Help for challenging small sliding lid box finish

[Studiovape]

Hi folks, I've been lurking here for a while and finally decided to take the plunge and join up to try and get some specific help on this issue.
I have been making electronic cigarettes for about three years now and pretty much exclusively from stabilised burl for the last 18 months or so.

Here are some examples of my work:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/602/22972762109_ca39725109_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/B12pPk)IMG_4265SV Mod copy (https://flic.kr/p/B12pPk) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/643/22972762779_340ac26048_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/B12q1T)IMG_4275SV Mod copy (https://flic.kr/p/B12q1T) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/688/23340691245_8c26d7f804_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Byx9k8)IMG_4288SV Mod copy (https://flic.kr/p/Byx9k8) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr


https://farm1.staticflickr.com/764/23789332032_dba2f83ac8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CfbxB7)IMG_4454 copy (https://flic.kr/p/CfbxB7) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/732/23815175831_5b80f5dd17_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Cht14R)IMG_4456 copy (https://flic.kr/p/Cht14R) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr





After buying a mini mill, bandsaw, etc, making a router table and UV drying cabinet I am pretty much rolling along with small limited runs.
My main issue though is my finishing schedule/system.

Most of the info available on the net to do with wood finishing is either large items like furniture or turned items, and I feel a little lost when trying to find what will consistently work for me.
I have scoured the luthier and gunstock making forums along with here and other woodwork resources.
I have a unique set of challenges with what I make when it comes to a finish.

It needs to be applied in a way that is controllable to avoid build up in the dovetail slots and around the door and other insert panels.
It needs to be compatible with the "Cactus Juice" that is used to stabilize the blanks I use.
It needs to be compatible with some kind of void/crack filling pore filling system.
It needs to be very waterproof, sweat proof and alcohol resistant, as it can have "e liquid" spilled on and in it, and is held in the hand potentially all day.
It needs to be durable, again as it is to be handled all day.
It needs to pop the grain as much as possible.
It needs to involve next to no sanding as sanding risks damaging the intricate recesses and dovetails

Now the images posted are finished with tru oil, but I am yet to really be happy with the finish durability.
I have tried spraying Cabots CPF ans FW Floorseal in cans made up at the local paint shop. I have tried Quick 15, I have tried making up a wipe on poly from the Cabbots floorseal and mineral turps (70%Cabbots 30% turps 2% terebine), I couldn't seem to get anything to work for me, these two below I finished with Aussie Oil after trying all the above finishes and stripping back to wood each time, however I am fearful that even after the 21 days of crosslinking the small amount alcohol in the flavoring of the ejuice will at some point be spilled on the finish and ruin it.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1466/25828796721_551b9e0cc1_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Fmpkpp)IMG_5184-200316 (https://flic.kr/p/Fmpkpp) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr

I have researched finishes till I'm dizzy so please help if you can.
Admittedly "some" of the weather we were having during the epic fail of some of the mentioned finishes was rainy and humid, hence the build of the UV drying cabinet (with thermostat and heater and exhaust fan).
Cheers
SV

[Studiovape]

Wow sixty odd views and not a single comment!:?

[LGS]

Hi and welcome to the forums,

You ask a lot from your finish! But I see your issue.

You might like to give OSMO oil a go. Some furniture makers swear by it. (http://www.osmoaustralia.com.au/)

It might also be worth a call to Organoil about the issue.

(www.facebook.com/Organoil-Timber-Finishes-130137020383457/)

Regards,

Rob

[Studiovape]

Thanks Rob for the welcome anD for the recommendation. Been doing some reading on Osmo Oil and seems like an impressive product. Will do more research tomorrow, but looks promising. Thanks again.
SV

[Enfield Guy]

Vote two for OSMO. I see you are in Qld, Brisbane perhaps? If you are in Brisbane you should PM me. You might be able to test OSMO without financial outlay.

Cheers

[Studiovape]

Vote two for OSMO. I see you are in Qld, Brisbane perhaps? If you are in Brisbane you should PM me. You might be able to test OSMO without financial outlay.

Cheers

Thanks Tom,
I'm in Gympie I'm afraid otherwise that would have been great.
Can you suggest a supplier that will post to me here.
Also I hear there are four levels of sheen from matt to gloss, but I only seem to find matt and Semi-matt/Satin listed in Australia.
There seem to be a lot of options from decking to floor to benchtop versions I'm not sure how these compare for my particular aplication and, I also see that the price is high for the larger cans but the "Top oil" is available in 500mls (up to Satin) here : Top Oil for Benchtops - Natural Timber Oils Victoria (http://www.naturaltimberoils.com.au/timber-oils/categories/interior-timber-finishes/products-for-timber-kitchen-benctops/top-oil-for-benchtops/)
Which version sheen level have you used?

[Studiovape]

Another couple of questions about the Osmo oil, and forgive my ignorance here, but am I going to have and issue with a highly sanded surface. I tend to sand mt boxes to at least 2500 grit, will this create an adhesion issue, and is so what is the highest grit sanding I should go with. Being as the stabilised blanks ( they are still porous and absorbent )I use are all highly figured burl sanding scratches cannot be hidden in with the grain.

This from their application sheet:
"
Sand the timber’s surface, finishing with
80 grit for hardwoods such as Jarrah and
Eucalypt, and 100 - 120 grit for woods such
as Oak,
Cypress Pine etc. (For old dry
softwoods such as cedar and pine
, finish with 150 grit paper).
Note:
Ensure all sanding marks are removed
from the timber; otherwise they
will be accentuated and visible through the fini
sh. Remember – the final result and appearance
depends
on the quality of the sanding! Remove any sanding dust."


Also I have been considering using some Ubeaut water dyes to enhance the figure before finishing. Applying a weak wash and sanding back so the more absorbent fibers take on the darker colour and the denser areas get sanded clear, would this technique be suitable in combination with the Osmo oil?

[Studiovape]

I found the Gloss version here :OSMO PolyX Oil Original Range – robcousens Indoor | Outdoor | Furniture (http://www.robcousens.com.au/collections/osmo-interior-oils/products/osmo-polyx-420-clear-gloss)
Any suggestions on which version might be best for me would be very much appreciated :)

[Enfield Guy]

Give them a ring. They will usually send a sample for nil or minimal cost. In your case a 5ml sample may well do more items than you think. The idea is to apply thinly, very,very important. As far as sanding is concerned, I rarely go beyond 180, maybe 240, but i mainly do larger pieces of furniture. I have not had adhesion issues yet following this process. I use satin primarily because I can't stand gloss finishes, they tend to reflect the surroundings rather than the wood grain, which in my view is what you want to see. If it was me in your shoes, I would ring Ray, discuss your needs and desires, get samples and play. Ray is very knowledgable and very helpful. In my view, a small can would last you a very long time. Such being the case, I would advise you to invert the can after use to create a better seal under the lid and store the can in its normal position in a fridge on a warmer setting than normal. I find I get better life out of the product that way, i.e.:it doesn't go off in the can. Decanting into smaller containers works well also.

Cheers
Bevan

[Studiovape]

Thanks Bevan,
Just watched this review : Brand New Product - Osmo PolyX Gloss - video (http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tool-reviews/brand-new-product-osmo-polyx-gloss-video/msg329063/?PHPSESSID=n2apnfoij5jir6npfv21ma83m5#msg329063)
I was going to pull the trigger on a 375ml can of the Gloss from here:OSMO PolyX Oil Original Range – robcousens Indoor | Outdoor | Furniture (http://www.robcousens.com.au/collections/osmo-interior-oils/products/osmo-polyx-420-clear-gloss)
I think it's still a satiny finish just slightly higher sheen from the video, which on smaller items might be ideal.
I have left a message with "naturaltimberoils" to call me back is that where the "Ray" you speak of resides?

[Enfield Guy]

Yep. He's the distributor. Like I said, see if you can get a sample first, even if you have to pay. In your case it may well prove to be more economic given the size of the product you make and how much you would use per unit.

[Enfield Guy]

Yeah the gloss is nice, I suppose. I'm still a satin man though, even on smaller items. However, I do use a gloss finish for a couple of my production items where the market demands it, the market is stupid some times.

[Studiovape]

Yep. He's the distributor. Like I said, see if you can get a sample first, even if you have to pay. In your case it may well prove to be more economic given the size of the product you make and how much you would use per unit.

I got a call back, Ray was away today , but the very nice lady is sending me some sample free of charge, so despite my impatient nature (you can tell that really helps with my finishing :rolleyes:) I will wait for them to arrive and do some testing before I add another large tin of unsuitable finishing product to my growing collection.
Thanks for the rewarding advice.
I just received my new book form the Uk (via ebay) today "Bob Flexner , Understating wood finishing", so finally I have some accurate (or at least that is my understanding) research material for my finish schooling.
One question that I know has been discussed before (but honestly all the discussion ended with the answer being as clear as mud to me, but USA Bob mentions Turpentine and then Mineral Spirits as separate products, can anyone clarify for me what Australian translations are?

[Enfield Guy]

My understanding is Turpentine is the same as here. Mineral spirits are known as white spirit here. Sometimes marketed as dry cleaning fluid. You should be able to buy either at the big green or blue sheds. My understanding is they are both similar in properties.

[Enfield Guy]

Don't forget to report back with how it goes for you. I for one would be interested.

Cheers
Bevan

[Studiovape]

Don't forget to report back with how it goes for you. I for one would be interested.

Cheers
Bevan

Yes, I will for sure, nothing a like thread without a summary of end results.

[fletty]

Hi SV and, likewise, welcome to the forum. I'm not normally 'in' the finishing thread but, by coincidence, I have just posted a thread on Aussie Oil. The 2 eCigarettes you have finished in Aussie Oil look stunning but I understand your concerns about longevity. You may not be aware, but this forum is hosted by U-Beaut who are the manufacturers of Aussie Oil and MR U-Beaut himself, the benevolent dictator, is probably Australia's greatest authority on finishing and will hopefully chime in soon.u
Your design is so crisp and stunning and your workmanship so good, that I almost wish I was a reforming smoker!
fletty

[Studiovape]

Hi SV and, likewise, welcome to the forum. I'm not normally 'in' the finishing thread but, by coincidence, I have just posted a thread on Aussie Oil. The 2 eCigarettes you have finished in Aussie Oil look stunning but I understand your concerns about longevity. You may not be aware, but this forum is hosted by U-Beaut who are the manufacturers of Aussie Oil and MR U-Beaut himself, the benevolent dictator, is probably Australia's greatest authority on finishing and will hopefully chime in soon.u
Your design is so crisp and stunning and your workmanship so good, that I almost wish I was a reforming smoker!
fletty

Hi Fletty, thanks for you welcome and you kind words, nothing is more painful than completing one of these stabilised vaporisers (e cig) and then pulling your hair out over the finishing and any advise from experience woodworkers/finishers is so gratefully received. I was aware of Niels parenting of this forum, and the Ubeaut connection, and I have scoured the net for his comments that might pertain or relate to my problem.
I am still awaiting samples of Osmo oil, but they are slow in arriving, and since I contacted them about Osmo oil I am becoming a little concerned about some of the comments on other woodwork forums (particularly UKworkshop) about it's poor performance exposed to liquids and household chemicals, I am still keen to do some of my own testing, but I can't help but feel that maybe Niel's input would be very useful.
Some posters stated they have returned to using Liberon FO due to durability issues with Osmo !!
I do have to accept that there is probably no "Ideal" finish for my project but where to compromise is the hard part.
I have been considering giving wipe on Poly another go, with higher ratio of Turps to Poly. I have tried Cabotts CFP floor poly but only thinned it to one part turps 2part poly, I have read the store bought wipe on poly only has about 1 part poly to 3 parts turps. either way I still have the issue of getting a flawless finish without too much build up.
I know Aussie oil is supposed to crosslink after around 21 days and after that it is marr and alcohol "resistant", but then if you have to touch it up, you have to wait all that time again before you can spill liquid on it etc, which is going to be for the folks who use the vaporiser daily.
I don't think there are many other applications that pose such a challenge for a finish and I'm asking a lot.
I also had a play with layering thin coats of Z-poxy finishing resin, and got good results, but the occasion hint that amine blush could be an issue down the road if it was final coated with poly for UV protection gave me the heebie jeebies, and I ditched the method. does it really need UV protection?, It's not really a piece of outdoor furniture is it?, but I can't find any reports of folks using at a clear coat top of final finish. It is very hard, has good abrasion resistance, helps stabilise the outer layer of wood,is waterproof and resistant to nearly every household chemical, polishes to a good shine, but could yellow over time ( how much considering such little exposure to sunlight who knows?) and could lift a finish if amine blush becomes and issue)
I didn't really go into depth about all the things I have tried initially because I wanted to see what you folks thought in general terms.
I'll say one thing though, if I can put this question to bed I'll be a very happy man indeed.

[Studiovape]

Anyone interested in amine blush , what it is and how you can reduce the possibility of it's related issues can find a useful report here :http://www.huntsman.com/performance_products/Media%20Library/a_MC348531CFA3EA9A2E040EBCD2B6B7B06/Home_MC348531CFA8BA9A2E040EBCD2B6B7B06/Technical%20Presentati_MC4296668862CCC36E040EBCD2B6B5BA5/files/Amine%20Blush%20in%20Epoxies%20-%20Burton%20-%202013.pdf

MY interweb research showed that Z-poxy finishing resin is not "commonly' known to have amine blush issues, but the precautions I took were to run a fan between myself and my work piece to reduce CO2 being breathed onto the piecework and placing the coated box or panel into a mildly heated (40deg)fan exhausted drying box to cure at a constant warm temperature.

[Enfield Guy]

My strong suggestion is to do the testing and research. In my testing, once properly cured, a teaspoon of OP rum left on a coated product overnight and wiped off in the morning showed no ill effects to the finish. I suggest that others who have had problems with the finish have had issues with improper application.

[Sawdust Maker]

This may be a question to ask over in the box making part of the forum

I've heard good things about the Livos products though haven't used them myself
Livos (https://www.livos.com.au/)

[Studiovape]

My strong suggestion is to do the testing and research. In my testing, once properly cured, a teaspoon of OP rum left on a coated product overnight and wiped off in the morning showed no ill effects to the finish. I suggest that others who have had problems with the finish have had issues with improper application.
Can I ask how long you consider it takes to properly cure?

[Enfield Guy]

I say 7 days. Most finishes will continue to harden for some time after the initial drying time in my experience.

[AngelaPetruzzi]

It would be a good idea to do some test pieces with various products and put them through the same conditions. No product is bomb proof and you will need to compromise, however, once you have completed several tests you will be better able to decide.

If you have not yet decided on a product, may I suggest trying the Linn Bathroom oil # 1703. This is the glossiest of the Livos products and better able to withstand various stains....once it has hardened and cured.

Re the question previously re white spirits The Mineral Spirits of USA equates in Australia toMineral Turpentine, also known as petro pine or just plain turps.
Turpentine: Strong odor. One of the most compatible solvents foroil paint. Fast drying. Relatively aggressive in its solvent action. It is thedistilled sap of a pine tree.

Mineral Spirits: Low, or no odor. Good, but not quite as compatible withoil paint as Turpentine. Slower drying than Turpentine. Not as aggresive asolvent as Turpentine. It is a distillation of petroleum.

Hope that is of some help.


l

[Studiovape]

It would be a good idea to do some test pieces with various products and put them through the same conditions. No product is bomb proof and you will need to compromise, however, once you have completed several tests you will be better able to decide.

If you have not yet decided on a product, may I suggest trying the Linn Bathroom oil # 1703. This is the glossiest of the Livos products and better able to withstand various stains....once it has hardened and cured.

Re the question previously re white spirits The Mineral Spirits of USA equates in Australia toMineral Turpentine, also known as petro pine or just plain turps.
Turpentine: Strong odor. One of the most compatible solvents foroil paint. Fast drying. Relatively aggressive in its solvent action. It is thedistilled sap of a pine tree.

Mineral Spirits: Low, or no odor. Good, but not quite as compatible withoil paint as Turpentine. Slower drying than Turpentine. Not as aggresive asolvent as Turpentine. It is a distillation of petroleum.

Hope that is of some help.


l

One if the biggest issues I have been having with my testing has been getting the grain to pop in a similar way to when using tru oil, I did receive samples of Osmo oil , but not in the gloss that I requested, however I have started testing with their satin sample, I also got dent a sample from Whittle Waxes of the Treatex gloss, I can't get anything approaching a gloss with either product, and the nesesstiy to stop sanding at around 220 grit (I did go to 320 though) did cause the finish to display visible scratches after trying to buff out the finish after applying. I am also yet to witness any water restsance from any of my samples with approaching a week of curing in good temperature and low humidity. I still get a water mark even after a few seconds of a drop of water on either sample.
Maybe my application method is off. I have been applying with a rag or dripping onto the furface and working itin with a white norton pad on a sanding backer on my drill, then using the same pad to buff remaining excess after wiping off most excess with a blue shop towel.
On the bamboo chopsticks that I used to stir the Treatex I have a much more visible film that seems to be getting very hard and glossy, but when removing the excess from the test panels I am left with a very low lustre that is basically the wood.
I have tried sanding in second and third coats with progressively finer grits and although this improves the sheen somewhat I don't know if this is removing all the protection I am supposed to be applying.
Pore filling is another issue, with the stabilised burls I am working with some of the voids cracks and pores wont really hold a timbermate type filler (i may need to add some water to the filler for better adhesion) and really these larger areas at least should be filled with epoxy to help stabilize the flaw, as the thickness of the box can be as little as 3mm and as much as 8.5mm.
I willpost some pictures of the test panells when work eases, and keep experimenting.
thank you Angela I have purchased a sample pot of the bathroom Oil this evening and will add that to my testing.
Here are a few pics of the latest piece I have made Red dyed and stabilised Tazzy Oak burl, Z_poxy pore fill and grain pop followed by around 10 coats of Tru oil.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1454/26514353675_51662e36db_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GoYZAT)IMG_5323Baz-Mod (https://flic.kr/p/GoYZAT) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1490/25911492963_0dbe9e15fe_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FtHb7F)IMG_5335Baz-Mod (https://flic.kr/p/FtHb7F) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1686/26514353495_8dd4b143f1_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GoYZxM)IMG_5329Baz-Mod (https://flic.kr/p/GoYZxM) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1671/26241515120_ebdbd8dcff_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FYSCcS)IMG_5295Baz-Mod (https://flic.kr/p/FYSCcS) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1692/25911490943_a3aef9df34_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FtHavR)IMG_5298Baz-Mod (https://flic.kr/p/FtHavR) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1556/26514351955_1551331357_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GoYZ6e)IMG_5301Baz-Mod (https://flic.kr/p/GoYZ6e) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1486/26514352265_aebd0df394_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GoYZbz)IMG_5306Baz-Mod (https://flic.kr/p/GoYZbz) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1496/26514352745_c901b3ba20_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GoYZjR)IMG_5315Baz-Mod (https://flic.kr/p/GoYZjR) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1633/26448251481_daf06c341e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Gi9cHT)IMG_5318Baz-Mod (https://flic.kr/p/Gi9cHT) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1457/25909436804_0c11621b6d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FtwCTE)IMG_5320Baz-Mod (https://flic.kr/p/FtwCTE) by Thomas Studios (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasstudiosphotography/), on Flickr

[Arron]

I have to admit that if I was making these,and if I was actually trying to make some money out of selling them, then I'd be taking them to my nearest spray painting shop and saying 'what can you do with these'.

I don't think the route you are pursuing with various oil products will give you anything like the robustness you need - and you are going to see most of your profit disappear with labour-intensive products

Cheers
Arron

[Studiovape]

I have to admit that if I was making these,and if I was actually trying to make some money out of selling them, then I'd be taking them to my nearest spray painting shop and saying 'what can you do with these'.

I don't think the route you are pursuing with various oil products will give you anything like the robustness you need - and you are going to see most of your profit disappear with labour-intensive products

Cheers
Arron

Hi Arron thanks for your response, and although I understand your sentiment, let me just say that firstly,although this may have been a partially financially driven project at the start, most of my diminishing returns have been due to compensating for delays and failures by local third parties when attempting to outsource parts of the project, and this is not a mistake I intend to repeat lightly.
If I was only driven by the financial gain I would work more hours at my photography business.
My small home town of Gympie is very limited in these kind of resources, and I would like to be able to achieve 99% of the product by myself.
I will consider your suggestion however especially seeing as you have reworded it to sound less scathing :U I just don't like my chances in Gympie.

[LGS]

Hi SV,

I haven't yet suggested Organoil Hard Burnishing Oil. (HBO) This is a highly durable oil, made primarily from Tung Oil. It is easy to apply and use.
You apply the oil to the surface until it appears wet. (usually about 3 applications. (Don't skimp on the oil, but don't over apply either.)this should take about 20 minutes or thereabouts. You may need to find the appropriate time to suit your environment. Use a random orbital sander to burnish the oil. Given the size of your pieces, you might like to try using a rotary tool (Dremel etc.) to apply the friction. Sand up from 120g to at least 2000g and probably more in your case. I sand to 4000, but higher grits are available. Because the oil polymerizes when heated, you get a very durable finish that doesn't stain, doesn't mark and is safe to handle. You could try approaching Organoil for a sample. Given your position in the Australian landscape, maybe they'll be amenable to this idea.

[Studiovape]

Hi SV,

I haven't yet suggested Organoil Hard Burnishing Oil. (HBO) This is a highly durable oil, made primarily from Tung Oil. It is easy to apply and use.
You apply the oil to the surface until it appears wet. (usually about 3 applications. (Don't skimp on the oil, but don't over apply either.)this should take about 20 minutes or thereabouts. You may need to find the appropriate time to suit your environment. Use a random orbital sander to burnish the oil. Given the size of your pieces, you might like to try using a rotary tool (Dremel etc.) to apply the friction. Sand up from 120g to at least 2000g and probably more in your case. I sand to 4000, but higher grits are available. Because the oil polymerizes when heated, you get a very durable finish that doesn't stain, doesn't mark and is safe to handle. You could try approaching Organoil for a sample. Given your position in the Australian landscape, maybe they'll be amenable to this idea.
Hi LGS, thanks for your reply, I have read about HBO, but what concerned we was how to achieve the desired burnishing friction on the areas of the piece that are not flat, or to be more precise the 0.9mm recess for the button pannel and the dovetail lips and grooves, without removing excess material on finely machined sharp edges. Maybe you have a suggestion regarding this aspect?
Cheer
Sv

[LGS]

Hi again,

You could try using a high grit, the one you finish with and then buff those parts of the item which you cant sand.
Another option is to use a soft sander backing plate. Soft backing pads on the sander plate will allow you to sand as normal, except that the softer backing pad will allow you to sand over the edge of the face you're sanding. Both for the dry and wet sanding.

The more I think about it, the more I think it will work.

Regards

Rob

[Studiovape]

Hi again,

You could try using a high grit, the one you finish with and then buff those parts of the item which you cant sand.
Another option is to use a soft sander backing plate. Soft backing pads on the sander plate will allow you to sand as normal, except that the softer backing pad will allow you to sand over the edge of the face you're sanding. Both for the dry and wet sanding.

The more I think about it, the more I think it will work.

Regards

Rob
Hi Rob. Thanks for getting back to me so promptly. I see what you are saying about buffing with a non abrasive material to get the heat and friction going on the edges I want to keep sharp and the recessed areas I can't reach with sanding.my small Dremel type polishing mops/fibre cylinders should work for the button panel recess. On the Organ oil application sheet it says 2-3 weeks for finish to fully cure before water will not mar the surface. Is this your experience and any advice on possible methods to reduce final cure time? Bearing in mind I have a UV during cabinet.
Thanks again for your help
cheers
Bernie

[Studiovape]

So I have some organoil HBO on the way, still interested to know about cure time and possible speeding up of curing. Anyone?

[LGS]

The makers say 3 weeks. This is because they use a slight but significant variation in method. Using their method, you can have oil resurface a week or two after first application. If you follow my method without adding your own "sure it'll work" adaptations, you'll won't end up with this problem. There's no cure other than to use a ROS with paper towel on the pad, then go over the table and keep going 'till the oil doesn't come through anymore. (as you can imagine, this could take some time.) You will end up with the same problem. (Oil resurfacing after time.) Using my method will give you a mirror finish, with no extra problems. Curing is pretty much immediate,(this is why you use friction in the method, it polymerizes the oil in the wood) but give it a day and you should be fine. I have tables that were done nearly 10 years ago and they are still exactly like they were back then.
Tell you what. I'll prepare,
sand and oil a piece of figured timber and send it to you. Then you can play with it.

Regards,

Rob

[Studiovape]

The makers say 3 weeks. This is because they use a slight but significant variation in method. Using their method, you can have oil resurface a week or two after first application. If you follow my method without adding your own "sure it'll work" adaptations, you'll won't end up with this problem. There's no cure other than to use a ROS with paper towel on the pad, then go over the table and keep going 'till the oil doesn't come through anymore. (as you can imagine, this could take some time.) You will end up with the same problem. (Oil resurfacing after time.) Using my method will give you a mirror finish, with no extra problems. Curing is pretty much immediate,(this is why you use friction in the method, it polymerizes the oil in the wood) but give it a day and you should be fine. I have tables that were done nearly 10 years ago and they are still exactly like they were back then.
Tell you what. I'll prepare,
sand and oil a piece of figured timber and send it to you. Then you can play with it.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Rob,thanks for the extra info, and I would be very grateful to take you up on your offer.
Pm incoming.

[AngelaPetruzzi]

It would be interesting to hear how you went with all your testing. Re the Livos Linn, due to the nature of the oil, it does take some weeks to fully harden and cure and unfortunately, there are no shortcuts...but I think you will be pleased with the gloss level.

[Studiovape]

It would be interesting to hear how you went with all your testing. Re the Livos Linn, due to the nature of the oil, it does take some weeks to fully harden and cure and unfortunately, there are no shortcuts...but I think you will be pleased with the gloss level.

Hi Angela, I did write a long reply to your question, but the internet ate it before I could submit it, a summary was that I am experimenting with the Linn oil and so far not having much luck. Following the instructions I am not getting a gloss finish on the third coat with a day in between coats. I am going to try two days between coats, but that along with a long cure time is leading me to become a little discouraged.
I was unable to get a satin or gloss sheen with either the Tratex gloss or the Osmo saitn , so it could be that although the Peppercorn Burl I am testing with is stabilised it may be extremely thirsty and taking much longer for the coats to dry.
Nothing so far is beating tru oil for it's fast drying easy pore filing ability and final luster. These experimental products were hopefully to save me time and reduce labour while giving a good water, heat and abrasion resistance to rival or preferably beat Tru Oil, while giving minimal build up, I am yet to be convinced, however I will try a new batch of tests soon.
I have not been able to find any interweb articles of folks using Linn Bathroom oil yet , so I only have the instructions on the Livos site and no real world tips and advice of it's application on different woods and how to achieve a gloss result.
Another significant issue with all these is the low grit sanding requirements, and with figured burl there is just no way to hide 320 or even 600 grit sanding marks with such a low build system.
I am definitely looking forward to giving the Hard Burnishing Oil a go as Rob has suggested.

[Ausworkshop]

I'm interested to see how you go, thanks for sharing. I love your work, trying to figure out how you get such a fine neat cut for the sliding lid pieces. Especially in burl. Well done!
Trying to find the ideal finish for small items like these may become a life time pursuit, I've been experimenting for over 12 years and still trying new things. My cupboard is full of tins of expensive lessons learned.
On another note, has anyone heard if Organoil are closing down (again)? I hope not, I use their decking oil all the time, recently noticed organoil's website is no longer working and Google maps says it's closed down permanently.

[LGS]

I would be inclined to agree with you, that there is some hardening that still goes on. But that point may or may not reflect the point at which the finish is fully fills it's function.

Regards,

Rob

[Studiovape]

I'm interested to see how you go, thanks for sharing. I love your work, trying to figure out how you get such a fine neat cut for the sliding lid pieces. Especially in burl. Well done!
Trying to find the ideal finish for small items like these may become a life time pursuit, I've been experimenting for over 12 years and still trying new things. My cupboard is full of tins of expensive lessons learned.
On another note, has anyone heard if Organoil are closing down (again)? I hope not, I use their decking oil all the time, recently noticed organoil's website is no longer working and Google maps says it's closed down permanently.
thanks for the compliment.
The dovetail cuts on the main box are cut with a router bit in a mini mill at 2200 RPM slowly advancing the table. The lids/doors Re cut on the homemade router table with the lid double sided taped to a template, again slowly advancing past the bit. The blocks are stabilised with "Cactus Juice" this helps somewhat with tearout etc.

[Studiovape]

I would be inclined to agree with you, that there is some hardening that still goes on. But that point may or may not reflect the point at which the finish is fully fills it's function.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Rob, I'm confused as to which statement you are agreeing with here.

[LGS]

Actually, I'm not sure that I know what I mean.This thing with oils is getting out of hand. As far as I can tell and from my own experience and hands on research, HBO is dry and functional almost as soon as it has been finished. I would ask people who are interested in this to please read this. (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/cabots-danish-oil-formula-change-166948) It took a while and cost me a bit, but I'm happy that the results are real. So if any one doesn't believe these are the answers I got and that Hard burnishing Oil doesn't work, do it yourself and see. Or, if you want, you can come over to my cave and I'll show you. It'll take about an hour and a half and you can bring your own piece of timber if you want. But picking a random number for the time an oil takes to cure just isn't right. Oh and you can see some stuff that's been done with HBO. Some pieces were done now 8-9 years ago.

Regards,

Rob