could someone please explain!!!

[smiife]

Hi guys,
I have noticed recently the lack of turnings that
appear on the forum, out of 30 posts, maybe only
3or 4 serious turnings !! Where are all the good
turnings / projects that all the forum members
make on a weekend? Is it because of winter ?
Is it because no one has turned anything good ?
Just seems like the forum has gone a bit flat lately!
I was wondering why! We have a great forum to show
and inform each other, learn from the more experienced
turners, but I just havn, t seen it lately:no:
Anyone have any thoughts?
Any comments ?

[chuck1]

I have not posted many photos as I have to check with customer they are ok with me doing so.
It's a Big job of little bits.

[Mobyturns]

I don't turn many pieces but the ones I do turn are usually potential competition entries so I will have to seriously reconsider posting images of my pieces in the future.

[Willy Nelson]

Fair enough, I usually do post mine, but been bust building a shed.
So, I have started another thread with some recent turnings
Cheers
Willy
Jarrahland

[Paul39]

I am working on bowls for the big selling season here, which is fall leaf time in Oct.

I'll put up the photos when finished.

I miss a lot of the old hands of 3 - 5 years ago who were great sources of information. It is possible they got tired of answering the same questions from beginners, over and over.

As I have had much encouragement and help here, I want to give back what I can.

I do wonder at times if some new turners are not capable of a Google search.

[Oldgreybeard]

I have been thinking for some weeks that the forum appears to be 'running out of steam'.


Mobyturns
I don't turn many pieces but the ones I do turn are usually potential competition entries so I will have to seriously reconsider posting images of my pieces in the future.


I think Mobyturns has "nailed it" as I would guess that the decline started shortly after the change of rules for the AWEX exhibition in Melbourne requiring that entries were to be made in the previous 12 months and had not been previously exhibited or published elsewhere. (Ihope I haven't misquoted the change in the rules)

I uderstand the decision as they need to present a competition and exhibition which features 'new work' to attract visitors to the show. But I do feel that this change in the rules has had a detrimental eaffect on our forum - particular the decline in members displaying thier latest work.

Bob.

[TrickinWood]

I am working on bowls for the big selling season here, which is fall leaf time in Oct.

I'll put up the photos when finished.

I miss a lot of the old hands of 3 - 5 years ago who were great sources of information. It is possible they got tired of answering the same questions from beginners, over and over.

As I have had much encouragement and help here, I want to give back what I can.

I do wonder at times if some new turners are not capable of a Google search.

I'm a new turner and will be a participant in this forum, once I get some nice pieces.

Saying that, I'm a Moderator in a very big Apple Forum, and yes it is all well and good for people to use Google, but on the other hand, there is nothing better than going to a forum, asking a question (and trust me, 99.99999% of questions have been asked and can be found on Google) and getting a straight up answer from a dedicated and knowledgable Member. You can Google the crap out of a Question, and spend minutes to hours reading through a lot of posts, to see a glimpse of what you are looking for in the last post . . .

I personally don't last too long in forums where Members say LMGTFY. A post can wield a answer, start o conversation, make friendships and be a wealth of information. A forum is to ask questions and learn, that is why they are here, not to send a newbie to Google and feel unwelcome . . . I plan on staying around, and posting images when I'm set up properly and have something of interest to post :)

[Paul39]

For those to have to look it up:

LMGTFY (Let Me Google That For You) is a website that creates a demonstration of how to conduct a user-specified Google search. The site was designed as a service to tech-savvy people who are frequently asked for help doing research.

[dai sensei]

A lot of turning forums have experienced a downturn in posts. Facebook has had an impact, although nowhere near as good, it seems to be the new thing with various specific groups.

It will be in more interesting to see what happens when the metal working sections of this forum split away into their own forum

[Scott]

Great question smiife.

The AWTEX comment, in my 'opinion', is quite naive.

I've noticed, both here and Facebook, that the sense of 'camaraderie' seems to be dwindling. On all too many occasions the same old guard will subtly denigrate the up and comers with their 'I know best' attitude. More often than not, the newer user will wander away, never to post again. Or, like me, shake my head and contribute occasionally, if at all. This is not only my observation but one of many in our club. In other words, I feel as though these forums and Facebook groups have become 'exclusive' not 'inclusive'.

You also have to ask, why aren't professional Woodturners contributing to this forum (and others)?

I contribute on Facebook more than I do here or show my work to a trusted network of Woodturning friends and mentors. This is where I will receive constructive feedback. Good, bad or otherwise. I like to improve, not turn up my nose at foolish or uneducated comments. My network of woodturning friends are also 'mates'. We look after, support and encourage each other no matter what. Here? Meh.

I do think Australia needs something like the American Association of Woodturners. (http://www.woodturner.org) A proper constitution with democratically elected members that are proud of all members, new, old, experienced or otherwise would be beneficial. This would also showcase the best of Australian woodturners. Until then I think we'll continually suffer under the weight of stymied talent.

[Christos]

When I started turning I posted the first pieces and was proud as punch to have created something. I know it as not very good but it was something that I made.

For those that are new to turning please don't be concerned about a standard for presentation. Just post it and ask for comments. Treat this as feedback or at the very least a different perspective, it might inspire you to try create another piece with a slight modification.
Also don't be concern if not everyone likes the piece. We are all different and that what makes our world great.

I will admit that I have not posted anything of late but that's because family life has been busy. So the five pieces are gathering dust in the shed. I hope they don't warp too much before I get to them.

[Sturdee]

As a long term member and a former prolific poster but now limiting myself to posting on what directly concern me I suppose I should explain why I've become a virtual lurker.

A number of points have been raised, some I agree with wholeheartedly others I disagree with, but I believe that the increasingly nasty attitude of some members, making derogatory and insulting posts, that has been invading the board has a lot to do with the falling away of interest by long term members.

Recently I was the victim of some very nasty and vitriolic abuse sent to me through the pm system by a member and yet I was stopped from exposing him by posting those pm's.

I don't think I'm an isolated case, others come to mind, and I doubt much can be done as this is becoming more and more prevalent in this wonderful world of social media.

Others may disagree with this but I've reached the stage in life where I don't care to put up with this attitude anymore.

Peter.

[BobL]

The problem is not just in woodturning but applies to any sort of craft.

I think Christos has a point here combined with the increasing overwhelming volume of good stuff already posted on line.

Most newbies have probably spent hours or days browsing this and other sites.
Then when they make their first pieces, and as to be expected they turn out looking average, there may not seem any incentive to posting pics of their output.

The same in a sense may apply to experienced craftspersons.
It's getting harder and harder to show something new/original and even though they might produce a high quality piece, it may not be outstanding/new/original so they don't see a need to post it.

[Big Shed]

As a long term member and a former prolific poster but now limiting myself to posting on what directly concern me I suppose I should explain why I've become a virtual lurker.

A number of points have been raised, some I agree with wholeheartedly others I disagree with, but I believe that the increasingly nasty attitude of some members, making derogatory and insulting posts, that has been invading the board has a lot to do with the falling away of interest by long term members.

Recently I was the victim of some very nasty and vitriolic abuse sent to me through the pm system by a member and yet I was stopped from exposing him by posting those pm's.

I don't think I'm an isolated case, others come to mind, and I doubt much can be done as this is becoming more and more prevalent in this wonderful world of social media.

Others may disagree with this but I've reached the stage in life where I don't care to put up with this attitude anymore.

Peter.


Peter, publishing nasty/vitriolic PMs on open forum is not the way to handle this. Don't forget that the P in PM stands for Private. If you or any member gets abusive or inappropriate PMs from another forum member the correct way to deal that is to report them to Admin/Mods, who WILL deal with them and take appropriate action.

Naming and shaming is likewise not appropriate.

[Scott]

Peter, you have my full and unqualified support on this.

[Gabriel]

As a learner, I love putting my pieces up for c&c as it's the only way I will learn, and I dont have enough time to visit my local club (I have been down twice and love it, but time restraints have stepped in)...

Sure, I have made a few pieces which I haven't bothered showing as they are nothing new or exciting, and most of the pens I have turned I haven't put up because unless the timber is something amazing, I don't think it's worth it (I'm about to dive into stabilizing and resin so watch this space).

I love the discussions that go on either about turning, or ideas/concepts and read most new posts even if I have no understanding of the topic. When I can offer advice (albeit rarely) i love to help out.

I'd also say that the middle of winter, being dark by the time I get home from work I don't have as much enthusiasm as the warmer months.

For what it's worth, I'll be posting any projects I manage not to butcher in the future and encourage others to do the same

Cheers
Gab

[Sturdee]

Anyone have any thoughts?
Any comments ?

Before posting I thought long and hard about what and how to say what I believe is a major cause for the decline in postings and that is the more and more emerging nasty attitude.

I suppose I was foolish in telling my personal experience thinking it would help Smiife to understand my absence and I did not expect, nor appreciate, such immediate reaction from Big Shed.

Maybe the heavy handed moderation practices also have a bearing on this subject, something that others might like to consider but I'm chastised enough today.

Peter.

[Christos]

.....

I suppose I was foolish in telling my personal experience thinking it would help Smiife to understand my absence and I did not expect, nor appreciate, such immediate reaction from Big Shed.

Maybe the heavy handed moderation practices also have a bearing on this subject, something that others might like to consider but I'm chastised enough today.

Peter.

Normally as part of the moderators I would not be posting a reply but I think will benefit other members that are in a similar situation on receiving PM's of a nature that are less then civil.

If you still have these PM's that have caused distress I am requesting that you report these by pressing the little triangle on the bottom of the PM. This will send a report to the Admin and Moderators.

We will then be able to evaluate these PM as outside observers and determine the action accordingly.

On another note and as one of the members of the forum I hope that the PM's received will not deter you from continuing to be part of the forum.

[Ironwood]

The Penturning Forum has suffered a similar but worse exodus. Quite a few years ago it was a lively and friendly forum, but over time members just dropped off for whatever reason and it has dwindled to just a handful of sporadic posters.
I have heard Facebook was to blame by a few people, I am not sure on this , I don't have a Facebook account so I don't know what the attraction is.
I did see a bit of animosity between a couple of members and they stopped posting, maybe they went to Facebook and others followed . Who Knows ?

The lack of activity has a negative affect on attracting and retaining new members, so it will just continue to dwindle.

[Osbojo]

I don't know if it's relevant (and off topic a bit?) but we are seeing a similar trend in our club's activities. It appears that 80-90% of show and tell items are provided by 10-15% of members and critique session and workshop session numbers are down. membership has in fact risen by a few percent so that's no the issue and it's no colder in Melbourne this year than any other (well, maybe a bit!) and looking back at our records we haven't seen this drop off in previous years.

As for AWTEX, I don't believe that displaying items at forums such as this and certainly not at club S&T was ever the intent of the rule change. Maybe one of the Committee could verify, I know one or two linger here.

As for posting photos, I for one don't feel my humble efforts are worthy given the quality of work seen on this forum!

[Mobyturns]

As for all forums facing a drop off in interest levels and posts I think it is probably true. What I do notice though is that a number of "active posters" share their work on multiple forums which is also affecting interest levels from lurkers. Why visit more than one forum when you are probably going to see the same items posted to FB, SMC, AAW, WWF etc? I'm certainly not knocking those who post & wish to thank them for sharing images or commentary.

My comment about reconsidering posting of images was somewhat tongue in cheek, but also had an element of truth to it. I'm not a very prolific turner of larger items of interest to the forum because a lot of my turning is for relaxation. I simply like making spinning tops and other small items. I have definitely reconsidered posting images of some of my work because of the AWTEX rules. I did not enter the comp this year because my potential entries were very close in design etc to items I had already shown & frankly I did not wish to face any hassles.

I can understand Sturdee's concerns. It definitely goes on.

[fozz]

I started off on this forum to learn as much as I could about woodturning. In doing that and not having a lathe of my own at the start I decided the best way to start learning was to read the forum and by that I do mean all of the forum. I have noticed over the years how the forum posts have ebbed and flowed, the usual bunch having a tongue in cheek dig at each other but over all the transfer of knowledge from the old to the new. I never posted a great deal unless I had a project such as a review of a tool or restoration of a lathe/lathes purely because both here and in real life idle banter has not been my thing. I've always preferred to sit back and listen unless I felt I had something of value to offer.
I have noticed a major change in this forum over the last couple of years and quite frankly it has left me with a bad taste in the mouth. Where once you could have your say on a topic whether right or wrong I now see posts edited or just deleted leaving the rest of the thread unintelligible by those such as myself who don't view the forum everyday. This heavy handed approach is fine for children but not for adults IMHO, the adults may act like kids at times but altering posts because someone is upset is childish in the extreme as is censoring someone in a post for a perceived wrong doing such as naming names then doing exactly the same thing in a following post.
As for the old guard leaving I have caught up with a number of them on Facebook and they all say the same thing, censoring and editing of posts and the double standards that have crept in over the last few years has left a decided bad taste in their collective mouths.
Anyway, as I stated preciously I post when I feel I have something that may help this forum and others who come here to read and learn, hopefully some will read this and think about their actions and the perceived power they have and act accordingly for the betterment of the forum.
Regards to all
Ross.

[Tim the Timber Turner]

I no longer post on this forum but I do lurk sometimes.

Here are a couple of random thoughts before I get in the reasons for being missing in action.

1: All of the humour has disappeared. It is no longer a fun site where one can have a friendly verbal with other members.

2: The standard or moderating has fallen right off since "Retired" retired. He was a wealth of woodturning knowledge and always up for a bit of verbal, all in good fun.
"Play nicely kiddies" usually kept things in order when things started to get out of hand or members got close to crossing that invisible line.

Now for my reasons for no longer being active now.

For the reasons of clarity I'm going to name a couple of members here.

I protested at the continual postings about safety by Mobyturns and suggested they should be moved to the appropriate forum so the rest of us could muse about woodturning. The response I
received from Moby was
"If you don't like it don't read it".
Real friendly, I don't think.
Interestingly I had a couple of PMs in support of my views.

To a lesser extent I felt BobL long technical posts about dust extraction didn't belong on this forum but should be on the Dust Extraction forum.

I guess you both wanted to post where there was the most traffic.

This is not a personal attack guys. I'm just expressing my reasons for leaving this site after 14 years.

You may agree or disagree but those are my reasons

I'm in agreement with Sturdee's thoughts.

Why should I spend my time sharing my knowledge and trying to help others when I no longer enjoy the aggressive nature of some of the posters.

There are better places to be.

The bottom line is this site is no longer fun.

Cheers

Tim

[ubeaut]

If a mod edits or deletes a post for being aggressive, nasty, a personal attack or for any other reason that it should be deleted or edited they are called bastards and accused of over moderating and ruining the forums, usually by a very small hand full of the same few people.

If on the other hand they leave it and don't edit or delete an offending post they are accused of not doing their job and people leave because of the nastiness of a few people who seem to be intent on putting down others or just won't take their medication.

The moderators are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

It's a no win situation for mods and I'll bet if any of the complainants were mods they would act in exactly the same way, possibly even more heavy handed and have to be told to settle down.

Most members don't see even 1% of the garbage that is deleted and if it were not moderated there would be an outcry and the forums would be in a complete shambles. As an aside, most of the edited or deleted threads are done because they are reported by members.

You all have the power to report posts, and PM's. If you do then action may be taken against the offender(s) if deemed to be warranted. If you choose not to report offensive PM's then that is your choice but don't come crying to the mods when it gets out of hand and don't take it on to the open forums as this will most likely be edited because members will report it or just because that's not what we do here.

These forums are still one of the best run forums on the internet thanks to vigilant members and a great team of moderators. You don't know just how luck you all are.

As for the humour being gone... It hasn't gone just that the senseless drivel and stupid, funny to some annoying to others comments and hijackings have disappeared and most reasonable members are thankful for that.

Neil

[Mobyturns]

I protested at the continual postings about safety by Mobyturns and suggested they should be moved to the appropriate forum so the rest of us could muse about woodturning. The response I
received from Moby was
"If you don't like it don't read it".
Real friendly, I don't think.
Interestingly I had a couple of PMs in support of my views.

Cheers

Tim

Tim, I have no problems with being named and truly appreciate your honesty and for being so candid. Unfortunately words and our in/ability (?) to convey our true emotions in the written word do not come out how we would like them to be interpreted. Not knowing a poster personally also makes it difficult to place a comment in context with the posters character.

My comment about "If you don't like it don't read it" is exactly that - its the readers choice to read on. :) As others have mentioned there are members who get offended by another's opinion then pursue the poster. I have faced a few attacks on this and other forums and some rather unpleasant emails over the years. Frankly I don't bother to read the vitriolic ones. :p There are a few members of WWF who know me personally and know that I am very pro safety and that I am one of the first to offer assistance to any turner who requires assistance. If I can help I will but if they don't want my help I back away.

One thing I will never apologize for is my stance on safety - far to many turners take unnecessary risks that can easily be reduced or totally avoided. Wheter the post goes in Safety or Woodturning does not really bother me, however it seems illogical to pigeon hole off a conversation about woodturning safety into a sub-forum that few woodturners read anyway. :D I will always stand by what I say.

Cheers
Geoff Whaling. (Mobyturns)

[Scott]

Neil, it's unfortunate that you have reacted this way. Predictably so may I add. Understandably because you own these forums.

I've already taken one of your mods to task in the last 24 hours for being highly hypocritical. However I did so in a PM. I understand that some members write some pretty awful stuff here and their posts deserve to be edited or deleted. Heck, I've had few edited (and deleted) in the past. My bad. BUT when one of your mods admonish someone for naming and shaming THEN shame the user publicly themselves, then I wince.

Some members here have made some extremely valid points on the subject originally raised. If these can't be acknowledged and taken aboard then I consider the forums are going to dwindle to a select few. I think that the moderators here do a brilliant job. But they've become too focused upon being vigilant and ceased being helpful. I've lost count at how many times I've seen moderators and seasoned users deride newer or less experienced users for asking simple questions. And, I consider that many of your moderators and experienced users (I'll have to exclude Christos here) have adopted a 'I know best, your point is irrelevant' stance.

Not that it matters however you have lost me from these forums, I lurk more than contribute. Many others have gone this way as well. More are on their way.

[Sturdee]

You all have the power to report posts, and PM's. If you do then action may be taken against the offender(s) if deemed to be warranted. If you choose not to report offensive PM's then that is your choice but don't come crying to the mods when it gets out of hand and don't take it on to the open forums as this will most likely be edited because members will report it or just because that's not what we do here.

Neil

Neil,

After my last post I wanted to leave the subject alone so that the subject matter could be further explored by others but I feel I ought to comment on matters now raised.

At the time I was not aware of the policy of not allowing "naming and shaming" of members who sent nasty, vitriolic and downright malicious messages through the pm system. I still think that policy is wrong but I accept that are your rules.

Nevertheless by reading and deleting the post the moderator became aware of the full text of the messages, and available to all mods to read as deleted posts are only deleted from public view,and the mod obviously did not deem it sufficient to take any action about it. At least as far as I'm aware. Instead I seem to be watched and victimised whilst my nemesis can continue with impunity.

Also the comment made about P of PM stands for private is a furphy as it only relates in so far as distinguishing the system from the public system being the forums. According to my legal friends the right to make a private message is not absolute and the recipient of same can publish the contents wherever he wishes, be it forums, other blogs or even in newspapers.

But let us not get bogged down in technicalities and let's get back to the subject in hand.

Peter.

[TrickinWood]

Neil,

After my last post I wanted to leave the subject alone so that the subject matter could be further explored by others but I feel I ought to comment on matters now raised.

At the time I was not aware of the policy of not allowing "naming and shaming" of members who sent nasty, vitriolic and downright malicious messages through the pm system. I still think that policy is wrong but I accept that are your rules.

Nevertheless by reading and deleting the post the moderator became aware of the full text of the messages, and available to all mods to read as deleted posts are only deleted from public view,and the mod obviously did not deem it sufficient to take any action about it. At least as far as I'm aware. Instead I seem to be watched and victimised whilst my nemesis can continue with impunity.

Also the comment made about P of PM stands for private is a furphy as it only relates in so far as distinguishing the system from the public system being the forums. According to my legal friends the right to make a private message is not absolute and the recipient of same can publish the contents wherever he wishes, be it forums, other blogs or even in newspapers.

But let us not get bogged down in technicalities and let's get back to the subject in hand.

Peter.

This doesn't bode well for the forums, if the members dont have confidence in the Moderators, and from what i have seen, they seem to be taking the blame. Being new, i cannot comment on their doings, but what people need to remember, is they do this job for FREE.
As Neil mentioned, dammed if you do, dammed if you dont. I agree that deleting the Pm's is the correct thing to do, BUT, if someone is playing up in a thread, the Mods then should step in and publicly warn them. This will usually quiet the offender down.
In my Apple forum, the policy there is simple, if you wouldnt read something in a Disney Forum, then dont write it here.

Im really hoping this isnt the problem here, but the Report feature is the one of the best features to use. Even if you think a Mod is out of line, PM another Mod (or if there is a Admin here) and lt it be known you are not happy with the way something was conducted. Every single member should be able to feel safe and not violated in a public forum, and be allowed to ask whatever questions they like, without being ridiculed, but im not one for holding my tounge either.

The reason i am here, is because i want to be in a Aussie Wood Forum, because the 'others' dont understand our sense of humour, and Aussies will know Aussie wood.

Any way, that is my take on it, but i find it unnerving if people think the reason the forum is quiet is because of the Mods . . . . Will be something to watch.

[dazzler]

There are probably a bunch of reasons and many forums seem to have falling participation. I have been on forums of every hobby I have been interested in virtually since the start of the internet (9600k modem from memory).

The ones that seem to have falling participation often have;

- Very specific technical content
- Very experienced members with technical knowledge but the inability to know when to shut the hell up (I suck at this bit on another forum)
- A number of ways to achieve the same outcome but members not accepting of this
- A high number of 'mature' members who get stuck in their ways (mature members seem to take things much more personally and as a personal attack on them)
- Moderators who have moderated the same forum for more than a couple of years (they end up like cops - everyone is a prick till proven ok :wink: )
- A single person in charge of the forum - (like a sole trader business it may struggle to grow and change)
- Interests change and people move on. The 'flavour' of the place changes. The banter and p&*& taking that was understood with each personality at the start gets lost in translation as people leave and others arrive
- A couple of new personalities arrive and cause havoc. One of my favorite forums has been virtually destroyed by this sadly.

Thats my generic take on struggling forums for what its worth. Sometimes it is good to know when to move on and let others make their mark. :)

[Woodturnerjosh]

I haven't been a poster on the forums in a while (and to be honest I've completely missed all the unpleasantness, but I usually put it down to the usual keyboard warriors if I see it) but I don't post pictures of my work simply because it's easier to do on Facebook. I usually use my phone to take photos of things in the shed and it's much easier to upload from there than to put it on the computer, re-size it and then post online. That's pretty much the only reason for me.

Josh

[Dalboy]

Hi guys,
I have noticed recently the lack of turnings that
appear on the forum, out of 30 posts, maybe only
3or 4 serious turnings !!

This is nothing new as on many forums I find this is the case there seems plenty of questions which is great for the turner as this is one of the reasons for forums.

Another thing that I have noticed is that when someone does post a piece for Comment or just to show their work that many will not make a comment for a couple of reasons first I think people are afraid to say that a piece is wrong just in case they offend the poster so they either don't post or just say "That is good" or words to that effect, I believe that if someone makes a negative comment it should be accompanied with a short piece on why.
Secondly I think the "Like" button gets used to much instead of leaving a comment and should be disposed of all together. Yes I have been guilty of using it as well

Also something I have noticed is that turners who seem to move up the scale and start producing better than average work(I use that term loosely) seem to move from one forum to another to stay in that group who also produce that level of work.

I am guilty of not showing a lot in this section as I have been playing with casting my own blanks and turning pens as well as following things in the toymaking section.

[TrickinWood]

I haven't been a poster on the forums in a while (and to be honest I've completely missed all the unpleasantness, but I usually put it down to the usual keyboard warriors if I see it) but I don't post pictures of my work simply because it's easier to do on Facebook. I usually use my phone to take photos of things in the shed and it's much easier to upload from there than to put it on the computer, re-size it and then post online. That's pretty much the only reason for me.

Josh

The one good thing with this forum, is you have TapaTalk to help you out with this. You can take a photo on your Phone/iPad and using the + symbol, upload a photo straight into the thread you want, and I believe It Auto Resize's for you. Happy this forum uses Tapa because there are so many I venture into that don't.
This is another avenue for you and many others, if they didn't realise TapaTalk is around :)

[pictureman]

I am new to this forum as well and I can say that what is happening here is nothing new. I will say this that when something is written you can never hear the tone in which it was meant, so some may take it the wrong way. Just my 2c worth, as you were.:)

p.s I will post up some pics of my latest job when finished.:o

[smiife]

Hi guys,
Oh wow, I didn, t want to stir up a hornets nest or drag up
previous hostilities, i personally have been on this forum
for 6 yrs and in all that time have never received any unpleasent
PM, s. I received lots of information and help which i think has
helped me become a better woodturner, also I have made some
friends who have given not only there time but also freely given
wood blanks and lent tools and asked for nothing in return!
I think the point of posting photos for others to see helps all
of us to get ideas and improve our skills as we go along the
woodturning journey !
It would be great if everone could move on from past problems
but life ain, t that simple is it,
I think there is a problem with the rules around the AWTEX
posting photos on this and other forums and FB. I also
think that has had a negative effect on this forum, but I
understand the need for the rule too! If we want good quality
work on the forum how can we view it?
Thanks to everone who has responded to this thread
I appreciate your thoughts and respect them too!

[powderpost]

I don't think that AWTEX is a big problem. It does affect me personally, but I am only one. How many forumites only make stuff for AWTEX?

I don't often comment because I often come on line late in the conversation and can not see the point of adding to what I has already been said unless I disagree. Over the years we have all seen clubs, groups, internet "groups", "clubs" and forums come and go, as the novelty wears off. I do agree that a small group of "senior" members can tend to form a cliche at the expense of inadvertently putting off newer members. I am not sure that that has happened here. Many get what they came for and leave.

In times past, a simple post "Now kiddies, play nicely", usually calmed things down. There has been comments and I often wonder if I have contributed to that. Type written words do not show any emotion, and can be miss interpreted.

I wonder if a "file cabinet", or an index, or some thing similar where new members can go to, to find threads about which lathe, tools, chucks etc. to buy?

Any body in for a heated debate on sex, politics or religion?? Just kidding.... really.

Jim

[Mobyturns]

Any body in for a heated debate on sex, politics or religion?? Just kidding.... really.

Jim

How about tool steels, gouges grinds or skews? :D That should be enough. :rolleyes:

One comment I will make is that generally I have found the members I have purchased items from through the market place to be very honest & helpful to the point of going above & beyond and that 98% of exchanges I have had with members through the forums have been very positive. I find the WWF to be a pretty well controlled forum and a credit to Neil and his moderators. Moderating is a tough gig that will never please everybody all of the time.

[Big A]

An interesting read all of that. I too have wondered what has happened to this part of the forum (as I compare it to the Metalworker part) and have noted the downturn in postings and display of work.

Recently a member put up some work and suffered for it, and that alone would put people off, but to me the "problem" goes back a bit and is not just one thing. The kerfuffle about the judging of AWTEX last year was somewhat less than edifying, the departure of an "old" member because he seemed to have had a gutful, at least one contributor now puts his efforts into his own website, and some seemed to have moved on to other things.

When one asks for C & C, you would reasonably expect constructive posts, but some of can be destructive. And I am pretty sure that I could critique a piece without causing offence. Except for the time I said that "only it's Mother could love it" - post that binned.

Some of you may recall that about this time last year I had the temerity to post a work in progress about a Murray River Redgum "brakedrum". That attracted some good comments and advice, but also unwarranted criticism from a prince of bombast. I stayed on though.

I have simple tastes and turn simple things that would not attract much attention here, so I do not post about them.

I do not have a problem with Mobyturns safety and I would not want to be a moderator.

Cheers,
Alister.

[Tim Creeper]

Very interesting reading. As one who has only posted a few items I've made. (truth is, I don't make much and delve in different areas when I do). I have noticed less activity in all the areas I hang around. I don't know why but after this little read I think things on the forum are going swimmingly. Sounds like perfectly normal human activity. Some need to say more, some need to say less, some need to toughen up and some need to toughen down. Ain't bein' human grand! Me; well I change mood a lot and at the moment I just trolling mostly and liking cos it's where it is at the moment. Not making nuffin either.
Tim

[ubeaut]

Sixteen years ago these forums were new and something pretty rare.

Because of this and the fact that I knew a lot of woodworkers and let the word get passed around the forums grew steadily and flourished. But that was sixteen years ago when mobile phones were bricks. Computers took two cups of tea to load up and high speed internet ran at snails pace. To include a photo in a post you had to scan it, (if you were rich enough to have a scanner) into your computer with a *TWAIN* connection to get it into the computer then fiddle with it in a graphics program, then upload it to the forums, a couple of hour work, only to find the connection had dropped out or the minute 30kb file was to big, another two hours, half a pack of cigarettes and a few cups of tea later you either got it on line or gave up in disgust. Back then there were no digital cameras. Phones made phone calls and nothing else and forums were something new wonderful and exciting.

*TWAIN* Thing (or Technology) With An Interesting Name was an interface to connect a graphics device to a computer. There was no such thing as USB.

The forums were a way for people to share information, experiences and help with like minded people from all around the world and Woodwork Forums was a breath of fresh air in that we were a lot less stuffy and strict than the other couple of forums that were around in those days. Unfortunately being a little less strict eventually led to some ratbags hijacking threads with drivel (which they thought was fun/funny) and giving others a hard time. Partly because of the perceived anonymity of forums where you don't have to use their own name. We worked long and hard to shut this sort of garbage down and make this a better place to be. We lost a lot of members, many of them really good ones, because of this and I for one am happy to see the end that sort of behaviour. Some say the fun has gone from the forums but it hasn't. Just the drivel, garbage and constant harassment has gone or at least mostly gone compared to what it was.

Today every kid and most adults have at least one mobile device with a hundred times more power and speed and functions than even the best computers had 16 years ago They can take photos and movies better than the best cameras of 16 years ago and they can share that info with their friends and the world on Facebook, Twitter, and a myriad of other social media sited.

Forums to many are old hat but reliable. I doubt we will ever see a time on these forums like we had up until a few years ago when the world went mad with iThings and other mobile devices.

There seems to be a consensus among a <strike>multitude of members</strike> one or two members that the forums are going to wrack and ruin.

Here's a few stats I did at 01:08am 26th August:

Most users on line at the same time 4,180, 1st Jun 2015
It's now after 1:00am and there are currently 1348 users online only 172 members, around 1060 visitors and 116 bots updating search engines.

New Threads:
6069 from 1 January 2015 to 31 July 2015 average 29 per day

New Posts:
54,309 from 1 January 2015 to 31 July 2015

Last 30 days
822 new threads average 27 per day up on previous 30 days
8,114 new posts average 270 per day up on previous 30 days

New members:
69,581 January 2015 to 31 July 2015 - average of 1379 per month

So that means <strike>the droves</strike> one or two people leaving (even at 1 or 2 per day) are being replaced by 44 - 45 new members per day and each of these new members has the potential to become as long standing and prolific as others who have come and gone before them. It's not the war of attrition some make it out to be, it's all in their minds. Some feel that if they leave the whole thing will crumble and fall over. They and their knowledge and friendship, etc, may very well be missed but they will not bring about the downfall of the forums.

At 11:19pm tonight there were 1765 users online. 235 members and 1530 guests. Of the guests a rough count of 65 were Google bots and a further 11 were bots from other search engines. the other 1454 were people interested in the forums for what they are. A valuable resource.

We are sitting on around the same figures across the entire forum now as we have been for the last 3+ years if anything we are slightly up on some of the stats.

Wha's happened to the forums can be likened to the Timber & Working With Wood Show and a lot of shops.
When the T&WWWShows started 26 years ago there was no late night trading, hardly any weekend trading, no internet and for most people no time to get out during working hours to look at tools and equipment etc. So the shows over 3 days (4 days initially) were something wondrous and the crowds flocked to them. Imagine open late Friday and Saturday night and all day Sunday and specifically for woodworking people.... Unheard of.

Now the shops are open 7 days a week and you can flex time off to look for what you want if you want if you want to do it the hard way, or you can do it instantly on your iThing or from the comfort of your home on the old fashioned desktop computer. And people say the organisers have ruined the show. Nup, it's technology, pure and simple.

OK I reckon that's enough reminiscing and rambling on for one night.

Cheers - Neil :U

[Paul39]

Thanks Neil,

That gives some perspective.

I look at some of the USA turning forums from time to time, but somehow I am most comfortable in this one.

Thanks for running it.

[Oldgreybeard]

At 11:19pm tonight there were 1765 users online. 235 members and 1530 guests. Of the guests a rough count of 65 were Google bots and a further 11 were bots from other search engines. the other 1454 were people interested in the forums for what they are. A valuable resource.

We are sitting on around the same figures across the entire forum now as we have been for the last 3+ years if anything we are slightly up on some of the stats.

Cheers - Neil ]

You were too quick with the stats. I reckon you could have won a few bucks in bets from a lot of members (me included).:U I am happy to have been proven wrong.:-:-
Bob

[DaveTTC]

I consider myself a turner lacking experience and time.

I dont know if i have put any serious turnings on the site but in time i hope to get there.

There is so much on my plate i font get 1% of the time i would like working in the cave

Interesting read. Took my entire lunch break.

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art