vicmarc bowl jaws

[smiife]

Hi guys,
I have a set of bowl/cole jaws from vicmarc , today
was the first time I have used them , they come with
a set of screws but when i put the longer screws in
the bowl jaws would still move from side to side !
and they just didn, t seem right to me !
My question is do i have the wrong screws?
Does anyone know where i am going wrong?
Has anyone had the same problem ?
I did use the bowl/cole jaws but with the ordinary
small screws that came with the vicmarc chuck,
I only got maybe a half a turn on each smaller screws :o
Any help/advice would be appreciated:?

[bowl-basher]

I sort of remember that I had the same problem went to the "nut house" and bought some in-between but that was a few years ago
regards
Bowl Basher

[Optimark]

I have the same set of Cole Jaws, the longer screws that came with mine are used by me with no problems. The VM100 chuck screws that came with the chuck, are approximately 12mm in total length, the longer ones for the Cole jaws, are approximately 16mm long.

Mick.

[smiife]

I sort of remember that I had the same problem went to the "nut house" and bought some in-between but that was a few years ago
regards
Bowl Basher

Hi bb,
I have been trying to keep out the nuthouse:roll:............:U
But I know what you mean, I would have thought
when we buy these tools, chucks etc they would
come the proper fittings?


I have the same set of Cole Jaws, the longer screws that came with mine are used by me with no problems. The VM100 chuck screws that came with the chuck, are approximately 12mm in total length, the longer ones for the Cole jaws, are approximately 16mm long.

Mick.

Hi mick,
Just checked the lengh of mine and they are the same
12mm for the chuck screws and 16mm for the bowl jaws ,my chuck is
the larger vm120, so you would think they would be the same?
Something not right here !!

[Sawdust Maker]

I'd suggest that you contact Vicmarc and see what the answer might be

[smiife]

I'd suggest that you contact Vicmarc and see what the answer might be

Hi nick,
Yeah , I think I might do that tomorrow,
Thanks:2tsup:

[Optimark]

The jaws for the VM90/100 are different than the VM120/140/150 jaw range, well their part numbers are different anyway.

I remember when purchasing my Cole Jaw set I had to ensure that they were for the correct chuck.

I have just looked at my Cole Jaw set and cannot see anything to tell you their part number, which is a pity. I have what is called by Vicmarc, Bowl 285 part number V00640 from my chuck manual. The same size jaws for the VM120/140/150 chucks are called, Bowl 285, part number V00672.

I would suggest a call to Vicmarc to ascertain if what you have can work safely on your chuck, if so, what do you need to acquire or do to allow this to happen.

Mick.

[smiife]

Hi mick,
I used the bowl jaws with the smaller screws and
it seemed to hold ok , just not too much thread biting
In to the hole, I will get on to vicmarc and see what they
say, thanks for your thoughts , :2tsup:

[Treecycle]

Have you checked that over time you have not compressed sawdust into the bottom of the holes when changing the other jaws over (if you do that). Try digging around in the bottom of the holes with a sharp object such as a scriber and see if you can dislodge anything.

[Mobyturns]

the bowl jaws would still move from side to side !


Smifie,

You say the jaws still moved side to side - but were the cap screws locked down firm?

The movement could be from the manufacturing clearance between the backing jaw slides and the chuck body. That small range of sideways movement is not normally noticed with standard jaws or even the larger 100 mm jaws on the VM90/100. However when you mount the Cole (bowl) Jaws it becomes apparent because of the much larger diameter of the aluminium jaw plates. Simple proportion - approx 8 times the movement compared to the standard 50 mm jaws; or 4 times the 100 mm jaws.

If you can't snug down the cap screws tight against the aluminium jaw plate it probably means there is gunk in the threaded holes being compressed into the hole. The holes are blind due to the machined scroll lugs on the rear of the slides.

May be time to give the chuck a clean. :wink:

Definitely not a wise move to continue using the shorter cap screws (M5 x 12 Screw, Socket Flat Head) with the Cole Jaws.

ps If anyone wishes to purchase replacements, much cheaper to group buy and purchase by the 100, for their Vicmarc VM90/100 chucks ask your bolt supplier for -

VM90/100 standard jaws - "countersunk (flat) socket head cap screw M5 x 12"
VM90/100 cole jaws - "countersunk (flat) socket head cap screw M5 x 16"

The VM120/140 use M6

VM120/140 standard jaws - "countersunk (flat) socket head cap screw M6 x 12"
VM120/140 cole jaws - "countersunk (flat) socket head cap screw M6 x 16"

[smiife]

Have you checked that over time you have not compressed sawdust into the bottom of the holes when changing the other jaws over (if you do that). Try digging around in the bottom of the holes with a sharp object such as a scriber and see if you can dislodge anything.

Hi treecycle,
I didn, t check the holes, but I will now !!
I doubt if there is any rubbish in there because I normally
give everthing a blast with the airgun when I do change jaws etc!
Thanks for your advice .:2tsup:


Smifie,

You say the jaws still moved side to side - but were the cap screws locked down firm?

The movement could be from the manufacturing clearance between the backing jaw slides and the chuck body. That small range of sideways movement is not normally noticed with standard jaws or even the larger 100 mm jaws on the VM90/100. However when you mount the Cole (bowl) Jaws it becomes apparent because of the much larger diameter of the aluminium jaw plates. Simple proportion - approx 8 times the movement compared to the standard 50 mm jaws; or 4 times the 100 mm jaws.

If you can't snug down the cap screws tight against the aluminium jaw plate it probably means there is gunk in the threaded holes being compressed into the hole. The holes are blind due to the machined scroll lugs on the rear of the slides.

May be time to give the chuck a clean. :wink:

Definitely not a wise move to continue using the shorter cap screws (M5 x 12 Screw, Socket Flat Head) with the Cole Jaws.

ps If anyone wishes to purchase replacements, much cheaper to group buy and purchase by the 100, for their Vicmarc VM90/100 chucks ask your bolt supplier for -

VM90/100 standard jaws - "countersunk (flat) socket head cap screw M5 x 12"
VM90/100 cole jaws - "countersunk (flat) socket head cap screw M5 x 16"

The VM120/140 use M6

VM120/140 standard jaws - "countersunk (flat) socket head cap screw M6 x 12"
VM120/140 cole jaws - "countersunk (flat) socket head cap screw M6 x 16"

Hi moby,
No,! the 16mm screws wouldn, t tighten right down
I understand what you are saying about a certain amount
of movement sideways , but this was way more than normal,
I will check and see that the holes are clean, I might see If i
can get some 14mm screws,
I did get a email back from vicmarc, the advice given was
not to use the 12mm screws, but to grind a bit off the 16mm
ones ,:o
Thanks for your thoughts , much appreciated:2tsup:

[Treecycle]

I have just gone out and measured all the components I have. I use a VM120 chuck the same as yours. The thickness of the aluminium jaw is 10.1mm and when the screw is in the countersunk hole the head is 0.7mm below the surface.
The tapped holes in the jaws are 10.8mm deep and the screws are 16mm total length from the top of the head to the end of the thread. The thread of the screw should only need 6.6mm depth in the jaw to tighten up properly, but you should have 10.8mm.
Hope this helps with checking things out.

[smiife]

I have just gone out and measured all the components I have. I use a VM120 chuck the same as yours. The thickness of the aluminium jaw is 10.1mm and when the screw is in the countersunk hole the head is 0.7mm below the surface.
The tapped holes in the jaws are 10.8mm deep and the screws are 16mm total length from the top of the head to the end of the thread. The thread of the screw should only need 6.6mm depth in the jaw to tighten up properly, but you should have 10.8mm.
Hope this helps with checking things out.

Hi treecycle,
Thanks for your measurements, I have compared them
and mine are excactly the same ???
I measured the bowl jaw on the chuck with out the screw
in and It is 20mm ,,,,,, the screw is 16mm ,,,, so why won, t
It tighten up:no::~, all holes are clean , so not too sure what
to do next......any suggestions would be appreciated!

[Treecycle]

Have you tried screwing the screws in by hand without the jaws in place to ensure the thread is correct? You should be able to screw them in with your fingers until they bottom out in the thread, if not there is most likely a problem with the screws you received. Maybe they are 3/16" instead of 5mm.

[smiife]

Have you tried screwing the screws in by hand without the jaws in place to ensure the thread is correct? You should be able to screw them in with your fingers until they bottom out in the thread, if not there is most likely a problem with the screws you received. Maybe they are 3/16" instead of 5mm.

No I haven, t ......but I will try that thanks for your idea !

[smiife]

Hi guys,
I tried to get some 14mm screws today and apparently
they only make 12mm or 16mm, so i guess i will have
to grind the ends off as already suggested by vicmarc!
Stay tuned for the next installment :o:o:o

[Big Shed]

When you get the 16mm bolts get the nuts with them too and keep them on when grinding them shorter, then when you have the right length take them off, it will clean up up the thread.

[Mobyturns]

Hi guys,
I tried to get some 14mm screws today and apparently
they only make 12mm or 16mm, so i guess i will have
to grind the ends off as already suggested by vicmarc!
Stay tuned for the next installment :o:o:o

This site lists 14 mm long M5 - Countersunk (Flat) Socket Head Cap Screws, Socket Head Cap Screws (http://www.unitedfasteners.com.au/hexagon-socket-screws/socket-head-cap-screws-106/countersunk-flat-socket-head-cap-screws)

[smiife]

When you get the 16mm bolts get the nuts with them too and keep them on when grinding them shorter, then when you have the right length take them off, it will clean up up the thread.

Hi fred,
Thanks for your advice , never thought of doing that!:2tsup:


This site lists 14 mm long M5 - Countersunk (Flat) Socket Head Cap Screws, Socket Head Cap Screws (http://www.unitedfasteners.com.au/hexagon-socket-screws/socket-head-cap-screws-106/countersunk-flat-socket-head-cap-screws)

Hi moby,
Thanks for the heads up, have sent a email ,
Selling In boxes of 100 ,,, anyone want to buy
the other 92 screws:o?...
Will see what the cost is first !

[Acco]

This site lists 14 mm long M5 - Countersunk (Flat) Socket Head Cap Screws, Socket Head Cap Screws (http://www.unitedfasteners.com.au/hexagon-socket-screws/socket-head-cap-screws-106/countersunk-flat-socket-head-cap-screws)



Hi moby,
Thanks for the heads up, have sent a email ,
Selling In boxes of 100 ,,, anyone want to buy
the other 92 screws:o?...
Will see what the cost is first !

You might want to double check your sizes, don't you need M6 for your chuck?

[Mobyturns]

The VM90/100 use M5 & the VM 120/140 use M6.

I purchased through Boltmasters many years ago and have kept most for myself but have sold many sets to other turners at cost. From memory it was about $15 per 100?? I also purchases both the 12 & 16 mm M5 & M6 as well as the socket head cap screws for the bowl jaw stops. All up it was about $70.

[smiife]

You might want to double check your sizes, don't you need M6 for your chuck?

Hi acco,
I have no Idea what size they are! !,,, does m6 mean
6mm wide/diameter ?


The VM90/100 use M5 & the VM 120/140 use M6.

I purchased through Boltmasters many years ago and have kept most for myself but have sold many sets to other turners at cost. From memory it was about $15 per 100?? I also purchases both the 12 & 16 mm M5 & M6 as well as the socket head cap screws for the bowl jaw stops. All up it was about $70.

Hi moby,
Do I need the M6 screws then , my chuck Is the vm120 ?
Would you like to sell me some ?:U

[Mobyturns]

Hi moby,
Do I need the M6 screws then , my chuck Is the vm120 ?
Would you like to sell me some ?:U

Not sure how many I have left, I will have a look tonight. If your chuck is the VM120 then they will be M6. I only purchased the standard 12 mm & 16 mm so won't that be what you already have?? :?

[Treecycle]

Yes M6 means the diameter, so therefore 6mm.

[Acco]

Hi acco,
I have no Idea what size they are! !,,, does m6 mean
6mm wide/diameter ?


Yes M6 is 6mm thread. The M is the abbreviation for Metric which is what Vicmarc uses as a standard for their chucks.

If you have trouble sourcing some 14mm long screws or have trouble grinding some shorter, I can either source or grind some down for you. I may even have some here already that I can send.

[smiife]

Yes M6 is 6mm thread. The M is the abbreviation for Metric which is what Vicmarc uses as a standard for their chucks.

If you have trouble sourcing some 14mm long screws or have trouble grinding some shorter, I can either source or grind some down for you. I may even have some here already that I can send.

Hi acco,
That Is very kind of you ,, will try on the weekend
and let you know how I go, thanks for the offer:2tsup:


Yes M6 means the diameter, so therefore 6mm.

Hi treecycle,
Thanks for that,:B


Not sure how many I have left, I will have a look tonight. If your chuck is the VM120 then they will be M6. I only purchased the standard 12 mm & 16 mm so won't that be what you already have?? :?

Hi moby,
Yes , I already have 12mm and 16mm ,, I will
have a go at grinding them off on the weekend
I will let you know what happens:o

[Big Shed]

smiife I don't know how many you want but here are some f/h M6x14

50pcs Stainless Steel M6X14MM Metric HEX Socket Flat Head Screw Bolts Fasteners | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50pcs-Stainless-Steel-M6x14mm-Metric-Hex-Socket-Flat-Head-Screw-Bolts-Fasteners-/271955436544?hash=item3f51cea400:g:tYEAAOSwjVVVyzZS)

50pcs Silver Stainless Steel Flat Countersunk Head HEX Socket Screw M6 X 14mm | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50pcs-Silver-Stainless-Steel-Flat-Countersunk-Head-Hex-Socket-Screw-M6-x-14mm-/201413653396?hash=item2ee5307394:g:KlIAAOSwLVZV2pI1)

[smiife]

smiife I don't know how many you want but here are some f/h M6x14

50pcs Stainless Steel M6X14MM Metric HEX Socket Flat Head Screw Bolts Fasteners | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50pcs-Stainless-Steel-M6x14mm-Metric-Hex-Socket-Flat-Head-Screw-Bolts-Fasteners-/271955436544?hash=item3f51cea400:g:tYEAAOSwjVVVyzZS)

50pcs Silver Stainless Steel Flat Countersunk Head HEX Socket Screw M6 X 14mm | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50pcs-Silver-Stainless-Steel-Flat-Countersunk-Head-Hex-Socket-Screw-M6-x-14mm-/201413653396?hash=item2ee5307394:g:KlIAAOSwLVZV2pI1)

Hi fred,
$9.00 for 50 is good , posted free from china
You could , t go wrong could you !
Thanks for the Info :2tsup:

[Acco]

smiife I don't know how many you want but here are some f/h M6x14

50pcs Stainless Steel M6X14MM Metric HEX Socket Flat Head Screw Bolts Fasteners | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50pcs-Stainless-Steel-M6x14mm-Metric-Hex-Socket-Flat-Head-Screw-Bolts-Fasteners-/271955436544?hash=item3f51cea400:g:tYEAAOSwjVVVyzZS)

50pcs Silver Stainless Steel Flat Countersunk Head HEX Socket Screw M6 X 14mm | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50pcs-Silver-Stainless-Steel-Flat-Countersunk-Head-Hex-Socket-Screw-M6-x-14mm-/201413653396?hash=item2ee5307394:g:KlIAAOSwLVZV2pI1)


Hi fred,
$9.00 for 50 is good , posted free from china
You could , t go wrong could you !
Thanks for the Info :2tsup:

Using stainless screws repeatably could lead to them galling and you'll be in sorts of trouble trying to unscrew them.

Stick with the plain screws, yes they'll wear out eventually, but you'll be able to remove them whereas stainless are a mongrel to remove once they gall and will most likely destroy the thread in the chuck as well

[Mobyturns]

Using stainless screws repeatably could lead to them galling and you'll be in sorts of trouble trying to unscrew them.

Stick with the plain screws, yes they'll wear out eventually, but you'll be able to remove them whereas stainless are a mongrel to remove once they gall and will most likely destroy the thread in the chuck as well

Very good point. One trick I learned a long time ago - put a light coating of Vaseline, light grease or dri-lube on the cap screws before inserting them into the jaw backing slides. Makes a huge difference next time around when you want to remove the cap screws. Once the screws gall it is not fun removing them. Every couple of years I throw the old cap screws away and replace them on the chucks I use regularly especially the larger 100mm bowl jaws. Probably a bit safety paranoia but the screws are cheap. The replacement is not so much about the screws shearing but more about minimizing the potential for corrosion and galling. A little bit of regular TLC also avoids problems.

[smiife]

Very good point. One trick I learned a long time ago - put a light coating of Vaseline, light grease or dri-lube on the cap screws before inserting them into the jaw backing slides. Makes a huge difference next time around when you want to remove the cap screws. Once the screws gall it is not fun removing them. Every couple of years I throw the old cap screws away and replace them on the chucks I use regularly especially the larger 100mm bowl jaws. Probably a bit safety paranoia but the screws are cheap. The replacement is not so much about the screws shearing but more about minimizing the potential for corrosion and galling. A little bit of regular TLC also avoids problems.

Hi moby,
Thanks for the tips, will give the chuck a bit of tlc
on the weekend, I don, t get much time during the
week to do anything in the shed:~


Using stainless screws repeatably could lead to them galling and you'll be in sorts of trouble trying to unscrew them.

Stick with the plain screws, yes they'll wear out eventually, but you'll be able to remove them whereas stainless are a mongrel to remove once they gall and will most likely destroy the thread in the chuck as well

Hi dj,
Thanks for the heads up, maybe not worth
the hassle ! Will try and grind the threads down
a bit and make do with the ones that came with
the jaws,,, I still don, t understand why they wouldn, t
supply the proper screws In the first place!!!!!:doh:

[Old Croc]

I still don, t understand why they wouldn, t
supply the proper screws In the first place!!!!!:doh:

Its called lack of quality control.
Crocy.

[smiife]

Hi guys,
Got a bit of shed time today, so I thought I
would try and grind down the screws, took
off 2mm and all is good, the jaws are nice
and tight now, thought i would show a few
photos on the process, and would like to thank everyone
for their help and advice

[Big Shed]

Good stuff, glad you got it sorted:2tsup:

[smiife]

Good stuff, glad you got it sorted:2tsup:

Thanks for your help Fred,:2tsup: