Sharpening a Stanley 81

[Arron]

Hi. Anyone know how to sharpen a Stanly 81. I guess sharpen is not quite the right word - I just want to know how to shape the blade. Should it be squared or bevelled ? Should there be a hook ?

thanks
Arron
and yes, I did a search first.

[derekcohen]

Hollow grind? :D

Bevel at 45 degrees and add a hook turned toward the flat side of the blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Arron]

Now that makes me think. If I add a hook, wont that hook be ragged.

How do I do a smooth hook?

thanks
Arron

[MikeW]

Hi Arron, here's a link I think will show you what is meant.

If you over "draw" the hook, you can make it ragged by breaking the thin edge. Also, if you do not hone the edge on a sharpening stone, it will be ragged.

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/I-3416.html

Mike

[derekcohen]

How do I do a smooth hook?

Arron

You know I was teasing about a hollow grind. Yes, I know, you know.

In addition to Mike's excellent reference, keep in mind that a scraper blade is no different to any other blade. The first step to a smooth edge is to joint it on high grit sandpaper or waterstones (I take mine up to 8000). Only then do you move on to the instructions Mike has provided. This will produce shavings that leave a smooth surface behind. Otherwise it is just useful to remove paint.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Termite]

How do I do a smooth hook?
Right or Left. :D

[JDarvall]

Hollow grind? :D

Bevel at 45 degrees and add a hook turned toward the flat side of the blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I don't have a strong knowledge on this. But why 45 degrees ?

I heard of some who think 90 degrees is no different. Which is better ? I don't have a clue.

I have a no.80. But I rarely use it. I prefer the freedom you get with card scrapers. But I have tried it at 90 degrees, and it did seem to work. ????

What do you think Derek ?

[derekcohen]

But why 45 degrees ?

Good question Jake.

The #80 (I have two of these), like the #81, comes with a 45 degree bevel. I imagined that this is considered a good compromise between durability and sharpness when creating a bevel. Scraping produces a lot of heat, and I suspect that it is this that destroys the edge. I have used the #80 both with and without a hook. It is better with a hook. I imagine that when you used the blade at 90 degrees that essentially it was cutting on the edge of the blade, that is, as if set up without a hook. While easy to use (since the scraping angle is fixed at a comfortable angle), like you, I much prefer using card scrapers.

Another way of looking at the bevel angle is to consider the #112 (I have the vintage Stanley version with a LN blade, but LN and LV also make them). The LN blade came with a 60 degree bevel originally. I believe that recent versions have dropped this to 45 degrees. I am trying mine at present with a 30 degree bevel, since I rely on the sharpness of the bevel edge as it is used without a hook. The #112 has an infinite, variable scraping angle. This should make it easier to use, but these planes are quite tricky to set up and, frankly, a pain in the butt most of the time. When set up, however, they can produce wonderful results.

Nothing beats a simple card scraper.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[IanW]

Nothing beats a simple card scraper.
Derek

For versatility, convenience and quality of finish..... agreed!

But when faced with about an acre of NG Rosewood benchtop with rowed grain that just would not cooperate with any plane I own, my old 80 earned its keep for the next 20 years! It's just like your 112, as I'm sure you're aware - if carefully set up with a well-edged blade, excellent results are possible. However, I confess mine spends much of its time in 'paint scraper' mode (at which it excells!), and card scrapers are what I reach for when more reasonably-sized areas need scraping.
Cheers,

[JDarvall]

Hi Derek,

It is better with a hook. I imagine that when you used the blade at 90 degrees that essentially it was cutting on the edge of the blade, that is, as if set up without a hook.
No, I did burnish a hook. Just like you do with card scrapers. You see, at the time I just assumed the no.80 would function just like a card scraper. So I sharpened and burnished the hook the same way. Scraped(or should I say 'cut' <- since thats what scrapers really are doing arn't they) just like a card. I gave up on the no.80, because it just felt like a fiddly alternative to something I could do with a card scraper. And it often was awkward to use at the edges of your work. Going off the deep end sort of thing. But I suppose you'd get used to that. Maybe this is when a 112 scraping plane would excell eh ?

The main reason why I'm questioning using a 90 over 45 degree angle (should it cut just as well, sharpened that way) is that it means you can sharpen 2 edges, both back and front, at the same time, just like a card scraper. So when one edge of your square sharpened blade dies you just flip it over and burnish the other side, put it back into your no.80 or 112 and saves you a trip back to your sharpening station......ie. would mean more scraping and less sharpening.
Personally, that sort of thing is always an issue. Saving time that is. For the same reason I will often work with 2 or more card scrapers at one time. Because I can do all my sharpening at once, and there will be less interruptions while working because I've got so many more edges to wear. Also good because when one blade heats up, getting to hot to handle, I just switch to a cool one, and keep going.

As with everyones experiences with the scraping planes. I can only imagine. Interesting though that you have mentioned some weaknesses. I've always wanted a 112. Good to hear negitives about a tool before buying. Because more often than not one hears nothing but rave revues. If you get my drift.

Anyhow, a good discussion I think.

Seeya. :)