Robinson Morticer Motor - how to remove spray paint

[woodlogic]

​Hi Folks,

One of the many projects on the to-do list at home was to disassemble and clean my Robinson morticer. I was rather fortunate to find this machine in Newcastle, and for the past few months it's been neglected, with all my work commitments/travel lately. Nevertheless, I've slowly disassembled the morticer and cleaned all parts. The wiring on the motor was frayed, so I cautiously took it to a motor professional to get rewired. In good nature, they returned the motor with a new coat of black spray paint all over the motor! Yes, yes, they were just doing a professional service...

Personally, I sway towards the conservation rather than restoration side of the argument. The fashion of a full strip and repaint doesn't appeal to me - where the original paint is still present; the history of use, character and patina of paint simply can't be created overnight. So I am interested if anyone has any suggestions on how to remove the black spray paint, whilst keeping the original paint underneath, should it be possible?

Regards,
Raymond.

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[L.S.Barker1970]

Hi Raymond,

Have you tried just a little paint thinners on a rag and wiping over an area of the black paint ?
Being a freshly painted it should come of easily.

Melbourne Matty.

[auscab]

see if a little metho on a white rag lifts the black off for a test, if it does you could try using a linseed oil and mineral turpentine mix, with 20% Metho added and shaken before rubbing it off with the rag . This is a method used for removing later coloured polish jobs off earlier faded original polish jobs in the Antique game . By mixing the solvent with a lubricant it slows the biting action of the solvent and gives better control . sometimes just using the solvent it turns the whole lot soft and is hard to control . You could try the same if thinners is the solvent that removes the top coat.

First thing I usually try is a heat gun and see if the top coat separates after a bit of warmth , give it a poke with a screw driver as well . We removed a later enamel paint job off a primitive farm find cabinet years ago . The original black crackled finish underneath came out from under a pale green , it sold well after all that work.

Rob

[sion.dovey]

Raymond, I have had that same thing done and it was really annoying, I didn't try to resolve it in that case but I do have a little experience that might not be entirely appropriate to your problem but I found it interesting when I discovered it. I tried electrolysis recently for rust removal with success, but also found the soaking in the dissolved washing soda bath easily removed later paintwork, whilst leaving the original machine paint apparently unharmed. I know very little about paint and don't understand the processes involved, but maybe it's useful.

I hope you'll post more of your mortiser, Robinson machines are nice.

[Pommy Ker]

There will be a layer situation with the two different chemical compounds laying on top of one another. The trick is to seperate the two layers. If you could encourage the edge or try and pick the paint with a pin , "mind you it looks too thin", you may find with a bit of heat , the new layer will seperate and pick off like a scab.

The trick is how do you seperate the two layers? If you knew the paint that was used you could find out what chemical is used in the paint and find a solute for only that paint , I,m guessing the origional paint if old , would be different and hardened more, but this could be checked. Alternatively, sod the old paint , and give it a fresh coat, who cares realy and truly. I know , its nice to keep origionality but......

In the UK , history is often bull dosed for new crappy americanised shops, imagine that when your thinking about your paint. Plus...... Carl Faberge,s workshop in Russia, is now a McDonalds ! Sod it, just paint it mate !!! Think of poor Carl turning in his grave! Not on a lathe either !

You could heat up a knife and try putting the very thin edge of it on a tiny sample area of new paint , holding it there for a few seconds like a tiny heat gun and see if just that thin line of new paint comes off easily with a rub of your finger? If only the new stuff comes off, gentle heat gun and rub it off.

[Pommy Ker]

Remember , when your heating the paint , its not only the heat softening the surface, its actually "drying"/shrinking its surface area, this has the same effect as pulling the edges of the paint up like you would a carpet, if you slowly dry the surface, you get the pulling action without necessarily hating the paint below too much , giving you a better chance of removing only the surface paint. AN EDUCATED GUESS, which is lets face it, all there is anywhere !

[jcge]

Raymond....just a thought, that next time you send something out that you don't want painted, you may want to give it a waxing beforehand...just in case.

Hope it cleans up OK

Please do post some pics of the Morticer when you get it back together.

Regards
John

[woodlogic]

Hi folks,

Following up from the original post, I want to firstly thank everyone for their input. Rob's suggestion of the linseed oil and mineral turpentine mix with 20% methylated spirits worked well. Unfortunately the paint on my morticer is weathered and aged from years of tarnish and use - the colour is almost black, compared to the original grey. So when applied with the mixture, it removed the new paint and the tarnish, only to reveal the original grey colour. Perhaps I could have slowed it down further, but nevertheless, that mix and approach seemed to do the best if anyone encounters a similar problem, albeit without the years of tarnished paint. Just to give you an idea, the attached picture below shows the original colour that was hidden by what I assume was the sharpening attachment.

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The mortiser had a bit of work needed. The chain holding the motor and counterweight was being held together by nails and screws - yes, nails and screws where the link had broken. The whole machine was stripped and all bearings replaced. The motor also was re-wired. Most notably, the drive cogs were well worn, so they were replaced.
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As part of the rebuild, I also had help from a friend to turn new collets for the chisel bit and auger. The sizes were made to suite the NH Japanese mortise chisel bits. And a note for other mortise users out there, have a look at the attached article that compared the old Cilco brand chisel bits against the NH Japan: Mortise Chisel & Bits for Morticers at Scott+Sargeant Woodworking Machinery / UK (http://scosarg.com/tooling/mortiser-tools/chisels-bits)

Some of you folks may know Cilco no longer operate, but there still are many 'new old stock' quantities available. Cilco are held in high regard, so it was surprising reading the article about the quality of NH Japan. Currently I'm making a Green & Green inspired bed from White Cedar with plenty of mortise joinery and the NH Japan bits are proving very clean in the cut.
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Below are a few final pictures once everything was finished.
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Overall, the humorous aspect was that a local saw company contacted me recently asking if I wanted a Wadkin MF. I couldn't resist, given the incredibly cheap price. So now I have two mortisers. What to do about the Robinson...
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Regards,
Raymond.

[auscab]

Glad to hear it helped Raymond. It took the patina with it though . You can add that back with a bit of experimenting .

It looks real nice anyway.

You replaced those angled drive cogs ? where did you find them ?

Rob

[L.S.Barker1970]

Overall, the humorous aspect was that a local saw company contacted me recently asking if I wanted a Wadkin MF. I couldn't resist, given the incredibly cheap price. So now I have two mortisers. What to do about the Robinson...

Regards,
Raymond.

Raymond I'd keep both !
Why not ?
They are both beautiful machines.
Run all your fine chisles in the Robinson for delicate work and use the wadkin chisel and chain for big work and hogging out larger jobs.
Just my 2 cents ....

Melbourne Matty.

[Vann]

Overall, the humorous aspect was that a local saw company contacted me recently asking if I wanted a Wadkin MF. I couldn't resist, given the incredibly cheap price. So now I have two mortisers. What to do about the Robinson...
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What a pleasant dilemma :U.

IMHO you've invested too much time and effort into the Robinson to part with it now. And it looks a very nice machine. I'm with Matty - until one machine or other gives you reason to want to part with it.

Cheers, Vann.

[woodlogic]

Raymond I'd keep both !
Why not ?
They are both beautiful machines.
Run all your fine chisles in the Robinson for delicate work and use the wadkin chisel and chain for big work and hogging out larger jobs.
Just my 2 cents ....

Melbourne Matty.

Probably good advice, Matty. Although, the [sensible] rule with my wife is that no other machines are allowed unless it can immediately fit in my workshop (a double garage). And at this stage, I'm still really keen on finding a Wadkin disc sander and a CD crosscut saw. Hell, just to give you perspective, I even have a DR 36 in the driveway, which is already pushing the boundaries - I believe Henry had a photo up in a recent post somewhere. But then again, maybe I should just make it work..