Cheap cordless chainsaw at masters [Archive]

rtyuiop

15th May 2016, 05:18 PM

Hi folks,

A heads up on what may or may not turn out to be a good deal - Masters is running a pretty big sale on their Kobalt 80V garden tools, including a chainsaw:

https://www.masters.com.au/product/101756069/kobalt-80v-45cm-bar-cordless-chainsaw-battery-charger

I need a quiet chainsaw, so I've ordered one. Only issue might be warranty coverage once masters shuts down (assuming they do), but at the price hopefully it's worth the gamble!

Danny

Sturdee

15th May 2016, 05:37 PM

Only issue might be warranty coverage once masters shuts down (assuming they do), but at the price hopefully it's worth the gamble!

Danny

Not really a problem as from the same page:

Public Announcement from Woolworths

Woolworths Limited has announced that it intends to exit its home improvement businesses, including our 63 Masters Home Improvement stores, and our Home Timber & Hardware business.

This process will take several months and the business will continue to trade normally through this period. Woolworths will honour all gift cards, product warranties, returns, and lay-bys and the completion of any contracted home improvement projects such as kitchens, bathrooms and floor coverings.

Peter.

rtyuiop

15th May 2016, 06:12 PM

Well, that makes me a fair bit less nervous about it! Thanks, Peter.

Now the main risk is just that it might turn out to be a really bad saw!

Paul39

16th May 2016, 10:36 AM

I would not call $224 cheap. Looks like a good saw. Kobalt 80-Volt 18-inch Cordless Chainsaw - Review | Tool Snob - ToolSnob.com (http://www.toolsnob.com/archives/2015/08/kobalt_80-volt_18-inch_cordles.php)

I bought a Ryobi 10 inch 18 volt saw to have in the car when I saw something along the road that was too long. It was around $100 US. I have two 18 volt Ryobi drills so the batteries will interchange.

I found that it would use one battery to cut an 8 inch log. There was a two for one price on big batteries, so I bought.

You may want to take your new saw home, charge the battery, and if you are happy with it buy one or two of the biggest amp hour batteries they have.

dai sensei

16th May 2016, 11:08 AM

Got mine this morning, plus with ABN, another 5% off :2tsup:

With the 80V 2Ah it battery lasts more than one cut like the little 18V other stuff. It has oregon 18" bar and 3/8" chain plus charger is a 30min fast charge. Has 5 year warrantee on saw and 3 year warrantee on battery/charger although for another ~$40 you can increase those to 7/5 years which is amazing if stood by.

All works a treat so far, oiler works well and runs nice and quietly :cool:. In the car ready to do that odd little trim as I'm driving along :rolleyes:

rtyuiop

16th May 2016, 11:20 AM

Ripper Neil, glad to hear it doesn't have anything obviously wrong with it so far. Did it come with chain oil in the box? Headed off to Masters today to pick mine up.

Paul, I should clarify and say it's cheap by Australian standards... We get ripped off a bit in comparison to the US - for comparison, the normal price on the battery by itself is more than the saw + battery + charger on this deal!

BobL

16th May 2016, 02:08 PM

The Lowe's US Website has the retail price for that saw at US$299, so AUS$224 or US$161 is almost half the US price

see Shop Kobalt 80-Volt Lithium Ion (Li-ion) 18-in Cordless Electric Chainsaw at Lowes.com (http://www.lowes.com/pd_419015-95404-KCS+180B-06_0__?zipCode=22908&masthead=true&firstReferURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lowes.com%2Fpd_419015-95404-KCS%2B180B-06_0__%3FproductId%3D50408238&catalogId=10051&catalogId=10051&productId=50408238&findStoreErrorURL=StoreLocatorDisplayView&selectedLocalStoreBeanArray=%5Bcom.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean%40af80af8%2C+com.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean%40bbc0bbc%2C+com.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean%40c800c80%2C+com.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean%40d440d44%2C+com.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean%40e100e10%5D&Ntt=&langId=-1&langId=-1&URL=TopCategoriesDisplayView&mastheadURL=TopCategoriesDisplayView&storeId=10151&storeId=10151)

A few comaprisons
80v x 2 Ahr = 160 Whr
The Stihl AR 300 36V power tool battery is 227 Whr , albeit the price of the Stihl battery and charger costs more than twice the total cost of Kobalt CS and battery.
The Stihl AR 300 claims a run time of 35 minutes, whereas my experience with it is about half that.

The 18" bar is somewhat optimistic.
An 18" cut usually requires about 2kW of power.
( 80V x 2Ahr)/2kW = 4.8 minutes of cutting at that size.
A more reasonable bar size would be 12", might get 10 minutes of cutting with it?

My experience with these is the chain needs to be kept razor sharp. I would recommend a touch up with every battery charge in hardwoods and every second charge in softwoods.

rtyuiop

16th May 2016, 03:20 PM

Just unpacked mine... To answer my own question - no, no chain oil included, so grab some if, like me, you don't own another chainsaw.

The charger has a fan that is pretty noisy (needed to charge as fast as it does I guess) - I'm hoping it's smart enough to quiet down once the battery is near capacity.

dai sensei

16th May 2016, 11:30 PM

Yeh I am interested in how it will perform. I'm certainly not expecting miracles and it performs like my 211 but I was hoping it could handle the 150mm burled Acacias and the 300mm Pennyleaf I have GPS marked for later collection :rolleyes:.

Saw a burled Acacia today near Bowen that would have been a good test, but could only GPS it as I don't want any more timber heading up to Darwin, more for on the way back. I'm heading up to Jim's and Cliff's places near Cairns next week and will try it then.

Let me know how yours goes rtyuiop

dai sensei

24th May 2016, 01:03 AM

I arrived at Powderpost's place (Jim) today and both of us were interested in the performance of the saw. So Jim suggested we trim some low branches on some of his mango trees. Well we started with one ~2-4" chopping it off and breaking it down into smaller pieces. Went well but battery still on 3 bars (full charge). Started on another branch, same thing, went but well still on 3 bars. Kept going and ended up doing the whole orchard's low branches, on ~25 branches, battery down to 2 bars :cool:.

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So we picked on a dead Lychee tree, good and reasonably hard timber with 2-6" branches and trunk of up to 300mm. Dropped all the branches and finally down to 1 bar :cool:.

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I then kept cutting the branches on the ground down smaller until the battery ran out (actually on the last cut).

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Overall ~0.5 hours of run time, chain starting to show signs of wear but not completely blunt, and used 2/3 x the oil in chainsaw :2tsup:.

Verdict - very happy. Worked well on the smaller branches and certainly worked harder on the 300mm trunk but quite acceptable considering the chain was worn. Not as good as my Stihl 211 :no: but I didn't expect it too either :rolleyes:. My gut feel was that I would have used a full tank of fuel in the 211 to do the same job.

Wasn't as quiet as I was hoping, it could easily be heard and recognised as a chainsaw from inside the house, so not sure about those silent prunings in the middle of the night :~. But as a general purpose convenient saw with no after 2 stroke stink for the odd trim or three it was very successful and I give it a big thumbs up :bgth:.

Paul39

24th May 2016, 01:18 AM

Thanks for the review of the saw.

woodPixel

24th May 2016, 02:30 AM

What made it noisy? The work of the chain?

rtyuiop

24th May 2016, 07:59 AM

Thanks Neil! Mine is still in the box, I was too lazy on the weekend to try it out.

NeilS

24th May 2016, 09:58 AM

What made it noisy? The work of the chain?

The chain on the sprocket and the gears in the drive. The gears in a hand drill also make a noise that will travel some distance.

But, a hand bow saw is as quiet as your puffing and grunting... : ~]

NeilS

24th May 2016, 10:15 AM

Keep in mind that electric (cord or cordless) chainsaws are potentially more dangerous than fuel models. Protective chaps will (usually) stall a fuel saw, but are not as effective against the momentum of an armature driven saw.

BobL

24th May 2016, 10:21 AM

While it sounds promising, given this post is in a turners forum I'd like to see a heavier duty test more akin to what turners would at least sometimes want to do with a CS.
It's one thing to intermittently cut 4 - 8" branches but quite another only cross cutting and ripping 12" or bigger logs into bowl blanks.

The problem with all battery powered saws is the battery cannot run continually under heavy power draw as it overheats.
During intermittent cutting like pruning the battery gets a chance to cool down but longer cuts would see it overheat quicker.
Those that are well made will turn themselves off others might even catch fire.

dai sensei

24th May 2016, 10:36 AM

The chain on the sprocket and the gears in the drive. The gears in a hand drill also make a noise that will travel some distance..

Yes, exactly my thought

...But, a hand bow saw is as quiet as your puffing and grunting... : ~]

but often ending in silence, or more commonly known as death :U:U

Keep in mind that electric (cord or cordless) chainsaws are potentially more dangerous than fuel models. Protective chaps will (usually) stall a fuel saw, but are not as effective against the momentum of an armature driven saw.

Yes true, and this was the first time I wasn't wearing any :o The excitement of using it got the better of me :roll:

While it sounds promising, given this post is in a turners forum I'd like to see a heavier duty test more akin to what turners would at least sometimes want to do with a CS.
It's one thing to intermittently cut 4 - 8" branches but quite another only cross cutting and ripping 12" or bigger logs into bowl blanks.

The problem with all battery powered saws is the battery cannot run continually under heavy power draw as it overheats.
During intermittent cutting like pruning the battery gets a chance to cool down but longer cuts would see it overheat quicker.
Those that are well made will turn themselves off others might even catch fire.

At home use agreed Bob, perhaps someone else can check that out, but for me that is what the bandsaw is for. For me it is for travelling cutting, chop it down/off and get it in the car quick before someone catches you :U:U:U Shame it was not as quiet as I had hoped :~. I will test it on a decent burl as it is still quieter than a normal chainsaw

BobL

24th May 2016, 10:47 AM

It might be a bit quiet in green wood?

dai sensei

24th May 2016, 10:21 PM

It might be a bit quiet in green wood?

only a bit quieter in the Mango, but not much

Chief Tiff

24th May 2016, 11:45 PM

This Kobalt saw looks identical to the 80V Victa 18" saw; which by sheer chance is on clearance at the Big Green Shed along with the blower and line trimmer.

My local is selling all skins and 2Ah batteries for $99, and chargers for $50.

They had one combo pack but is was a 16" bar, it was going for $250. Although the bar was smaller it did have a 4Ah battery.

I'd just invested $600 :oo: in the 58V AEG line trimmer; they also do a chainsaw with a 16" for $400 so when my Chinese no-name saw finally gives up I'll be looking at this to replace it. What I'm really looking forward to is the cordless mower; it takes a pair of batteries so should have a fair but of grunt!

justonething

24th May 2016, 11:51 PM

Kobalt's lawn mower is on special at the moment, half price I believe. It has good reviews. I was going to buy it, but it was too big for our small lawn.

rtyuiop

15th June 2016, 05:06 PM

For anyone who got one of these - masters seems to have now put the batteries on special, so I grabbed another. Never hurts to have a spare!

https://www.masters.com.au/product/101756093/kobalt-80v-2-0ah-rechargeable-lithium-ion-battery?utm_source=Automated&utm_medium=email&utm_content=product-list&utm_campaign=order-confirm

rtyuiop

22nd June 2016, 05:42 PM

I finally got a chance to try mine out on the weekend, cutting up some decent size silky oak logs (biggest was up around 600mm diameter, so a decent size bit of timber) into more manageable pieces. Bear in mind I have never owned a chainsaw before, so my opinion is not at all educated.

Having said that, I'm very happy with my purchase (for the sale price, if it was full price I would definitely prefer a corded Makita or a Stihl if I needed cordless). We got through two and a bit batteries worth of charge... Got enough runtime that I was just about ready to take a break for lunch by the time we'd run through the two batteries, and that gave sufficient time for both batteries to charge.

Only negative we discovered is that by the end of the session, the chain was not as sharp as it could be, and while the saw was still cutting, it was generating fairly big shavings, which jammed between the guard and the bar. Once it was jammed solidly enough it shut itself down (I guess a safety feature, it ran perfectly happily once unjammed, and we went through a couple of cycles of that before we finished). So BobL's suggestion to keep the chain sharp is very true!

Paul39

23rd June 2016, 01:50 AM

Only negative we discovered is that by the end of the session, the chain was not as sharp as it could be, and while the saw was still cutting, it was generating fairly big shavings, which jammed between the guard and the bar. Once it was jammed solidly enough it shut itself down (I guess a safety feature, it ran perfectly happily once unjammed, and we went through a couple of cycles of that before we finished). So BobL's suggestion to keep the chain sharp is very true!

What do you expect with the thinly disguised concrete you Aussies call timber! I use a Dremel tool with an abrasive stone the right size for the chain for sharpening. The files I have found are softer than the chain. I think a diamond coated rod the right diameter would be the best for sharpening in the bush.

I find cross cutting with either my small electric chain saw or the big gas powered Stihl 029, does not clog the saw with shavings. When ripping or cutting with the grain I get long stringy shavings that will clog either saw and has caused the chain to be thrown off.

When ripping I pay attention to the accumulation of stringy shavings and stop the saw and pull them out, then run the saw a bit without cutting to throw out any I can't reach.

Sounds as though you have a good saw. Thanks for the review.

BobL

23rd June 2016, 09:51 AM

What do you expect with the thinly disguised concrete you Aussies call timber!
Silky oak is actually quite soft, somewhere between Pinus Radiata and red maple so it is a doddle to cut with a chainsaw.

I use a Dremel tool with an abrasive stone the right size for the chain for sharpening. The files I have found are softer than the chain. I think a diamond coated rod the right diameter would be the best for sharpening in the bush.

Even though I have access to a chain grinder I have always used files even in my shop. My dad taught me as a kid 50+ years ago and all it takes is a bit of practice so I can now touch up the cutters on a chain for a 5ft bar in about 6 minutes. The only chains I've found that are harder than files have carbide cutters.

NeilS

23rd June 2016, 11:08 AM

Only negative we discovered is that by the end of the session, the chain was not as sharp as it could be, and while the saw was still cutting, it was generating fairly big shavings, which jammed between the guard and the bar. Once it was jammed solidly enough it shut itself down (I guess a safety feature, it ran perfectly happily once unjammed, and we went through a couple of cycles of that before we finished). So BobL's suggestion to keep the chain sharp is very true!

That's an unavoidable feature of all chainsaws; they need to be sharpened, often. I would take a spare chain for each chainsaw if I was doing a half day and three spare sharp chains for a full day. You did OK if you got to lunch on just one chain.

Were you ripping or crosscutting when you were generating the 'big shavings'?

As Jerry points out, ripping creates long shavings that tend to clog in the sprocket/guard area. Worse if you are working near the ground and the shavings pile up under the saw. Raising the log that is being ripped helps a bit. The short chips generated with crosscutting don't normally clog.

..... I have always used files even in my shop. My dad taught me as a kid 50+ years ago and all it takes is a bit of practice so I can now touch up the cutters on a chain for a 5ft bar in about 6 minutes.

Like Bob, I also hand file, but can't claim to do a touch up at the same speed. However, I would have one side of the chain done by the time I got a grinder setup. I can always touch up a chain by hand out on a job, but prefer to take spare sharp chains with me.

There are reasonably priced chain grinders for standard chain, but grinders for square chisel chain are prohibitive, which I have on my main ripping bar. So, I have to keep up my hand sharpening skills for that.

rtyuiop

23rd June 2016, 12:10 PM

Yes, I had the biggest issue with long shavings while ripping - and they were long cuts, too, so I'm not too surprised! Sharpening will be another skill to pick up, I guess.

Wigwood

23rd June 2016, 08:43 PM

G'day, very informative. I was looking at getting one of the ryobi 36V chainsaw to use in the back yard to cut up logs without driving the neighbours crazy. Having second thoughts now due to comments regarding noise.......damn..... On another note, I bought the missus a electric mower, I initially had some doubts but she loves it and has plenty of grunt to mow a really big yard. The noise of the lawn mower is much quieter then the big old 2 stroke she used to struggle pushing around, I can hardly hear her now..... :) hehehe :whip:

BobL

23rd June 2016, 09:11 PM

One of the most neglected aspects of sharpening is setting the rakers.

If you are using a raker gauge like these . . . .

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. . . they set the raker for a fixed depth (e.g. 25"') but this depth only applies when the chain is new.
After that they are increasingly useless.

As the cutter wears the raker has to be dropped even further that these gauges do.
A more exact approach is to make the raker depth something like 1/10th of the gullet width.
For example when the gullet width is 0.4" the raker should be 0.04" lower than the tip of the cutter.
When the gullet width is 0.5" the raker should be 0.05" lower than the tip of the cutter.

Few chainsaw users (even professionals, even my Dad who was a faller for many years) know about this and the older the chain gets the more frustrated they get because their chain does not cut as well.

Everyone I know that has tried this method has been blown away how it turns a crappy old chain into a speed demon.

BTW on another forum I offer a chain diagnosis service. Post a side on picture of some of your cutters magnified as much as you can and I will tell you how you can improve them.
It's probably best to post these in the small milling forum.

dai sensei

25th June 2016, 10:38 PM

Yes, I had the biggest issue with long shavings while ripping - and they were long cuts, too, so I'm not too surprised! Sharpening will be another skill to pick up, I guess.

Might I suggest the problem wasn't a blunt chain, just the normal accumulation of good shavings whilst ripping, that even the best saws have issues with if you are not careful.

Me, I am very happy with mine, the trailer is pretty much full (down one side) with portions of now 9 trees :rolleyes:
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Ubernoob

26th June 2016, 12:02 AM

BobL

26th June 2016, 10:04 AM

I'd imagine moving to a chain that isn't made from soft cheese would help extend battery life if you don't want to keep touching up the chains throughout the day.

I have to learn to sharpen chains, I bought an EZE Lap sharpener and the saw wanted to cut circles, I later realised that the guide markings were far from correct so I'm going to get some chisels and will learn how to do it properly.

Saw wanting to cut in circles is caused by the following;

1) Left hand (LH) and right hand (RH) cutters are of different length or different top cutter plate filing angles.
The LH and RH cutters must have the same angles.
If you're using a conventional raker guide the LH and RH cutters need to be be the same length*.

2) Uneven height bar guide rails.
Eventually the bar rails wear. If one rail wears a tinse more that the other this will accelerate the wear on the lower side and very soon the chain will tip over in the cut forcing the chain to cut in circles.
Bar rails need to be "Trued" or square up every so often. Hold a square across the rails to check this.
The rails on quality bars will be too hard to file so something like a belt sander and a metal working belt can be used. The other way I have done it is with a new 9" grinder wheel in a table saw with just a 1/4 of the wheel poking through. Very light pressure and constantly moving the bar will get it true.

3) Wrong gauge chain in use.
Chains come in a variety of gauges (e.g. 0.050", 0,058" and 0.063")
If a 0.050" chain is used on a bar with a 0.063" groove the chain and bar will wear quickly and the situation 2) above will occur.
Be sure to true up the bar before replacing the chain
If the chain has been used for some time it is most likely cactus - never put a worn chain on a new bar.

* Contrary to the usual advice, cutters do not need to be exactly the same length - what they really need to have is the same "raker angle"
This is raker angle.
Its the angle between the top of the raker, the cutter tip and the bottom of the ruler (laying across the top of adjacent cutters.
If that is the same on all cutters the cutter lengths can vary significantly and it won't matter.
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Once again a reminder of the offer to diagnose chains on posted pictures.