Another HYCO SCROLL SAW thread

[Lyle]

I found this at a recycling place out in Nelson Bay.
It was destined for scrap metal. I saw it there a few weeks ago but couldn't get close to see what condition it was in.
Dithered for a week then rang them and asked for it to be held for me. Luckily I did that as the bloke said it was going to scrap metal the next day.
Anyway. This is it on the floor.
Date? no data plate, so I am guessing mid 1950s. Has an electric motor, single phase 1/3 horse power. Made by HOOVER electricl in the UK! The motor plug was cut off as per normal. (But when I got it home I sneakily put one on and fired it up. I had checked for shorts and insulation and earth, first and that bearings were free) It ran just like a bought one.
The gearbox was filthy with years od wooddust mixed in with the oil. Took ages to clean out.
There is hardly any rust and that is on the table and is just surface, no pitting.
Paint has multiple layers of green, blue/grey and some blue hammertone?. But I think I will focus on running, not cosmetics and leave the paint as is.
I have four issues to contend with.
1. The electric motor pulley has a broken outer shoulder, I think as a result of the pulleys not being aligned (motor to gearbox) four good bolts will fix that.
2. The gearbox pulley has a stripped thread where the domed headed nut sits. But I think I can overcome that easily.
3. I am missing the hold-down footplate and blade guide. But I am hopefull someone will have photos dimensions and how to make suggestions.
4. The spring tension acme threaded winder is bent slightly, it is stoppinf the adjuster stop drom screwing down. I am hopefully going to straighten it without breaking it. Can you still get acme threaded rods to make a new one???

I will post up some of the photos I took during the pull down and clean.

Comments and suggestions as always appreaciated.

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[jcge]

Hi Lyle

Congratulations on picking up your new saw. I'm sure I can help with a few of your queries. I'll take a look at my saw tonight

Regards,
John

[DSEL74]

I have got the exact same saw and of the same model/year. The early Hyco's had the cast belt covers and after they sold to Woodfast or sometime in between they went to a sheet metal cover.

The threaded rod on mine was bet also and I gently straightened it. Mine is a regular thread not an acme thread though???? The blue green hammertone is the original paint. I'm missing that whole foot and air tube assembly as well as the top blade clamp. I have just been pottering around on it in the shed and come in to see this.

Here is a complete one.



http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=355930&d=1439250210
1955 Catalog
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc455/stewiesno1/Hyco%2024quot%20Scroll%20saw_zpsj3kozxog.png

New Improved blade holders
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=358529&d=1441267179&thumb=1


See http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=197436

Head Assembly from this thread

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...31#post1713731 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=154932&p=1713731#post1713731)
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=292235&d=1383621274



Any details and measurements for the foot assembly would be appreciated so i can make something up for mine.

[DSEL74]

Forgot to mention mine has a ½ Hp 1440 3Ph motor. I'm going to try and fit a suitably old 1ph equivalent.

Also you will note that there cut out on the table can't be used without removing the belt guard and bracket.

[camoz]

Lyle,

Looks to be in good shape, sorry I couldn't make it Saturday. How bent is the spring tensioning threaded rod? Perhaps if you could put up some photos of the bent threaded rod?

This is a link to a post I did a while back fairly sure you said you had read it when we talked, but just in case here is a link

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=154932&p=1713731#post1713731

I have outlined the parts that I saw when I pulled my head apart, I posted the picture recently on another thread, but this is it again (the numbers are outlined in the post).


http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/head%20assembly_zps786q7r1h.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/head%20assembly_zps786q7r1h.jpg.html)

There is also some copies of leaflets that many were kind enough to post, Scott (Woodlens), was kind enough to send me this copy, worth a read.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=250292&d=1358566557

(http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=250292&d=1358566557)
Something interesting was the description of the relief in the table on the pulley side, a good idea, I could imagine the pulley cover might get in the way on some of the other versions of these machines (when changing the blade).

I can measure my foot if it helps, but I think mine may actually have been remade, so hopefully John can help with this, I will be interested to see what his looks like. Glad to hear you cleaned out the oil (well oil sawdust mixture:D), have you managed to get some SAE 50 oil, if your struggling to find some let me know.

Cheers,

Camo

[jcge]

Here's some dimensions for the foot assembly to get you started.

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1) Roller and Washer = 5/8"diameter x 0.46" long (total). The roller has 3 grooves to fit different blade widths (too narrow for me to measure), and sits beside a washer of the same diameter.Ideally the roller and washer would be hardened steel.

2) Screw pin (steel). Not sure of the exact thread size, but about 3/16" diameter, with slotted head.

3) Roller bracket (steel). 1" wide x 1/2" thick, cut at an angle such that the length at the top surface is 0.92" and 0.81" at the bottom. The roller is located such that the diameter of the roller just meets the corners when viewed from the side. The roller sits in a slot 1/2"wide.

4) T bracket is made from 3/16" thick steel bent from flat. The top of the T is 1-1/2" long. All sections are 3/4" wide, and overall length of the piece (estimated when flat prior to bending) is 3". The slots are cut to fit 1/4" bolts.

5) Spring foot is made from 0.7mm spring steel, and is clamped between the roller bracket and T bracket with a 1/4" bolt. Its fork is 1-1/4" wide and the opening between the leaves 1/2" wide and 0.825"deep. It is 1-1/2" long from the bottom of the roller mounting block to its tips, and chamfered down to 0.825" in width where it is clamped between the roller bracket and T bracket.

This should get you started

Regards,
John

[Lyle]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen.
A few photos of the process so far.

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after pulling this apart I still don't know how this works, if at all, or if anything is missing. I can see a different construct to the photos posted previously, but those photos were of a wolfden? weren't they, so maybe a different construction. mine also has a bit of wear on the "cap tube".

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The old electric motor is a 'HOOVER" made in the UK, and still goes OK. It has had a clean up and test. I am getting the old bearings replaced with sealed bearings and the grease nipples will be redundant. But it will still look original. The drive pulley is damaged, I suspect from the pulley misalignment in the photo.

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To say the gearbox needed a clean out is an understatement. (gearbox cover inserted twice- oops). My blade holders had crush washers fitted between them and the holder posts is that normal or required? There were a heap of broken blade tips inside the bottom holder post along with a heap of sawdust. I am thinking of a bit of foam rubber inside to stop them falling into it.

I think the easy bits have been done, now the harder parts to replace missing bits will be happening.
Thanks for the posts.
I'll revisit the previous posts and ask questions or reply to them.
Lyle.

[camoz]

Lyle,

I am taking a quick break from something, so I will have to make this brief. I just wanted to give you a rundown on how it works, so you can assess the parts. My machine is a Hafco, not Wolfenden (that's another great Australian company), but here are your images with some numbers on them, so I can go through the process for you


http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/Lyles2_zps6dzrse9e.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/Lyles2_zps6dzrse9e.jpg.html)

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/Lyles_zpsuscyhr7e.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/Lyles_zpsuscyhr7e.jpg.html)

So when assembled, you would put your blade in between the bolts (1), and tighten one of the bolts (2), not sure if yours is the same as mine, but my one has a hole in the centre of the bolt to accept pinned blades as well as unpinned blades, and the tip of the bolt has a piece which can rotate freely, so as not to twist the blade at the final stage of tightening.

The other end of the blade obviously goes between the other bolts below the table. You then turn the pulley so the bottom section is at top dead centre, and apply pressure to the blade by turning the tension adjustment handle. If you do not bring the bottom shaft up to top dead centre, when you start the machine, there is a chance there will be insufficient tension at the top of the stroke and the blade will flex and whip, this will likely break the blade.

When you adjust the tension the inner shaft (4) wants to pull down as it is held by the blade, the spring (3) applies pressure against the shaft (4) and the brass lip at the top of the inner shaft (4) prevents it from rotating in the housing (5), as you wind the tension handle further, the spring is compressed and the brass lip moves down the housing, displaying the tension that is on the blade. The recommended tension was in the manual Steve supplied me, and I posted in my last thread (this is obviously just a guide as the spring will change over time).

If you have done everything correct, you will start the machine, the bottom shaft will move up and down, pulling the blade, the blade will move with this motion, and the spring (3) will apply enough pressure to keep the blade straight through the stroke without snapping the blade.

If you look at the bottom of (6) you will see a small lip, this seats inside (4), I believe their would have originally been an O ring or piece of leather, to form a partial seal. As (4) is drawn up and down with the stroke, this pushes a small amount of air through the tube in (6), which comes out on of the side outlet. This outlet had a tube leading down to the pressure foot assemble. The air is only meant to blow the sawdust enough to enable you to see the cut.

I have yet to fix my air blower, and to be honest, I may never do it.

Hope that's helpful, got to get back to what I was doing (I rushed through the explanation, so if something doesn't make sense ask, as I may have used the wrong number in my explanation).

Cheers,

Camo

[woodlogic]

Lyle,

You might be in luck. I ended up with two seperate hyco scroll saws.

Long story short, I bought the first one with plans to restore it, until it was moved which broke the body in half. What I noticed was that the saw rested on an original stand, however, the stand wasn't completely flat and had a concave in the middle, and when the saw was bolted down hard at both opposing ends + the vibration from moving the machine, caused a break straight accross the middle section of the casting. I assume years of pressure and tension built up. Basically, be careful of how it is bolted down and ensure a completely flat surface.

So that ordeal left me with a few parts I've been donating to others restoring a Hyco. Attached are a few photos of the parts I have left. Let me know if you would like any.

Also, as part of the original restoration, I bought a single phase motor. The second Hyco came with an original motor so it wasn't needed. If anyone is interested, let me know.

In the background of the last few pictures is my second Hyco. A real little Australian gem.

Regards,
Raymond.J.B

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[DSEL74]

Kif Lyle isn't interested, I am in the bits in the last two photos.

[Lyle]

Yes thank you very much. I'd like the hold down assembly and the blade tensioner/air blower assembly .
I will pm you with my number or get yours to call you.
I have a son in Bris who could.collect and bring down to here for me.
Thanks for the offer it is appreciated.
Sad to hear of your machine breaking. Too many old machines dissappearing.
Lyle.

[Lyle]

Thanks Raymond, a pm has been sent.
Lyle.

[Lyle]

Thanks for your reply Cameron.
I got confused by your photo. My blade holder has bolts, not a T bolt as yours shows. My blade holder bolts do not have the hole for pinned blades but do have the round bit to rotate when gripping the blade. I was looking at your photos and didn't realise that the blade holder was still attached to the shaft.
So I am more confident now that my setup is complete at least.

Thanks too for the description of the air blower operation. Makes sense now. I see a hole inside the body in the bushes in there. Two bushes? Have you had them out? I am wondering if there may have been a seal between them for the air blower operation? I cannot see in there clearly nor take a photo.

Lyle.

[DSEL74]

Since Llyle doesn't need seem to need the top blade holder, I'd still like to put my hand up for that.

[DSEL74]

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John, That should be helpful in making one. Yours is different to the one Camoz posted does it mount directly to the rod or is there a foot on the rod also?

[DSEL74]

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/Lyles2_zps6dzrse9e.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/Lyles2_zps6dzrse9e.jpg.html)



So when assembled, you would put your blade in between the bolts (1), and tighten one of the bolts (2), not sure if yours is the same as mine, but my one has a hole in the centre of the bolt to accept pinned blades as well as unpinned blades, and the tip of the bolt has a piece which can rotate freely, so as not to twist the blade at the final stage of tightening.


Cheers,

Camo

Do both screws have rotating tips or just one?? Are the holders the same top and bottom????


Mine only has one rotating on the bottom and I don't have a top clamp. Is there a seal like this on yours??? I don't have the brass washers as others have shown.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/08/70185626de940e2685a771efddb485a0.jpg

The thread has been straightened, cold, and all rust removed. Lyle you should be able to get a similar result.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/08/46255afd672c2e54f6e9822f69a5ae90.jpg



I noticed you guys have riveted on scales, mine is also missing the table angle scale.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/08/d2edad3205f27918afe40730752c538c.jpg
.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/08/69a2c897a58e59286abca81ee5929de3.jpg

[Lyle]

Yes the blade holders top and bottom look the same. Although I haven't tried to swap them.
Both blade holders have one bolt with a rotating tip and one bolt with a crudelt cut slot.

My machine didn't have a seal on either bladr holder rod. Although I wish the bottom one did. The gearbox may have been a lot cleaner inside. Also if the rod also had something inside it may have prevented all the broken bits and sawdust accumulating over the years.

The spring tension adjusting rod - I'll try and straighten it, it is not bent too much, just enough to stop the locking-stop from going down. Fingers crossed. I don't know if I can get it the same finish as yours.

The table tilt gauge on mine is painted over so I'll need to carefully scrape it off or leave it.

I have to thank all of you for your assistance with this.
Very much appreciated.
Lyle.

[DSEL74]

The bottom holder on mine, is the T piece with swivel tip and a regular bolt, no slot or hole as has been mentioned.

The thread had been vent in moving with the forklift on mine. I clamped up to the bend between two bits of wood in the vice then just pulled orbit a little at a time then checking how far off straight and repeat. Nothing fancy in the cleaning either. It was fully covered in rust and I just spent a bit of time with a wire wheel.

You should be able to get just as good results if not better.

[Lyle]

You are a hard taskmaster.:wink:
I scrapped off the layers of paint on the angle guage/indicator. When I took the table angle mount off theen I could see a small threaded hole in the support for the indicator pointer. Photos to come.
I have straightened the tension adjuster to the point it is working. A little stiff but it works. My adjuster is an acme square thread but I think the locking ring thingy is a normal v thread. Would that be right?

When taking the table angle support off to scrape clean the indicator I noticed the front mounting hole had a hollow bolt in it. Curious???? Also the support has a threaded hole, this maybe where a pointer for the indicator was fitted??

Paint colour?? Seems to be a few layers around. I am not too sure if the hammertone blue is original or the green under it. Would the green be an undercoat or original colour?

Is there a correct position for the tensioner cap where the air line comes out? As you face the saw from the front, on the right or the left? Mine goes on either way without any apparent problem.

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As always thanks for your inputs.

[jcge]

John, That should be helpful in making one. Yours is different to the one Camoz posted does it mount directly to the rod or is there a foot on the rod also?

Dale - it mounts the same way as Camoz' ....there's a plate on the bottom of the rod which it bolts to.

Regards
John

[DSEL74]

Base on the catalogue photo earlier the air outlet is on the RHS same as you have it.

[DSEL74]

How long do I make the bar foe the foot?
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/09/9a9f96e2efad5b4bff5662e322b7773a.jpg

[DSEL74]

Before
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/10/e15ee41193d84c9de36d037f0853f188.jpg
After
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/10/e491d49fc696b2aae9ab1709ee139c78.jpg

[DSEL74]

OMG!
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/10/2b7d4727696ea2490a16c309a1d17b79.jpg

a gentle brushing and a blow with compressed air does marvels.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/10/ebc9a1a6c79efaed4104697bf693dbc3.jpg
The original motor is 3ph so I'm considering fitting a vfd and getting electronic speed control.
Or I have a twin 240v motor I can fit if I can get the old pulley off. seems the previous owner had issues. Thoughts?
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/10/849e34ba9c749a0a4e06fcb6c6ca9b92.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/10/4a2697ade7407dceb634034590f05c18.jpg


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/10/0c95d3f6f1b168b86cfb52b6dab338d2.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/10/6b74b758b8f84072897ab4b37aa4f4a3.jpg




Got the 240V Motor fitted for now anyway. Machine runs well, just need those last few parts.. I will at some point make a timber shelf and top for the stand.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/10/1278c841304383b22ca157dbfa224056.jpg

[Lyle]

I will post some photos on Monday for the hold down I have, such as it is.
I also made a quick drawing with dimensions.
I am hoping with those photos and any others I/we can make replacements and get our machines up to speed.

I am offline until Monday sorry.

I like your work, far better result than I have. I'll have to make some extra effort :D

Lyle.

[Lyle]

Hold-down photos.
I am missing some parts I think.
So if anyone has a complete one they want to take photos and show dimensions???

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[DSEL74]

I think your just missing the bits posted by JCGE (post number #6) and the spring foot.

Did you get the parts your were offered??

[Lyle]

I hope so for the parts, he was going to drop them off to my son later in the month.
I hope he gave you what you were after (blade holder?)

I think you are right re my missing spring foot and roller guide.

Lyle.

[woodlogic]

Lyle,

If no one has posted those photos and dimensions you're seeking up by next week I can as soon as I get back to Brissy - just travelling for work at the moment. Also, just letting you know I dropped those parts off to your son on Sat.

And speaking of parts, Dale I sent you a PM for those parts you were after. Left over was the top blade holder and the angle plate for for the table. Give me a call if you still want them.

Regards,
Raymond.

[Lyle]

Thanks Raymond. My son 'forgot' to tell me a nice bloke dropped off some 'stuff' for me on Sat. :(
Kids, I tell you they'll be the death of me. :D

Thanks very much, I'll put them to good use.
Lyle.

[DSEL74]

Based Lyle's info above, I was able to make another piece of the puzzle.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/20/09adb630900f6c64ab82d463e17683ad.jpg

[Lyle]

Excellent work. Nice drawing too. I am really happy to have been some help.
How about the hold down bar/rod? Did you just go with the round or did you mill a flat along its length?

I stole a motor of an old spindle moulder I have at home and fitted it to the scroll saw to see that it all works. It goes great. I pulled out the pins from an old scroll saw blade I had and fitted to my machine. It cuts and runs smooth.
I couldn't get my table up to your standard, but it is clean and smooth without any rust pitting. I'll make a insert for the table this weekend if time permits. Nothing fancy just a flat aluminium or wood.

My drive belt (branded Dunlop Maxpower A31) is old, stiff and has a permanent wobble. Mind the comments that that is just like me!!! :p
Mainly I think from sitting so long on the pulleys without ever moving.

So I am thinking of replacing it with a round section neoprene/rubber drive belt like they use in sewing machines.
Any comments for or against???
Lyle.

[DSEL74]

I'm considering putting a flat in the rod but haven't got that far. I made it out of stainless and can't get the cheap asian made die to cut the thread :?
I also domed the top of the rod for looks & safety.

http://metalworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=358545&d=1442808732http://metalworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=358546&d=1442808736



Why do you want to go to a round belt? I would think it be easier to just get a a new Vee belt and that the Vee Belt would have more traction and not be likely to slip.

[DSEL74]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/20/3c7448062869b0c59498038952cf95d1.jpg

[Lyle]

That looks great.
Your blade tensioner rod has a normal V thread, mine has an acme (square thread). Although when I looked at the brass locknut its' thread seems to be a butchered V thread? But the thread on the rod and mounting definitely is the acme thread.
I wonder which is correct/or year? Would they have changed that during the manufacturing years/model.

[DSEL74]

An acme or other variations on a square thread are preferable from a mechanical stand point in these kinds of applications. If you look at machinery you will see most have them, i.e. all the feed screws on lathes etc. This is basically just a vertical slide.

As for which is original or if the change over the years is anyones guess. Mine all looks original to my machine. Maybe others can chime in on what their machine has.

[DSEL74]

Not sure if the bend in the bracket is tight enough? Marked out, drilled & cut before being chucked in the forge and bent hot with tongs. Cleaned up on the linisher. I wish I had a milling machine.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/21/810439ca8eda83ab46832fcca8fc42bb.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/21/6e292f8a300e96472bc737948ccc9dcf.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/21/0114a995dc9e31a49f730d7916689ac8.jpg

[Lyle]

Nice work.
Forge? I would have had to use my old vice and just bash it with a hammer. :2tsup:
I investigated getting a round section belt to replace the old V belt, but it was too expensive. So I am waiting for an ebay special!
Nearly back to fully operational.
Except for the air blower.
I saw in one of the phots there appears to be a leather something around the center tube. Anyone got knowledge on that part, so I can get the blower going again???
Thanks.