Wadkin Wood Lathes

[Vann]

Over on the Canadian forum, a few of our well known Aussie iron magnets confessed to feeding their addiction, following a tip-off of the whereabouts of 5 (yes that's FIVE) Wadkin RS woodlathes. They bought all five :o.

So Camoz and ClearOut picked them all up. LS Barker and ClearOut each get an 8" RS, Raymond gets the 10" RS, Camoz has a 6" and an 8" RS. Lucky sods :q.

Over here (NZ) the pickings aren't quite as good, but there's no shortage of Wadkin woodlathes - only ours are smaller.

This RT was listed in Palmerston North last month, and sold ($NZ405.50) to a guy in Balclutha (that'll cost him, to get that home!)

374945 374942 RT 357 - Test No.36376 - of 1950

Then last Friday two were listed in Te Awamutu

374943 374944 RTA 339 - Test No.36021 - also from 1950

Sold to a guy in Hamilton ($NZ250), and

374946 374947 RTA 380 - Test No.41145 - made 1951

Sold to me ($NZ250) :D (that smile will go when SWMBO finds out - I'm under strict instructions to NOT buy anymore big tools :C).

And just for a clearer picture, here's one a guy did up in England a year or two ago.

374948 374949 RTA 405 - Test No. 40404 - also of 1951

Cheers, Vann.

[Pat]

Vann, it is not a big tool, but an investment in your future happiness . . .

[Vann]

Vann, it is not a big tool, but an investment in your future happiness . . .I'm not sure happiness is the first emotion coming my way. I'm expecting a fair helping of grief first :C :;

Cheers, Vann :).

[elanjacobs]

It's easier to get forgiveness than permission :wink:

[L.S.Barker1970]

Nice solid little lathe Vann
A gent I knew had one with a vfd built in, I was impressed how smooth it ran
Like Elan said pull the trigger and seek forgiveness later !!

Melbourne Matty

[DSEL74]

I met a fellow recently that has a lovely big Wadkin lathe in the corner of his shed partially restored I noticed the outboard turning stand first and made a comment which lead to me being shown the lathe. I'm envious of anyone owning one.

There are more women than men and as we age the ratio gets higher so say the odds are in our favour. The odds on finding good old iron is not in as good. Not sure how often I can keep reminding my missus this with each new acquisition before she puts it to the test lol.

[Vann]

It's easier to get forgiveness than permission

Like Elan said pull the trigger and seek forgiveness later !!Yup, looks like I'll have to go down that road - the seller won't/can't crate it, so I'll have to take two days off work to drive up to collect it (no chance of sneaking it off a carrier's truck, into the garage while SWMBO is out at work http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/anoyd.gif ).

Anyway, it's paid for now.

Cheers, Vann http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/smile.gif.

[camoz]

Vann,

Well done on the purchase, and good luck with SWMBO:D, fortunately for me, turning is something my wife would like to get into, so this purchase I got away with.

Interesting to see so many RT's come up in a short period of time, going off the numbers I've seen, I have always thought there were probably not a lot of these made.

I think it's a good buy, there is a lot of lathe there for what you paid.

What's your plans with it (full strip down or just a cleanup), from the photo it looks like it won't need much to get it up and running?

cheers,

Camo

[clear out]

These little lathes look pretty neat.
I must admit they have completely slipped under my radar in the past.
I was not at all aware of them until a post recently on the Canadian Forum.
Ive never seen a mention in any of the catalogues I have or have looked at.
Ive been into Wadkin since the 70s and was doing a fair bit of turning thru the 80s.
I doubt there's many in Oz.
Do they have a common headstock thread with their brethren?
Good luck with the pick up and the boss.
H.

[Vann]

Looks like I’ll have to take two days off work to drive up and collect my Wadkin RTA, as the school selling it can't/won't load it (not even onto a pallet), nor arrange transport.

I found this on the Canadian forum:
The weight at 560 pounds.
Height of center is 6 1/4"
Capacity between centers is 31"
Length of the bed is 60"
Diameter that can be turned over hand rest and travelling slide rest is 9"
Height from floor to centers is 42".
Two speed adjusted by a hand operated change pole switch makes the speed changes.
Motor is rated at 1 hp and is totally enclosed

However, plans are coming together. We stayed with friends at the beach Friday & yesterday. I got around fessing up to SWMBO and there's been no explosion (yet :;). One friend offerred to loan me his van - so I can get the whole thing back in one go. I didn’t think I could get the whole 260kg in my Toyota Corolla - and safely drive 500km back to Wellington, so I was planning to box up the bed and drop it at a local trucking firm for shipping home (but that won't be necessary now). And the boss can let me have off the 2 days I’ll need.

I didn’t know anything about Wadkin wood lathes before I bid on the RTA. I’m not a turner, and in my life I’ve probably turned ~ 4 tool handles, on a lathe attachment powered by the Makita power drill.

375340 My current, high quality - made in Taiwan - wood lathe :roll:.
375341 I did turn this handle for my Dawn post drill with that set-up.

Looking at the Wadkin RS lathes the Aussie boys have bought, I can see it’s a vastly superior machine to my somewhat lightweight RTA. Then again, I probably wouldn’t have dared to buy anything as big and heavy as an RS - so my RTA is the correct sized machine for the moment (and apparently it does share the same tailstock and tool-rest support as the RS :q).

As for my plans once it's home? The seller says it's in good working order. So I intend to set it up, clean it up, get it running - and see if I can interest MY wife in woodturning... :no:.

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

There are more women than men and as we age the ratio gets higher so say the odds are in our favour. The odds on finding good old iron is not in as good. Not sure how often I can keep reminding my missus this with each new acquisition before she puts it to the test lol.SWMBO is my second wife - and this is my second Wadkin :;.

Cheers, Vann :).

[L.S.Barker1970]

These little lathes look pretty neat.
I must admit they have completely slipped under my radar in the past.
I was not at all aware of them until a post recently on the Canadian Forum.
Ive never seen a mention in any of the catalogues I have or have looked at.
Ive been into Wadkin since the 70s and was doing a fair bit of turning thru the 80s.
I doubt there's many in Oz.
Do they have a common headstock thread with their brethren?
Good luck with the pick up and the boss.
H.

Hi Henry,

I have seen a few down under but they are not common, even less common are the information leaflets or catalog cuts of them.
Funny thing about putting these pic's up is that if any one feels the need to spread then all over the internet, I'll know exactly where they came from.
Not sure on the head stock threads but the tail stock sure looks like a dead ringer for a 6 inch RS ?!
Vann and Henry, please enjoy the catalog cuts !

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355001/wadkin%20RT341_zpswha6otev.jpg
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355001/wadkin%20RT342_zpss786k9zh.jpg
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355001/wadkin%20RT343_zpsfsyy9r3r.jpg
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355001/wadkin%20RT344_zpsuq5hdvyf.jpg
Melbourne Matty.

[Vann]

Wow Matty ! Thanks for the catalogue cuts. Information on the RT is hard to find - the Wadkin cattledogs I've found online don't even acknowledge the existence of the RT wood lathe.
And it clarifies for me that the RTA is just an AC powered version of the RT - just as my PKA is a PK with an AC motor. I was skeptical of this at first, as the PK had dropped the "A" by 1950, whereas the four RT in this thread are all 1950 or 1951 machines, but three are classified as RTA.

As I've said before, I'm no turner, but I was surprised by the speeds of this machine - 1500rpm and 3000rpm. I was expecting lower.


Not sure on the head stock threads but the tail stock sure looks like a dead ringer for a 6 inch RS ?!
Vann and Henry, please enjoy the catalog cuts !I'm sure I read somewhere that the RT uses the same tailstock and toolrest bracket as the RS (the 6" RS I presume). I'll have to try to find the posts again. I'm also trying to find what thread the headstock uses for the faceplate, etc.

I'm looking forward to picking up my lathe in a fortnight, and experimenting with a bit of turning.

Cheers, Vann.

[L.S.Barker1970]

I'll be looking forward to seeing more of your new acquisition Vann
Well done, glad you took the plunge !!

Melbourne Matty

[Vann]

Following Matty's posting of the Wadkin leaflet below...

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355001/wadkin%20RT341_zpswha6otev.jpg
I found this picture of an early RTA recently up for sale in Scunthorpe, UK.

375769 375770 RTA 148, test 5029 (pre-1937).

Note the earlier type of headstock, and the packer under the tailstock (like an 8" RS).

Cheers, Vann.

[camoz]

and the packer under the tailstock (like an 8" RS).

Cheers, Vann.

Vann,

I don't think this is a packer, this is for tapering. The RS6 I have has this setup, but with a square shaft to take a handle to adjust the offset. If you look closely you can see a pin below the hand wheel, this is the locating pin for the home position.

Cheers,

Camo

[L.S.Barker1970]

Vann,

I don't think this is a packer, this is for tapering. The RS6 I have has this setup, but with a square shaft to take a handle to adjust the offset. If you look closely you can see a pin below the hand wheel, this is the locating pin for the home position.

Cheers,

Camo

Very true Cam, as seen in this pic below, a very handy feature for off-set turning, very useful for patternmakers perhaps.


http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355001/wadkin%20RT345_zps7yjfck30.jpg

Melbourne Matty

[Vann]

Over on the Canadian forum, a few of our well known Aussie iron magnets confessed to feeding their addiction, following a tip-off of the whereabouts of 5 (yes that's FIVE) Wadkin RS woodlathes. They bought all five :o.Well, not to be outdone, I bought an RS wood lathe machine tag. RS 133, test 3197 :q.

376171

Just the tag unfortunately :C:B. Actually I bought it last year - I'm not really sure why? :B

Cheers, Vann :D.

[Christos]

......Just the tag unfortunately :C:B. Actually I bought it last year - I'm not really sure why?......


The start of the collection. :brava

[Vann]

The start of the collection. :bravaWell... technically... it's not the start :B. My first Wadkin tag is the one on my Wadkin PK dimension saw. The second tag is off the munted BCK radial arm saw I bought for parts. This is my third Wadkin tag. And my forth is on my RTA wood lathe which arrived home yesterday.

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

I left home at 11.30pm Thursday evening and drove through the night until, after 5 hours, I had to stop at the roadside for a sleep. Another two hours yesterday morning had me at Te Awamutu College to pick up the woodlathe. 487km according to the trip-meter.

It was still exactly where the sellers photographs were taken.

376315 In the woodwork room.

I removed the tailstock. and the tool rest holder. Then unbolted the headstock - it took a bit of persuading to get it to seperate. I was just able to lift the headstock (complete with intergral motor and switchgear) to the ground - luckily the body of this unit is aluminium. Then I unbolted the legs and lowered the bed to the floor, first one end, then the other.

I was able to lift each component, except the bed, which was rolled down two 4x2s, on pipes, into the van.

376316 Half-way through loading into the van.

The woodwork instructor told me they sold their two Wadkin lathes (even though they were working fine), for modern lathes – because they wanted to standardise the tooling !! Lucky for me! And they didn’t care what price they got for them as the revenue wasn’t coming back to the technical department – hence the $100 starting price and $250 buy now on both lathes.

Once everything was loaded he was kind enough to give me a turning lesson (after I told him I had virtually no experience with woodlathes).

376317 The 3 lathes they now use (and my piece between centres)

Then it was drive back to Wellington. 7 hours driving; 8 hours all up (including breaks), and straight to bed.

Cheers, Vann.

[L.S.Barker1970]

Well done Vann !!
I see it all fitted in your van very neatly.
Did he throw in any turning chisles or are you on the hunt for some now ?

Melbourne Matty.

[Vann]

Did he throw in any turning chisles or are you on the hunt for some now ?I have three turning chisels of unknown parentage. I'll be keeping an eye out for some more.

I don't intend to get into bowl making (at present). I want to make some simple handles for tools, and some patterns for missing parts - and there's a banister required in the house (though I'm not sure if we want turned posts for that), so my range of turning chisels may not need to be extensive. However my daughter wants to try making wooden eggcups.

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

This morning I unloaded the van (and returned it to it's owner).

376325

I cleaned off any paint or crud from machined surfaces and oiled them before bolting parts together.

376326 Re-attaching the legs (I've misplaced one bolt :~).

376328 Turned back up the right way.

376327 Underside of the headstock.

376329 Motor tag - no specific maker mentioned - looks like the motor is made by Wadkin !

376330 Nearly all back together again.

It just needs the power cord to be attached. There was no electrical connection box on the rear of the headstock - just conduit wires inside a green hose, attached to the machine by a PVC ebow. I'll have to see if a can get some better fittings, but hope to have it running tomorrow - even with a temporary connection if necessary.

376333 I believe it should have a fitting like this...

376334 ...but all I have is this.

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

I wired the lathe up with a temporary connection, and with much trepidation, switched the 'On' button.

Nothing.
Okay, move the speed lever from 'Off', to 'Low Speed', and try the 'On' button again. Success :2tsup: well, kinda. It runs backwards :doh:. It's a good thing I didn't have a face plate on, as it was the screw plate half unwound on start-up.

Hit the 'Off' button. Nothing :C. Try again. Nothing :~. Switch it off at the wall.

Turn it back on again. Nothing. Push the 'On' button. Starts. So at least the contactor drops out when the power is off - that's good. Hit the 'Off' button again. Nothing (sigh). Switch it off at the wall.

I know that all I have to do to get it to run the right way, is to change two wires. I'll change the Red and Blue wires so that it 's still wired Red - Yellow - Blue, just in the opposite direction. But while I have the switch out I'll need to check out the 'Off' function - and I just didn't have time for that today.

All in all, a satisfying result - even though it still needs some work.

And I think the grease nipples on the headstock might benefit from a squeeze of grease (I'd better finish off cleaning up the grease gun I bought on Trademe several months ago).

Cheers, Vann.

[jgforsberg]

I,v offten wondered if the American Oliver 159 wasn't a knock off of this lathe . There's enough similarities to constitute similar design . And all of my research of Wadkin machines I have never come across a line belt lathe even though most English manufacturers made them .

I would just like to add a little conjecture about the third letter designation. It's my understanding that the third letter only belongs to Motor driven machines and not Linebelt machines . Very few classic machines existed in Wadkin's lineup that were strictly motor drive developed. The CC,RT ,RS,PK, I would include the LQ but I believe that was a line belt machine originally as was the pattern Miller. But the pin router development could be spurred by the phase shifter's . Because the motor was being developed by Wadkin and BTH the designation I believe regards that . It's been unclear whether the PJ had an AC motor or DC and certainly some if not all of John McDougall's early examples were DC motor driven . It's also fun to see the parts mixing like brake in the square shape motor development of the Wadkin /BTH Direct drive motor that clearly dominated the range . Enjoying the thread Vann

[Vann]

I would just like to add a little conjecture about the third letter designation. It's my understanding that the third letter only belongs to Motor driven machines and not Linebelt machines.

...it clarifies for me that the RTA is just an AC powered version of the RT - just as my PKA is a PK with an AC motor. I was skeptical of this at first, as the PK had dropped the "A" by 1950, whereas the four RT in this thread are all 1950 or 1951 machines, but three are classified as RTA.
I'm now doubting my conclusion that an RTA is just an AC powered RT. Apart from the tailstock and toolpost holder, which bear pattern numbers starting with "RS" (they're common with the 6" RS lathe) all the other pattern numbers start with "RTA" (not "RT") - where as my PKA (AC powered PK) has pattern numbers starting with "PK" (not "PKA"). According to Matty's cattledog cuts there was a DC powered RT/RTA.

So now I'm confused. This doesn't dispute what you wrote Mr Forsberg, I'm just trying to make sense of the third letter use, and work out the difference (if any) between an RT and an RTA.

Cheers, Vann.

[jgforsberg]

It appears the RT is older than the RS but the letters don't suggest that . The first letter is the family of machines the second letter is the generation or model designation in alphabetical order of development in that family . At least from the drawing room perspective of development . planers were originally in the K family and later became the R Family Sometime in the early 40s . In the beginning it appears that multiple models were being developed simultaneously and it's my asertation that castings would've been development Based on the winning development In the engineering works . It's clear that model number castings appear on the majority of family designated machines and this was a common practice in Wadkin development Of a particular range . All RTA on the casting tell me is that the A C drive model RT was the first to make it out of the pattern shop and therefore became the initial castings . You Really have to look at the subtle changes like the bed casting letters or in the case of the PK the fences I've seen both PK and PJ With the PJ appearing first .

[Vann]

All RTA on the casting tell me is that the A C drive model RT was the first to make it out of the pattern shop and therefore became the initial castings.That sounds to be a plausible explanation.

Just out of interest, here are pikkies of the pattern numbers in various places on the lathe:

376446 'RTA 38' on the rotary switch panel, and 'RTA 2x' on the selector handle.

376447 'RTA 42' upside down on the inboard motor mounting plate.

376448 'RTA 34' inside the electrical box of the main headstock casting.

376449 'RTA 37' inside the electrical box lid.

All the above castings (with the probable exception of the selector handle) are unique to the AC version of the RT woodlathe. However 'RTA' also features on the leg castings

376450 'RTA 43' inside each leg casting.

And to prove myself wrong, the tailstock is NOT an RS casting, but an RTA casting

376451 'RTA 36' on the back of the tailstock.

These last two support your theory IMHO.


It appears the RT is older than the RS but the letters don't suggest that.I'd guessed that the RTA was a much newer than the RS (mostly due to the direct drive instead of belts), however finding RTA 148 (see post ♯15) with a test number so low as to be late 1920s or early 1930s suggests it is an old design. When did the RS come out?

Cheers, Vann.

[L.S.Barker1970]

And all of my research of Wadkin machines I have never come across a line belt lathe even though most English manufacturers made them .

Enjoying the thread Vann

What, like this one Jack ?
Glad your here buddy, its been a while between drinks/or posts...
Still on the red cap ? your weather should be warming up for it pretty soon.


http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355001/wadkin%20KH346_zpspl78kb8q.jpg
Melbourne Matty.

[jgforsberg]

What, like this one Jack ?
Glad your here buddy, its been a while between drinks/or posts...
Still on the red cap ? your weather should be warming up for it pretty soon.


http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355001/wadkin%20KH346_zpspl78kb8q.jpg
Melbourne Matty.
OK that's awesome . Look at those legs . Do we have a list of the K range . It's my understanding that this was developed for the aircraft industry . How old is that cut Matty . By the way your gong go love that RS henny found for all you . Vann brought up some unresolved issues with the third letter designation on the course we seem to just regurgitate same information over and over of course there are listings of the letters in the catalogues . But often wondered if some of the third letter designations didn't indicate other factories such as I mentioned BTH . It clearly states in the RT catalogue their special relationship with a well-known manufacture of course we know that to be BTH

[L.S.Barker1970]

Jack, its from the 1927 catalog
Missing some pages so I don't have the full line up, as far as I can work out its just the KH 6 and 8 inch, the RS is in there too, that was the first of the electric motor driven lathes.

Melbourne Matty

[Vann]

Vann brought up some unresolved issues with the third letter designation on the course we seem to just regurgitate same information over and over...Err... yeah. Sorry about that. But you have to educate the newcomers like me.

I've struck the same thing in the hand tool sub-forums where every other week a newbie will ask about buying a new Stanley plane...


...But often wondered if some of the third letter designations didn't indicate other factories such as I mentioned BTH . It clearly states in the RT catalogue their special relationship with a well-known manufacture of course we know that to be BTHThat went over my head, first reading. I thought British Thompson Houston made electric motors. Are you suggesting they may have manufactured complete machines?

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

Please help a newbie to woodlathes.

Two questions on how the lathe works.

1) To remove the live centre from the tailstock. The cattledog cuts Matty posted (and the RS catalogue cuts online) state "The centres are self-discharging". I take this to mean that if I back the tailstock poppet back as far as it will go, it will eject the live-centre? I've backed the poppet most of the way, but it gets very tight towards the end - and I wondered if that was because of the dings in the poppet

376575 Poppet extended the other way, showing the scars of many years of abuse by careless students :~

2) The switch panel.

376574 Rotary switch, left; "On/Off" pushbuttons, right

There are two "Off" positions; one on the speed control rotary switch; and one on the "On/Off" pushbutton switch.
I would assume that to operate the lathe I switch on at the push button, and then use the rotary switch to select "High" or "Low" speed, or "Off" if I want to adjust something? Is it okay to use the rotary switch at all, while the motor is running?

Or do I have to select the speed first, and then use the "On" pushbutton to start the spindle turning? The layout of the switches, with the pushbuttons nearest to the operator, would suggest the "Off" pushbutton should be the primary switch for stopping the motor.

I have no experience with vintage two speed motors, and really don't want to blow it up :no:.

Cheers, Vann.

[jgforsberg]

Err... yeah. Sorry about that. But you have to educate the newcomers like me.



Cheers, Vann.
Not a problem at all Vann it's just that you're so thorough You make us old veterans work hard. Hey we sometimes forget how much fun it is to discover all that kind of silly stuff . But I probably forgive you if you put together a K-line list . :wink:

So you got electrical problems . I'm not too bad with the old electrons so I can tell you what you Got. I will bet that's wired as so but you'll have to show me a couple pictures of the interior . Big knobby thing is what's called in the electronic world the drums switch . That's going to have six motor leads wired to it . The centre position is a stop switch (2 more wires)that will be wired in series With your control stop switch so that when you switch between Motor speeds on the fly it drops out your contacter . The control on off switch is a magnetic switch switching the line power . Control switches are wired three wire .

Dawning my helmet waiting for incoming

[jgforsberg]

OK addressing the BTH building of machines . BTH was certainly capable as they build some pretty massive stuff but that was not the arrangement with Wadkin at least in regards to some of the direct drive components like the PK motor which clearly states on there Motor tag that only the stators were built by BTH . So the arrangement was for wadkin to make the spindles and BTH to build a motor around it with in the confines And work together to build direct drive machines . Wadkin continue this relationship with Brooks motors as well in fact most of Wadkin machines have keywayed rotors in all their motors . By about the 50s wadkin motors are in the store room with much little about BTH . the motor stador castings made by BTH were moulded into the machine like the RT and CC CD . So in that way BTH was a direct Partner in the formation of the machine . This was quite revolutionary and it is said that wadkin were one of the first to pursue this Avenue of motor drive machine and we're following the American model .

[Vann]

Not a problem at all Vann it's just that you're so thorough You make us old veterans work hard. Hey we sometimes forget how much fun it is to discover all that kind of silly stuff . But I probably forgive you if you put together a K-line list . :wink:You do know I own no catalogues at all? None, Zilch, Nada, Bugger-all. If I have to use catalogues to make a K-line list, I'll never be forgiven :q


So you got electrical problems . I'm not too bad with the old electrons so I can tell you what you Got. I will bet that's wired as so but you'll have to show me a couple pictures of the interior . Big knobby thing is what's called in the electronic world the drums switch . That's going to have six motor leads wired to it . The centre position is a stop switch (2 more wires)that will be wired in series With your control stop switch so that when you switch between Motor speeds on the fly it drops out your contacter .Thanks for the explanation. going with your explanation - especially the bit about the centre position dropping out the contactor - I put the power on again tonight and tried the rotary switch. Bingo! When I moved the switch to the centre ("Off") position the contactor dropped out.

So now I understand how this thing operates - select speed required and press "On" button. To change speeds or stop the spindle, either the "Off" pushbutton or the "Off" position of the drum switch will drop out the contactor. And the operator cannot change from one speed to the other without the contactor dropping out.

A big THANK-YOU Jack. You've cleared up one of my queries :2tsup:.

I don't know if this picture is enough for you. I might remove the switch from the machine tomorrow while I have the other one out.

376656 Big knobbly thing (alias "drum switch")


The control on off switch is a magnetic switch switching the line power . Control switches are wired three wire .

376657 Control on off magnetic switch (alias "contactor")

Above photo: Power in: red, white & blue phase wires and green earth wire at the top. Power out: 3 x red wires (I might do something about that). I'm guessing the purple wires are from the central ("Off") position on the drum switch, to drop out the contactor.

The "Off" pushbutton doesn't work. In fact it doesn't move at all. I suspect a mechanical problem, not an electrical one. I'll remove this switch in the morning and see if I can spot the problem (what's jamming the "Off" switch).

Cheers, Vann.

[L.S.Barker1970]

Vann, l just read that your lathe is a wadkin/bursgreen BZL lathe.
Interesting .....

[Vann]

Vann, l just read that your lathe is a wadkin/bursgreen BZL lathe.
Interesting .....Yeah, I think he's got that a bit wrong :roll:. I'm just looking through Bursgreen cattledogs on VM now - researching an answer.

Cheers, Vann.

[L.S.Barker1970]

Yes, I'm looking at mine now, he's a long way of I think !
Its nice he's had a go at least, nothing worse than posting with no responses.

Melbourne Matty

[Vann]

I've posted a reply.

For anybody who's wondering what we're on about - a guy on OWWM suggested my lathe is a BZL (I didn't mean to start a thread on OWWM - just commented on someone else's thread on how far I'd driven to pick up my lathe - next thing I know they've started a new thread for me :oo:).

Cheers, Vann.

[jgforsberg]

I've posted a reply.

For anybody who's wondering what we're on about - a guy on OWWM suggested my lathe is a BZL (I didn't mean to start a thread on OWWM - just commented on someone else's thread on how far I'd driven to pick up my lathe - next thing I know they've started a new thread for me :oo:).

Cheers, Vann.
Ron Kellson is a good lad . In fact I found that bursgreen lathe for him($50). he lives in Ottawa and I talked him into getting It . Hell Wadkin got such a large range I don't even know all the machines. Really I think his remark Vann was about yours being the smallest lathe wadkin ever made and in that regard he was correct .

All warm beer jokes aside vann your electrical system is exactly as I stated . I suspect those cloth covered leads come right out of the motor . I would get some shrink tubing insulation and go back in as far as you can to the pecker head . Those old leads can get pretty brutal and the shrinkwrap is an excellent repair . The old motor leads on English machines at least in my country were labelled ABC so it's a good idea to keep those arranged and labelled so you don't mix up the two separate motor leads . Really all English electrical is utterly fantastic but does require cleaning . Just remember that stop contacts are normally closed making a circuit and start switches are normally open until you press them to make a circuit . There's probably contacts within the black bakilite discs as it looks like they rotate and engage each motor windings off the Orange feed wires .

[Vann]

I pulled the push button switch out this morning...

376678
...and found the problem with the "Off push button - it was something I'd done (so the less said about that the better http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/blush-anim-cl.gifhttp://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/blush-anim-cl.gif). It now appears to function correctly, but I didn't have time to re-install it before heading off for work. Hopefully tomorrow. Also couldn't find my heat gun for the heatshrink - for the cloth insulated leads.

Jack - recognise these?

376679 376680

The one on the left is the one currently on it's way to you (ex-BCK), while the one on the right is off my RT. They're identical (even down to the number cast in the back, so off the same pattern). I'm just sorry that yours didn't have the switches still attached (not as sorry as I'd be if it did have the switches attached, and my RTA switch was munted, and I'd given it away http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/actions/doh.gif).

Cheers, Vann.

[camoz]

Jack,

It's Vann, I have no idea why but I seem to have been logged in under Camoz (probably a glitch, which I am sure will be corrected as soon as I post the K list you were looking for):wink::U.

K.H. Wood Turning Lathe
K.G. Capstan Wood Trimmers
K.E. Automatic Propeller Shaper
K.F. Universal Propeller Vice
K.T. Hand Feed Jointer

Cheers,

Camo.....oops I mean Vann, yes it's definitely Vann, now please forgive me

[camoz]

Vann,

Loving seeing more of your RTA, oh and great work on getting that K list together (boy that was strange how you got logged in under me, thanks for logging out again after making your post for Jack:wink:).


It's been unclear whether the PJ had an AC motor or DC and certainly some if not all of John McDougall's early examples were DC motor driven.

I'm curious about what you have said here, as my understanding was the PJ came out with either pulley drive or motor drive mounted on the floor or below the floor level, not a direct drive setup. The PJ was the double dimension saw, just in case you meant the PL? On the subject of DC motors, the PK had the option for a DC motor, so if you did mean the PL, I could imagine that PL's would have had the option for DC. As you know these machines would have been stamped ##D.

Cheers,

Camo

[jgforsberg]

Vann,

Loving seeing more of your RTA, oh and great work on getting that K list together (boy that was strange how you got logged in under me, thanks for logging out again after making your post for Jack:wink:).



I'm curious about what you have said here, as my understanding was the PJ came out with either pulley drive or motor drive mounted on the floor or below the floor level, not a direct drive setup. The PJ was the double dimension saw, just in case you meant the PL? On the subject of DC motors, the PK had the option for a DC motor, so if you did mean the PL, I could imagine that PL's would have had the option for DC. As you know these machines would have been stamped ##D.

Cheers,

Camo

Yes brain fart but i thought the GW was the double:cool: we are talking about the air craft tooling

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll29/oldtool1/Engineering%20Equipment-Wadkin-1915-9640_zpsnvwh9oan.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/oldtool1/media/Engineering%20Equipment-Wadkin-1915-9640_zpsnvwh9oan.jpg.html)

[jgforsberg]

Jack,

It's Vann, I have no idea why but I seem to have been logged in under Camoz (probably a glitch, which I am sure will be corrected as soon as I post the K list you were looking for):wink::U.

K.H. Wood Turning Lathe
K.G. Capstan Wood Trimmers
K.E. Automatic Propeller Shaper
K.F. Universal Propeller Vice
K.T. Hand Feed Jointer

Cheers,

Camo.....oops I mean Vann, yes it's definitely Vann, now please forgive me

the KD is interesting
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll29/oldtool1/Engineering%20Equipment-Wadkin-1915-9641_zps9uqwtax1.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/oldtool1/media/Engineering%20Equipment-Wadkin-1915-9641_zps9uqwtax1.jpg.html)

the KA should be added

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll29/oldtool1/Engineering%20Equipment-Wadkin-1918-11012_zps3mxpbqbf.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/oldtool1/media/Engineering%20Equipment-Wadkin-1918-11012_zps3mxpbqbf.jpg.html)

any list on the A line and the G line ? I mean Vann if you really want to know about the letters you got to start with A

[camoz]

Yes brain fart but i thought the GW was the double:cool: we are talking about the air craft tooling

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll29/oldtool1/Engineering%20Equipment-Wadkin-1915-9640_zpsnvwh9oan.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/oldtool1/media/Engineering%20Equipment-Wadkin-1915-9640_zpsnvwh9oan.jpg.html)

Jack,

There is another complete topic that could be discussed (don't want to get Vann's post too far off track though), but here is the PJ, so it probably depends where you want your hand wheels and if you want a riving knife:cool:

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/611181CD-1C3C-4F07-AC7B-6DA42BF5FF68_zpstn0zmv26.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/611181CD-1C3C-4F07-AC7B-6DA42BF5FF68_zpstn0zmv26.jpg.html)

The reason for asking clarifying PJ vs PL was I may have some insight for you (a piece of the puzzle perhaps, certainly no answers, but perhaps some more information) as to why you might see PL's with DC (all assumptions until proven obviously). Here is how I think the PL came about, although I make some leaps (due to lack of documentation, so this is definitely a theory at this stage). The PL to me was the direct drive version of the PM, and the PL replaced by the PK, but the PM remained for longer due to it being the flat belt option. The PM had the option of Belt drive or driven by motor off the fast pulley or "the motor is mounted in a special manner direct on the main frame".

This was a time of change, and the company was obviously trying to move towards self contained options. There was the X.A which was a 20" non tilting saw (flat belt or floor mounted motor), but there was also the A.Z.A they say in the description "This machine is of similar construction to the A.X, except that it is electrically driven with the motor mounted direct on the saw spindle". Interestingly in the description they say "the motor is special design, and is manufactured by us by one of the best-known British makers". They mention the difficulty of an A.C. direct mounted motor at the time with the difference between 50 and 60hz, "we can supply machine on 60 cycle supply also, but saw should not then exceed 16" diameter". Also around the same time their is the P.A/P.B. with the option of a Direct coupled motor drive "the motor coupled direct to the saw spindle by means of a flexible coupling". In the description they state two hurdles they faced "the only disadvantage of this drive is that the motor comes above the saw table.......it is not always possible to adopt this method of drive as the speed of the motor must always be the same as the saw spindle speed.....In the case particularly of A.C. supply it is not possible always to obtain motors of suitable speeds"

I don't know my history of the standardization of voltage and frequency, the PK definitively (at least initially) had the option of DC or AC, and perhaps the reason why DC is seen in the examples of the PL, had to do with the limitation of the size of the blade, the thickness of the motor or the availability of power options. Like I said no real definitive answer, but perhaps some more information on the hurdles Wadkin were facing at the time, both with the differing power sources locally and in their overseas markets.

How does all this tie back in to Vann's post?? Well Vann let me apologies if I have gone off track, but I thought it might help understand how the RTA came about, firstly the "A" was due to it being a time of many drive options, with the introduction of electric motors, they added "A" and "D" to denote AC or DC, adding a 3rd letter could also mean something completely different eg. "B" was added to the X.A.B. which was the boring stand for the X.A. Secondly the RTA is an example of a self contained direct drive machine.

Cheers,

Camo

[Vann]

K.H. Wood Turning Lathe
K.G. Capstan Wood Trimmers
K.E. Automatic Propeller Shaper
K.F. Universal Propeller Vice
K.T. Hand Feed JointerSo, to update the list (in alphabetical order):

K.A. Propeller Boring & Recessing Machine;
K.D. Patent Strut Copying Lathe;
K.E. Automatic Propeller Shaper;
K.F. Universal Propeller Vice;
K.G. Capstan Wood Trimmers;
K.H. Wood Turning Lathe;
K.T. Hand Feed Jointer.

Cheers, the real Vann http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/happy/biggrin.gif

[Vann]

How does all this tie back in to Vann's post?? Well Vann let me apologies if I have gone off track, but I thought it might help understand how the RTA came about, firstly the "A" was due to it being a time of many drive options, with the introduction of electric motors, they added "A" and "D" to denote AC or DC, adding a 3rd letter could also mean something completely different eg. "B" was added to the X.A.B. which was the boring stand for the X.A. Secondly the RTA is an example of a self contained direct drive machine.So are you saying that the RTA is just an AC powered RT with a direct coupled motor (like a PKA is an AC powered PK)?

If so, that would make sense if they only ever intended to make an AC version (hence the "RTA" pattern numbers) but later added a DC version (as shown in Matty's cattledog cuts). This is what Jack is suggesting. That would mean there are/were RTDs made.

I was going to argue that you are wrong, because this DC machine is classified RTA (pikkies from post 15 in this thread).

376701 376702
But then I re-read the tag and noticed the "50 cycles" and "3 phase" http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/actions/doh.gif(well it looks like a DC machine http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/blush-anim-cl.gif - I'll just go sit in the dummies corner).

Then again, that would mean there should be CCA saws out there (for example). Does anyone know if there are?

As for going off track Camo - don't apologise. It's an interesting discussion (to me anyway). Loving it.

Cheers, Vann (the real one)

[jgforsberg]

Thanks camo I think you're thinking the same way I am of course you have just a bunch of knowledge I've never had Available .

Vann The AC is in all intensive purposes the CCA . if it wasn't for in AX I would've swore they were just claiming the saw to be AC powered by calling it AC. Obviously the A-line is the very first machines made after the pattern Miller and it appears that the K line was developed by government contract . This initially got Wadkin off to a good start. The catalogue cut I show is from 1915 . And I often wondered if these machines were specifically made for the mosquito aircraft that was a massive contract for the government . Incidentally the mosquito was a wooden Boomer and the fastest plane made out running the Germans .

[camoz]

Thanks camo I think you're thinking the same way

Jack,

I think you are right, just curious if you had found any info on those machines being specifically part of the propeller manufacturing machines, as this is information that I had seen but not really looked closely at.

It has really been fun having you jump on the Aussie forum and talk about all things Wadkin. Thanks for sharing those 1915 cuts. After your post, I went to look for clarification on some points regarding the history of Wadkin, and it's amazing to find how foggy the past is, even when it comes to looking at what might be considered to be reference sites.

Cheers,

Camo

[camoz]

Vann,


I'll just go sit in the dummies corner

Firstly let me say that is not correct, you are far from a dummy, just in case someone has not seen your work, you really do have a knack for researching your machines. Also by no means am I suggesting that necessarily all I am saying is 100% correct, I don't think anyone who has spoken on the forum can make that claim, I mean if you go back a year or so, we were all pretty much convinced that the first 2 numbers of the test number was the year, so everything should be treated as a theory until proven.

Now to try and answer some of your questions as best I can. Let me see if I can supply a bit more information to clarify what I am talking about.


Then again, that would mean there should be CCA saws out there (for example). Does anyone know if there are?

Well interesting you should pick the CC as it has a bit of an interesting past which may help shed some light on your previous questions and may even help Jack in the fact that we will be going back to the A's (but hold on because we are going right off topic here).

Wadkin had the A.Y. Pendulum Cross-Cut Saw

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/wadkin%20AY_zpsijr4ayvo.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/wadkin%20AY_zpsijr4ayvo.jpg.html)

Then they came up with the Wadkin A.C.

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/Wadkin%20AC_zpsm0oant6l.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/Wadkin%20AC_zpsm0oant6l.jpg.html)

As Jack has said they also had the AX, and a few other A's so I think at first they thought they had a group they would call the A's. They obviously tinkered with the idea of the Cross cutting machine for a bit and thought, lets see if we can get some more depth of cut and while we are at it, some people have said they just want to cut things at 90 and don't even want depth of cut adjustment, so now they had the CA (plain straight cross cutting) and the CC (for mitre cuts, angle sawing, trenching and grooving.....etc).

Now what about that A.Y. I was talking about? Well it came for either flat belt drive or with a self contained motor, but it also came in 2 sizes the 24" and the 32". Well things must of started to get a bit confusing with all the options either with ordering or perhaps assembly or casting, because the AY soon became the AY (24") and the AK (32").

Now back to the CC, I imagine some guy in the assembly room putting together a CC, while someone in the spare parts room is looking for a spare part for and AC for a customer, and the guy in the foundry is making parts for both. If you have a look at this parts list:

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/picture%20of%20cc%20parts_zpsmme2mdqy.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/picture%20of%20cc%20parts_zpsmme2mdqy.jpg.html)

You will see that some of the parts are CC some are AC and there are even others eg MK. As you can imagine, some parts are the same on one machine as they are on another, and some machines were made before the other, so when it comes to making a CC, and probably when it comes to looking at the casting on a CC, there will probably be parts marked with an earlier model part number (like Jacks example of the PK fence having PJ part numbers), and even part numbers associated with other machines (like the MK), otherwise you start having doubling up on everything (although looking at a later model machine you may find this is no longer the need to keep say an AC part, and I am guessing they may when recasting a batch change it to a CC, although that is purely speculation).

Now regarding the "A" for the RTA, well I see what you are saying about the CCA, as the CC was available in either Alternating Current or Direct Current, so what is the difference between the CC being just tagged CC and the RT being tagged RTA.

Well the PK is the same, in the fact that it was never designed to be flat belt drive, and there are certainly PK's in the wild stamped PKA, so in theory there may well be CC's stamped CCA, but when the 3 digit ##A is used in the catalogues I have seen, they are always described like this:

http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r754/woodworkforum/28237535-c608-4807-bf55-e185fe3366a9_zpsx5jbon4p.jpg (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/woodworkforum/media/28237535-c608-4807-bf55-e185fe3366a9_zpsx5jbon4p.jpg.html)

"A" denotes Alternating Current version and "D" denotes Direct Current version, so I think it is probably a fairly safe bet to say that an RTA is simply an RT with Alternating Current motor and the only reason we see all these RTA's and not any CCA's is simply because the RT was being produced in a time when Wadkin was adding the letter A to their alternating current machines.

Looking at Matty's catalogue cuts, I think they are actually different generations of RT's shown, and are both AC versions, just the first does not have a magnetic switch and just runs directly off the Drum switch (magnetic switch added in later version).

Hope that helps clarify some things, but as always things are never 100% clear when talking Wadkin and it's models.

Cheers,

Camo

[jgforsberg]

Jack,

I think you are right, just curious if you had found any info on those machines being specifically part of the propeller manufacturing machines, as this is information that I had seen but not really looked closely at.

It has really been fun having you jump on the Aussie forum and talk about all things Wadkin. Thanks for sharing those 1915 cuts. After your post, I went to look for clarification on some points regarding the history of Wadkin, and it's amazing to find how foggy the past is, even when it comes to looking at what might be considered to be reference sites.

Cheers,

Camo
how this Camo and i may have more:wink:

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll29/oldtool1/Engineering%20Equipment-Wadkin-1917-10326_zps93hir1kf.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/oldtool1/media/Engineering%20Equipment-Wadkin-1917-10326_zps93hir1kf.jpg.html)

note at this time as well that Ball bearings are new as well.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll29/oldtool1/Engineering%20Equipment-Wadkin-1915-9639_zpsukd9mkmv.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/oldtool1/media/Engineering%20Equipment-Wadkin-1915-9639_zpsukd9mkmv.jpg.html)

that strut lathe sure looks like the beginnings of the RS?

Vann's a "Waddy" through and through :U

[Vann]

Vann's a "Waddy" through and through :UC'mon man, I read the definition of a Waddy - I have to have two of the same Wadkins. I've only got two Wadkins, total (and bits of two more). Camo's got two BZLs, Auscab (Rob) has two PKAs*, I don't know what Matty has (does two Wadkin catalogues count? :;).

But, yes I admit to having Wadkinitus - and I'd have more than two if I had the space (and a bit more tolerance from SWMBO).

* actually - reading a thread on another forum, I read that Rob has thirty machines, so I bet there's more than one double-up of Wadkin in that lot :;.

Cheers, Vann.

[jgforsberg]

honorary Waddy Vann. Any one that documents PK changes is a shoe in.

[Vann]

honorary Waddy Vann. Any one that documents PK changes is a shoe in.If you think documenting PK changes is bad, you wait until you see my next evil undertaking (it might get me to Chief Waddie status). I'm considering a list of Wadkins by test number (not just confined to PKs, but anything and everything I can find). Just gotta decide whether there are enough Waddies here - or if I have to go to the Canadian site (heaven help me after the software upgrade there).

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

I pulled the push button switch out this morning...

376678
...It now appears to function correctly, but I didn't have time to re-install it before heading off for work. Hopefully tomorrow. Also couldn't find my heat gun for the heatshrink - for the cloth insulated leads.I had to take the cat to the vet before work yesterday (he got beaten up by a neighbourhood cat) so didn't get any shed time. But this morning I got everything wired up. It now runs the right way and all the switches work as they should.

I just need to tighten everything and put the lid on the electrical box.

I had to make an executive decision with regard to the cloth covered wires. I think I've loaned out my heat gun (haven't stumbled upon it yet) and the cloth insulation is in very good condition. I don't want this job to drag out as I still have a Preston bandsaw and Wadkin PK saw in bits. In a year or two I'll probably repaint the lathe and I'll do the wiring then.

I also checked out the handle on the speed selecting drum switch - which felt very sloppy. It turns out the handle should engage in a hole in the switch shaft - but the end of the handle is missing so it barely engages. I'll need to have that repaired.

I'm going to order an MT2 spur centre, as there wasn't one with the lathe. I'm assuming this one will do the job

376866

Teknatool Nova Spur centre | Trade Me (http://www.trademe.co.nz/building-renovation/tools/other/auction-1067626472.htm) (I guess I should really ask in the turning sub-forum as I think I've crossed the line from Antique & Vintage Machinery to Woodturning)

Cheers, Vann.

[L.S.Barker1970]

I'm assuming this one will do the job ? (I guess I should really ask in the turning sub-forum as I think I've crossed the line from Antique & Vintage Machinery to Woodturning)

Cheers, Vann.

Narr, keep it here Vann its your post !
What do u need to know ?
Do u have a live center for your tail stock ??

Melbourne Matty.

[Vann]

What do u need to know ?
Do u have a live center for your tail stock ??Hi Matty. The lathe came with two faceplates (screw onto the 1 3/8" headstock spindle); a screw centre (also screws onto the 1 3/8" headstock spindle). These are all genuine Wadkin parts AFAIKT. Then there's a live centre stuck in the MT2 tailstock.

So I need a spur centre to fit the MT2 taper in the headstock spindle. I assume any commercial MT2 spur centre (such as the one pictured above) will do?

Cheers, Vann.

[L.S.Barker1970]

Hi Matty. The lathe came with two faceplates (screw onto the 1 3/8" headstock spindle); a screw centre (also screws onto the 1 3/8" headstock spindle). These are all genuine Wadkin parts AFAIKT. Then there's a live centre stuck in the MT2 tailstock.

So I need a spur centre to fit the MT2 taper in the headstock spindle. I assume any commercial MT2 spur centre (such as the one pictured above) will do?

Cheers, Vann.

Vann its great your lathe came with those parts, it would not be easy chasing these parts if they were missing and the truth is a face plate would be easier to make than find.
Yes to the spur drive center or a crown drive also, both will do the job !

Melbourne Matty.

[Vann]

Yes to the spur drive center or a crown drive also, both will do the job !Thanks Matty. I've ordered the spur centre.

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

I just need to tighten everything and put the lid on the electrical box.Done! Before I screwed the top down I noted the number "2" stamped in both headstock and lid. I suspect that represents that this was the second RTA in the batch being assembled. Mark (wallace), on CWW, noted a No."4" under the paint on his RTA.

376952

I've taken the drum switch handle to a mate to have it bored and a pin fitted. While waiting (he can't do it until late next week) I had a bit of a tu-tu with the machine.

Following some friendly banter with Alli regarding 1950s Wadkins in green (on DSEL's Wadkin thread), I've been wondering about the colour scheme - it's a greenish/bluish grey. I removed the tag to reveal Wadkin grey below.

376951

And I removed the make-shift handle on the tool holder camshaft - to reveal the welded and broken stump of the original lever.

376953

Cheers, Vann.

[Allison74]

Following some friendly banter with Alli regarding 1950s Wadkins in green (on DSEL's Wadkin thread), I've been wondering about the colour scheme - it's a greenish/bluish grey. I removed the tag to reveal Wadkin grey below.

376951



Cheers, Vann.


Undercoat! Primer!

I know guys like women in underwear but now you Wadkin fetishists like your machines in undercoat.:D


Have fun,
Alli

[Vann]

While I wait for the speed selector handle to be machined, I considered dismantling and repainting the tool post holder. But it put up a fight (cam shaft burred at both ends). It still works okay. And as I still hadn't manged to get the live centre out of the tailstock...


To remove the live centre from the tailstock. The cattledog cuts Matty posted (and the RS catalogue cuts online) state "The centres are self-discharging". I take this to mean that if I back the tailstock poppet back as far as it will go, it will eject the live-centre? I've backed the poppet most of the way, but it gets very tight towards the end - and I wondered if that was because of the dings in the poppet...so I decided to give the tailstock my attention instead.


I know guys like women in underwear but now you Wadkin fetishists like your machines in undercoat.http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/standard/biggrin.gifNot just underwear/coats Alli. I like my machinery stripped bare :;.

377122 377123

These two pieces, and the handwheel, are now in undercoat. I've got two new ⅜" ball oilers, and this morning I ordered some taper pins (and a reamer) to replace any that need it (the taper pin through the handwheel boss had been replaced by a bolt :o). The tailstock will be painted in Wadkin grey - which may look a bit odd on an otherwise bluish/greenish grey machine, but I can live with that.

And I managed to get the live centre out by inserting a steel rod through the "poppet" (once the shaft was removed) and tapping the inner end with a hammer.

Cheers, Vann.

[Allison74]

Well Wadkinistas,
A 10" RS just went for $1700 plus premiums at auction so I'm sure you are all feeling good about your investments.

On the other hand a 16" RD jointer went for $320 which is cheap I reckon.

A 32" Danckaert planer went for well under $100.

Every one wants to be on the Green team:D

Bare?? No sense of mystery at all.:D

Have fun,
Alli

[clear out]

Cam and I checked these out yesterday.
They were a bit sad.:no:

The big Dankaert was junk.
All were very rusty, the jointer cutter head wouldn't turn.
The lathe was very rusty in spots and fine elsewhere, only came as in pics no banjos/tool rests or faceplates.
They were possibly in a leaky container under a torn tarp or similar.
H.

[Allison74]

Close to $2000 dollars plus freight because the buyer was in Vic.
I hope he gets his money's worth.

Have fun,
Alli

[jgforsberg]

Wow that one is poorly taken care of . A late-model to. We're seeing the RS Fitch six grand.

[camoz]

Alli,

Almost $2100 with all the fees, then add freight, but then as you know they don't usually come up often (well except for the recent run), I'm sure the problems could be fixed, but it's not going to be plug and play. The RD was a good price, still over $400 with fees, but it had been treated poorly, we couldn't free the cutter head and everything was seized, not to say it couldn't all be fixed, but I think the photos made it look better. The RD was one that I was seriously considering, but too many wrong time purchases already.

Cheers,

Camo

[auscab]

Thanks for the pictures Henry . I was watching that today . Its way more rusty than Greysonline hopeless pictures showed. Your pictures show so much more and it also looks so much more of a beast with the angles you took it at as well. Much nicer .

If I wasn't up to my neck in shifting I may have thought about it a little more . A grand to get it down here is a lot . cheap compared to going up and getting it I suppose.

Did you see the belt set up on it ? it said it had a V belt . Were the pulleys changed and a new motor ?

Rob

[camoz]

Did you see the belt set up on it ? it said it had a V belt . Were the pulleys changed and a new motor ?

Rob

Rob,

Just poor description, it was the standard setup (flat belt)

[issatree]

Hi Vann,
This may cause a stir.
Rather than buy a new Spur drive centre, which I do not own any more, I now make my own. Very Easy + a lot better.
Find a No2 Morse Taper Drill. Cut the drill part off, now you may have to anneal it a bit, so as you can turn it with your HSS Tools.
Mine are all Ring & Cone, that pre-seeded those steb centres, that when you get a catch, they bore a hole in your wood.
Well mine don't do that, as all the do is Spin on the Ring, so you just tighten the Tail Stock,a whisker.
It is quite easy to Turn Steel in a Wood Lathe.
The Tool I use is a piece of McJings 3/8in.Sq.Steel, & grind it to that Skewchegouge.
I take it you may know what that is, if not Google it.
Anyway, it cuts the Steel just like butter, & with a bit of speed, & not to slow, & of course you can have big ones & smaller ones.
These drive Centres are very safe, as the wood will not leave The Lathe, & that is the main reason that I use these.
Thatismy2senseworth.

[jgforsberg]

Vann couple things to note about the RS Morris 2 taper and I am Sure the RT is the same. The headstock taper is not a bore through the spindle and therefore doesn't contain a drawbar . Therefore you're not going to knock out a standard Morris taper tooling by wrapping the drawbar on the back outboard side. Wadkin's method of removing tooling from the taper was to have flats for spaner so you could twist the taper loose whist the spindles is locked . Common Morris taper tooling with the drive key on the end will need to be ground off to fit in both head and tell stock tapers . I have just simply ground flats on off the shelf tooling and you'll need to use a grinding stone in a die grinder for the hardened dead centres . For Chuck's Oneway here in Canada makes an adaptor for the 1 3/8 X 6 BSW threads and also supplies on number of options that fit in the chuck Including Modern drive spurs with the spring-loaded centres . I find these actually quite convenient . Lastly the RS benefits greatly by a Morris 2 the Morris 2 extension in two ways . First it allows you to get closer behind the work near the head stock and secondly it allows morris 2 taper drill chucks and drill bitswith the drive key to fit .

[Vann]

Rather than buy a new Spur drive centre, which I do not own any more, I now make my own. Very Easy + a lot better.
Find a No2 Morse Taper Drill. Cut the drill part off, now you may have to anneal it a bit, so as you can turn it with your HSS Tools.
Mine are all Ring & Cone, that pre-seeded those steb centres, that when you get a catch, they bore a hole in your wood.
Well mine don't do that, as all the do is Spin on the Ring, so you just tighten the Tail Stock,a whisker.That sounds a good idea. However, I ordered a spur drive last Friday (and I'm disappointed it hasn't arrived yet). I also don't own an MT2 drill bit (my drill press is only MT1). I assume I should be looking for a munted MT2 bit of at least 1" diameter? Or bigger?

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

Wadkin's method of removing tooling from the taper was to have flats for spaner so you could twist the taper loose whist the spindles is locked . Common Morris taper tooling with the drive key on the end will need to be ground off to fit in both head and tell stock tapers . I have just simply ground flats on off the shelf tooling and you'll need to use a grinding stone in a die grinder for the hardened dead centres . For Chuck's Oneway here in Canada makes an adaptor for the 1 3/8 X 6 BSW threads and also supplies on number of options that fit in the chuck Including Modern drive spurs with the spring-loaded centres . I find these actually quite convenient . Lastly the RS benefits greatly by a Morris 2 the Morris 2 extension in two ways . First it allows you to get closer behind the work near the head stock and secondly it allows morris 2 taper drill chucks and drill bitswith the drive key to fit .
Thanks Jack. I didn't know about the flats. When the spur centre arrives I'll have to check it out and see where to grind/machine flats.
I was considering a cheap MT2>MT1 adaptor to allow me to use my MT1 Jacobs chuck in the tailstock - and I'd figured I might need to grind the end off. Maybe I should order an MT2>MT2 at the same time.

When I re-assemble the tailstock this weekend (I put the last coat of enamel on this morning), I'll check out why it wouldn't "self-discharge" the live centre. I may need an extension on the live centre or tailstock mandrel.

As for a "real" chuck - I'll wait until I feei I could use one. I'm not sure I could turn brass or steel at 1500/3000 rpm - and without a proper toolpost.

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

I spent some time today putting the tailstock back together.

I'm not sure the bolt that clamps the tailstock to the bed is the original. The head is way smaller than the casting it sits in, leaving room to partly rotate...

377411 377413 377412

The washer that came with it is 42mm diameter, while the spotface is just under 36mm dia.

377414

I found a smaller dia. washer. The bolt is also about 1" longer than necessary. I'd have thought 1/8" to 1/4" over-length would be good design. 1" over-length makes me think it's from somewhere else.

377410

I also found an old spanner that fits well. It's now painted Wadkin grey :;.

Cheers, Vann.

[jgforsberg]

The bolt looks Wadkin the nut doesn't . Wadkin tailstock nuts are double tall for easy wrenching . I suspect the tall one was lost and of course you to have to make that in Whitworth. I don't think you'd want to head tight in there cause it wouldn't give you any slop in the hole which of course you need for adjustment The banjo

[Vann]

The bolt looks Wadkin the nut doesn't . Wadkin tailstock nuts are double tall for easy wrenching . I suspect the tall one was lost and of course you to have to make that in Whitworth.Quite right Jack - I should have looked further before posting. I'm considering getting a tall nut made ($$$). I have Whitworth taps. One inch high?

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355001/wadkin%20RT345_zps7yjfck30.jpgMatty's pikkie.

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

I must admit they have completely slipped under my radar in the past.
I was not at all aware of them until a post recently on the Canadian Forum.
Ive never seen a mention in any of the catalogues I have or have looked at.
And this was posted on the Canadian forum in November 2014...

Glad to see someone found one out there in the wild. Nearly an extinct breed. About a year ago during a discussion about a Dominion lathe I was told that they did not exist.
I've posted pictures of five so far, and have now tracked down two more.

This one belongs to Adam Riley in the UK

377970 377971 RTA 440 - Test No.51952- of 1955.

The motor tag has both the Wadkin and BTH logos and states "BTH STATOR & ROTOR UNIT"

377972

While this one is at the Cowbridge Sawmill, in the UK.

377973 Tailstock & banjo on the pallet. Headstock??? Numbers not known.

Cheers, Vann.

[Uncle Al]

I'm considering getting a tall nut made ($$$). I have Whitworth taps. One inch high?



That nut looks very much like a coupling nut for joining lengths of allthread or Booker rod (threaded rod). Check with a fastener company if they have BSW thread, the common thread is UNC, which has a different thread pitch, and therefore not interchangeable. Bunnings would have them, but probably only UNC.
Alernativley, you might be able to get a bit of hex bar offcut from a machine shop and dill and tap it yourself if you have the facilities.

Hope this is of some help,

Alan...

[chambezio]

Alan....just for your memory bank, UNC and Whitworth will cross over each other even though they have different pitches. What I am saying is that you can mix any nut or bolt and it will work fine. The only size that will not mix is ½", it will bind. All other sizes will work with either
But you probably knew that

[clear out]

UNC and Whitworth do have the same tpi except for 1/2 inch which is 13 and 12 tpi respectively.
With a big enough spanner this shouldn't be too much of a problem.
They should not be interchanged on automotive or motorcycle use as they do not hold effectively especially after being used a few times. This is a major problem on English vehicles that come to Oz via the U.S.
I can probably source a nut for you Vann fron Civil Eng at Syd Uni.
They have a stash of old Whitworth up to 3/4" at least from memory.
What size thread was it?
H.

[Vann]

That nut looks very much like a coupling nut for joining lengths of allthread or Booker rod (threaded rod). Check with a fastener company if they have BSW thread, the common thread is UNC, which has a different thread pitch, and therefore not interchangeable. Bunnings would have them, but probably only UNC.
Alernativley, you might be able to get a bit of hex bar offcut from a machine shop and dill and tap it yourself if you have the facilities.

I can probably source a nut for you Vann fron Civil Eng at Syd Uni.
They have a stash of old Whitworth up to 3/4" at least from memory.
What size thread was it?
Thanks gentlemen, your thoughts are appreciated, but I already have a nut. Only it's a standard size 5/8" BSW nut, whereas Wadkin used an overlength nut (looks to be about 1" long). So I'm after a nut that is a genuine Wadkin overlength nut, or a reproduction (i.e 1.01" across flats), and it's the cost of a reproduction that will cost the $$$ (probably $50+ even with me doing the tapping). A 5/8" UNC nut is (from memory) 7/8" AF - no big deal, but nothing really gained. Drilling and tapping a short length of hex bar I could do, but it doesn't come in 1.01" AF.

Henry, I don't suppose they'd have any overlength nuts at Syd Uni?

Cheers, Vann (who doesn't mean to be an ungrateful ba$tard :no:).

[Vann]

I also checked out the handle on the speed selecting drum switch - which felt very sloppy. It turns out the handle should engage in a hole in the switch shaft - but the end of the handle is missing so it barely engages. I'll need to have that repaired.

According to the cattledog cuts, contributed by Matty in post 12...

"...A hand-operated change-pole controller is built into the headstock for starting and varying the speed of the motor. A detachable handle operates the control gear and also locks the spindle when changing face plates. This method prevents the motor being started when the spindle is locked..."

The end of the detachabe handle looked like this

378009

It's now back from repair, with a mild steel spigot (so as not to damage the drum switch shaft) and a HT locating pin on the side.

378010

The handle slides down inside the casting like this.

378011

The casting is not fixed to the drum switch shaft, but is free to rotate, retarded only by a spring loaded ball that locates in a slight depression (see pikkie above) in the casting when it is vertical.

378018

So the switch can only be activated when the handle is inserted and the spigot engages the hole in the drum switch shaft.

378013 378012 Sorry about the fuzzy and clipped photos - the camera would not auto-focus on the parts wanted, in spite of several attempts. These photos are the best of a bad bunch :B

Or the handle can be lifted and turned so that it's not engaged, to ensure the drum switch isn't switched.

378055

But wait, there's more !! The handle can be removed completely and inserted in the hole in the top of the brake (LH end of headstock), to engage and lock the spindle .

378056 378057

All in all, it's a bit over the top, and not foolproof - as the handle can be removed with the drum switch in either "Low" or "High" speed positions, and inserted in the spindle lock - negating all the clever design and failing to prevent "...the motor being started when the spindle is locked..." Nevertheless I'm sure I'll find having a spindle lock very helpful.

Cheers, Vann.

[Uncle Al]

Alan....just for your memory bank, UNC and Whitworth will cross over each other even though they have different pitches. What I am saying is that you can mix any nut or bolt and it will work fine. The only size that will not mix is ½", it will bind. All other sizes will work with either
But you probably knew that

For some reason I assumed the thread was 1/2", dunno where I got that from. I have heaps of BSW bolts and nuts, and quite a bit of 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8" UNC stuff, and as you say, is quite interchangeable for making jigs etc. The annoying thing is (for me) the A.F (across the flats) dimensions vary, so one can end up with different sized spanners on a job held together with numerous bolts. Always pays to check that they are all one breed or the other, saves a lot of colourful language!

As for the requirement of about 1" AF hex bar, still might be worthwhile checking for offcuts with a machine shop.

Alan...

[clear out]

Henry, I don't suppose they'd have any overlength nuts at Syd Uni?

Cheers, Vann (who doesn't mean to be an ungrateful ba$tard :no:).[/QUOTE]


Vann,
Being the Structures Lab where they test a lot of steel product out of China they had some old longer nuts from memory in the store.
I may even have some 1 inch steel hex in the shed, will have a look tomorrow.
H.

[jgforsberg]

In the future the Wadkin temple will have in stock new Bronzes PK spindle nuts and a few other sizes in BSW. Matt Matt is making up what we are calling the Jackifided upgrades. I will post here when they're in stock. PK nut are only $75 and is surface ground so i can't see a 5/8 being $50 Vann.

[clear out]

Hi Vann,
We have come up with a piece of hex and when we put the 3 jaw back on the lathe will size it and bore it.
Probably run a 5/8 w tap up it if that's correct?
The other pic is of the nut off my recently aquired RS, I thought they may have been the same size but as you can see not so.
H.

[Vann]

The other pic is of the nut off my recently aquired RS...That's interesting that your RS nut is 28.06mmAF. All the bolt heads and nuts on my 1951 lathe are 1.01" - 25.65mm AF (the revised standard from WW2). Your nut appears to be nominally 1.10" - 27.94mm AF (the pre-WW2 standard). What year is your RS?

Cheers, Vann.

[wallace1973]

Vann heres one of the RT's I did. I really enjoyed doing it. There nice little lathes shame about the capacity.

https://media.joomeo.com/large/5736055dd4c06.jpg (https://media.joomeo.com/5736055dd4c06)

Mine came with a brass faceplate which I kept to put on my RS

https://media.joomeo.com/large/54ce54070ee11.jpg (https://media.joomeo.com/54ce54070ee11)

[Vann]

Vann heres one of the RT's I did. I really enjoyed doing it. There nice little lathes shame about the capacity.

Mine came with a brass faceplate...Nice do-up Mark - beautiful. Mine came with two faceplates, both cast iron, both 6 1/2" dia.

Now, if you could just get deep enough into your rat-hole to get details of your other RT lathe... :;

Cheers, Vann.

[wallace1973]

Here you go Vann, I did notice some subtle differences between the two lathes. One thing for definite is make sure you have the correct tail stock when you have two machines and your restoring one. I finished everything and when I came to put it all together the tail stock wouldn't fit in between the bed gap. The size difference is very small but if a wadkin part doesn't fit just doesn't. I then had to dig out the other part and make it pretty. Strange they both date from 1951, could that be change over year for tin to cast tags

https://media.joomeo.com/large/54c50f172665c.jpg (https://media.joomeo.com/54c50f172665c)

[Vann]

Way back in post ♯30 (page 2 of this thread), Matty posted this picture of a Wadkin KH woodlathe.



http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355001/wadkin%20KH346_zpspl78kb8q.jpg


While in post ♯80 (page 6) I posted this picture of an RT at Cowbridge Sawmill museum in UK.

379556

This morning the fine folks at Cowbridge sent me these photos.

379557 379558

Turns out it isn't an RT after all, but a KH - without the gap bed.

379559 KH 253, test 6759 - making it pre-1937

Of further interest is that it's test number 6759, is later than that of the RT shown in post ♯50 (p4) of RTA 148 - test 5629 - meaning both RT and KH were in production at the same time - albeit both sharing the RT bed (most unseemly behaviour for the 1930s :B).

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

Thanks gentlemen, your thoughts are appreciated, but I already have a nut. Only it's a standard size 5/8" BSW nut, whereas Wadkin used an overlength nut (looks to be about 1" long). So I'm after a nut that is a genuine Wadkin overlength nut, or a reproduction (i.e 1.01" across flats)...Well, after some careful research (I asked Camo and wallace about the size of their nuts - they both have two BTW :q) I have concluded that the correct size of the tailstock nut is 1.10" (27.94mm) across flats.

Interesting - because 1.10” is the old, pre-WW2 standard for 5/8” BSW nuts and bolts, while 1.01” is the revised standard from WW2 on. I did wonder if Wadkin retained the larger nut for the larger flats, or if they simply had a large stock of the special nuts from before the war. However, while wallace has a 1940 lathe with that size nut (which could well be pre-WW2 stock), Camo's RS lathes date to 1953 and later - so almost certainly they retained that size for the larger flats. The nut on Henry's is also this size, but I don't know the age of his lathe.

Camo put the length (height?) at 1.014"

I asked my machinist mate to make a couple of nuts. I had a length of rusty 1 5/16" diameter bar (the column of an old Boynton & Plummer post drill) and he machined them from that. And here they are...

386891 New nut fitted - old nut at left, spare nut at right.

386892 The washer is off a CK saw - a genuine Wadkin part but thicker than normal in this application.

Cost me $50 for the two. The nut was tight after an initial few turns. I suspect the bolt threads may be a bit stretched, thanks to years of abuse in the school classroom.

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

snip
391349

I also found an old spanner that fits well. It's now painted Wadkin grey :;.So that spanner was to fit the standard post-WW2 nut (1.01" across flats) that came with the lathe.

Once I'd had a replica nut made up - to ye olde pre-WW2 standard (1.1" across flats) - I had to find another spanner. I found this ¾"w + ⅝"w one and once again painted it in Wadkin grey.

391347

However I found that having the bigger ¾" BSW jaws hanging off the other end made the spanner a bit awkward in use. I hunted through some old spanners and found a ⅝"w + ½"w spanner, but the half inch jaws had been abused and were no longer parallel. So I ground off the jaws, and ground and filed the end until I had this...

391348

Much easier to use, and painted matt black (not Wadkin grey) as black appears to be the colour of spanners supplied by Wadkin.

Cheers, Vann.

[rusticraft]

This is one of the Wadkins I used from 1959 till 1970. The others were RS 10 lathes. I have Wadkinitise, I think they call it. Loved using these.
393386

[L.S.Barker1970]

This is one of the Wadkins I used from 1959 till 1970. The others were RS 10 lathes. I have Wadkinitise, I think they call it. Loved using these.
393386
Is that the Wadkin RU you worked on rusty ?
I have seen one of those majestic pattern lathes in a pattern shop, could not believe the size of the thing when I first saw it !!

Melbourne Matty.

[rusticraft]

Yes it's the Ru. I worked in a steelworks patter shop. We turned work nearly 8' diameter & nearly 12' long spindle work. The bed was 10' long & could be wound away from the pedestal with a rack & pinion.
this is one of the pieces we turned on that lathe. It's a liner for a steel making vessel. It is approx8' diameter x 16' tall. It was made in segments forming sections 2' deep & bolted together to form the whole. We were experimenting liquid oxygen steel making & used an old Bessemer converter for the trials this former was erected inside the vessel so the refractory lining could be rammed in place, then removed in sections. Ah, memories.
393636

[wallace1973]

Love the old pictures, did you put that first one on a different forum a few years ago? It rings a bell. I very nearly bought an RU last year for £1500, I've kicked myself ever since. Any more old pics?