's not quite as aesthetically pleasing as the ones I make now. :U There are quite a few open-handle templates on the interweb, and plenty of pics of finished handles on this forum & others to give you inspiration.

For my first go at making the whole thing, I used a blade from an old cheap saw. Even cheapies seem to have reasonably good plate in them. I've made several saws from disposable Irwin back saw blades and they were perfectly acceptable saws. You need to cut off the impulse-hardened teeth, of course, which you can do with a 1mm cutoff wheel in an angle grinder. The hardening doesn't extend more than about half a mm beyond the gullets, so you lose very little metal. The remaining plate is just ordinary spring steel of a suitable temper for saws.

A good rasp or two makes the handle-making job go much more easily. Apart from a knife to cut some of the sharp-edged curves, and a chisel to make clean cuts into the sharp corners where curves meet, I don't use any other edge-tools like spokeshaves. There are so many changes of grain direction, it's easier for me to stick with rasps and coarse files, and clean up with cloth-backed paper and small scrapers made from scraps of saw plate. A decent quality rasp or two make a world of difference, too!

I suppose I should finish with a warning: "Caution, making saws is highly addictive - you may find yourself obsessed by the desire to create the perfect saw....."

:U :U
Cheers,

[Pittwater Pete]

Thanks Ian.

Couple of weeks ago I ordered two new saws from my saw sharpening guy. He gets them from another supplier. Who imports them from England. They arrived today and I was very disappointed. I was expecting soooo much more. The saw blade was full of scratches from machining, the handle was poorly made, loose, and full of sanding scratch marks, not to mention a really bad staining job and a awful colour. Just terrible. And I thought I was getting a half decent saw. I like my 'chuck away' Sandvik much more that this Shefield made saw. I was so disgusted that I didn't even cut anything with it. I will tomorrow. You never know, it may cut really well. Here's hoping.

Now I'm even more determined to make myself something decent. I think I will do as you suggest and refurb one of my old Sandviks. I'll get a start and then get back to you. I'll have questions.

Best regards

Pete.

[planemaker]

Hi Pete. Can you post some photo's of the 2 new saws you purchased.

regards Stewie;

[Pittwater Pete]

I can Stew, but wouldn't that go against forum policy?
I won't have much nice to say about the saws.

P.P.

[Pittwater Pete]

Hey Dave,
If we can't get something decent as a blade, we may need to start smelting :).

Pete.

[DaveTTC]

I can Stew, but wouldn't that go against forum policy?
I won't have much nice to say about the saws.

P.P.
I almost bought a forge back in the 90ies. Bit of blacksmithing would be good fun

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[Pittwater Pete]

You could have made some nice iron handles for the tool chest and saved me some work today :U.

Pete.

[planemaker]

I can Stew, but wouldn't that go against forum policy?
I won't have much nice to say about the saws.

P.P.

Hi Pete. The photo's would help us better understand the quality issues you have with these 2 saws.

Stewie;

[Pittwater Pete]

No sweat Stew, I'll post some pics tomorrow.
I'll cut something too.

Until then.

Pete.

[Sawdust Maker]

Nice handle
seems to be fairly low slung?

[DaveTTC]

....
I've made several saws from disposable Irwin back saw blades and they were perfectly acceptable saws. You need to cut off the impulse-hardened teeth, of course, which you can do with a 1mm cutoff wheel in an angle grinder. The hardening doesn't extend more than about half a mm beyond the gullets, so you lose very little metal. The remaining plate is just ordinary spring steel of a suitable temper for saws.

....
and small scrapers made from scraps of saw plate. A decent quality rasp or two make a world of difference, too!

I suppose I should finish with a warning: "Caution, making saws is highly addictive - you may find yourself obsessed by the desire to create the perfect saw....."

:U :U
Cheers,

Ian I found it interesting you can recycle saws as you mention. Whatbelae do you use as saw plate?

Also does saw plate make a good cabinet scraper. A cabinet scraper is something i e been wanting to make with a small wooded handle but undure how to pin it in place?


Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[IanW]

I guess you could show us the saws & black out the brand stamp to avoid litigation! As long as your criticisms are factual, you should be safe from the lawyers... :U

I can think of a brand that is sold here & made in England. It sells (here) for a good deal more than a Veritas, and since I haven't used one, I can't comment on its cutting abilities, but the handles are about as crude as you can get! You either love or hate the look of the Veritas, and I don't find their fat grips comfortable in my smallish hand, but those I've used at least cut well enough.

As I like to say, all saws become equal after the first sharpening. A handle that feels good in your hand and is angled to suit the main purpose of the saw makes a huge difference, imo. Not only does it make positioning more intuitive, it just adds to the pleasure of using a good tool - you can't help but do better work with a tool that feels right, I reckon.

Go for it Pete. I think re-handling an old blade is an excellent way to begin. You'll soon see it's not all that difficult to end up with a very decent handle if you take a bit of trouble over it. An open 'pistol grip' style is a good starter project, much easier to shape without that extra little tongue of wood getting in the way of the rasp....

Questions always welcomed here. :U
Cheers,

[IanW]

Ian I found it interesting you can recycle saws as you mention. What blade do you use as saw plate......

Dave - someone (kevjed) gave me a bunch of old Irwin 'disposable' backsaw blades. They were used at the school where he was teaching, and they replaced them on a fairly regular basis. From the look of a couple of them, the little dears had been cutting bolts with them, but after removing the flimsy folded steel backs & impulse-hardened teeth, I had some very useful bits of 25 thou plate, roughly 300mm by 75mm. The only drawback to using them was the large holes for mounting in their plastic handles, but I managed to get rid of those in the design. I still have at least one of the saws I made, and it's no different from any other saw in my kit in terms of durability.

To remove the teeth, clamp 'good' side between a couple of bits of straight steel & use a 1mm cutoff wheel in an angle grinder. VZZZT, and they're gone. Before re-toothing, file the cut edge, both to straighten it and to remove any hard spots caused by the cutoff wheel. Best to use an old file getting near the end of its life for that job.


...Also does saw plate make a good cabinet scraper. A cabinet scraper is something i e been wanting to make with a small wooded handle but undure how to pin it in place?

Yup, perfect for the job, if you mean hand-held cabinet scrapers. Old saws about 0.030 (~0.8mm) thick are good for general-purpose work, but I use scraps both thicker & thinner, and they all work fine. Cut em out the same way as above, file, hone, burr edges, and away you go. :U

But maybe you mean something like the Stanley 82 (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan10.htm)? It shouldn't be too difficult to make a similar body using brass plate, & it would be about as strong as the cast iron model Patrick illustrates.

One of the things I've long meant to make myself is a small scraping plane. For that I'll use an old blade out of a small block plane, or something similar (when I finally get a round tuit)..

Cheers,

[Heavansabove]

Thanks Ian.

Couple of weeks ago I ordered two new saws from my saw sharpening guy. He gets them from another supplier. Who imports them from England. They arrived today and I was very disappointed. I was expecting soooo much more. The saw blade was full of scratches from machining, the handle was poorly made, loose, and full of sanding scratch marks, not to mention a really bad staining job and a awful colour. Just terrible. And I thought I was getting a half decent saw. I like my 'chuck away' Sandvik much more that this Shefield made saw. I was so disgusted that I didn't even cut anything with it. I will tomorrow. You never know, it may cut really well. Here's hoping.

Now I'm even more determined to make myself something decent. I think I will do as you suggest and refurb one of my old Sandviks. I'll get a start and then get back to you. I'll have questions.

Best regards

Pete.Pete, you might be interested in the TTTG saw sharpening workshop, https://www.macquarie.nsw.edu.au/course/HSSH. Forum members will note that TTTG workshops are conducted through Macquarie Community College. Saws are typically for sale at the Workshop.

If you need saw plate, I do have a supply of 0.020" thick x 3" wide saw plate suitable for dovetail saws. There are a few of us on here who hope to conduct saw making workshops, the main holdup being suitable workshop facilities. I am also planning to offer NOS saw files when I get organised.

Note that Sandvik saws are hard steel, and chew through files - and need careful setting - so not perhaps the ideal starting point for learning rehabbing/sharpening. Perhaps ok at the TTTG Workshop

Cheers
Peter

[IanW]

....seems to be fairly low slung?..

Not sure what you mean by that, Nick. Are you referring to the amount of blade below the handle?

The hang angle of the grip is high because this is a carcase saw, which will be used mostly for cutting at bench height & his angle ensures that my wrist is in a 'neutral' position when cutting at that height, i.e. neither twisted up nor down.

The handle also needs to be high so it can clear the piece being sawn in a wide, deep cut. The aim here is not to get it too high, or it makes the saw awkward to push. It's less noticeable with small saws, but you may have noted that big ripsaws have their grips quite low down, so that you are pushing directly along the tooth line & only just above it. I've got my grip angles & handle positions pretty well figured out to what suits me, but not necessarily what suits everyone!
:U
Cheers,

[Pittwater Pete]

Hi Stew.

Here are the photos as promised. The timber cut was American Walnut.
Your comments are welcome.
Regards
Pete.
352433352435352436352437352439352440352441352442
352434352443

[planemaker]

Thanks for that Pete.

Stewie;

[Pittwater Pete]

Pete, you might be interested in the TTTG saw sharpening workshop, https://www.macquarie.nsw.edu.au/course/HSSH. Forum members will note that TTTG workshops are conducted through Macquarie Community College. Saws are typically for sale at the Workshop.

If you need saw plate, I do have a supply of 0.020" thick x 3" wide saw plate suitable for dovetail saws. There are a few of us on here who hope to conduct saw making workshops, the main holdup being suitable workshop facilities. I am also planning to offer NOS saw files when I get organised.

Note that Sandvik saws are hard steel, and chew through files - and need careful setting - so not perhaps the ideal starting point for learning rehabbing/sharpening. Perhaps ok at the TTTG Workshop

Cheers
Peter

Hi Heavansabove

We should talk because I have a suitable facility.

Pete.

[Pittwater Pete]

Thanks for that Pete.

Stewie;

I have purposely said nothing, but I am interested in other member responses

Pete.

[Heavansabove]

Interesting, seems Carb-i-tool has branched out into merchanting tools from ... wherever, as well as making router bits - I assume they still make router bits.

The teeth on those saws are sad.

[rob streeper]

They remind me a bit of Soviet or DDR type aesthetics. How do they work?

[Pittwater Pete]

If I keep sawing it hits bottom sooner or later.:(

Pete.

[Nanigai]

I would have been bitterly disappointed if I had purchased these. :sad1:
Cheers, Ian

[Pittwater Pete]

Maybe it's a sign that I need to make my own if I ever want to be happy.

or Ian could make me one:D

Pete.

[rob streeper]

If I keep sawing it hits bottom sooner or later.:(

Pete.

I'd fix them up a bit. First you need to sharpen and set them. Check to see how they cut. If all good then make up some replacement stocks. Wipe the paint/ink off the blades, they'll look better, lacquer thinner first and if that doesn't move the goop then sand them off.

[Pittwater Pete]

All I have to do is;

throw out the handle and make a new one,
file off the teeth,
polish the blade,
refile the teeth,
reset

Then I'm done.

Sounds like a good buy.

Pete.

[Pittwater Pete]

I forgot one thing. Remove the logo so that you never remember what you started with.

Whoops, am I allowed to say that?

Pete.

[rob streeper]

I forgot one thing. Remove the logo so that you never remember what you started with.

Whoops, am I allowed to say that?

Pete.

I don't think your statement is a problem. Honest criticism is both permitted and legal though best done politely.

[Pittwater Pete]

No problem Rob, I'm mild mannered.:D

Pete.

[rob streeper]

At least you've gotten some decent blade steel (hopefully) and some usable screws. I understand that saw blade steel, particularly in larger sizes, is difficult to come by in Australia.

[dusteater]

What is the optimum size for your handle blanks ? I`ll be cranking up the C S in the next few months and if I come across some nice Lace or root burl could be worth passing on.

[rob streeper]

What is the optimum size for your handle blanks ? I`ll be cranking up the C S in the next few months and if I come across some nice Lace or root burl could be worth passing on.

Something between 0.75" and 1.125" thick, Minimum 6" across grain width and, depending on the handle and particular piece of wood, between 6" and 10" long. A longer piece is good if you want to make 2 handles, less wasted in trimmings.

[planemaker]

Hi Pete. A couple of comments on your 2 hand saws.

Your saw sharpening guy may have caused those scratches on both saw plates if he had stoned the tooth set before you received your saws. http://villagecarpenter.blogspot.com.au/2008/01/stoning-your-saw.html

also;

The same saw manufacturer also makes the Pax Brand.
http://www.theunpluggedwoodshop.com/the-good-the-bad-and-the.html

Stewie;

[Pittwater Pete]

Hi Stew.

Thanks for your response.

I don't think the scratches are from the saw doctor. They are extremely uniform indicating machining. My photos probably dont show this very well. I think it's just poor manufacturing but I will check with him tomorrow.
I have used my this very capable saw doctor for 30 years, for all sorts of blade work, and have always been very happy with his work. He was not in his shop when my son picked up the saws, so no discussion was had. I will make a point to see him tomorrow.

I had a nice Pax saw a few years back but I wonder what they are like now.

I'll get back to you tomorrow.

Best regards.

Pete.

[planemaker]

What is the optimum size for your handle blanks ? I`ll be cranking up the C S in the next few months and if I come across some nice Lace or root burl could be worth passing on.

Using non directional grain such as in Burl needs to be managed very carefully. Directional grain is much easier to orientate with saw handle work.

Stewie;

[IanW]

Interesting, Pete - the place where I take my carbide saws for sharpening flog those same saws. I've not been tempted by the look of them. :no:

I would imagine the basic saw is ok (I'm talking about the back saw). Not sure what Peter (heavansabove) meant by the teeth being 'sad', but the close-up of teeth certainly shows some cows & calves! The teeth appear to be filed for ripping (i.e. straight across), which is fine if you wanted it for tenon/dovetail work. The teeth seem to be overset, from the amount of 'dimpling between them, though that may be the lighting. You are supposed to push over the top third of the tooth only, and the bottoms of the gullets should not be distorted. However, this is very difficult to do with small teeth (18 tpi plus) due to the chamfer on the anvil being too crudely machined (& often damaged) & I always get some small distortion with an Eclipse 77 type set, no matter how carefully I adjust it.

Couldn't comment on the hand saw, I would need to use it to know how it performs - your cuts look clean & straight enough. I'd be interested to know if it had been tensioned - most new hand saws aren't, they derive their stiffness from thick plate, which makes them rather clunky. If you get your hands on a nice old pre-WW2 taper-ground saw, you'll soon see what I mean. These feel 'alive' compared with a modern imitation..

"Sad" is what I'd call those bits of wood attached to both saws - you couldn't grace them with the name 'handle'. :C I just can't fathom why manufacturers can't do a little better than that. Even if it cost another few dollars to make something that looked like a handle you'd want to pick up, I'm sure they would more than recoup it in better sales figures! I bought a new Tyzack saw 30 or so years back, and the bit of wood that came attached to it was even fuglier than the picture in the catalogue suggested! So I spent a few hours playing with a piece of Black Walnut, until I had something that I thought was a bit more tolerable to look at (& a lot more pleasant to hold). Not quite what I'd make were I to do a new handle today, but it served me well enough: 352487

It was a perfectly good little saw, and was my 'go to' dovetailer for about 25 years until it was displaced by one of my own saws, mainly because I grew to like lighter backs.
:U
Cheers,

[IanW]

Using non directional grain such as in Burl needs to be managed very carefully. Directional grain is much easier to orientate with saw handle work.

Stewie;

Wot Stewie says. Burl is nice stuff, but you'd need to select your raw material very carefully, for saw handles. I've seen handles made from burl for saws & planes, so it's not impossible. If you could get burls with sufficient 'long grain' to follow through the critical parts where strength is needed, they'd be ok. I've had a couple of burls that I thought might work, but when I cut out the basic shape from one, the grain was hopeless and I was able to snap it across the top easily. Needless to say, I lost interest after that.... :U

Cheers,

PS. To answer your question, it requires a piece about 175 long by 125mm wide by about 23-25mm thick (dressed) for a closed handle - you can squeeze a handle for a small saw (shorter cheeks) from a piece about 150mm long (just!). A 'pistol' or open handle cane be squeezed from a shorter board, if you keep the horns around 'standard' lengths . However, it depends on grain orientation - the dimensions I gave are ok as long as the grain direction is reasonably parallel with the long axis of the board...