Difference between "regular" pine and celery top pine

[djmm]

As the title says, is celery top pine very different compared to the "regular" pine?
I mean in terms of colour and grains. I find pine a bit too white / ikea-ish and I wonder if celery top would be the same...

Anyone know any good coloured timber with interesting grains but still have that clean colour look but not so pale? Only thing I can think of is blackbutt.

[snowyskiesau]

Celery is white when freshly cut but ages to nice yellow colour, and has a very close grain.
The other distinguishing feature is price! It's getting harder to get as well.

http://www.tastimber.tas.gov.au/SpeciesDetailsGeneral.aspx?SpeciesID=9

[RoyG]

When most Australian's refer to "Pine" they are usually referring to Radiata Pine, which is usually very fast grown in plantations, and has growth rings a long way apart. Unless you can get your hands on some really good quality stuff, it will have lots of knots. It's not an Australian native, and was imported from the USA as a plantation tree to produce building lumber - it was never intended for fine furniture when they planted the huge plantations of it, but that's what the cheap pine furniture manufacturers use it for.

Bunya Pine and Hoop Pine tend to be much nicer looking timbers for furniture. It is a fairly pale yellow coloured wood, but like most pines, a lick of Ubeaut Golden Shellac (or an oil) will warm the colour quite nicely, before you apply your final finish. If you can get your hands on some good quality stuff, you'll start to see why the early Australian Brisbane settlers used Hoop Pine and Bunya Pine so much. You'll find a fair bit of furniture grade Hoop Pine in the big timber sales outlets. Quarter sawn Hoop is a particularly overlooked timber for furniture. Hoop Pine and Bunya Pine are technically two different species, but the timber is pretty much identical, with both species often being sold commercially as Hoop Pine.

You might be able to get your hands on some NSW or Qld Kauri Pine. It was a timber prized by the early settlers for furniture and for trim work inside buildings. The early settlers prized to the extent that they nearly made it extinct, but there is now some commercial plantations around and the plantation Kauri looks quite nice.

Another Pine worth looking at, if you see some in one of the timber sales places, is Norfolk Island Pine. Not an Australian mainland native, but there is quite a lot of it grown in northern NSW and SEQ, and I've seen decent supplies furniture grade Norfolk Island Pine in a few of the timber sales places. NI Pine tends to be a pink sort of colour, but has a very nice grain, especially when quarter sawn. You won't be able to buy genuine NI Pine grown on Norfolk Island, due to export restrictions from Norfolk Island. But, the stuff grown on mainland Australia is very nearly as good.

Avoid Celery Top Pine, mainly because it is becoming very rare in the wild, and as a result is much harder to get. There are plenty of other Australian native pines that look just as nice, and that won't break the bank as Celery Top Pine will tend to do (if you can even get your hands on some).

Roy

[Evanism]

Is it true that Celery Top is a bit splintery?

[AlexS]

Is it true that Celery Top is a bit splintery?
Not in my experience. It was nice to use and came up well, and seems to be very stable. However, I'd avoid using it for the reason given in RoyG's last paragraph. There are good alternatives.

I once worked in an office that was lined with backsawn boards of bunya pine, from two trees that had grown on the site. It was a nice golden colour with plenty of figure.

[elanjacobs]

Anyone know any good coloured timber with interesting grains but still have that clean colour look but not so pale?
What colour are you looking for? Open grain or closed grain? Hard or soft?

[artful bodger]

Is it true that Celery Top is a bit splintery?

Not in my experience either.
I once heard a well known turner down here describe it as "carroty". His description flabbergasted me to the point I did not ask for further explanation. Maybe he was getting timber mixed up with salad? Maybe it "is" like turning a carrot?, I don't know as I've never tried turning a carrot. I have turned a fair bit of celery and it is superior to radiata in all regards except possibly sustainability.
Fact is that celery top pine is an old growth timber and takes hundreds of years to mature. It also takes a long time to rot, so it has been quite popular in boatbuilding in the past as well as cladding for houses, even window frames. Building a pole framed house with celery logs use to be a pretty "Hip" thing to do as well.
However that has all changed down here lately.

[John.G]

As already mentioned regular pine in Australia means plantation stuff... Radiata(Monterey), Carribean, or Hoop. All can carry a bit of colour from mature specimens but most of its juvenile plantation material with no colour and a lot of knots. Look for clear boards as an indicator of tree maturity.

Of the natives Kauri is still available on occasion, Bunya is scarce, Celery Top is in short supply though there's plantation material slowly coming on line but beware the dreaded immature white and knotty there too. Of the rainforest conifers Black pine is like hens teeth though you'll still see a bit come out of PNG on occasion, and Brown pine is almost a mythical beast.

White hardwoods as an option would be Silver Quandong which is readily available though not often milled because timber merchants don't order it, Northern Silver Ash which is available most of the time, and White Beech. White Beech is scarce down south to the point of endangered. There's still a fair bit on the Atherton Tablelands but good mill logs are few and far between - its scattered at the best of times and most of what's accessible needs another 50 or so years of growing. What we do get is sold for hull planking afore the tree hits the deck.

[Luke Maddux]

Only a couple of things which have been mentioned in this thread are even "Pine" trees at all.

Pine is the word which refers to the genus Pinus. Of the woods mentioned, only Radiata and Caribbean fall into this category.

There are many Australian native trees which are referred to commonly as Pines, but, to my knowledge, there are no native Australian pines. Anyone aware of one?

Celery top Pine: genus Phyllocladus
Huon Pine: genus Lagarostrobos
King Billy and Pencil Pine: genus Athrotaxis
Hoop/Bunya/Norfolk Pine: genus Araucaria
Kauri Pine: genus Agathis (it's also a Kiwi native, right?)

In my experience with the true pines, they tend to be aromatic and very oily. I would rather work with one of the Australian "Pine" timbers any day of the week.

Huon Pine is my favorite wood on the planet. I also have done a considerable amount of work with King Billy and it's absolutely fantastic in all applications. I have only turned Celery Top. No cabinet work. Nonetheless, I found it pleasant and aesthetically pleasing and would certainly do it again.

So in my experience (as an Australian immigrant), in Australia the term Pine is used interchangeably with "Gymnosperm". Pretty much any non-flowering plant is subject to being called a pine, whereas elsewhere there are further subclasses for these trees like "cedar", "fir", and "spruce". I haven't heard an Australian gymnosperm referred to as these. Yes, QLD Red Cedar is out there, but it's not a gymnosperm.

Anyway, taxonomy nerd-rage aside, all of the Australian pines are great, and Celery Top is no exception. That being said, it's rapidly reaching a point where it is hard to find and expensive, particularly outside of Tasmania. It's far easier to get than Huon and it's not even in the same rareness ballpark as King Billy, but you're going to pay for it. I agree with others that Hoop Pine is a viable second option. I'm planning a project with it very soon.

[Luke Maddux]

I wandered a bit there...

Yes, Celery Top is going to have that wide, broad-rayed look that true pines have.

As far as an alternative... Maybe one of the Tasmanian Eucalypts? Bunnings sells one of them but it's not cheap.

Silver Ash? Alpine Ash?

Silky Oak can be quite light in color.

Someone more well-versed in native timbers could help you there.

[djmm]

Thanks for all the very informative details. The more I know about the timber the more choice it seems lol

[Luke Maddux]

Do you have a specific project in mind, or are you just enquiring kind of generally?

[djmm]

I got projects in mind but not decided on the specifics yet such as the size, wood, or even style.
I think I might try to source some small offcuts to see what colour works best for the room too

[RoyG]

...........Kauri Pine: genus Agathis (it's also a Kiwi native, right?).

Luke,

The "Kauri Tree" in New Zealand is the Agathis australis. The "Kauri Pine" in Australia is the Agathis robusta or Queensland Kauri Pine. Some web sites you might find interesting:

http://www.kauri-museum.com/the-kauri-museum/mighty-kauri-tree_idl=10004_idt=3594_id=21233_.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agathis_robusta

Can't let the Kiwis lay sole claim to all that is good..... :)

RoyG

[AlexS]

Talking of Kauri, there's a good article here (https://www.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/109099/_85_PRINT_LOWRES-A_final.pdf) about The Kauri Project, carried out by woodworkers for the Sydney Royal Botanic Gardens. Takes a little while to open the PDF, but worth it.