Which router table and fence???

[Dazm]

So I have decided to buy a router table instead of building one, I have lot's of projects in the wings and I need a router table and actually building one is waaaay down my list.

SO

I have had a look at the Kreg table and fence at Carbatec and it looks very nice, I have also heard of the Woodpecker table but I've not seen it. Are there any others I should be looking at?

Can anyone recommend the best way to go?

I'd love a router lift but at the moment my funds will not stretch that far.

Thanks in advance.

Daz.

[Squidhead]

Hi Daz, You will undoubtedly receive many opinions and sound advice here. Don't forget to have a look at Timbecon down in Canningvale, they have some new tables in as well (over recent weeks) at what I would call reasonable prices, with and without lift kits. You could also make your own if you are so inclined without too much fuss. Recently my wife purchased me a sliding top cast iron table from Timbecon before the newer stock arrived and I couldn't be happier with it myself, its a great little unit that does all I need it to do.

[Dazm]

It seems the cast iron is the preferred table material over the phenolic.

[Dazm]

So I went to Timbecon but there wasn't much in the way of router tables, they had one but the lift wasn't fitted so couldn't try it out.

I found this one at Beyond Tools in Malaga http://www.beyondtools.com/product/router-table/ , very nice but no above the table bit changes which is something I really want.

Ive read good things about the Jessem and Woodpeckers but not sure if it will accept my Makita 3612C router.

[P.W.H.]

In case you're interested, I just made a router lifter using a M10 nut, a M12 nut, a 15cm piece of washing machine hose, 2 M10 washers, 2 dabs of Vaseline and a furled knob of some old Metabo drill accessory. No strain on the budget at all. (Hitachi TR 12 router b.t.w.)

364335364336

[P.W.H.]

Further to the topic of router tables: Here's my new assembly table top in progress (last week)
364337

You will note I've built in two series of 32mm holes for some 32mm steel pipe to be inserted. That pipe (from a dead garage door lifter) is going to carry my (for now) router table top.
the table has the second skin on it now and is sitting in the workshop right side up - as seen in my previous picture, I'm currently building the sub-structure for it.

I am not sure how well I'll be able to actually make that router table attachment line up with the rest of the table. There will be some slop in the pipes, even though there's room for 900mm pipe. If it doesn't work out, I'll build a separate undercarriage for the router table, but I'd rather save the floor space if I can. At the experimental stage right now. So far it's all cover sheets, left over bits and bobs, a couple of 4x2 out of the woodshed and only the casters I laid out money for. If it all works out well, I'll have a router table with 7'x5' real estate :D

[Xanthorrhoeas]

It seems the cast iron is the preferred table material over the phenolic.

If you read further you will find that many of the cast iron router tables are fairly small and that some of them sag, i.e. are not flat enough. They are heavy, limiting and a bit of a dead-end. Cast iron (if high quality and flat, not the cheap Chinese variety) seems to be great for table saws (unless you want a sliding table) but maybe not the best for router tables. Here in Queensland there is an expert woodworker by the name of Richard Vaughan. Look him up on the web. Richard runs expert router workshops (which I have attended) and he has a great design for a router table. Also, if you look up "woodwork router tables" on Google you will find numerous free designs on US sites. They all have laminated plywood or mdf tops with phenolic or Aluminium router inserts.

I have an Aluminium Festool CMS router table with Festool OF2200 router. Very high tech, great router lift inbuilt. Lovely machine, but the table is too small for routing large pieces/shapes. So I am currently building my own 750 mm by 900 mm router table from laminated marine ply (36 mm thick) with a Laminex top. It is an easy, simple build and having used Richard's router tables I know that the larger table size and control/ flexibility it gives are much better than those standard Chinese cast iron units, and better for large items than my expensive Festool unit (beautiful and useful though that is).

i hope that this helps.

[rayintheuk]

What Xanthorrhoeas (http://www.woodworkforums.com/member.php?u=91606) said! Great advice.

Ray

[Dazm]

If you read further you will find that many of the cast iron router tables are fairly small and that some of them sag, i.e. are not flat enough. They are heavy, limiting and a bit of a dead-end. Cast iron (if high quality and flat, not the cheap Chinese variety) seems to be great for table saws (unless you want a sliding table) but maybe not the best for router tables. Here in Queensland there is an expert woodworker by the name of Richard Vaughan. Look him up on the web. Richard runs expert router workshops (which I have attended) and he has a great design for a router table. Also, if you look up "woodwork router tables" on Google you will find numerous free designs on US sites. They all have laminated plywood or mdf tops with phenolic or Aluminium router inserts.

I have an Aluminium Festool CMS router table with Festool OF2200 router. Very high tech, great router lift inbuilt. Lovely machine, but the table is too small for routing large pieces/shapes. So I am currently building my own 750 mm by 900 mm router table from laminated marine ply (36 mm thick) with a Laminex top. It is an easy, simple build and having used Richard's router tables I know that the larger table size and control/ flexibility it gives are much better than those standard Chinese cast iron units, and better for large items than my expensive Festool unit (beautiful and useful though that is).

i hope that this helps.


Hey Xanthorrhoeas

Do you have any plans you could share? I'm still unsure about building my own table, I'm worried about it being accurate and half the time it ends up costing you as much or more than a bought one.

The guy from Gregory Machinery just sent me this http://www.m3its.com.au/lift.pdf and it looks pretty good.


(http://www.m3its.com.au/lift.pdf)

[rayintheuk]

... and half the time it ends up costing you as much or more than a bought one.

Even if it costs the same (or even a little more) as a purchased table, you get exactly what you want - no compromises, no disappointment!

Ray

[Chris Parks]

Even if it costs the same (or even a little more) as a purchased table, you get exactly what you want - no compromises, no disappointment!

Ray

Ray, unfortunately the new user sometimes does not know what he wants, he gets half way through the build and decides he has to start again or the whole thing just gets so frustrating he gives up entirely. Even more experienced user can build and not be happy with the result. Pat Warner's site is a router table builder's mecca for something to aim at and drool as few in woodworking have his skills unfortunately

http://patwarner.com/

[Dazm]

So it seems that to get a router lift that enables above the table bit changes I will need to get one of the router bodies and fit that which starts to make things expensive.

I think a commercial table and fence with a Triton router might be the best way to get above the table changes without spending a fortune.

ive thought about building a table but at the moment I really have no idea what I need nor how to construct it so I think for me a commercial table and fence is the best option.

Now if if I could only work out exactly WHICH table and fence to buy.

[artme]

I built my own router table, as did my brother, and have big Triton router and this means I can change
bits above the table.

I've always wondered about lifts, they seem to be a needless expense when, if you really need a lift
because of the type of router you have, you can build a simple lift using a car jack. Much less expensive
and just as effective.

fancy fences are not needed either. Have a look at the GIFKINS router table and fence on the net and
you should get some good ideas there

[Chris Parks]

I think we see lifts differently to the US where they were developed for a specific purpose. The US has only relatively recently started using plunge routers in tables and used instead router motors in a lift. A lot of the router kits in the US have a removeable motor in a plunge base something we generally don't see here. An idea for a router table might well include a 120V power supply in the table and buy a router kit from the US, put a lift in and use the removeable motor in the lift.

[rayintheuk]

My router table consists of a suitably-sized piece of 19mm ply, reinforced where needed, into which I've sunk a Rousseau router plate that I drilled for my Triton routers. The ply is hung on a wall in my shop with hinges and the other end supported by two lengths of 50mm x 50mm timber, cut accurately to ensure a level table. The fence is MDF with a piece of laminate on the front faces and a small dust extraction box. This is clamped in position with two suitable clamps. I added some track later. You can see the table folded flat on the LH side of this picture (with the two timber uprights):

http://www.raygirling.com/images/gs03.jpg

Ray

[Ratbag]

Maybe I'm talking out of turn a bit here, but some of these USA designed, East Asian made tables seem grotesquely expensive. For years (20?) I managed quite happily with a pair of Elu routers mounted in a Mk.III Triton table and Elu "mini spindle". They were expensive at the time, but the results were everything I'd hoped for: hundreds of square meters of T&G flooring, VJ lining, Mouldings, Architraves, Skirtings, Glazing Bars etc. all processed from Myrtle, Celery Top, King Billy Blackwood & Wattle I'd felled, sawn, dried & dressed myself.

A grand for a router table? Tell 'em they're dreamin'! There's good 2nd. hand examples available: flea-bay, trading post, gumtree and even the local tip shop. Or as other have suggested, make your own. For the merest fraction of these insane prices!

A good table is really nothing special or magical. All that's required is a flat, sag free surface with a hole or holes of the appropriate size, and an adjustable fence (for which part of a 4 x 2" hardwood stud and a couple of g-clamps works as well as any "Wankmeister XL1000S" does). The router can be screwed or clamped to the underside in a variety of ways, perhaps using the machines' guide rods and a couple of screwed hardwood clamps. If you work outside on the drive and wear a quality dust mask then even basic dust extraction can be forgone. It'll be messy but cheap & effective.

I like to use formply tops for sliding surfaces: it's stable, slippery but sufficiently robust to do a good job. If losing depth of cut is an issue (due to the thickness of the top) then the underside can be recessed slightly with the router freehand to allow the guide rods to touch the tables underside, thus allowing easy & distortion free clamping. Make the recess no larger than the router's base dimensions. To eliminate sag, a torsion box arrangement of 2 x 1" hardwood glued & screwed on edge to the underside will provide effective rigidity & stability.

There's also much less expensive (& just as effective I'm guessing) means of adjusting plunge quickly & accurately whilst inverted, & above the table bit exchange too. Just google "Woodrat Plungebar" & "Musclechuck" on the interweb for details of these inexpensive & innovative accessories. Both will prove extremely useful for freehand work too, which the other overpriced dedicated lifts won't.

[Chris Parks]

Some people like to buy bright shiny things and some like to make their own, neither is wrong and whatever floats your boat I guess. Criticising other peoples choices is a bit short sighted in my opinion and invites people to criticise your choices. Pointing out choices is a different thing altogether and should be encouraged.

[Ratbag]

Chris, you may very well be right. It wasn't my intention to criticise any punters for their spend-thrifty behaviour. In the spirit of debate I'm happy for, nay even encourage, dissent & opposition.

It's just MY opinion: I make absolutely no claim of infallability.

I was instead attempting to address the original poster's request for information. It was made clear that s/he was of somewhat limited means, and attempted to suggest alternative economical means of achieving an equivalent or even superior outcome for much less expenditure. Many of us simply cannot afford to be jackdaws.

If, in doing so any reader draws the conclusion that it's better to spend $3000+ odd on a router table than < 20% of the price inclusive of lifts, through the top bit exchange and drive unit then I'm puzzled.

If it's a matter of hang the expense, damn the torpedoes and let's go all in, then maybe an LO65 router hung off an Erika extension is in order. For the $6k odd it would want to be a pretty good setup indeed.

Even spending a grand or 2 on a table & lift is pretty dubious economy in my opinion. For that money, you could pick up a proper (second hand) dedicated tilting spindle moulder in cast iron or alloy complete with heads, knives, sliding table and cabinet base. There's plenty of formerly well heeled amateurs and even commercial workshops getting out of this level of quality gear all the time. The likes of good Kity, Felder, Elektra Beckum, Luna, Lurem, SCM, Robland and many other extremely well made Euro machines appear regularly at knock-down prices. A friend recently picked up an excellent Italian Combination machine & a couple of grand's worth of tooling for about 10% of its replacement price from a workshop closure. Less than the cost of a new router table and lift, actually!

What should perhaps also be mentioned is that some overly complicated table & lift combinations may severely compromise the utility of the router for other purposes. Once setup it can become time consuming & difficult to regularly remove the router for freehand work, and tiresome to replace and realign the tool properly, whereas using a tool's guide rods, a Plungebar and Musclechuck actually enhance BOTH freehand & table mounted routing. These accessories actually integrate with the router in all applications, rather than robbing the setup of much needed depth of cut as router lifts tend to do. Something that's seldom explained in their glossy marketing blurb.

For the past decade or so I've successfully used a Taiwanese table in cast iron, alloy & steel with a sliding wing that has proven useful for tenoning & fielding. Especially when coupled with a powerful 2300w router it allows versatile, accurate and repeatable work. Despite having a hinged top for height adjustment and bit exchange, the addition of a Plungebar and Musclechuck (actually in my case an "Eliminator" Chuck) makes having to lift the extremely heavy top (50kg +/-) redundant.

I don't doubt that alternative new tools would do as good or maybe even better job. The major difference in my experience is that adjustment and bit exchange in my setup is extremely rapid: <10 seconds for both. Just a reach and squeeze to adjust and a half turn twist of an allen key to remove or replace a bit. No more struggling against return springs or spanners & spindle locks required. No more painfully slow cranked handle height winders. The only time the top is raised & locked is to remove or replace the router, about a 5 min. job.

But the biggest buzz I have is that the whole setup including the router was (2nd. hand table & router, new accessories) less than $600.

[Evanism]

Outstanding suggestion of using a musclechuck! I'll be getting one for my under table triton TRA001.

Incedentally, I just use the Kreg plate in a home made side table extension for the tablesaw. Very low-buck, but insanely accurate. I used to have the Festool OF2200 mounted into the Festool router table and lifter, but sold it and used the loot for other toys.

I did however buy a nifty lifter from Hague @ Timbecon a year ago, but it's still in the box! I'll grab the Muslechuck and put that lifter into action! .....I need it as I make fine boxes. I find there is a need for rediculous accuracy....ordinary woodworkers don't need anything this precise :)

Edit: the new lifter plate was purchased as the lifting mechanism in the triton tra001 is a bit "sticky" or stictiony sometimes. A good dust and spot of oil on the pistons once every blue moon fixes it, but I'd rather avoid wearing it out :) .... Timbecons model was very nice and shiney tools are a weakness :)

[rayintheuk]

The Triton TRA001 - when used inverted in a table - is about the best design for such use, having the cooling fan outlets on the side of the motor housing instead of on the base, where they would be subject to falling debris and dust. However, as I've discovered, when you remove the plunge spring for inverted use it really pays to leave the spring cap off, allowing any debris and dust that may find its way inside (especially MDF dust) to fall straight through. If you don't do this, it is possible for an accumulation of dust to build up inside - clogging the gear mechanisms and forming a compacted ring around the leg bearings. It is also possible for dust to compact inside the spring cap to such an extent that it prevents the full raising (or plunging) for bit-changing.

Inevitably, with use - however careful that use is - some dust and debris will adhere to moving parts and a good clean-out pays dividends in smooth operation and wear prevention. I wrote a web page showing how to completely strip the TRA001 which may be useful if you're considering giving yours a good clean. You'll find the page at: Dismantling the Triton TRA001 3¼HP Router (http://www.raygirling.com/dismtra1.htm)

I hope it might be useful to someone.

Ray