Fitting a tapered blade to a Bailey plane. Anybody got any words of wisdom?

[seanz]

I've got an old (and early) Stanley 5 1/2...bit of a project. It's missing the lever cap, the blade, chipbreaker and lateral adjustment lever.

I have a tapered blade (that's an old timber body plane style for those that need to know) that fits. Well, it sort of fits, it's the right width. There is less than zero clearance at the mouth though, that might need widening.

I don't think I'm heading into uncharted waters...any hints?


Oh, to make this more 'interesting', I'm going to make a lever cap out of brass with a screw clamping action (so it'll have leverage but no lever, right?) a bit like some Record planes.

[Luke Maddux]

You may not be heading into uncharted waters, but they may be mirky. You know that part on the map that says "Here be Dragons"? Think that direction.

First off, I would avoid widening the mouth. That's irreparable damage to the plane.

If you use a tapered blade, you're effectively increasing the attack angle, because the frog is bedded at 45deg, so however many degrees it tapers, add that to 45. This isn't necessarily bad, but it's not what the plane was intended to have on it.

Can you even replace the lateral adjustment? I thought this was peened/riveted in place and would require you to replace the entire frog. I may be wrong. I'm sure that, with the right tools and approach, you could pull something off.

Does the blade have a slot for the depth adjustment wisbone? You're going to need that.

I'll be honest, it sounds like what you want to do is going to create a very poorly useable plane and may damage the existing parts. I love my 5 1/2 plane, and I would recommend getting yours working, but I would highly recommend sourcing replacement Stanley parts instead of doing what you're talking about doing.

I would suggest Stuart at the toolexchange.com.au.

Another route would be to get a blade and chip breaker from Hock Tools in Northern California and then source a frog and lever cap from eBay.

Good luck,
Luke

[Vann]

...I love my 5 1/2 plane, and I would recommend getting yours working, but I would highly recommend sourcing replacement Stanley parts instead of doing what you're talking about doing.

I would suggest Stuart at the toolexchange.com.au.I'd try that Vann fella, he owes you a few favours, and probably has some of the parts you need (if he can find them in amoung the junk :B).

Cheers, Vann.

[seanz]

Thanks Vann. I'll see what I need....it might also need the depth adjuster yoke.
:)



You may not be heading into uncharted waters, but they may be mirky. You know that part on the map that says "Here be Dragons"? Think that direction.

First off, I would avoid widening the mouth. That's irreparable damage to the plane.

If you use a tapered blade, you're effectively increasing the attack angle, because the frog is bedded at 45deg, so however many degrees it tapers, add that to 45. This isn't necessarily bad, but it's not what the plane was intended to have on it.

Can you even replace the lateral adjustment? I thought this was peened/riveted in place and would require you to replace the entire frog. I may be wrong. I'm sure that, with the right tools and approach, you could pull something off.

Does the blade have a slot for the depth adjustment wisbone? You're going to need that.

I'll be honest, it sounds like what you want to do is going to create a very poorly useable plane and may damage the existing parts. I love my 5 1/2 plane, and I would recommend getting yours working, but I would highly recommend sourcing replacement Stanley parts instead of doing what you're talking about doing.

I would suggest Stuart at the toolexchange.com.au.

Another route would be to get a blade and chip breaker from Hock Tools in Northern California and then source a frog and lever cap from eBay.

Good luck,
Luke


I wasn't expecting such harsh discouragement straight out of the box. :D But, alongside some valid points you have also offered some good advice. I hadn't even checked for replacement blades. The plane and the right width blade found in the same box of junk was just too tempting...
But, there are replacements available from Hock and IBC (Jim Davies). I thought 2 1/4" was going to be a hard ask. Chipbreaker can be modified but it's the lever cap that will be a challenge.
:)

[Luke Maddux]

Something to note is that prior to 1939 the 5 1/2 planes were 2 3/8". Not sure which yours is. I'm sure you've measured.

I didn't really mean to be harsh. Maybe discouraging, but not harsh. Sorry if it came off that way.

While it does sound difficult, I suppose if you take a broken plane and make it awesome then well done, but I just worry that in attempting to use parts which were not intended for purpose you may make something with which you aren't happy, and I would hate to see various things get modified irreversibly in the process. There won't be any new, quality Stanley planes made any time soon!

All that aside, I'm interested to see and hear how it goes. Post photos if you make something interesting.

Cheers,
Luke

[Luke Maddux]

Sorry, I got that backwards. It was AFTER 1939 that they went to 2 3/8".

[seanz]

I didn't really mean to be harsh. Maybe discouraging, but not harsh. Sorry if it came off that way.

No worries, Luke. I put a big grin on my reply n everything.
:)

Yep, 2 1/4 is the important measurement today. I found another lever cap for a later Stanley, we'll see.

[Vann]

I thought 2 1/4" was going to be a hard ask. Chipbreaker can be modified but it's the lever cap that will be a challenge.
:)Ah, an early No.5 1/2 - from a time when planes were well made. I was going to suggest that I send you a complete frog - but at 2 1/4" that could be tricky. I'll have to find a lateral lever - but you'll need to devise a rivet of some sort (maybe a nail, peined at both ends?). I don't know that I've got one with a roller at the bottom end - only with the fixed disc. The yoke I can do. As for a lever cap - you'll have to buy something or file/grind down a wider one - or make one as you suggest.

Cheers, Vann.

[seanz]

The lever-cap is a pretty near fit. In fact it does fit but there's very little room either side so we'll just have to see how it functions. The lever-cap is a later one, and I appear to have run out of late model lever cap screws.

I'm good for frogs though. Cheers.
:)

I'm off out to the shed now to de-taper an iron....

[IanW]

Seanz, fitting a tapered blade to a Bailey frog is likely to be a major exercise in frustration. I don't think the change in cutting angle will be too significant, that would only amount to a degree or two. Not fitting the mouth is a more serious problem, & like the others, I would be loath to take file to what might be a perfectly good body, but at least that's an option. However, if you do manage to shoe-horn this blade into your plane, I'll wager London to a brick it won't be much fun to use. Advancing it with the depth adjuster will over-tighten the lever cap, & backing off will loosen it. I like cam-operated lever caps because they can tolerate a bit of variation, but only within normal manufacturing tolerances, not what you'd get from a tapered blade. You'd be constantly fiddling with the tension screw for the lever-cap, if you wanted to vary te blade setting.

I'd be putting the tapered blade aside, or finding a woodie-builder who can use it to good effect, and getting a good after-market blade. That way, you are far more likely to end up with a decent plane you enjoy using!

Cheers,

[ian]

I'll have to find a lateral lever - but you'll need to devise a rivet of some sort (maybe a nail, peined at both ends?). I don't know that I've got one with a roller at the bottom end - only with the fixed disc.
in terms of getting this plane working, a lateral adjustment lever would rate as nice to have but not essential. gentle taps (or controlled wacks) with a small Warrington hammer will achieve the same end, with possibly greater precision than afforded by the lever

[IanW]

in terms of getting this plane working, a lateral adjustment lever would rate as nice to have but not essential. gentle taps (or controlled wacks) with a small Warrington hammer will achieve the same end, with possibly greater precision than afforded by the lever

While I agree that lateral adjusters aren't essential, they are rather handy to have if they work well (the Bailey type usually does). It's a bit more convenient to just tweak the lever, rather than go looking for a hammer every time you need to fine-tune the blade. And the good news is, it is a pretty simple job to install one. A nail will do nicely as the rivet. Just be careful not to overdo it when peining it in place or you'll make it too tight to work easily.

Cheers,

[ian]

It's a bit more convenient to just tweak the lever, rather than go looking for a hammer every time you need to fine-tune the blade. I know what you mean, and lately I've taken to carrying a small hammer in my apron pocket :wink:

[IanW]

I know what you mean, and lately I've taken to carrying a small hammer in my apron pocket :wink:

Hmmm, looks like I need to start wearing an apron. I could have a few extra pockets put on, to keep all the other small tools that keep hiding themselves whenever I need them!
:U

[ian]

Hmmm, looks like I need to start wearing an apron. I could have a few extra pockets put on, to keep all the other small tools that keep hiding themselves whenever I need them!
:Uor get yourself one of these
http://www.leevalley.com/en/images/item/woodworking/assorted/magnetictoolbelt-inset1.jpg http://www.leevalley.com/en/images/item/woodworking/assorted/magnetictoolbelt-dsp2.jpg

[orraloon]

Hope he has the blade wound back on that front one.:D
Regards
John

[IanW]

or get yourself one of these......
:U
Well, I wouldn't lose much with that lot on board. Mainly 'cos I wouldn't be able to move or do anything!

One of LV's April 1st products, I assume.....
Cheers,

[ch!ppy]

:U hehe, imagine your wearing that belt and your mate rolls up in his nice ute, says a quick hello and drives off.. meanwhile your stuck to the side of the ute running alongside.

[yvan]

Hmmm, sharp objects hanging down like this....looks too close for comfort and irreversible injury :D:D yvan

[ian]

One of LV's April 1st products, I assume.....
Yep