Strip built kayak - Bead and cove

[Bips12]

Hi

I am wanting to build a strip built kayak with bead and cove technique. I am having problems sourcing someone who can provide the timber with the bead and cove. I'm in Sydney does anyone know who may help. I'm looking at WRC an Pawlonia. I've tried Sydney wood and got no response. Local timber supplies, they thought it was to hard for them to get a good finish when they manufacture.

Cheers

[Stewie D]

Maybe try a joinery shop and see how much they'd charge you.
Or failing that or anyone else, just buy the timber and put it on yourself with a router mounted in a router table.

Stewie

[Claw Hama]

Have you tried Trend Timber? They might be able to point you in the right direction even if they can't
help you with it.

[Nanigai]

Here (http://www.paulowniatimber.com.au/marine.php)is where I got my strips from Bips12 although mine is not bead and cove (B&C) which I will explain below.
There may be other suppliers but I found these guys really helpful. They have rough sawn timber or cut to size strips in both Pawlonia or WRC but not B&C only square edge. No this was wrong, they do have B&C I just noticed although at a price premium compared to DAR.

Check out other posts in the Canoe & Kayak forums by searching "strip built" or "stripper" (no, not that kind :D) and in particular posts by ANewhouse. He has built lots of strippers and some of his posts will give you an insight in to the pros and cons of square versus bead and cove. I won't go into it as I have not built one yet but the discussions I read here switched me from B&C to square edge, planed to suit as you go with a hand held block plane.
I purchased matching B&C router bits intending to do my own but will sell these at some stage as I wont be using them now.
Best of luck, Cheers, Ian

[Bips12]

Thanks Stewie and Claw
I don't have a router or table and have never used one, but am thinking this might be the best option.... As I am not getting very far.
I have tried Danias, Chippendale restorations (as I passed by and they looked like they made plenty of Skirting boards and the likes of new stuff out of Cedar) and Intetrim timber (to which I haven't got a response from yet.)
Not sure who I can even buy the wood from. I guess I go back to Sydney wood or Danias or ???
I'll try Trend tomorrow. Fingers crossed....

Cheers
Bips

[Bips12]

Thanks Nanigai
I'll try them as well. They look good. Not sure about the shipping costs though.

Cheers
Bips

[Christos]

You also have Rallis Timber located in Marrickville.

Rallis Timber Sydney - timber building supplies and milling specialist (http://www.rallistimber.com.au)

I don't have anything to do with them other than being an occasional customer.

[anewhouse]

You may have sorted your supply problem by now. I have been away for the last month, so couldn't respond earlier.
I have always bought my Paulownia as 25mm thick rough sawn planks. The width doesn't matter; anything from 5mm to 150mm wide would do. I dress both faces then rip the strips off the edge.
I used to dress the boards to 19mm thick because that corresponded to the 3/4" mentioned in all the American literature. Now i the faces have cleaned up by 20mm or even 22mm, I stop turning perfectly good wood into shavings and used strips that width. If you have hard chines you will need to rip a few strips to get around the sharp curve. You will need to do that whether your strips are 19mm or 22mm.
What was the edge of the board has now become the face of the strips and these can remain rough sawn as you will be sanding them when the stripping is complete.
I use a bevelling technique similar to the one described here Hand Beveling wood strips for wood kayak canoe tablesaw set-up safety (http://www.laughingloon.com/shoptips3.html)
I don't create the 3 degree bevel he mentions at the start.
Bevelling can be quicker and neater than B&C. Some of the professional builders in the USA bevel.
Depending on what tools you have access to, you can buy rough sawn planks as I do, or you can just get the faces dressed if you have access to a table saw or band saw, but don't have a thicknesser.

[Sumbloak]

I like the motto at the bottom of that linked page: "May you always be able to count to ten on your fingers."

I suppose it should add "without re-using any fingers". :D

Anyway, I like the idea of bevelling more than the idea of B&C myself. Saves a lot of wood and milling time. I'd rather work with a block planer than a shaper.

[Bips12]

Thanks Guys
I bought some Pawlownia from where Narigai recommended. They were very quick and helpful and could deliver quite long lengths cheaply to Sydney. The only problem with it, is that they say they have a bead and cove, but it is a token gesture of one. It should be 3mm radius for 6mm thick. There's is just a hint of one. About 1mm deep.

[Nanigai]

Sorry to hear the B&C weren't up to scratch Bips12. :o
Are they useable as they are or are you going to talk to the supplier about replacing them?

Cheers, Ian

[Bips12]

Hi Iain
I haven't decided yet.

Cheers
Nicky

[Sumbloak]

Thanks Guys
I bought some Pawlownia from where Narigai recommended. They were very quick and helpful and could deliver quite long lengths cheaply to Sydney. The only problem with it, is that they say they have a bead and cove, but it is a token gesture of one. It should be 3mm radius for 6mm thick. There's is just a hint of one. About 1mm deep.
Ok, but is this really a problem? You only need enough of a radius to make the planks sit without gaps, and they aren't going to be at 45 degrees to each other. Probably only a few degrees over most of the hull, so why waste timber and create fragile feather edges by going to a full semicircle?

If you're worried about the strips self-aligning, they won't necessarily do that all by themselves even with a full semicircle B&C. It's common to have to use temporary whatsits to pull strips into alignment.

[Bips12]

Hi Sumbloak
I haven't started making So I can't say if this will really be a problem. But just playing with them it looks like it will create quite large gaps if they are placed with this amount of radius. I will either have to plane one edge or create a deeper bead and cove to close the gap. Looks quite large a few mm. Looking at kayaking websites, they get quite particular with having the bead and cove.

[anewhouse]

Looking at kayaking websites, they get quite particular with having the bead and cove.

Do you mean that the sites you have been looking at insist that you need bead and cove? I'm not sure if that is what you meant.

If that is the case, then you have been looking at the wrong websites. A lot of builders, including some well respected professional and amateur builders prefer not to use bead and cove.

It seems you have sorted out the timber supply problem and the strip supply problem and that it is only the bead and cove that is causing issues. If all else fails, you could just plane a bevel on both edges of the strips. They will be slightly narrower, but you can get perfect joints with bevelled edges.

[labr@]

... it looks like it will create quite large gaps if they are placed with this amount of radius. I will either have to plane one edge or create a deeper bead and cove to close the gap.

These statements suggest that you are expecting the bead and cove to hide gaps rather than eliminate them. The strips should be touching along the full length and width and this applies with any radius bead and cove as well as bevelled strips.

Before you go any further it would be a very good idea to post some photos of what you mean so you can get the best advice.

Just for the record I'm another supporter of bevelled strips.