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View Full Version : How to sharpen tungsten carbide --home made tool tips ---



ACACIA
7th April 2016, 06:13 AM
Anyone have a simple /economical idea ----how to sharpen tungsten tipped tool( diy)

I am told ---Diamond ???? diamond coated file ? or diamond stone ?

as l live in the African bush ---- I would welcome a method of sharpening n old tungsten
tipped drll bit ----I have mounted on along wood handle-----to bore out these xtraordinarily
tough Zulu hardwoods---they defy all hi-carbonsteel / spindle gouges----blunt or burnt rapildly

when hollowing bowls etc

appreciate-------no idea ----diamond grinders? never seen such luxuries!
thankyou------ACACIA

Chief Tiff
7th April 2016, 08:45 AM
Diamond is definitely the way to go with carbide.

Maybe a folding sharpener like (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Double-Sided-Folded-Pocket-Diamond-Knife-Sharpening-Stone-Sharpener-Multifunction-Knives-Grinder-Sharpener-Tool/32587219067.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.299.yanpb5&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_5_10034_1020020_507_10032_10020_10017_10005_10006_10021_10022_9942_10018_10019,searchweb201603_6&btsid=de909c88-1184-4f9d-8ee1-809520bf21c3) this will be suitable?

BobL
7th April 2016, 09:02 AM
A 6" diamond lapping wheel will cost you about $10 from THK.hk (Hong Kong Diamonds) thk.hk (http://www.thk.hk/online-cart.php?cid=36&sid=39)
They are so cheap you can buy a couple of different grits while you are att it

I nicked one of the coarser grit wheels from SWMBO's lapidary work stash (she almost has the full grit range) and mounted it on the side of a CBN wheel like this.
It can't be seen but the wheel has a 3" diameter x 20 mm thick steel backing plate to stiffen the wheel as the wheel is quite thin.
I though the backing plate might be a bit too small but it has proved more than adequate
When sharpening TC on diamond you don't use much pressure anyway.
Aside from TC lathe tooling I sharpen old masonry bits and use these to drill holes in chainsaw bars.

BTW that is a variable speed (3 phase) grinder but I typically run the diamond wheel anywhere between 3000 to 3600 RPM

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=329134&stc=1

hughie
7th April 2016, 02:21 PM
Anyone have a simple /economical idea ----how to sharpen tungsten tipped tool( diy)

I am told ---Diamond ???? diamond coated file ? or diamond stone ?

as l live in the African bush ---- I would welcome a method of sharpening n old tungsten
tipped drll bit ----I have mounted on along wood handle-----to bore out these xtraordinarily
tough Zulu hardwoods---they defy all hi-carbonsteel / spindle gouges----blunt or burnt rapildly

when hollowing bowls etc

appreciate-------no idea ----diamond grinders? never seen such luxuries!
thankyou------ACACIA

There a couple of ways. This one is probably the cheapest Cutting Tools - Abrasives & Grinding - Millers Tooling, Brisbane, Australia (http://www.millerstooling.com.au/Cutting-Tools-Abrasives-and-Grinding.asp)
Fairly coarse you can use the this green wheel for the major work and then go to What BobL has mentioned to get the best edge.

dai sensei
7th April 2016, 08:53 PM
Diamond is definitely the way to go with carbide.

Maybe a folding sharpener like (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Double-Sided-Folded-Pocket-Diamond-Knife-Sharpening-Stone-Sharpener-Multifunction-Knives-Grinder-Sharpener-Tool/32587219067.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.299.yanpb5&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_5_10034_1020020_507_10032_10020_10017_10005_10006_10021_10022_9942_10018_10019,searchweb201603_6&btsid=de909c88-1184-4f9d-8ee1-809520bf21c3) this will be suitable?

I use one similar and it works a treat. Just 3-4 passes in the top held flat does the trick.

BobL
7th April 2016, 09:01 PM
There a couple of ways. This one is probably the cheapest Cutting Tools - Abrasives & Grinding - Millers Tooling, Brisbane, Australia (http://www.millerstooling.com.au/Cutting-Tools-Abrasives-and-Grinding.asp)
Fairly coarse you can use the this green wheel for the major work and then go to What BobL has mentioned to get the best edge.

I'm using the 180 grit diamond on the grinder and for some turning tools 600 grit on SWMBO's lapping rig.
For TC drill bits the 180 diamond alone is good enough.

ACACIA
9th April 2016, 02:33 AM
Apologies for sounding ignorant ---but diamonds I am told ----can only be used to grind /reshape
sharpen tungsten carbide ?---correct?

As I live in remote Zululand ---how can I sharpen my DIY tungsten bits

withoutpricy diamond grindstones --??( have noidea what a diamond shpener looks like!!
( I am struggling to type on this forum -----something wrng ??)anyone lelse having typin prbs??

jhovel
9th April 2016, 04:13 AM
Hi Acadia.
What kind of tungsten carbide tips do you intend sharpening?

It is true that diamond sharpening wheels or files or plates are the best way to sharpen tungsen tips. But there are also "Green silicon carbide" grinding wheels which sharpen/shape tungsten carbide. We find that they are now more expensive than diamond wheels form China.

Here are a couple of links to see what the look like and what they cost:
Green wheel (wear fairly quickly with tungsten): CGW 6"x1"x1" Grinding Wheel Green Silicon Carbide 120 Grit | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/181815135088)
For rough/fast shaping: New Bowl Shape Alloy Diamond Electroplated Coated Grinding Wheel 100 10 5 20 35 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/181609754325) there are also MUCH cheaper ones that also work well but don;t last as long.
For fine sharpening: 5" 125mm Durable Diamond Coated Parallel Grinding Wheel Hole 32mm | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/171336275969)
Hand filing: Useful Assorted 10 Pcs Set 180mm 7" inch Diamond Coated File Files Grit 120 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/191585573373)
Honing: 1pc Professional Thin Diamond Knife Sharpening Stone Whetstone Grit 400 S3 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/361507169360) or: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261732302350

Hope that helps a little.

FenceFurniture
9th April 2016, 08:14 AM
( I am struggling to type on this forum -----something wrng ??)anyone lelse having typin prbs??London to a brick you are using Internet Explorer - use another browser and you should be ok.

Paul39
9th April 2016, 12:13 PM
Acacia,

A "green wheel" has been used for sharpening carbide for years before diamond wheels were available.

https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=green+wheel+for+sharpening+carbide&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

When you get to a town with a machine shop, talk to them about what is needed.

A credit card sized diamond sharpener would work but would be slow.

I have one of these, which I prefer over the ones with the perforations.

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/DIAMOND26.html

The dust from grinding carbide is bad for your lungs. This is more for industrial use, but will give you an idea of the risks.

Health and Safety Risks of Grinding Tungsten Carbide and Other Tool Tipping Materials.


(http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pages/carbide-parts/grinding-carbide-health-and-safety-risks.html)
I have used Firefox for years for a browser with no trouble:

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/

ACACIA
10th April 2016, 08:18 PM
So very grateful---
will follow your sage advice ----
many thanks ---now I have options --diamond stones /green wheels
--even diamond coated --- hand files! --finally I can attempt to hollow this ironwood!--without further injury--!!
appreciate -------the research / help----awesome!
ACACIA

ACACIA
10th April 2016, 09:35 PM
Many thanks for the info /research

my tool tips are sadly rather primitive ----home made lathe --DIY turningtools

all made from old files --truck spring vanadium steel cut /ground /heated forged to various shapes

( don't have the luxury of hi tech tools --living very isolated on a pension )
but great pleasure ---Is derived from primitive tools ---I get results that are surprising --and pretty
dangerous ---!
but --its this forum that gets my standards back to civilised norms-

carbide tipped ? --made from large twist masonary drill bits ---mounted on sturdy handles
-- yes ---very crude --but ffective --till this African Leadwood/ Iron wood /E bony ETC
renders all very blunt!

but now I can access any diamond sharpening appliances ----thanks to this forum
really appreciate ---
here ,s FOTO I managed to attach ---
regards
ACACIA

Bushmiller
10th April 2016, 10:18 PM
Acacia

Good to see you improvising and making something useful from nothing. Looks like you are producing wonderful stuff.

I have used diamond cup wheels for sharpening tungsten. I will try to take some pix tomorrow, but this is the type of device. You have to make up a crude arbour (I use bolts and two nuts with the head of the bolt cut off) so you can mount it in a drill of drill press. Consequently it is advantageous to select a cup disc that has a hole to suit a bolt you already have.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/125mm-Side-Plain-Diamond-Sanding-Grinding-Wheel-Grit-150-Cutter-Grinder-/141854340440?hash=item21072d7558:g:CYcAAOSw1S9WcQoR

4'' Precision Resin 180 Grit Diamond Rotary Grinding Round Wheel Disc CUP BW1 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-Precision-Resin-180-Grit-Diamond-Rotary-Grinding-Round-Wheel-Disc-Cup-BW1-/111374306318?hash=item19ee6d0c0e:g:DggAAOSwnDxUl7in)

I have sharpened masonry bits and circular saw blades with these contraptions, but only rip blades. The multi angles for crosscut blades were a bit beyond my capabilities. You would be able to sharpen router bits too, although I just do those by hand on a diamond plate.

These type of cutting discs need a cleaning stick to remove the clogged particles. It looks like a pencil eraser but is harder and a different material.

Regards
Paul

soundman
11th April 2016, 02:44 PM
If ya talking quick and dirty, carbide masonry drills can quite sucessfully be sharpened on ordinary grinding wheels ...... it is tough on the wheels though.

Most people don't realise that masonry bits require sharpening for their intended purpose.

I have also in the past sparpened masonry bits to get thru hardened steels or to drill thru mixed materials.

Looking down the local tool shop .... they are now selling factory made sharp carbide drill bits .... they are targeted the the biluder boys as a universal drill bit.

I sharpen my carbide drill bits when my grinder wheel needs cleaning or flattening ...... two birds with one stone.

cheers

Bushmiller
11th April 2016, 02:53 PM
Acacia

I may be going off on a tangent here as I know you have made reference to home made cutting tools, but this is the way in which have sharpened saw blades. Very simple indeed: Crude even:

376453376454

The flat disc is 80mm diametre and the cup disc 100mm. The flat disc is easier to fit in tight spaces where there are more teeth on smaller blades.

The saw needs to spin (make that turn as spin infers speed) so a block of wood is used with vaguely circular depressions to allow the blade to sit flat and a suitable spindle to hold the blade in place. This one was set up to accommodate three different sizes.

376456376455

You need to hold the drill in position and be able to move the drill in and out of the cutting position as the blade is rotated between each tooth.

376457376458

The clamps looks like these. I have acquired two of them over the years, but I don't really know where they came from.

376460376461376459

If you are sharpening drills by hand, you don't need any of this and could just clamp the drill in a vice. A rest of some description would of course be helpful too.

Regards
Paul

ACACIA
11th April 2016, 08:48 PM
Thankyou so much Paul ---
Just when was about to ask HOW ---these Disc& "cup " diamond sharpening tools ---
could be mounted or attached to std bench gringer shaft --or drill chuck (no tang or shaft visible on Ebay)

Then ---voila ! ---your very clear fotos ----- solved the mystery attachment prob I had ---
now -its clear---as a bell!

Very grateful -so I can now easiy sharpen tungsten masonary tips & even tungsten tipped rotary saw blades!!
( I assumed the blunt tungsten tipped tools /blades were disposable after hard use !

learnt a lot about re---using ----re cycling !!!
appreciate enormously all your superb help & great fotos!
will post more fotos of African ironwoods -----successfully turned into my rther amateur o
bjects
aplogies --=-=yping has gone haywire -----mst change my server !!
regards ---- ACACIA

ACACIA
12th April 2016, 07:39 PM
Hi jhovel

bought a ceramic diamond coated "cutting " 4.5 inch segmented disc----all the local hardware stocked

but --to my dismay ---the newly sharpened tungsten 18 mm drill tip---(see fotos)
rfused to cut or bore hardwood -----despite many ngles / profiles----

this disc sharpens tungsten well -----
bt the DIY tool ---cannot cut ny wood ----only dust appears!
please can u stdy fotos ---and advise??

many thanks -- ACACIA

ACACIA
12th April 2016, 07:47 PM
Apologies for typos ---server probs

forgot t add ----any other hi-carbon tool I made from old bastard files
-cut this RED IVORY hardwood quite easily

yet --the tungsten tip failed ----even tho razor sharp thmbnail profile awas ground
all angles tried ---50 --60 --70 80 degrees bevel angles --painstakingly ground
----possibly this masonary bit has--- Weird tungsten tip? obviously not working

can you advise???
appreciate--- ACACIA

soundman
12th April 2016, 09:52 PM
I think what you have there will be making a scraping cut.

To make a tool that actually cuts, you have to have a frontal angle and a relief angle on the back of the edge.

When we shapen twist drills the frontal angle is provided by the twisted spiral, we mostly sharpen only the relief angle on the back of the edge.

It will be near imposible to put propper "cutting" geometry ( that will produce curly shavings)on a carbide tipped masonry bit........ though a scraping cut will work to some extent.

cheers

Paul39
13th April 2016, 02:19 AM
Acacia,

I see on the middle photo of the larger drill the right side has a bevel that will push the drill away from the wood if used as a lathe tool.

Grind the tip in a slight curve looking from the top, with a 70 to 80 degree angle going back from the tip looking at it from the side. Get the top as smooth as possible. This will make a scraper.

See: http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/images/WT/articles/BasicTurningTools/gallery/BeginnerTools-11-frenchc.jpg

You can make the curve however it suits you.

I have a scraper made from a piece of 11mm square steel from a junk pile that is ground flat on top with a rounded tip, from the side it is ground back about 70 - 80 degrees. It will hog off wood just as well as my $140 high speed steel bowl gouge, but does not last as long.

If you are getting good results with your repurposed files, I would keep using them. When turning, I turn on the grinder, touch up whatever tool I am using, and keep turning and sharpening. The grinder stays on the whole time. A quick swipe on the grinder does not take off much steel, and if the tool is home made and near free, what does it matter.

If there is a lumber mill that you can get to that planes finished lumber, see if you could get some used up high speed steel planer blades to make into heavy scrapers. I bought 4 12 inch X 3 inch X 3/8 inch thick blades at auction for $15. I ground an arc on the end and dulled the sharp side. I use it unhandled for finish scraping. It is heavy and stable and cuts off tissue paper thin shavings.

ACACIA
13th April 2016, 02:24 AM
Can the above masonary drill ---tungsten tip
be ground via diamond disc --into a bowl gouge or simple round nose scraper?

many sharpeningattempt ave all failed----
ca someone send fotos on how this can be ground or shaped ?

see fotos--- a sharpened masonary twist dril std tip --- refuses to cut even soft wet wood

vs ordinary bowl gouge --old bastard file ----which cuts a cove very nicely!
can anyone advise ? with fotos ?

appreciate -----(forgive typing ----server failing again)

fotos rfuse to upload-----will keep trying ---soemethin wrng?

Paul39
13th April 2016, 02:33 AM
Scrapers.

3. Scrapers Archives - Thompson Tools (http://thompsonlathetools.com/product-category/scrapers/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRQz-cnY2gQ

Shows grind well: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dRQz-cnY2gQ/maxresdefault.jpg

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/100152-img.jpg

BobL
13th April 2016, 03:26 AM
Can the above masonary drill ---tungsten tip
be ground via diamond disc --into a bowl gouge or simple round nose scraper?

many sharpeningattempt ave all failed----
ca someone send fotos on how this can be ground or shaped ?

see fotos--- a sharpened masonary twist dril std tip --- refuses to cut even soft wet wood


I can understand why it wont cut as it will be the completely wrong profile.

I suppose it is possible to shape the but but it will take a lot of work.
The steel holding the tip in the drill will also need to be ground away and general grinders that grind TC don't like grinding steel.

ACACIA
13th April 2016, 06:15 PM
ok -many thanks for all the superb help /advice

it now appears tungstencarbide inserts you all showed me last year ----
were only used for scrapers ---not hardwood bowl gouges----

forgive my rather idioitic attempts to shape a bowl gouging profile from a mason drill!

its obviously not going to even scratch this hardwood !! diamond disc---or not
back to home made spring steel /bastard file tool profiles--at least these cut for a while ---the burn out
appreciate all the great advice-----am now much wiser

regards ACACIA

Bushmiller
13th April 2016, 07:07 PM
Acacia

Just be wary of using files for turning tools. Firstly they are extremely brittle and must be annealed (softened and cooled very slowly) to work them. Tn all the teeth of the file must be removed as they will have set up potential lines of weakness in the steel. This is in fact quite a laborious process to grind the steel back to a smooth surface.

There have been some horrific accidents with turning tools made from files, which have not be adequately prepared for the stresses of turning tools. I think your spring steel (vehicle leaf springs are an excellent source and cheap too) is a much better bet and I have a number made from them. Admittedly, you will have to re-sharpen more often, but you will have your eyesight and no gouges out of you body instead of the wood.

Regards
Paul

ACACIA
14th April 2016, 05:29 AM
Thanks Paul
by the way --I found websites --showing tungsten disc-- bolt on---inserts of all shapes ( square round /diamond shped)

another woodturner site -sez --tungsten varies --even goes blunt---he prefers HSS steel !

another video --( usa) U TUBE --- shows afella --rapidly gouging a bow hollow incrediblyfast -with square tungsten
tipped gouge!!!

so many contradictions?

but I will try to find a small tungsten round insert ---to see hw long it lasts on IRONWOOD!!
( regrds ACACIA

ACACIA
15th April 2016, 12:48 AM
Another attempt at attaching fotos ---of TC insert discs

dai sensei
15th April 2016, 09:32 AM
Just a warning, motor driven sharpening takes a lot of metal easily, but those little TC bits only take a wipe to sharpen (hence why I do it by hand with 3-4 wipes) so be careful not to take too much.

Paul39
15th April 2016, 12:16 PM
Another attempt at attaching fotos ---of TC insert discs

I have one of the Easy finisher tools that uses the round carbide cutter you show. I bought it for $90 (used, new was 140 at the time) in a weak moment and had just gotten paid for a job. It is a scraper and it is claimed to never need sharpening, only rotate and keep cutting, then throw it away. I use it for hollowing hard abrasive wood, locust. I resharpen by wetting the flat diamond plate with water and putting the carbide disk face down and rotating in small circles. When dull it does not cut very well.

It does not cut as clean as my high speed steel or carbon steel scrapers. I use them for finishing.

The round carbide cutter is $17.99 in the US.

Easy Price List: http://www.easywoodtools.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/copy-ewt_pricespec_retail_1.5.15.pdf

I don't know if you think in imperial or metric. I think in imperial and calculate for Aussie readers.

Your best bet for longer lasting sharpness at a reasonable price might be to get some 3/8 and 5/8 inch square high speed steel bar from what we call a machine shop. I think the British and Aussies call them engineers shops. HSS will last longer between sharpenings and comes hard out of the box, no blacksmithing required.

Meanwhile keep doing what you are doing. You make nice turnings. Hard, tough, abrasive wood is what it is, and very pretty when finished.

I can't post photos of my stuff because they are on my windows computer which is indisposed at the moment. I am using a Linux Ubuntu computer and have not learned how to import photos or adjust them with the different photo software provided.

The photos on the sites in my post #22 above are the angles I grind my scrapers. They should come up if you click on the sites.

With very hard tough wood a small tool, 3/8 to 1/2 inch wide with a round tip should cut OK pushing straight in. A wider one will take more force to bite and might just slide over the wood.

Phil Hansen
17th April 2016, 12:52 PM
Another attempt at attaching fotos ---of TC insert discs

Howzit,
You can get all these carbide inserts at Mr Woodturner in Randburg.
Got a website and great service.
Lots of advice on making you own tool with these tips out 'there'
Cheers
Phil

ACACIA
18th April 2016, 05:18 PM
Thanks Phil --appreciate the URL

Zulu hardwoods dull even TC ! especially Umziti ---& Umfomoti ( Lebombo wattle & Australian Eucaypts
---
regards ACACIA - will try inserts---abandon TC mason bits!