And now for something old...

[L.S.Barker1970]

Picked this up a week or so ago, spotted on ebay, had to go into NSW but well worth the long drive, its complete and awaits restoration.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355157/sweepstakes254_zpsotjq2djf.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355156/DSC_0190_zpsms93p1wq.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355156/DSC_0191_zpsabekzgde.jpg
Melbourne Matty.

[Vann]

Wow! What a fascinating piece of old machinery. And complete too.

What sort of condition is it in? Seized or free? Heavy or light rust? I'm envious (not that I've got room...).

Cheers, Vann.

[A Duke]

Hi,
Congratulations, have fun and enjoy.
Regards

[L.S.Barker1970]

Wow! What a fascinating piece of old machinery. And complete too.

What sort of condition is it in? Seized or free? Heavy or light rust? I'm envious (not that I've got room...).

Cheers, Vann.

Hi Van, good to hear from you !
It is in great condition considering its age, no broken parts, every thing moves an turns except the rise and fall of the table, it was to be excepted sitting in the weather all those years.
Nothing a bit of work won't fix, it came with a box of cutters and lots of belts.

Melbourne Matty.

[L.S.Barker1970]

Hi,
Congratulations, have fun and enjoy.
Regards

Thanks Hugh, the plan is to breath life into the old girl again !

Melbourne Matty.

[Pittwater Pete]

What a beauty!
I'd love to see some pics when you start to bring her back to life.
What a great historic piece it will be.
All the best of luck.

Pete.

[DaveTTC]

That looks gorgeous

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[scrounger]

love the look of that one Matty & it'll look even better all painted up.
scrounger

[camoz]

Matty,

I bet that machine has an interesting history, it's been in Australia so long, it probably wouldn't recognise an American accent:U.

I'm glad you saved it, and looking forward to seeing more of it when you get around to it.

Cheers,

Camo

[Hardenfast]

Nice score Matty.

Looking forward to the restoration thread. Whereabouts in NSW did you have to travel to? I have been enduring a self-inflicted eBay ban for a while so didn't even see this one - not that I have anywhere to store anything further at the moment.

Wayne

[hiroller]

That's a very impressive beast!
Any idea what colour they were? The signwriting in the ad speaks loudly of another time.
Hope you can replicate it!

[L.S.Barker1970]

What a beauty!
I'd love to see some pics when you start to bring her back to life.
What a great historic piece it will be.
All the best of luck.

Pete.

Thanks Pete, I will put a heap of pic's up for sure.
The plan is to clean it up and get it running of my brothers Ronaldson Tippet stationary motor.
We will be sticking with the flat belt set up too.

Melbourne Matty.

[L.S.Barker1970]

Thank you Dave and scrounger for your comments !
I am a happy boy to of found this one, its a very rare machine.


Matty,

I bet that machine has an interesting history, it's been in Australia so long, it probably wouldn't recognise an American accent:U.

I'm glad you saved it, and looking forward to seeing more of it when you get around to it.

Cheers,

Camo

Hi Cam, the history was very interesting that the two older guys I bought it of told me, both brothers aged 80 and the other 95 and still very active, I could see this as they helped to load it in to the trailer.
The boys said it had come out of a timber mill in Boorwa NSW and was old when they bought it.
both brothers were farmers as well as saw millers and ran a big rip saw on the property to break down timber.
Cam, it has a H.P.Gregory bronze badge as the importer, this is a company I would like to know more about ..

Melbourne Matty.

[L.S.Barker1970]

Nice score Matty.

Looking forward to the restoration thread. Whereabouts in NSW did you have to travel to? I have been enduring a self-inflicted eBay ban for a while so didn't even see this one - not that I have anywhere to store anything further at the moment.

Wayne

Hi Wayne, we went all the way to Crookwell for this one, left 2:00 in the morning, got there around 10:00 and back too melbourne by around 9:00.
It was a great road trip, we took a friends V8 landcruser, Im sold on one of those, what a beast !

Melbourne Matty.

[L.S.Barker1970]

That's a very impressive beast!
Any idea what colour they were? The signwriting in the ad speaks loudly of another time.
Hope you can replicate it!

Here is an interesting post on the OWWM forum on Eric LaVelle"s sweepstakes machine restoration.
I'm just thinking black for the colour, not sure ..

Old Woodworking Machines • View topic - Rowley & Hermance "Sweepstakes" planer reaches (http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59960&p=419000&hilit=sweepstakes#p419000)

Melbourne Matty.

[camoz]

it has a H.P.Gregory bronze badge as the importer, this is a company I would like to know more about ..

Melbourne Matty.


Matty,

Doing a bit of research for you today, a google search revealed a few catalogue cuts:

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/1901%20General%20machinery_zpsdwzafncc.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/1901%20General%20machinery_zpsdwzafncc.jpg.html)

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/1901%20machinery_zpswbkwhiun.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/1901%20machinery_zpswbkwhiun.jpg.html)

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/1883%20San%20Francisco_zpsfb5fm5pg.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/1883%20San%20Francisco_zpsfb5fm5pg.jpg.html)

My question then became is there any association between H.P Gregory & Co in Sydney Australia and H.P Gregory & Co San Francisco.

The earliest I have found so far in Australia (please note I have not done an exhaustive search) of the Mention of H.P. Gregory & Co relates to an exhibition by the San Francisco company in February 1877

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/17th%20February%201877_zpsv5bofhit.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/17th%20February%201877_zpsv5bofhit.jpg.html)

In 1888 they appear to do another exhibition and are first prize winners

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/11th%20May%201878_zps3unwlllc.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/11th%20May%201878_zps3unwlllc.jpg.html)

In October 1878, there is an article talking about the Paris Exhibition and how impressed everyone was with J.A. Fay & Co machinery. In the article, it mentions that there are already J.A. Fay & Co machines in Australia, thanks to H.P. Gregory & Co who have done a large trade since their arrival in Sydney, and that they are agents for J.A. Fay & Co. This is a good step towards confirming a connection, but unfortunately it doesn't definitively make a connection as San Francisco is not mentioned.

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/5th%20October%201878_zps2jfxosny.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/5th%20October%201878_zps2jfxosny.jpg.html)

In July 1888 there is a meeting in which presumable a director or managers name is mentioned Mr R. W. Finlayson (this may help for later research)

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/30th%20July%201888_zpsxv140riq.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/30th%20July%201888_zpsxv140riq.jpg.html)

In 1880, I finally find a Sydney address (11 Pitt St Sydney), under American Machinery Depot H.P. Gregory & Co

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/1880_zpszrfhfndn.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/1880_zpszrfhfndn.jpg.html)

As always with this kind of research, the answer is found in the most unusual way. An article published in January 1889 describes the recover of believe it or not a box of gold and silver belonging to H.P. Gregory & Co of this city (being Sydney), which had finally been recovered after being dropped during loading into the harbour of Neutral Bay on the 22nd December (someone had a very bad Christmas that year:C, I have not yet found the associated jobs vacant advert:U). The important point for this research is it says it was being transported by Mr H. Shaw Smith (manager) to the firm in San Francisco.

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/16th%20January%201889_zpspui3saru.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/16th%20January%201889_zpspui3saru.jpg.html)

So I think this answers my question.

Cheers,

Camo

P.S. Some other addresses to work with:

Bourke Street West (1888)

[anglesmith]

I have a very early Gregory's "Machinery and Findings" (?) 253 page catalogue. (I'd date it somewhere in 1890s?) Your machine and maker are not in it. It appears that they started in San Francisco and Portland and had an office in 17 Pitt street Sydney.
Graeme

[sion.dovey]

That is such a beautiful machine, machinery from the US in that period is often so elegant. What a dream find, and still a very relevant machine today, very much looking forward to seeing more of it.

[L.S.Barker1970]

I have a very early Gregory's "Machinery and Findings" (?) 253 page catalogue. (I'd date it somewhere in 1890s?) Your machine and maker are not in it. It appears that they started in San Francisco and Portland and had an office in 17 Pitt street Sydney.
Graeme


Graeme, what I would do to see that catalog of yours.

I am wondering if it has any J.A.Fay & Co machinery advertised within its pages ?

Melbourne Matty.

[L.S.Barker1970]

That is such a beautiful machine, machinery from the US in that period is often so elegant. What a dream find, and still a very relevant machine today, very much looking forward to seeing more of it.

Hi Sion, nice to see you in this neck of the woods !
Thanks for your comments, I hope I can do the machine justice.
Looking forward to actually making belting for the machine and running.

Melbourne Matty.

[L.S.Barker1970]

Cam, last but not least, thank you for your amazing research into this firm, once again you seem to get that little bit more out of the subject than I ever can, amazing !
My Research began years ago out of curiosity as to who was the importer of J.A.Fay & Co machinery in to Australia.
The first lucky break was a 1893 catalog gave me a list of agencies, it was something to go of and gave a good indication of agencies world wide at least.


http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355159/sc0000640f_zpsrnirszqe.jpg
Look Closely and you can make out the H.P. Gregory building in Burke St Melbourne

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355159/sc00041092_zpsxfz0kyb5.jpg
Agencies 1893 J.A.Fay Catalog, last catalog before the merger with the Egan Co.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355159/sc0004a12e_zps4b08e0ft.jpg
Agencies 1900 series L catalog J.A.Fay & Egan.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355159/DSC_0001_zps4lvif4hh.jpg
The H.P.Gregory badge on my 1880's J.A.Fay & Co Bandsaw.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355159/_57_zpsx2ugjwbo.jpg
The H.P.Gregory Badge on the "Sweepstakes" moulder.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355159/IMG_8709_zpsc11d8106-1_zpshxzngagz.jpg
The H.P.Gregory (San-Francisco) Badge on an early J.A.Fay & Co Jointer.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355158/image-1_zpsi9zqsukp.png
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355158/image-2_zpsjhggs3gg.png
Melbourne Matty.

[Oldbikerider]

By no means as early as the references already quoted, but I have a couple of older machines that came from H.P. Gregory last century. My Speedax bandsaw from 1932, and my Hyco tablesaw from I think the 1950s both have H.P.Gregory brass badges. I guess a badge of this age is nothing new to you guys.

Sadly there is no evidence of 74 Clarence Street left, but it appears to have once been between these two buildings. https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-33.867202,151.205091,3a,90y,65.56h,83.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sitnTejytkViXeh5ubDBSGw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en

353247

Graham.

[anglesmith]

Graeme, what I would do to see that catalog of yours.

I am wondering if it has any J.A.Fay & Co machinery advertised within its pages ?

Melbourne Matty.

Matty I'm now thinking the catalogue is older, the youngest patent date I've found so far is 1880.
J A Fay.. head their list of sole agencies and at least (roughly counted) 128 pages are about Fay's machines.

Graeme

[hiroller]

There is a copy of the 1890 H.P. Gregory catalog in the National Library in Canberra.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/30888585?q=H.P.+Gregory+&c=book&versionId=37472869
Could have dropped in on the way back from collecting the machine!

[L.S.Barker1970]

By no means as early as the references already quoted, but I have a couple of older machines that came from H.P. Gregory last century. My Speedax bandsaw from 1932, and my Hyco tablesaw from I think the 1950s both have H.P.Gregory brass badges. I guess a badge of this age is nothing new to you guys.

Sadly there is no evidence of 74 Clarence Street left, but it appears to have once been between these two buildings.

Graham.

Graham, Thanks for your input here, its the great little pic's and comments that really make a post like this interesting.
I have seen Later H.P.Gregory Badges (only just recently) as well, and now I'm curious now to find out when they shut down operations in Australia.
It would seem that H.P.Gregory at a certain stage 40's to 50's were concentrating on turning over more smaller machines at a Local level perhaps.
Any thoughts ?

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355160/_12_zpselanmnsk.jpg
Melbourne Matty.

[L.S.Barker1970]

Matty I'm now thinking the catalogue is older, the youngest patent date I've found so far is 1880.
J A Fay.. head their list of sole agencies and at least (roughly counted) 128 pages are about Fay's machines.

Graeme

Hi Graeme, sorry to be cheeky, but I have to ask, are the any Bandsaws that look like this in your catalog ?
If its any help I could probably date you catalog exactly, as I have quite a few early J.A.Fay & Co catalogs ..

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355160/image_zps5oeo7xfh.jpg
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355160/image2_zpswuebjfqw.jpg
Melbourne Matty.

[L.S.Barker1970]

There is a copy of the 1890 H.P. Gregory catalog in the National Library in Canberra.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/30888585?q=H.P.+Gregory+&c=book&versionId=37472869
Could have dropped in on the way back from collecting the machine!

We really messed up there didn't we !
Might be a trip for another day perhaps ..
Thanks for the heads up Hiroller !

Melbourne Matty.

[DaveTTC]

Hi Graeme, sorry to be cheeky, but I have to ask, are the any Bandsaws that look like this in your catalog ?
If its any help I could probably date you catalog exactly, as I have quite a few early J.A.Fay & Co catalogs ..

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355160/image_zps5oeo7xfh.jpg
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355160/image2_zpswuebjfqw.jpg
Melbourne Matty.
First glance i thought that was my bandsaw. Phew ... mine is still on the front veranda back in NSW. Might pick it up in a couple of weeks

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[anglesmith]

Hi Graeme, sorry to be cheeky, but I have to ask, are the any Bandsaws that look like this in your catalog ?
If its any help I could probably date you catalog exactly, as I have quite a few early J.A.Fay & Co catalogs ..

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355160/image_zps5oeo7xfh.jpg
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355160/image2_zpswuebjfqw.jpg
Melbourne Matty.

How about this one?
Graeme

[anglesmith]

Well that seemed to work ! (haven't uploaded before!)

There are 9 Bandsaw in cat.. 4 with top wheels like yours (00, 0 1 and 2) I think No2 looks the same as yours?
BTW Most of the cat... is set out like this with a full page engraving and a page of description.
Graeme

[L.S.Barker1970]

First glance i thought that was my bandsaw. Phew ... mine is still on the front veranda back in NSW. Might pick it up in a couple of weeks

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Dave, tell the truth now, you have a J.A.Fay & Co bandsaw ?
I'd like to see photos if thats possible ?

Melbourne Matty.

[L.S.Barker1970]

Well that seemed to work ! (haven't uploaded before!)

There are 9 Bandsaw in cat.. 4 with top wheels like yours (00, 0 1 and 2) I think No2 looks the same as yours?
BTW Most of the cat... is set out like this with a full page engraving and a page of description.
Graeme

Graeme thank you so much for taking the time to put those up, I really appreciate it.
It is so unusual to see the H.P.Gregory across the top of the page, it must be an amazing catalog.
My thoughts are that it is early, the 1885 J.A.Fay catalog I have shows very much the same catalog cut, the 1893 catalog also similar, but I still believe you copy to be much earlier.
The front cover may also be a good indication of age by looking at the styling of the lettering or the art work.
Another possibility is the address of 17 pitt st, if by the history of when they were there and when they moved to Kent St or 74 Clarence St, may narrow it down, not sure ? Guess we need Camo !!
I did have a lot of luck using this technique to find dates of many of my Thomas Robinson catalogs through addresses, I was using "A Concise History of Thomas Robinson in Australia" from the Technical Flour Millers Association web site.
I hope this helps a little.

Melbourne Matty.

[Oldbikerider]

Matty,

That saw is very similar to mine, but by the look of the badge I posted earlier I'd say mine is older.

Do you own the saw in the photo you posted? If so, I'd like to ask some questions. I'm putting mine together at the moment after a complete strip down and re-paint and I'm missing some parts. Let me know if it's yours, or if you have any more photos and I'll start another thread.

Graham.


Graham, Thanks for your input here, its the great little pic's and comments that really make a post like this interesting.
I have seen Later H.P.Gregory Badges (only just recently) as well, and now I'm curious now to find out when they shut down operations in Australia.
It would seem that H.P.Gregory at a certain stage 40's to 50's were concentrating on turning over more smaller machines at a Local level perhaps.
Any thoughts ?

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355160/_12_zpselanmnsk.jpg
Melbourne Matty.

[L.S.Barker1970]

Matty,

That saw is very similar to mine, but by the look of the badge I posted earlier I'd say mine is older.

Do you own the saw in the photo you posted? If so, I'd like to ask some questions. I'm putting mine together at the moment after a complete strip down and re-paint and I'm missing some parts. Let me know if it's yours, or if you have any more photos and I'll start another thread.

Graham.

Oh Graham I'm afraid not, it was one that was for sale on ebay recently and I was admiring it for its originality and the H.P.Gregory Badge, which I had not seen.
But that said, please start a post, the little Hyco saws were interesting and I'm sure I could impart some advice, in any case I'd love to see what you have been up to !


Melbourne Matty.

[DaveTTC]

Dave, tell the truth now, you have a J.A.Fay & Co bandsaw ?
I'd like to see photos if thats possible ?

Melbourne Matty.
I think mine is a smith and co from Ohio

Its about 100 years old

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[anglesmith]

Three more pages.
Graeme

[L.S.Barker1970]

I think mine is a smith and co from Ohio

Its about 100 years old

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Dave, Would that be H.B.Smith ?
I think your gonna have to do a post !

Melbourne Matty.

[L.S.Barker1970]

Three more pages.
Graeme

Graeme, that style of lettering is 1880's through and through.
I am very impressed with this catalog as an Australian issue, My catalog collection covers German, American and English Machines but early Australian material is very scarce.
Thank you for putting it up here !

Melbourne Matty.

[DaveTTC]

Dave, Would that be H.B.Smith ?
I think your gonna have to do a post !

Melbourne Matty.
Theres a picture of Repliconics motor bike at my jerilderie get together. Bikenon fromt lawn amd bandsaw in background.

Ill be back there in weekend aftet this and try and get fresh pics

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[L.S.Barker1970]

Theres a picture of Repliconics motor bike at my jerilderie get together. Bikenon fromt lawn amd bandsaw in background.

Ill be back there in weekend aftet this and try and get fresh pics

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Hi Dave, I had a look at your picture and your bandsaw in the back ground and it is a "Silvers" made in Salem Ohio.
Very nice machine !

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355162/716-A_zps1knpcsik.jpg
Melbourne Matty.

[DaveTTC]

Hi Dave, I had a look at your picture and your bandsaw in the back ground and it is a "Silvers" made in Salem Ohio.
Very nice machine !

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355162/716-A_zps1knpcsik.jpg
Melbourne Matty.
I look forward to doing a restoration in it. Tires are shot and needs a good clean

I think it is a 26" from memory

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[Uncle Al]

First glance i thought that was my bandsaw. Phew ... mine is still on the front veranda back in NSW. Might pick it up in a couple of weeks

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

I stopped in Jerilderie for lunch at the bakery on Wednesday, and then drove past your old place and can confirm the bandsaw is still on the front verandah. :)

Alan...

[DaveTTC]

I stopped in Jerilderie for lunch at the bakery on Wednesday, and then drove past your old place and can confirm the bandsaw is still on the front verandah. :)

Alan...
Thanks Alan, I can sleep easy now

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art