Lathe Moving Advice

[marty989]

Hi Everyone,

A little while ago I put in a bid in for an old Magnabend at a silent auction. I noticed there was a 330x1000 metal lathe going as well which I put in a cheeky lowball bid in. Well it turns out I won the Magnabend as well as the lathe and now I have to shift it. I apologise for the poor quality photos.

354630 354629

I have done a bit of a search but I had a few more questions.

I'm guessing it is somewhere in the 600-700kg range which is twice as heavy as anything I have shifted in the past. After doing some research it would seem a lot of these styles of lathes came with a lifting plate that mounted in between the ways. If this lathe originally came with one it is long gone. I cant place a sling around the bed as it would crush the leadscrew, can I place put a sling through the webbing?

Can I separate the lathe from the stand or am I better off keeping it all as one unit?

I have the Hafco 1T Engine crane at home, do you think this will be suitable for the lift? I will need to either have the legs straddle it lengthways with the headstock closest to the crane or put it on blocks first so I can get the legs under it and have the lathe going across the cranes legs.

Thanks for your help

[dmac666]

Hi Marty,

When I got my Lathe and then moved house so had to move it again, I used a sling wrapped around the chuck at the head end and through one of the webs at the tail end. Pic below. To move it I used a steal beam overhead supported with acro's and a winch. I would raise it just off the ground then swing it as much as I could and then lower. repeat over and over.
I must admit though I got a mate out with a truck mounted forklift when installing it here, was much easier and safer.
Leave the base on as it will provide a bit of weight down low, lathes are very top heavy.
I did use a engine hoist on my Mill and that worked pretty good, you will want a couple of people to help steady everything though.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4IQGZ8XrZsIfF5HbheaHO9rdITQA9dfZdPPBaCCu6vE=w1234-h925-no

Dave.

[matthew_g]

The last thing I would do is use the chuck or main spindle as a lifting point :oo::oo::oo:

[simonl]

I would loop the endless sling through the bed and attach to a large piece of heavy bar. Make sure this bar captures much of the bed underneath and not just between a webbing. I would also run another sling to the tailstock end. If you have the front sling as close to the headstock (make sure it does not touch the spindle) and with the rear sling in place, you should be able to adjust the balance nicely by moving the saddle and tailstock up/down the bed until the lathe lifts reasonably flat.

I would leave the stand in place at it will make sure the lathe stay upright by being a counter weight to the headstock once lifted.

Simon

[Grahame Collins]

Its relatively easy to move a lathe of that size . The idea to lift from between the bedways is a good one. I have done the same with a 12 x 36 generic chinese lathe.

Are the bases sheet metal, it is hard to tell? If the bases are cast ,the estimation of weight could be be triple on what you think. Mine has sheet metal bases and runs about 450 kgs.

A bit of 10mm steel plate was fitted to the bottom of the ways . Make it the same L & W dimension as the lock plate on the tailstock.-therefore it will fit properly under the ways.

A 16mm stud was passed through a clearance hole in the bottom way plate and top another plate with some 6mm plastic sheet sandwiched under it, to protect the top was fitted and nipped with a nut run down the stud.

A certified 16mm lift eye screwed to the stud. The saddle can be positioned to obtain a good balance point before lifting too high.

I used a new 2 ton sling for safety. The chuck and and tailstock were removed .The lathe model looks recent enough to have camlock fittings so it is relatively easy to remove.

ID mark the chuck position to the spindle if there no such mark already. The secret is to plan it all out and then take your time.

Good luck with it.

Grahame

[Sterob]

I removed the gap and bolted a fabricated lifting plate there( with an eye projecting up past the the chuck ) and I used the tail stock position to balance it.

[PDW]

The last thing I would do is use the chuck or main spindle as a lifting point :oo::oo::oo:

Do you have any idea just how much force it takes to brinell a headstock bearing?

I thought not.

It won't hurt the spindle or the bearings. Having said that, I wouldn't do it if I had a choice.

Lathes are out of balance along the bed and also, a lot of time, across the headstock too. They want to fall over. I would not use an engine hoist if I could use a gantry. I've done it myself without dramas though, most recently a few days ago (smaller lathe though) and if you can straddle the headstock end, it's worth a try.

However you lift it, do not lift any higher than you absolutely have to do - 6 to 10mm off the ground is ample.

A real weak point on those engine cranes is the castors. They're crap and usually rated for only a couple hundred kilos at most. You really want to make sure they're already swivelled to the direction of travel before taking any weight. If they get sideways and you apply a lot of force, there's a risk they'll collapse rather then swivel into alignment.

It's not rocket science moving a machine that size, just take your time and don't skimp on the lifting tackle. I just bought some new 2 tonne soft slings and straps - I think they were about $60 for a pair including postage.

PDW

[nadroj]

Just a long shot, but might be worth checking:
Some lathes are provided with a threaded hole that an eye bolt can be screwed into, somewhere along the bed.

Jordan

[wbleeker]

The last thing I would do is use the chuck or main spindle as a lifting point :oo::oo::oo:
I wouldn't either! But I have seen them do it at H&F Sydney! Never buy anything that isn't in a box!
Will

[.RC.]

The care and cost I put into moving machinery generally is related to how much I value it...

Removing it off the stand would be complicated due to the foot brake...But would possibly make things easier and possibly safer, especially for someone not very experienced...

Do not underestimate how top heavy they can be, nor how quickly things can go wrong....

Make a plan and then remake a plan.. Take your time etc etc..

[Dingo Dog]

Bloke who delivered my lathe from H&F 12 years ago was a fellow who delivered machinery all over Perth metro & country areas. He had a special hook type of gadget that went around the headstock, drove up my driveway as far as he could, hoisted it over the neighbours fence with his big HIAB, placed it down, put a section of 1mm steel plate then moved it on load scates into exactly where i wanted it. Done and dusted in 20 minutes.

Can say I was fretting watching him pick it up with his gadget, cant remember how it exactly worked but do remember it was not clamped or bolted on to the headstock.

Said it was the way he delivered new lathes to owners and picked up second hand ones to take back to H&F depot.

DD

[marty989]

Thanks for the advice so far everyone.

The stand is sheet metal and going by the manual of a few similar lathes, I'm fairly sure of the 600 - 700 weight range. It seems like shifting it with the stand attached is the way to go. Just need to figure out the lifting point.

Thanks for the advice about the castors of the engine crane I'd always assumed they'd be able to take the weight of the cranes rated capacity.

[janvanruth]

if you are planning on using the engine hoist to actually move the lathe i would reconsider
it may be marked as being 1 ton but maybe ,maybe it will lift 1 ton but it will not be able to lift and move 1 ton safely
i move heavy machinery regularly by using a couple of lengths of 18mm steel pipes as rollers
works like a charm and i dont need the hoist as i can tipp one end up 18mm with a crowbar
if you take the length of the pipes generously it will even be moveable sideways without much effort as the steel/steel contact will slide easily
it will enable you to move machinery into tight spaces where the enginehoist wont fit into

[DSEL74]

There has been a bit of chat around the net as to supposed lifting rates of chinese produced products not being accurate and a few you tube videos testing them and failing well under the spec'd loads. I use my engine crane all the time and if the actual owner ever wants it back I'll be buying one at the next sale. It's so useful. But I am conservative with the 1500kg is says it can lift.

Also as mentioned above it may lift the load but may not lift and move. It is my understanding that when moving a 100kg on wheels each wheel must be able to hold the full 100kg as at any point not all wheel will be on the ground due to uneven ground or the forces may shift in direction. A static lift it is assumed all wheels are in contact and the load is shared so each wheel only needs to be rated at 25kg to lift 100kg (based on 4 wheels). This is just my understanding of it and I'm not an expert.

The other thing with the engine crane due to the size of the lathe I suspect you would have to use the arm at it's maximum extension, which reduces it's rated lifting capacity with each extension position.


I know many people have lifted with straps on a chuck, but I have read in my Colchester manual it is not to be done, and that is a 600kg lathe. So I personally would avoid it also.
You can use a large plate under the bed with an eyebolt as an alternative.

[PDW]

I have a brand new engine crane with a rating of 500kg with the boom fully extended, 2 tonnes in its most retracted position. Ebay seller, Chinese manufacture.

It's quite well welded but the castors are poor, nowhere near a 500kg load IMO. Also I think the load ratings are *grossly* over-estimated, nothing even close to a 4:1 SWL to failure load that I'd expect from lifting gear.

So use with great caution. I expect mine may have a close encounter with a welder - and better castors.

PDW

[achjimmy]

If in any doubt get a pro to move it.


Lifting around the headstock or through the bed webbing is pretty much standard.

i would never remove the gap even to swing a large job.

[Combustor]

Have moved my earlier industrial class Chinese lathe a few times now, and have used a forklift each time. It has a very heavy cast iron base with coolant and lube systems built in, and would weigh in above 1.2 tonnes. With tailstock and carriage at the far end of the bed the forks can slip in under the bed casting with some insertion rubber for a cushion, and lift it in a balanced position. The tips of the forks have small holes in them, so I drop a pair of pins through for safety. Carried it slowly but comfortably a few hundred meters down the road to its new home, and then repeated the process with a 2,5 tonne lathe and a larger forklift. Worked fine because we planned the route and procedure and had an assistant or 2 to guide where needed. Many ways to skin a cat.
Combustor.

[.RC.]

Just don't get these chaps to do the shift.. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_nTLIuk6Hk

[simonl]

Just don't get these chaps to do the shift.. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_nTLIuk6Hk

Crickey. I think I just watched a lot of money disappear!

Simon

[Stustoys]

Just don't get these chaps to do the shift.. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_nTLIuk6Hk

Wow they were sure in a hurry, I thought it must have been sped up first time I watched it