Help me buy my dad a lathe?

[davidjames]

My Dad has wanted a woodworking lathe for some 15 years or more now but keeps putting it off so I thought I'd buy him one for his birthday in April.

I have used a metalwork lathe in the past but I really am a complete novice so I would appreciate some advice. "As large as possible" seemed to be some advice I recall when buying a lathe?

One thing for sure, he would like to make bowls. So having the lathe head turn 180 degrees /re-lock, or purposely having a larger depth the other side would be important.

If you had a moment, could you share some advice on what to buy?

I know this is something he's eyed but is far out of my reach: Axminster Trade Series AT1628VS Woodturning Lathe - Woodturning Lathes - Lathes - Machinery | Axminster Tools & Machinery (http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-trade-series-at1628vs-woodturning-lathe-502703)

I am looking to find something good quality second hand.

This Axminster M900 seems similar? But is older. Also, I think at £300 it may be over priced. axminster wood turning lathe and stand | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252272742960?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

"Hilka" Hilka Pro-Craft Professional Variable Speed Wood Lathe | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141893110549?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

"NuTool" NUTOOL Variable Speed Wood Lathe, Robert Sorby Chisels plus extras | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272122839488?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

"Wadkin Bursgreen" wadkin bursgreen wood turning lathe with phase convertor runs from single phase | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262266009401?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

I imagine for convenience of not having to change belts to change speed, something more modern might be more friendly?

Are there any brands to avoid in this area? Can anyone recommend something? I'd be willing to go up to around £500 if necessary. I essentially want something well made that will allow him to do as much as possible.

Thanks in advance! :)

[Enfield Guy]

Of the three I reckon the Wadkin is the pick. A good old brand. the castings will be substantial and the fact that it is inverter driven with the bonus of variable speed drive makes it a no brainer for me.

Cheers
Bevan

[orraloon]

The Wadkin would be my pick also. It is old but very good quality and the power conversion has been done. By far the best value also.
Regards
John

[malb]

Not an expert but I would prefer the Wadkin as well, for the quality and reputation of the manufacturer, and the robustness of their product, which is designed for long term industrial use. Others tend to be rebadged generic Chinese stuff, which tends to be real 'luck of the draw" stuff. If the importer had someone monitoring quality at the factory, and had not tried to wind down the price too much, they might get a decent batch of machines, if they pushed for the cheapest ex factory price and were not monitoring the factory for quality etc, they would get a batch assembled from reject, out of tolerance, or poor quality parts. The Chinese tend to run a constant improvement program (intended to improve their margin, not overall quality), so there is variance from batch to batch for importers, so no guarantee that parts for a current unit from the importer would fit/match/be suitable for a nominally identical 4 or 5yo model from the importer, so spares are not always readily available.
I looked at the Axminster listing you provided, and in the 'people who looked at this item also looked at' section there was a very similar Prager unit currently at 99pd, suggesting that your thoughts about the Axminster being overpriced may be correct. Always pays to compare items to ensure what is included/not included before comparing price. A decent chuck and accessories, extra tool rests, extra centres, etc included could make a machine which looks expensive at first glance an absolute bargain in the longer run.
Sorry, like many of us in OZ, I am not truly familiar with prices/values in English pounds, but a decent Wadkin would win hands down over a Chinese generic import for the same money and inclusions.

[DaveTTC]

The middle 3 are all the same just different badges and colour

Not keen on the first

Does the last one have evs (electronic variable speed )

The last is the best of the pick IMHO. Maybe it could have evs added within your budget if it does not have ot already.

Personally i not long ago got a laguna revo 18/36

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160204/b6e43977a26ce9403138c65e78442d36.jpg

Loving it. Thats my daughter turning a bowl (with a little help)

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[artful bodger]

Buy the Wadkin at once!. Do not dilly dally around.
If your Dad does not like it you should be able to sell it with profit down the track.

[powderpost]

Buy the Wadkin at once!. Do not dilly dally around.
If your Dad does not like it you should be able to sell it with profit down the track.


Agreed...

Jim

[Mobyturns]

I agree, the Wadkin is a good buy, providing it is legit. Whether it is practical for you to pick up or freight is another matter.

[hughie]

Wadkin!

[artful bodger]

Pounce on it David!
Don't let it slip between your fingers.
Even if Dad does not like it.

[artful bodger]

I would buy that lathe if it were in a 5000 klm radius.
Wadkin made quality stuff.
Go on, get it.

[davidjames]

So there doesn't seem to be a clear choice from what I linked, does there? :)

That's all really helpful info chaps, thank you for that. I will do my best to get something older as you've all suggested and avoid the newer Chinese creations, but, if you don't mind, I might also stop by just to double check specific brands with you.

Sadly, the Wadkin is actually very far away. Scotland, I need it delivered in the West Midlands, Shropshire. I was just sharing a few different versions of what I'd seen, so unfortunately that one is likely out of reach - I will do a quick search for what it would cost to have it shipped, but I'm assuming too much.

This one is a little closer, is there significant difference? wadkin wood turning lathe | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182008532652?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

Also, with the one I linked before, he would still have to change pulleys etc to change the speed? (wadkin bursgreen wood turning lathe with phase convertor runs from single phase | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262266009401?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT0))

edit: seems delivery would be a little under £100 insured, which isn't too bad really. Considering all the time, fuel, stress that would be involved with trying to collect something like this yourself.

[Paul39]

David,

The Wadkin. It is three times the lathe of the other two. The Wadkin in the first post is a screaming deal, The second one is still better by far than the Chinese machines.

Yes, the speed range is OK on the second one. 425 is a decent low end. My 350 mm swing lathe has a low of 700 which gets a bit interesting with a big out of balance blank but it works.

Info on Wadkin lathes:

Wadkin BZL Wood lathe (http://www.lathes.co.uk/wadkin/page2.html)

[DaveTTC]

It would still be worth enquiring about having it modified to EVS. I imagine the 3ph would convert easier without changing the motor but I dont teally no electrical stuff

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[malb]

The first Wadkin listed has some speed variation from the Jaguar conversion, and has the step pulley setup as well. This is a good combo as you can set the step pulleys for the task at hand, and use the electronics to handle most of the variations within the job, without having to change the belt system.

Unfortunately the second Wadkin, being single phase mains, only has the step pulleys so is not as flexible as the first with steps and EVS. It could however have a 3 phase motor and converter added later to extend versatility if needed.

[davidjames]

Thank you all for your help with this, it is sincerely appreciated.

I am going to do my best to try and win the first Wadkin listed based on all of your thoughts, it seems like a great machine.

If I fail, I will try to seek something older, made in the UK of similar size, AND with a conversion already fitted. That seems like a good balance between both worlds.

I will let you know if I have any success...

edit: I may have misjudged the size of this thing for pallet delivery... it seems around 350KG is an honest enough estimate. But the length (around 180cm) does make it somewhat difficult!

Best quote so far for shipping... £184.20. Ouch!

[davidjames]

So it has begun...

Won the lathe for a little over £500. I have a pallet courier for around £100, who will have a small truck to pickup/drop off, so all relatively easy. Only difficulty is they give you only 10 minutes to put it on the pallet which they supply, which is impossible. So I will have to somehow get the pallet to the seller, or ask him to source one, and have him assemble everything ready for transport. I will hope he's willing to help to some extent given the nature of the item he's selling... we shall see...

[DaveTTC]

I imagine he will oblige

Congratulations

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[DiRob]

What ever you do don't and I cant express enough buy Chinese I purchased one in Australia and it has to be the worst purchase I have ever made. So called digital speed control dosen't work lathe stops and starts I have junked it due to no one having the skill to get it going[still under warranty] not worth the paper it comes with. From what I can gather the dc motor is the problem.

[Paul39]

So it has begun...

Won the lathe for a little over £500. I have a pallet courier for around £100, who will have a small truck to pickup/drop off, so all relatively easy. Only difficulty is they give you only 10 minutes to put it on the pallet which they supply, which is impossible. So I will have to somehow get the pallet to the seller, or ask him to source one, and have him assemble everything ready for transport. I will hope he's willing to help to some extent given the nature of the item he's selling... we shall see...

The lathe is top heavy and if it falls over will shatter like glass. The left side extensions will unbolt, as will the bed to the right of the upright center section. I think the legs will also unbolt. Taken apart and placed lying down on the pallet with lots of cardboard between to prevent scuffing should help getting it to you intact.

Have the seller put all the loose bits in a stout box, preferably wooden, with cardboard between for padding.

Would it be at all possible for you and or your father to rent a trailer or truck to get it your self? That would be the safest. No one you hire will be as careful as you.

I hope it comes to you intact and your father has many happy days with it.

You might consider getting some stated value insurance for what you paid plus shipping. In the US the furnished transport insurance pays pennies on the dollar value of shipped goods.

[davidjames]

The lathe is top heavy and if it falls over will shatter like glass. The left side extensions will unbolt, as will the bed to the right of the upright center section. I think the legs will also unbolt. Taken apart and placed lying down on the pallet with lots of cardboard between to prevent scuffing should help getting it to you intact.

Have the seller put all the loose bits in a stout box, preferably wooden, with cardboard between for padding.

Would it be at all possible for you and or your father to rent a trailer or truck to get it your self? That would be the safest. No one you hire will be as careful as you.

I hope it comes to you intact and your father has many happy days with it.

You might consider getting some stated value insurance for what you paid plus shipping. In the US the furnished transport insurance pays pennies on the dollar value of shipped goods.

Thanks Paul, I was going to come back and ask about how the weight is distributed for this exact reason.

As it is a gift and my dad is short on time, renting & collecting ourselves wouldn't be too feasible.

The plan is to:

- Take it apart and lay it down so it is not top heavy
- Cover all parts with padding eg cardboard to protect it in transit
- Put smaller loose bits in a box, all padded
- Use ratchet straps to secure everything down
- Cover with shrink film

The pallet courier gives us full insurance. I wouldn't ship without insurance.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan?

[Paul39]

Thanks Paul, I was going to come back and ask about how the weight is distributed for this exact reason.

As it is a gift and my dad is short on time, renting & collecting ourselves wouldn't be too feasible.

The plan is to:

- Take it apart and lay it down so it is not top heavy
- Cover all parts with padding eg cardboard to protect it in transit
- Put smaller loose bits in a box, all padded
- Use ratchet straps to secure everything down
- Cover with shrink film

The pallet courier gives us full insurance. I wouldn't ship without insurance.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan?

That is good. Be sure to block the motor as it is probably held in running position by gravity, pulling down on the belt. Remove the belt from the motor pulley, cram cardboard around and / or tie in place with rope.

I think all will go OK.

[DaveTTC]

Plus 1

Sounds like a gone plan

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[davidjames]

The guy I bought it off works for a pallet company at times (and deals with machinery), so was of great help with shipping, it'll only cost me £42 now to ship next day. He's also just been very helpful and genuine which is also nice, I'll have to get him a gift after all is done.

It's arriving Friday at my parents address...

btw, I'm a photographer, so I might share some documentation in the future.

[DaveTTC]

Cool

Yes woodies are often good blokes. Look forward to your doco

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[davidjames]

Good news! It arrived safely at lunch time today I am told. I haven't told my Dad he has this gift yet, I am not sure what to do though as it's not really something you can wrap? Wrapping paper, anyone? I am heading back up next week...

[Dalboy]

Good news! It arrived safely at lunch time today I am told. I haven't told my Dad he has this gift yet, I am not sure what to do though as it's not really something you can wrap? Wrapping paper, anyone? I am heading back up next week...


Throw a blanket over it until the reveal

[Paul39]

Good news! It arrived safely at lunch time today I am told. I haven't told my Dad he has this gift yet, I am not sure what to do though as it's not really something you can wrap? Wrapping paper, anyone? I am heading back up next week...

Send a card with a photograph. Unless he has space reserved in his shop it will take a little adjusting mentally and physically to get it in place.

[DaveTTC]

Ok i like the photo and the balnket idea. You can even stick a bow on the blanket if you like

With the photo id print off a pic of a small crappy lathe and then show him that. Asking if he wants to come thru and see whatyou got him. Then let him be overwhelmed with the beast

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[davidjames]

Time has flown!

There was an initial learning curve, but he's quite competent now, much more confident, and producing some really nice pieces. Currently working on a lamp, and soon he'll be making me a pepper mill!

As promised, here are a few photos, nothing special, but just something I wanted to get.

I made a post on my blog too, which will offer bigger images and a bit of the back story behind what was being made etc, if you care to browse: the best coffee, every morning | Richard Harris Photography | Wedding Photographer Shropshire (http://www.rharris-images.com/best-coffee-every-morning/)

http://www.rharris-images.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Dad-using-lathe-web-850-3.jpg

http://www.rharris-images.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Dad-using-lathe-web-850-6.jpg

http://www.rharris-images.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Dad-using-lathe-web-850-1.jpg

[rtyuiop]

Great photos - and interesting to see a turning shop which hasn't yet been filled up with either shavings or miscellaneous chisels and bits and pieces!

[BobL]

Yes great photos but dust extraction is missing.

Most turners have no idea that wood turning is THE MOST DIY DUST MAKING woodworking activity around.
Even a small lathe will generate on average dust levels some 10 time above health and safety levels.

[davidjames]

Great photos - and interesting to see a turning shop which hasn't yet been filled up with either shavings or miscellaneous chisels and bits and pieces!

Really?! There is so much "stuff" in there, I am surprised it is functional at all. He has made a few shelves for storing lathe related items, but there is so much of everything else... getting there slowly, at least.

[davidjames]

Yes great photos but dust extraction is missing.

Most turners have no idea that wood turning is THE MOST DIY DUST MAKING woodworking activity around.
Even a small lathe will generate on average dust levels some 10 time above health and safety levels.

If you see the penultimate image on the full post, you may be able to see it in the bottom right corner? Attached to the wall?

A good question though. He only seems to think it's worth turning on when on the final stage of sanding. Is that correct? I did tell him about the importance of extraction before he set it all up, and almost forced him to go get one.

Can you point me towards an article on extraction? Just so I have something for him to read. Want to keep it safe! (And on that subject, I won't mention the various learning curve mistakes...)

[Pat]

David, is there a woodworking/turning club near your father or a professional running classes? It will expand his knowledge base a lot quicker.

[davidjames]

David, is there a woodworking/turning club near your father or a professional running classes? It will expand his knowledge base a lot quicker.

I'm not sure, I will try looking into this for him. Thus far, from what he tells me, he has just been learning from youtube clips and from a book my sister gifted him. He is confident with all the cuts now, and is making them cleanly. Would it still be worth it for him? I fear he's not the most sociable type, so if I suggest it, he might just dismiss it :). Maybe I could gift it him and then he'd be obligated ;)

[Pat]

In a word yes!

Especially from a competent instructor.

You can only learn so much from youtube and books.

Shropshire, you said?

Try Shropshire Association of Woodturners (http://www.shropshire-woodturners.org.uk/)

or Craft courses (http://www.craftcourses.com/search?category=8&location=West+Midlands)
or the Register of Professional Turners (http://registerofprofessionalturners.co.uk/turners_category/tutors/)

[BobL]

I can see something that looks like a vacuum cleaner?
If that is what it is, then that will be around 10X less dust extraction than what is needed for a lathe.


I Can you point me towards an article on extraction? Just so I have something for him to read. Want to keep it safe! (And on that subject, I won't mention the various learning curve mistakes...)

If only it were that simple that it could be encompassed in one article.
We have a whole forum on this topic. http://www.woodworkforums.com/f200


You could start by showing your dad this.
The OHS maximum exposure is 5mg/m3 for softwood and 1mg/m3 for hardwoods and these are now considered too high.
The danger is not so much nose and throat cancer although this can happen but there is a much larger risk of developing an allergy to wood - then the lathe can't be used at all.

382232

The neat thing is a lather can participate in generating something called a bell mouth hood.
Look here http://www.woodworkforums.com/f200/draft-faq-dust-extraction-practical-aspects-154136#post1933947

[davidjames]

I can see something that looks like a vacuum cleaner?
If that is what it is, then that will be around 10X less dust extraction than what is needed for a lathe.



If only it were that simple that it could be encompassed in one article.
We have a whole forum on this topic. http://www.woodworkforums.com/f200


You could start by showing your dad this.
The OHS maximum exposure is 5mg/m3 for softwood and 1mg/m3 for hardwoods and these are now considered too high.
The danger is not so much nose and throat cancer although this can happen but there is a much larger risk of developing an allergy to wood - then the lathe can't be used at all.

382232

The neat thing is a lather can participate in generating something called a bell mouth hood.
Look here http://www.woodworkforums.com/f200/draft-faq-dust-extraction-practical-aspects-154136#post1933947

Good god. I just spent 5 minutes trying to find exactly what he had purchased, and it is a friggin' vacuum cleaner! I asked him about it, he assured me it was good, I didn't think much else of it.

It looks almost identical to this one: 15L 1100W 230V Wet and Dry Vacuum Cleaner | Draper Tools (http://www.drapertools.com/product/13779/15L-1100W-230V-Wet-and-Dry-Vacuum-Cleaner)

This isn't even remotely appropriate, is it?

Can you suggest something that would be? Also, are you to leave it on the entire time you've got the lathe running? Going to contact him about this ASAP!

[davidjames]

In a word yes!

Especially from a competent instructor.

You can only learn so much from youtube and books.

Shropshire, you said?

Try Shropshire Association of Woodturners (http://www.shropshire-woodturners.org.uk/)

or Craft courses (http://www.craftcourses.com/search?category=8&location=West+Midlands)
or the Register of Professional Turners (http://registerofprofessionalturners.co.uk/turners_category/tutors/)

Very true! And awesome, thank you for the links!

[BobL]

Good god. I just spent 5 minutes trying to find exactly what he had purchased, and it is a friggin' vacuum cleaner! I asked him about it, he assured me it was good, I didn't think much else of it.

It looks almost identical to this one: 15L 1100W 230V Wet and Dry Vacuum Cleaner | Draper Tools (http://www.drapertools.com/product/13779/15L-1100W-230V-Wet-and-Dry-Vacuum-Cleaner)

This isn't even remotely appropriate, is it?
No definitely not.


Can you suggest something that would be?
Any dust extractor that generates a true 1000 cubic feet per minute (CFM) is suitable.
It should also be located or vent outside the shed because they all leak.
Manufacturers CFM ratings are mostly highly optimistic so divide their CFM ratings by 2.


Also, are you to leave it on the entire time you've got the lathe running?
Absolutely and for 10-15 minute after you finish the last bit of dust making.

Read the dust forum before asking any more questions.

[davidjames]

Really appreciate that. I passed on all the info to him yesterday, so I am hoping he will sort out ASAP.

Side note: he's never been able to get the speed control working. Obviously we have 4 manual speed settings adjusted by the pulley, which works fine. But my understanding was that the "blue box" would give smaller, intricate control? We've tried program mode 2/3 for increase/decrease but it doesn't appear to have any effect at all.

When he starts turning some really ugly piece, especially on the opposite side where you can turn up to around 22", I think it'll be particularly useful to be able to turn the speed right down.

[BobL]

Although a dust mask is far from an optimal solution, it may be a good idea for dad to use one until he gets proper dust extraction setup.

The problems with masks as s long term solution is that are they are uncomfortable so people tend to avoid them. Masks also can restrict visibility and more importantly they don't prevent dust getting all over the shed. Once a shed is filled with fine dust it takes days to settle out and then every time you move something or just clean up the settled dust is disturbed and the dust gets lifted into the air again. Masks also don't prevent getting dust on skin and in eyes. Wearing covered clothing doesn't help either because as you move your clothes act like bellows and suck and puff air out of them. The air carries fine dust like a gas so it gets everywhere.

If your clothing gets covered in dust, when you leave the shed you should remove the clothing immediately. If not the dust goes with you and as the human body acts like a chimney dust rises from the clothes and travels upwards into your nose mouth and eyes. This effect was studied in detail by the USAF in the 1950s for nuclear weapons workers.

Around 10% of people appear to be allergic to wood dust and sometimes it only takes one large exposure to trigger the sensitivity so its better to minimise exposure at all times.

[DaveTTC]

Thx for the update

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[davidjames]

Good and bad news.

The good: he got a proper extraction unit and has had it all setup and working for sometime now, so it's much safer.

The bad: he ordered a 4-jaw chuck for the other side (where you can turn larger diameter) and it took 3 months to arrive from Axminster due to them needing to have the part made to cut the thread (or something like that). It arrived, and doesn't fit.

I have had no part in the chuck / ordering so not sure how he measured it but it doesn't seem right.

Does anyone know what the thread is on that side of the BZL lathe? I am struggling to find info. I have tried measuring myself but given that he's already done that and failed, it would be good to just "know" what it should be...

He ordered a 1" 8tpi thread (inside the chuck). But it doesn't fit.

But I measured it 8tip & a fraction under 1" for the thread. Edit: just re-measured. I get it as 25.22mm for the OD of the thread, and the thread as 8 threads per inch...

The start of the thread on the spindle does have a tiny amount of wear but it just doesn't want to go on at all.

:(

[DaveTTC]

Have you checked thread direction. Is it reverse thread?

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

[davidjames]

Have you checked thread direction. Is it reverse thread?

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Yep, it's a LH/reverse thread. This is also the thread he ordered for the chuck (sorry, forgot to note that).

My only other note is that the first spiral of the thread (perhaps spiral-and-a-half) is very slightly rounded from wear (it came with a large face plate for it).

However, I wonder how much of an influence this slightly rounding would have if the pitch/diameter is actually correct. It comes to a very hard stop when trying to thread it on...

[Lappa]

Can you post a picture of the thread on the lathe plus, maybe, a picture of the internal thread on the chuck?

this site has a printable pitch chart so you can match it against the internal and external threads to see if they are the same pitch

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/printable-tools/US-and-Metric-Thread-Sizes.pdf

[davidjames]

Can you post a picture of the thread on the lathe plus, maybe, a picture of the internal thread on the chuck?

this site has a printable pitch chart so you can match it against the internal and external threads to see if they are the same pitch

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/printable-tools/US-and-Metric-Thread-Sizes.pdf

Absolutely. I don't have my "real" cameras with me (as I'm just visiting them for a brief hello, as my mum is recovering from surgery), but will do so shortly.

Here we go...

https://s3.postimg.org/7vo7ybvyb/20161021_101509_338.jpg

https://s21.postimg.org/kdvzuwt5z/20161021_102136_337.jpg

[Paul39]

David,

If the face plate fits nicely on the outboard end of the spindle, send it and the chuck back to Axminster and have them make it the same. If the chuck has an insert, rather than the chuck being bored and threaded, you may want to have an insert for the inboard side also so the chuck can be used on both sides.

https://vicmarc.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=102&virtuemart_category_id=14

It is also possible to have an insert made that will work on both left and right hand threads if the diameter is the same. The 1 1/4 inch insert for my Oneway chuck for the Woodfast came that way. Very Strange looking threads. (https://vicmarc.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=102&virtuemart_category_id=14)

Also keep in mind that the chuck position or register is held by the unthreaded part of the spindle behind the threads and the the flat that the end of the chuck bears against on the spindle. The threads just hold the face plate or chuck on the spindle.

Cleaning the rust off those with steel wool and some light oil will help everything seat correctly.

[davidjames]

David,

If the face plate fits nicely on the outboard end of the spindle, send it and the chuck back to Axminster and have them make it the same. If the chuck has an insert, rather than the chuck being bored and threaded, you may want to have an insert for the inboard side also so the chuck can be used on both sides.

https://vicmarc.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=102&virtuemart_category_id=14

It is also possible to have an insert made that will work on both left and right hand threads if the diameter is the same. The 1 1/4 inch insert for my Oneway chuck for the Woodfast came that way. Very Strange looking threads. (https://vicmarc.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=102&virtuemart_category_id=14)

Also keep in mind that the chuck position or register is held by the unthreaded part of the spindle behind the threads and the the flat that the end of the chuck bears against on the spindle. The threads just hold the face plate or chuck on the spindle.

Cleaning the rust off those with steel wool and some light oil will help everything seat correctly.

Thanks Paul. I really like your idea as it's so simple. I'm gonna give Axminster a call tomorrow and see what they say - I'm sure they'll be happy to help, as they always are.

Will hopefully update you with some photos of a large platter ;)

[davidjames]

So Axminster were very accommodating as expected but unfortunately due to expansion in the workshop creating a backlog, they wouldn't be able to have it done until the new year.

Which is perfectly reasonable and they are going beyond expectations to help us with this. But for my Dad, who waited a while to have it made in the first place, I fear he may make more grumpy noises if I tell him this...

I think for starters, the chuck will have to go back, because it's not usable.

But where to begin with getting a thread to match the face plate of this outbound thread?

Do I start trying to contact independent workshops? With a blank / unthreaded faceplate ? Ask them to cut the thread?

Is that something that would be very time consuming / costly to ask an individual to do?

[davidjames]

Random thought: is it possible the thread is a different form such as BSW? But surely it would still thread on (and damage the thread) rather than just not starting at all & coming to a hard stop?

[Paul39]

You might check with Tony at Lathes (http://lathes.co.uk/) to confirm just what thread is on the lathe.

Wadkin BZL Wood lathe (http://www.lathes.co.uk/wadkin/page2.html)

This talks about the inboard spindle thread:

Does anybody know the Thread size of a Wadkin bzl lathe? : Wood Turning - Lathes - UKworkshop.co.uk (http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/does-anybody-know-the-thread-size-of-a-wadkin-bzl-lathe-t26759.html)

This about the inboard, and outboard:

https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/tools/power-tools/vintage-power-tools/1040577-inboard-spindle-size-on-wadkin-bzl-lathe

Just to further muddy the waters, the lathe might possibly have been made for use in Europe and have metric threads.

You could go to a place that sells large nuts and ask for one that is specified for the inboard right hand thread and see if it will fit on the spindle. If it does, it is likely that the outboard spindle will be what is specified.

Robert Sorby makes chucks, you might check with them to see if they have an insert for the Wadkin:

Chucks (http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/chucks.html/)

I find this about Axminster chucks:

http://knowledge.axminster.co.uk/buying-guides/woodturning-chucks/?_ga=1.147579447.1861782072.1477414966

As your dad has a face plate, he can make things using that until the chuck is sorted. Patience, patience.

It WILL be worth the wait once it is all sorted. My own journey took years and several lathes. I still don't have a
Wadkin or Oliver, and am not likely to. I do have a 20 inch swing short bed Woodfast, which is very close.

http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/05/10/vulture_no_patience_2.jpg

[Paul39]

Further looking finds Oneway adapters for the Stronghold chuck. https://oneway.ca/products-category/adaptors/Stronghold-Adaptors

I have two Stronghold chucks. They are good solid chucks and run true.

Here is Vicmarc's list of adapters:

https://vicmarc.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=102&virtuemart_category_id=14

I realize Axminster has been very cooperative getting you a chuck, but it seems they drill and bore each chuck to fit a spindle.

As the Wadkin seems to have a different thread on the inboard and outboard of the spindle that means two Axminster chucks if you want to work both sides.

A Oneway or Vicmarc chuck uses an adapter so you could use the same chuck on either side with only the expense of the adapter. Changing the adapter is a bit more fiddly than screwing the chuck on to the spindle, but with some planning that can be worked out. Week one we work inboard, week two we work outboard, week three in, week four out, etc.

One of my used lathes came with a Oneway chuck and the Oneway tail center kit. I was pleased with how well everything worked and how nicely built and finished.

When I wanted a big chuck for the Woodfast I consulted with a professional turner at a wood show, who said the best chuck was
Vicmarc, followed by the Oneway. As the Oneway was cheaper and made by our neighbors to the north, I bought a new Oneway Stronghold with big jaws and an 1 1/4 - 8 adapter. Later I bought a like new used one for $100 and bought a 33mm metric adapter for the Hegner.

[davidjames]

You might check with Tony at Lathes (http://lathes.co.uk/) to confirm just what thread is on the lathe.

Wadkin BZL Wood lathe (http://www.lathes.co.uk/wadkin/page2.html)

This talks about the inboard spindle thread:

Does anybody know the Thread size of a Wadkin bzl lathe? : Wood Turning - Lathes - UKworkshop.co.uk (http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/does-anybody-know-the-thread-size-of-a-wadkin-bzl-lathe-t26759.html)

This about the inboard, and outboard:

https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/tools/power-tools/vintage-power-tools/1040577-inboard-spindle-size-on-wadkin-bzl-lathe

Just to further muddy the waters, the lathe might possibly have been made for use in Europe and have metric threads.

You could go to a place that sells large nuts and ask for one that is specified for the inboard right hand thread and see if it will fit on the spindle. If it does, it is likely that the outboard spindle will be what is specified.

Robert Sorby makes chucks, you might check with them to see if they have an insert for the Wadkin:

Chucks (http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/chucks.html/)

I find this about Axminster chucks:

http://knowledge.axminster.co.uk/buying-guides/woodturning-chucks/?_ga=1.147579447.1861782072.1477414966

As your dad has a face plate, he can make things using that until the chuck is sorted. Patience, patience.

It WILL be worth the wait once it is all sorted. My own journey took years and several lathes. I still don't have a
Wadkin or Oliver, and am not likely to. I do have a 20 inch swing short bed Woodfast, which is very close.

http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/05/10/vulture_no_patience_2.jpg

Thanks for your insight and research. I hadn't managed to find that inbound/outbound discussion on the Canadian forum - which seems to point to it being 1" x 8 as we'd measured. Or at least THAT one is. I hadn't found any info about exporting, but I always assumed with the Wadkin Bursgreen being made in Leicester it was purely used within the UK - so the threads would be the same. Maybe there are some differences out there though...

I have a lot of patience and my Dad is generally a patient person. But he has had quite a few things 'going on' lately, so he doesn't seem to be able to process this too well and is blowing it up to more than it is (simply getting a thread and setup that works). It's just a thread - not 'rocket science'. He keeps mentioning removing the spindle completely, or even buying an entirely new lathe - yet both are pretty ridiculous and far more time consuming (and if I could say, a little hurtful, given that this machine is a gift...)

I'm going to look into the Robert Sorby chucks, thanks for the note. I think your idea of finding multiple nuts is nice and quick/easy too.

[davidjames]

Further looking finds Oneway adapters for the Stronghold chuck. https://oneway.ca/products-category/adaptors/Stronghold-Adaptors

I have two Stronghold chucks. They are good solid chucks and run true.

Here is Vicmarc's list of adapters:

https://vicmarc.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=102&virtuemart_category_id=14

I realize Axminster has been very cooperative getting you a chuck, but it seems they drill and bore each chuck to fit a spindle.

As the Wadkin seems to have a different thread on the inboard and outboard of the spindle that means two Axminster chucks if you want to work both sides.

A Oneway or Vicmarc chuck uses an adapter so you could use the same chuck on either side with only the expense of the adapter. Changing the adapter is a bit more fiddly than screwing the chuck on to the spindle, but with some planning that can be worked out. Week one we work inboard, week two we work outboard, week three in, week four out, etc.

One of my used lathes came with a Oneway chuck and the Oneway tail center kit. I was pleased with how well everything worked and how nicely built and finished.

When I wanted a big chuck for the Woodfast I consulted with a professional turner at a wood show, who said the best chuck was
Vicmarc, followed by the Oneway. As the Oneway was cheaper and made by our neighbors to the north, I bought a new Oneway Stronghold with big jaws and an 1 1/4 - 8 adapter. Later I bought a like new used one for $100 and bought a 33mm metric adapter for the Hegner.

Yep, it seems the Chuck will have to go back as it's bored out specifically for that thread, so no use it being here (and returning for a refund makes sense).

Making the inbound and outbound threads the same makes perfect sense to me and is exactly what I would have done if I were setting it up. But I pretty much left it to my Dad to explore himself and make his own once he had it. I'll discuss this as a further option. The thing is he does have a chuck for the inbound side with quite a few accessories to fit it, so it may not appeal to him to start again on it, but it's another option at least.

[davidjames]

As your dad has a face plate, he can make things using that until the chuck is sorted. Patience, patience.


He basically just wants to try something larger, like a platter. I think he can get 18-20" on the outbound without any modification. He has that large faceplate but I think in his mind (and I haven't done any turning so I don't know), he can't do much with just a faceplate?

He seems to think he can turn ONE size (say, underneath the bowl), where he'd need to make a dovetail foot to then fit onto this mysterious chuck ?

Is there a way to ONLY use a faceplate for the entire job on something this large?

I have found this - which shows gluing a sacrificial board to the one size "no chuck bowl": No Chuck Bowl (http://bobhamswwing.com/Articles/No%20Chuck%20Bowl/No%20Chuck%20Bowl.htm)

Could this be applied to a 18" platter ? Or is there another way?

Or possibly something like this... could something like this be suitable for holding the "foot" size of a bowl? Or would it be too weak? I just feel like there has to be some jig type solution you can make yourself... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2y8omkU3Ug

Another random thought.... could this back plate on the chuck be taken off, counter sunk on the other side, and then bolted onto the faceplate? http://static.axminster.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1800x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/5/0/502666_inset8_xl.jpg

[Paul39]

Big bowl with faceplate:

A Very Big Bowl | Allan Shope Architect (http://www.shopearchitect.com/blog/a-very-big-bowl)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmlE4C1HRGs

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/13/4f/d7/134fd77af79b798e86f05a95b4c082a6.jpg

ERROR: The requested URL could not be retrieved (http://chronicle.augusta.com/sites/default/files/editorial/images/spotted/53/535514.jpg)

Big turnings screwed to a faceplate is the preferred method, as that holds much better than being gripped in a chuck. All the big ones above are done with one mounting. Either there is enough timber left at the bottom to cut off when finishing, or in the last one, Ed Moulthrop drills out the screw holes and drives in a dowel then finishes the bottom.

For big flat pieces some folks glue a mounting block with brown grocery bag paper between, then use a chisel to break the block off. Others glue directly then chisel and sand the bottom.

Older turning books have many techniques that do not involve chucks. The 1970ish version of this is full of information:

https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-Woodturner-Peter-Child/dp/1861080751

As your father has a chuck for the inboard, getting an Axminster chuck to fit the outboard solves the problem. As you have started with them, getting the chuck from them may be the least messy. Carefully measuring the outboard spindle in accordance with the drawing on their chuck page is necessary. If you or your father are not confident about measuring, you might find what we call a machinist - I think you folks call them an engineer - to do the measuring.

[davidjames]

Big bowl with faceplate:

A Very Big Bowl | Allan Shope Architect (http://www.shopearchitect.com/blog/a-very-big-bowl)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmlE4C1HRGs

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/13/4f/d7/134fd77af79b798e86f05a95b4c082a6.jpg

ERROR: The requested URL could not be retrieved (http://chronicle.augusta.com/sites/default/files/editorial/images/spotted/53/535514.jpg)

Big turnings screwed to a faceplate is the preferred method, as that holds much better than being gripped in a chuck. All the big ones above are done with one mounting. Either there is enough timber left at the bottom to cut off when finishing, or in the last one, Ed Moulthrop drills out the screw holes and drives in a dowel then finishes the bottom.

For big flat pieces some folks glue a mounting block with brown grocery bag paper between, then use a chisel to break the block off. Others glue directly then chisel and sand the bottom.

Older turning books have many techniques that do not involve chucks. The 1970ish version of this is full of information:

https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-Woodturner-Peter-Child/dp/1861080751

As your father has a chuck for the inboard, getting an Axminster chuck to fit the outboard solves the problem. As you have started with them, getting the chuck from them may be the least messy. Carefully measuring the outboard spindle in accordance with the drawing on their chuck page is necessary. If you or your father are not confident about measuring, you might find what we call a machinist - I think you folks call them an engineer - to do the measuring.

Wow, that is amazing, thank you Paul. I agree re: simplicity and keeping it with Axminster, but it's still useful to have the other options for when I discuss it with him in a couple of days.

RE: large turnings screwed to a faceplate... is that secure enough without a tailstock? Assuming you cut it reasonably round on a bandsaw (or similar), and use enough screws.

If so, that is amazing, to think he could actually just start using it today.

[Paul39]

Wow, that is amazing, thank you Paul. I agree re: simplicity and keeping it with Axminster, but it's still useful to have the other options for when I discuss it with him in a couple of days.

RE: large turnings screwed to a faceplate... is that secure enough without a tailstock? Assuming you cut it reasonably round on a bandsaw (or similar), and use enough screws.

If so, that is amazing, to think he could actually just start using it today.

All those above were turned start to finish with one fixing without a tailstock.

BUT!!

Those were made by experienced people. A 16 - 18 inch X 2 inch table top or plate with lots of #10 screws is probably within your father's ability. It would be good for him to have some tuition by an experienced turner before trying heavier pieces.

When mounting my chain sawed blanks, split logs with the corners cut off, I mount with 2 screws, spin by hand several times, and if it stops in the same place remount so it is more balanced, putting screws in all the holes. I then turn on the lathe at the slowest speed standing away from the piece with my hand on the stop switch. If it runs OK we proceed.

A few thoughts over lunch: Assuming the faceplate fits snugly on the outboard spindle, the best solution is to have it and the chuck sent to Axminster to have the chuck drilled and threaded. Next would be send them both and let them measure the faceplate and return it so they will have the specifications to drill the chuck in due course.

Another solution would be to take the chuck and face plate to a local machine shop / engineers shop and have it done. That will be far more expensive than Axminster doing it as the local shop would have to start from scratch, where A. is set up to do that all day long.

The edition of the Peter Child book has the photo shown here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0713516682/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=

The revised edition by his son does not have the "obsolete" techniques.

Peter's writing style made me chuckle many times, as an old geezer, I appreciate his wit.

Edit, Proserpine Big Bow, on a faceplate start to finish:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/attachments/f6/29133d1316744853-really-stupid-question-turning-big-stuff-ready_for_turning__2_.jpg

And:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/38/07/00/3807004eda7c739caa2742cc40fbde0a.jpg

[davidjames]

All those above were turned start to finish with one fixing without a tailstock.

BUT!!

Those were made by experienced people. A 16 - 18 inch X 2 inch table top or plate with lots of #10 screws is probably within your father's ability. It would be good for him to have some tuition by an experienced turner before trying heavier pieces.

When mounting my chain sawed blanks, split logs with the corners cut off, I mount with 2 screws, spin by hand several times, and if it stops in the same place remount so it is more balanced, putting screws in all the holes. I then turn on the lathe at the slowest speed standing away from the piece with my hand on the stop switch. If it runs OK we proceed.

A few thoughts over lunch: Assuming the faceplate fits snugly on the outboard spindle, the best solution is to have it and the chuck sent to Axminster to have the chuck drilled and threaded. Next would be send them both and let them measure the faceplate and return it so they will have the specifications to drill the chuck in due course.

Another solution would be to take the chuck and face plate to a local machine shop / engineers shop and have it done. That will be far more expensive than Axminster doing it as the local shop would have to start from scratch, where A. is set up to do that all day long.

The edition of the Peter Child book has the photo shown here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0713516682/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=

The revised edition by his son does not have the "obsolete" techniques.

Peter's writing style made me chuckle many times, as an old geezer, I appreciate his wit.

Edit, Proserpine Big Bow, on a faceplate start to finish:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/attachments/f6/29133d1316744853-really-stupid-question-turning-big-stuff-ready_for_turning__2_.jpg

And:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/38/07/00/3807004eda7c739caa2742cc40fbde0a.jpg

Fascinating, thank you again Paul! I'm waiting to hear back from a local shop I found for him to see if they could do the threading work, just so I can lay out all his choices.

The chuck that he does have will have to go back, as it's already threaded, and I don't think that part of the chuck is removable. But yes, I agree with what you say in principle, about sending the original faceplate to Axminster so they can see themselves.

I just watched this short video, which is MUCH larger than he'd attempt but does show the principle of it. She just mounts it briefly with the faceplate to make a flat side, then reverses it and does all the work from the one side, with the one faceplate.

I think he has plenty of options but to be honest, I think he can start now with the right guidance, and wait for this chuck until next year (or have it done locally).

Thanks again for your help, sincerely appreciated!

[woodPixel]

Rather than the expense of guessing, do you have a local nuts and bolts engineering outlet? Take whatever you have that fits the lathe and get them to find the right bolt that fits it.

If you don't have an existing faceplate, get them to sell/give/loan you a few nuts that are close. Take them home and test them. Return them with some beers as thank you.

Alternatively, You can make a rubbing of the thread with a piece of paper and pencil. Wrap the paper around tightly and make a negative with the pencil. The engineering shop should be able to match it and give you a sample nut.

This will let you know which chuck to order.

[davidjames]

Rather than the expense of guessing, do you have a local nuts and bolts engineering outlet? Take whatever you have that fits the lathe and get them to find the right bolt that fits it.

If you don't have an existing faceplate, get them to sell/give/loan you a few nuts that are close. Take them home and test them. Return them with some beers as thank you.

Alternatively, You can make a rubbing of the thread with a piece of paper and pencil. Wrap the paper around tightly and make a negative with the pencil. The engineering shop should be able to match it and give you a sample nut.

This will let you know which chuck to order.

The actual thread is still a bit of a mystery to be honest. I measured it as well as I also made it 1" x 8tip LHT, which is also what was linked in a Canadian woodturning forum back on page 4 of this thread. But that's what he ordered and it didn't fit, so I don't know, I feel like it needs an expert. Sending the original faceplate is what we'll likely do.

I don't know about an engineering outlet but I can look into it for him. Are they likely to stock all sorts of LH threads from times gone by?

Of course, I'll update when the thread IS known...

[themage21]

Just putting it out there, a thread gauge costs around AU$10 on ebay (probably as much in pounds pretty soon) and would probably tell you everything you need to know about the pitch. It's also a very handy tool (even if it's not used often) to have around the shed.

I should probably say that as has been mentioned before, a thread gauge is only as good as the profiles it's made for. It's possible that the thread on the lathe is not a 60º thread. If it's whitworth and is a 55º thread, then it could cause the problem that you're talking about. Measures fine, but the UNC thread and the BSW start trying to eat each other once some serious engagement occurs

[chucky]

You mentioned that your thread is 1'' x 8tpi (Whit) there are 2 different threads in this size being a difference in the thread angle. Both will measure 8tpi with a thread gauge. We had a the same problem between 2 different lathes Nova Mercury and Vl100 Vicmarc,.If I can recall the Nova face plate will screw onto both lathes bit not the other way . It would start for a thread or so then, would not screw any more. I tested both face plates with a 1 '' whit. tap and the the results were the same.

[davidjames]

Just putting it out there, a thread gauge costs around AU$10 on ebay (probably as much in pounds pretty soon) and would probably tell you everything you need to know about the pitch. It's also a very handy tool (even if it's not used often) to have around the shed.

I should probably say that as has been mentioned before, a thread gauge is only as good as the profiles it's made for. It's possible that the thread on the lathe is not a 60º thread. If it's whitworth and is a 55º thread, then it could cause the problem that you're talking about. Measures fine, but the UNC thread and the BSW start trying to eat each other once some serious engagement occurs


You mentioned that your thread is 1'' x 8tpi (Whit) there are 2 different threads in this size being a difference in the thread angle. Both will measure 8tpi with a thread gauge. We had a the same problem between 2 different lathes Nova Mercury and Vl100 Vicmarc,.If I can recall the Nova face plate will screw onto both lathes bit not the other way . It would start for a thread or so then, would not screw any more. I tested both face plates with a 1 '' whit. tap and the the results were the same.

Well, I wondered whether the thread may be a BSW thread but found no reference for this. Indeed, that Canadian forum discussion brought it up but it seemed to suggest it was NOT a BSW. Yet… it doesn’t seem to be metric on ours. I re-measured several times and it came out as 1” and 8TPI everytime, so it is a bit confusing – this is why we want an expert to look at the faceplate thread and see what they make of it. Yet you’d think if the difference is 60 degrees vs 55 degrees it would still “bite” on and start turning, but eat away at it. With this, it just won’t start at all.

We do actually have a thread gauge, as I’ve done a tiny bit of machining myself in the past.

Unfortunately I’ve had no luck with the workshops I’ve contacted. I think the “professional” ones are all on an industrial scale, so probably aren’t interested. I’ve tried signing up to a engineering forum in the UK – hopefully that’ll bring some results.

[davidjames]

Asking around an engineering forum, they seem to think given the age and location a BSW thread seems probable. Perhaps that Canadian one was metric because it was in Canada?

To test this, I may buy a set of 1x8LH taps and run it through some scrap aluminium.

Reading into the axminster thread more, it's definitely a 60 degree metric thread. Which is also shallower than the BSW thread, which would explain the hard stop it came to when trying to mate.

The chap on the engineering forum seems to think we could run a set of taps through the metric axminster thread without needing to remove much material at all, and could create a BSW thread.

Will let you know how it goes...

[davidjames]

Just a short update... after extensive research from you guys and another friendly forum, including a guy who actually owned and used the same lathe, we managed to work out it was the BSW thread and Axminster had cut an UNC thread. So we bought a tap and it just needed to be ran through once. Instead, my dad took it and gave it to some chap at work who got rather confused and he didn't get it back for another month... But, he now has it back, and it works fine.

Note to all - the threads on the BZL are indeed BSW. But there seems to be some variation on the spindles, so always best to check what yours actually is in terms of diameter and pitch.

[DaveTTC]

Thanks for the update good to hear all sorted

DaveTTC

Turning Wood into Art

[Chrism3]

Looking at those photos of your Dad suggests to me that the lathe needs to be raised higher.

[davidjames]

Looking at those photos of your Dad suggests to me that the lathe needs to be raised higher.
Yes, someone mentioned this on the metal working forum I went to. Apparently the center axis should be level with your elbow, more or less.
My dad is due to have a complete tear down of his “workshop” (garage). 95% of the stuff in there is rubbish and there is zero organization. It’s so dangerous! He’s going to do this when that ‘big clear up’ happens.

[Paul39]

Looking at those photos of your Dad suggests to me that the lathe needs to be raised higher.

I find as a mostly bowl turner that it is more comfortable to have the spindle higher than elbow hight. Easier to see into the bowl when hollowing, and not much difference when doing the outside.

When it is time to set up the lathe, block up the lathe temporarily to find what is comfortable, then make the the blocking solid. I have my Woodfast screwed to 6 X 6 inch timbers plus another 2 inch slab. This also stabilizes it front to back because it is tall and thin.

There is enough weight in the lathe and cabinet to keep it stable. When I first brought it home in pieces, I put it together in the yard and put a hunk of out of balance stump on it. At slow speed it gently rocked back and forth until I had cut off enough to make it balance.

I expect your dad's lathe will do even better. No substitute for several hundred pounds of cast iron.