Sharpening wooden moulding plane blades

[JDarvall]

From the thread 'How darksiders do profiles' I been asked to describe how to sharpen moulding planes. So this is what this threads all about.

Its not easy. Even with the process I'm about to describe it still takes some practise. Took me quite a while to work it out. Went through many options, even played with the idea of making up a machine to do it for me.

I feel that its just too hit and miss attempting to sharpen the things by simply clamping the blade in a vise and taking to it with files, slipstones etc. Not only do you have maintain a consistant angle with the tool, to get that razor edge, but also you have to at the same time conform strictly to maintaining the profile. Its just too much I think to be able to do all that consistantly and quickly. I really don't know how they managed to do it back in yesteryear.

And maintaining the profile is very important. If a moulding plane is not cutting its most probably because the profile in the blade differs to that of the sole. Ideally must have the blade protruding the same amount over every part of the profile. Because if even the smallest portion of the blade resides below the sole, even though most of the blade may be above, it will fail to cut at that point; the plane won't drop any further into your stock.
So, the blades profile HAS to match the soles profile.
In many of the old planes I come accross they don't match. And their blades are often scratched up, indicating an attempt at sharpening which must have distorted the blades profile(easy to do) and the thing wouldn't work at which point it probably sat on various shelves for the next 50 years. If you get my drift.

Ok, so my sharpening method revolves around a grinding wheel(6" Aluminium Oxide)and a buffing wheel(hard felt, shaped for carving, carpatec) with a fixed tool rest off them both. The fixed tool rest ensures your maintaining a consistant angle. The buffing wheel is loaded with green compound(carpatec) that will give you a very sharp edge (sharpest around I reakon).
Both wheels must be shaped at some point thin enough to get into the curves of your blade. The buffing wheel already comes like that. But with the grinding wheel, you have to shape yourself. Just use a diamond stick and dress it ruffly to get that shape, just make sure you drag the stick when dressing (picture 1)
The tool rest is set for about 25 degrees. And the rest for the buffing wheel is set for a touch higher. The idea is you grind at 25 degrees to a feather edge (ie. just before it burrs) then you buff just the last 1mm or so of the tip to get that razor sharp edge. Both grinding and buffing wheels must be as vibration free as you can set them up (go into this more with you if interested latter).

I'll take you through it picture by picture. Think this is the best way to convey my idea.
It just so happened that clumsy me dropped the bloody blade right on its edge, so you'll be able to see a complete transformation take place. (picture 2)

Picture 3 - first I back off on a medium stone quickly to clear the debri, ie. so I can see what I've got to work with better.
Picture 4 - shows what it looks like after this backing off

Picture 5 - Got to make a template out of paper. What I need repeatably throughout the sharpening process is a means of checking the profile. All I did was put a slip of paper tight between the back of the mouth and the blade and traced it with a good ink pen.

Continued next post...

[JDarvall]

Picture 1 - After cutting out the template very carefully with sissors I lay it down over the back of the blade and traced it to the blade with a sharp pensil (ink pens just smear).

Picture 2 - Now its time to bring back the profile. What I do is take it straight in into the curved grinding wheel in the same way of cleaning up a regular chisel thats knicked.
Have plenty of light. Get your eye in close. Use both hands and light touch and slowly nibble away right onto the line.
Picture 3 - Shows the result.

Pictures 4 and 5- Ok now that you've got the profile back you have to grind the bevel to a feather edge. What you have to watch is how that 'flat' shinny line made during reshaping, (seen looking down front of blade) slowing disappears. Picture 4 shows that 'flat'. What you might find is that this flat is thicker in some places more than others. What you have to do when grinding the bevel is concentrate on grinding down those areas first so the flat has a similar width over its entire length.
Once thats done, you grind equally over the entire length until this glint disappears entirely. When its gone your done.
Picture 5 doesn't show this entirely (because I'm holding camera in other hand). But you must have your fingers as close to the blades edge as possible to detect heat. As soon as it gets too hot, simply pull back and let it cool before going in again. People critize dry grinders because of the heat build up problems killing blades temper, but there really is never any problem if you simply pull back when it gets too hot, and use a light touch.

So, its like, grind for a few seconds, then check glint, grind again, check again,,,,gets too hot ? pull back. Glint nearly gone ? If so lighten up your touch even further <- thats all you have to think about. Just make sure you don't go so far with grinding that you start to burr the edge too much or else you'll distort the profile. Easy to do. And when it happens your stuffed. You'll have to start again by re-establishing the profile.

Continued next post.

[JDarvall]

Picture 1 shows what you got at the completion of grinding . ie. no glint.

Picture 2, 3 and 4 - Now its time to buff off that tip. First obvious thing to say "GO IN REVERSE". Probably obvious to most but the wheel must be travelling away from you or else your blade will crash dive into the wheel and probably try and kill you some how.
But really, buffings a piece of cake. Just load up the wheel with a little compound (don't need much) and just stroke it back and forth. Place your template on top while your doing it. This way you can watch contantly for any changes in profile (actually can do this while grinding as well). Because your buffing the tip it will sharpen very quickly. Just stop and check for sharpness occationally; however you do it. I usually just shave a few hairs or feel the way it catches my finger prints. Picture 4 shows me ..Showing off !! :p .
Only need a light touch. But make sure you keep blade moving accross it. An early indication your nearly there is when the smallest of burrs kicks off. From there I usually alternate between backing off on polishing stone and buffing bevel until I'm satisfied.

Picture 5 - shows an alternative method to backing off. Though I probably should not recommended its a very quick way of ensuring a polish right on the tip, coupled with a little backbevel for teary timber. Its just lightly touching the last few millimetres of the back on a hard flat felt wheel. Its very tempting because the polish from that green compound is IMO second to none. Beats the crap out of many polishing waterstones I reakon.

Continued next post

[JDarvall]

Pictures 1 and 2 - Now that you've got a sharp blade thats retained the right profile its time to put it back in. Stating the obvious I guess, but before you do after using waterstone lightly wipe the blade with waxed up cloth. Cause even though you may not see any rust your blade edge will start rusting almost immediately (so I've read anyway). Picture 2 shows that the blade matches up perfectly when looking down the nose of your plane.

Tips for using the plane.
- frequently swip the sole with wax to grease things up a bit. It will make it so, so, much easier to use.
- Set the blade for coarse shaving. Why ? Unless you've got really teary timber you'll rip through your moulding real fast with it set coarse.
- Throw that Noisey, dirty, rude, dangerous, expensive, plastic Router away :p
- Now that you can hear yourself think, play some nice music while you work, like Jazz or classical; whatever. You'll get a nice rythem going. Now THATS woodwork !


p.s. I Recommend songs by 'Madeleine Peyroux'. She's got a lovely voice.

[NewLou]

Once Again Excellent Post apricotripper:)

Thx for Sharing your Technique with us..........................Great Read!!!!!

REgards Lou:D:D:D

[JDarvall]

Ta Lou. Time to be a nutter again I reakon. All this seriousness is giving me a headache. But before I do got a few more pictures. Might as well put them on before I forget about them, and before my daughter wakes up.

Just wanted to show something I thought was interesting. The moulding plane below is very beat up. The blades nearly gone. In fact it bearly sticks out the top of the plane body. The fence had broken off at one stage, and some blokes just screwed it back on with 3 small screws. It really is in a bad way. Yet I managed to get it to work by just sharpening the blade edge up a bit by just backing it off heaps. (just an experiment, I will fix its profile though)

Even though the blades profile is distorted, because its has a very small cutter you can set it for a very coarse cut and it still works. See picture 3.
(Quite nice profile too I think. I really like the small detailed profiles)

So, clearly, despite what I've mentioned on the importance of blade and sole profiles matching, its really dependent on how much your shaving as well. ie. if its a small blade, that means less friction, so you can set the blade for a coarser cut and still have enough control on the plane. I mean,,,,, it probably wouldn't work in a wider plane with similar blade distortions. It be just too hard to control

So, as long as no part of the blade edge resides below the sole you can sometimes get by.

[AlexS]

Thanks for that post, Tripper. Found it most interesting even though I don't have a single moulding plane.

[LineLefty]

Apricot,

Thats really interesting, thanks for that. It still seems though, that you're still grinding the profile freehand. Is it really that easy to get it spot on with the sole just by eye?

I had the idea of making a plastercast or resin mould from the sole to give you the exact shape. You could then sprink grit on it and sharpen that way............maybe?

OR if you had an existing moulding you couldlay sandpaper over it........

But if your hand grinding/buffing method produceda sharp enough results without having to move through a procession of grits then maybe its the go. Are you not ruining a perfectly good grinding wheel though?

[ryanarcher]

holy smokes appricot, you put some serious effort into this thread! I echo alex's words.

-Ryan

[derekcohen]

Jake

Excellent work indeed!

I might add, to piggyback on your foundation of grinding the shape, that keeping the profile edges sharp is the next stage. So as to avoid rounding over edges by stropping on the wheel, my suggestion here is to first use the molding plane to cut a nice, clear length out of pine or some reasonably straight grained and firm timber, so producing a negative of the blade profile. Then load the planed shape with Veritas green rouge and pull the blade through this (as Jake said, do it backwards, otherwise the blade will want to cut). You can do this with all profiles.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Wood Borer]

Apricotripper,

you have made what seemed to me to be almost impossible into something that can be achieved with a bit of effort but within reach.

Apart from the description, you have given background information of why you have used the methods in your thread.

Thanks so much.

You can be less serious but only for a short time and then you can share some more experiences with us. :D

[Termite]

Apricot man, I must say that I really prefer the serious side of you, you would appear to have a lot to share with us.
Just goes to show how first impressions can sometimes be wrong. :o

[Auld Bassoon]

G'day Apricotripper!



Thanks for that! an excellent sequel to part the first on moulding planes.



I've got to say, though, that even though your sequence of posts were clear, it still looks blerry hard to sharpen the blade up properly and so that it's still of the correct profile. Well done!



Cheers!

[MikeW]

Hi Jake, a great follow-up post. Wonderful advice, well carried out.

Mike

[Andy Mac]

'Ripper,

Thanks for the post and the previous one of Dark Side mouldings, excellent reading and pictures too. I think you've got the makings of book on such skills, ones we're losing.
Like AlexS, I don't own a single moulding plane....just a complicated Record Multiplane that sees the light of day once a year, maybe
Cheers,

[JDarvall]

Thanks everyone..


Apricot,
OR if you had an existing moulding you couldlay sandpaper over it........


There's one inherent problem I think with the idea of sharpening from an already planed profile. I understand where the idea came from, and up to recently I thought the idea would work to. But, really I think the idea has to be abandoned.

Unlike straight edged blades a profiled blade will change as the angle it presents to the wood changes. I'll attach some pictures to show my point.

Yesterday I managed(only just) to get a larger profile going. It has deeper valleys and hills than most, so it should show my point better. See picture 1.

In picture 2 I've removed the plane body from the picture and just braced the blade at 50 degrees, which is the bed angle for the plane. ie. the effective pitch ; the angle the blade cuts at. Right ?

However, we don't sharpen blades at their Effective pitches. We sharpen at about 30 (or whatever) degrees right ? So, I've dropped the angle to about 30 degrees. Braced it at that point, and taken a photo of it which is picture 3. In particular, look at that sharp spur part of the blade on the left. It no longer touches the wood.
If we were to coat a pre-cut profile with some abrasive, like a compound or sandpaper, and took our blade to it, we'd only get an edge if you were willing to accept sharpening it at its bed angle ! 50 degrees in this case. Try and sharpen it any lower and the hills (like that spur) wont get any attention what so ever.
And of course you can't sharpen it at its bed angle. It just won't work, because when you put it back into the plane you'll have no clearence between the bevel and the wood you planing. The blade will just skip all the time. It just wouldn't work.

Now, I reakon the idea of sharpening a blade off a pre-cut moulding may work but only if it was the profile you get when you lower it to 30 degrees. But how could you ever plane out a profile like that? Your plane only cuts at 50 degrees......get my drift?

[LineLefty]

Yeah I think I get what you mean. Theres never an easy way is there?

[sinjin1111]

I know this is not in the feel of the thread. But you can do this sort of thing with 3D CAD packages pretty easily.
The idea being to draw your unground piece of steel at the required angle.
Then project the 2D profile shape onto the blade and remove the area below the projected profile shape.
The other method depending on the type of CAD package you have is to once again draw your plane blade at the correct angle. And then draw a 3D profile you like. and subtract one solid from the other.
Sinjin

[TassieKiwi]

Good thread 'trip. Very understandable. I guess you could grind the profile on the shaped wood (ie in teh plane at 50deg), then grind your 30 bevel to this line with your method? Not sure why you'd bother tho:confused:

[routermaniac]

good work jake, really good stuff

[JDarvall]

good work jake, really good stuff

Ta mate.

I reakon I deserve something in return for all that hard work eh .... maybe you could pass the hat around and buy me a new tool :p

Heard those new LA smoothers are just fab. My birthdays in January you know. :D

Anyway, are you guys really interested ? or are you all humoring me ?
I enjoy talking about this stuff. Find it very interesting. Have more stuff to talk about. But I prefer not to say a thing if all I do is sound like a 'show off' . Cause thats the last thing I want to do. Just want more people to use these tools, before their buried too deep under all this power tool jargon, and nobody knows how to use them anymore. :rolleyes:

[MikeW]

I would like you to continue, Jake.

I've got 'em. I use 'em. They are almost the only types of planes that have that sound when they cut, know what I mean? Still love the sound of the shaving. Like talking about as well.

You've even inspired me a bit to work on the couple I've got that need attention. Thanks. Mike

[JDarvall]

I would like you to continue, Jake.

I've got 'em. I use 'em. They are almost the only types of planes that have that sound when they cut, know what I mean? Still love the sound of the shaving. Like talking about as well.

You've even inspired me a bit to work on the couple I've got that need attention. Thanks. Mike

Thankyou Mike. Yep. I know that sound alright. Especially those first few strokes after sharpening.

I have plenty to learn myself. I'm discovering a lot at the moment. Quite exciting stuff. I've purchased a few boxes of old tools. Many of which at the time I couldn't identify. I'm slowly working my way through them. I got them all at a local Auction.
This old bloke had a huge woodworking collection for sale. We live in a country town, and I feel for the bloke, because all these wonderfully restored old tools went for a pitence. He should have gone to Brisbane, or at least some place larger. He should have got at least 4 time more for it all than he ended up getting.
So I ended up with boxes of old stuff. Still kicking myself about some of the tools I let go. A no.55 went for just $185 AU !!! I mean, the thing was in an excellent condition. If I had have known how possible it was to sharpen its blades, as I do now, I would have paid up to $400. Such is life.

Anyhow, I'll continue taking photo's while I work and post my ideas as I get a chance. But, please. Don't hold back if you see something wrong in what I say. I rather fix it sooner than later.

[MikeW]

Anyhow, I'll continue taking photo's while I work and post my ideas as I get a chance. But, please. Don't hold back if you see something wrong in what I say. I rather fix it sooner than later.
Well, I have what some would call a bad habit of speaking my mind. I seldom mean any harm by it, but some take it that way. I have a feeling you wouldn't though.

So yep, I would speak up. What you are doing is the same thing I have done. Read about it on the net someplace when the net was BB-based. All text. Hard to follow just the written thing. Made a lot of mistakes. So I think the photo documentation along with the text has been excellent should someone want a go at it. Which I would recommend.

In fact, I'm not aware of a book that has really shown someone how to do this, especially with modern grinding equipment. So this has been great.

I still have the first (well, one of my sons do) cabinet I made the moldings for. All curves produced by the hollow and rounds of a couple sizes with a bead at the bottom.

Those hollow and rounds I think are the easiest to reshape I think if someone wants to try this, too. Not as complicated to get the arcs right as even a simple profile. But anybody can get good results following this series of "Molding Planes by Jake." And like you've mentioned, they are usually cheap, even if it is a single plane somewhere.

I mean, how much more fun can it get? Couple hours in the shop at worst playing before those first curlies come peeling off, with that strong sound of wood being sliced off.

Makes me wanna go out and have a go myself.

Mike

[JDarvall]

Well, I have what some would call a bad habit of speaking my mind. I seldom mean any harm by it, but some take it that way. I have a feeling you wouldn't though.
Mike

No, don't worry about offending. Mike. Let it rip. Around where I live talking like that is normal, to the point it feels awkward any other way.



I mean, how much more fun can it get? Couple hours in the shop at worst playing before those first curlies come peeling off, with that strong sound of wood being sliced off.

Makes me wanna go out and have a go myself.

Mike
Geeez , we're easily entertained arn't we ? :p .

No, I agree its a real pleasurable thing to do. The problem is trying to show these methods can also be practical. In my opinion, unless your intent on ripping out miles and miles of profile, its more than practical once you get over the sharpening problems. Especially for the detailed work of fine cabinets and the like.

I've got an idea of showing some no.50's I've got. Many think, like other combination planes, that their useless because of the tearout problems, but I think their fine if you backbevel the blades, to reduce tearout. (Even if you don't backbevel the blades their often ok anyway I think). Also you don't have to conform to strict profile requirements like you do with wooden planes. Makes sharpening much, much easier. I might start up a thread on that, but not for a while. I'm getting into a little strife at home at the moment because I'm spending too much time on the computer. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'll catch up with you latter.

Jake.

[AlexV]

Hello everyone,

I just procured myself a stanley 55(fleamarket find) and was wondering about sharpening the blades aswell. I'll admit I had the same Idea about using existing moulding until I read your post, apricotripper. But I think It could still work.

If you have some of the moulding and added some kind of drying putty (like plaster) on it. then passing your blade at the correct angle over it, creating the correct profile. This should fill in all the spots that would otherwise miss the blade. after it dries just add the sandpaper and pass the blade on it at the exact same angle...

The only problem I can see is the thickness of the sandpaper changing the profile...


How were moulding planes sharpened 'back in the day'??

thanks,
Alex