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StevoWoodi
19th June 2016, 09:29 AM
I recently acquired a Durden Top Turn 400 lathe with a 1 1/2 HP motor. It is a very solid lathe and I am really enjoying turning on such a sturdy unit.

The only issue I have is that the swing over the bed is 410mm. It does have a gap in the bed adjacent to the headstock which increases the swing to 560mm. Unfortunately by the time you attach a faceplate and screw it onto the lathe the max thickness of the workpiece is only about 80mm. And significantly less with a chuck.



There is provision for an outboard turning attachment and the main spindle does have a left handed thread on the outboard side as well. As these lathes have not been manufactured for 10 to 15 years I am not hopefully of getting an original version. However Woodfast offer their own version which looks quite good and the price is very reasonable too at $220.

CWS Store - Rear Turning Attachment | Carroll's Woodcraft Supplies (http://www.cwsonline.com.au/shop/item/rear-turning-attachment)

I am sure the mounting holes will not line up so I will need to drill new holes in either the attachment or less likely the headstock.

Does anyone have experience with these units ie will it be worth the effort? Any other alternatives?

Thanks,

Steve

Nubsnstubs
19th June 2016, 01:06 PM
Steve, it looks like the ways will separate from the head stock. Since you think or are prepared to drill some holes, why not separate the ways,align them to the top of the gap, and then drill out and tap some holes to get the swing the gap allows. Then, your swing will be whatever the distance is between head and tail stock and you'll have ways support the whole length of the ways. Of course, you will need to raise head stock at the feet to make the lathe level. That would be my approach if I had this situation come up for me. Heck, there might already be holes there, and since you aren't thinking along those lines, they might have not been obvious. Just a thought........... Jerry (in Tucson)

Pat
19th June 2016, 01:32 PM
Steve, I have the same Outboard table, attached to my Yellow Peril (Woodfast M910). It gives my up to 700mm swing. It works well as an outboard table and tool rest. It does sterling duty as a receptacle for tool rests, rags and EEE during normal use :U

Skew ChiDAMN!!
19th June 2016, 03:21 PM
You're basically just after a toolrest for the outboard side?

How about making a simple stand?

It can be as basic as a 20L (4Gal) drum full of concrete with a pipe the right length (& internal diameter for the rest, of course) embedded in the middle. Awkward to move around, but the weight works in your favour in use. One advantage is it'll give you the maximum throw your lathe can handle - you'd probably need to hand assist the starting spin on large enough pieces if you felt that adventurous. :D

It may be worth giving a try before you go the length of drilling into a new attachment or <twitch> your lathe.

smiife
19th June 2016, 04:33 PM
Steve, I have the same Outboard table, attached to my Yellow Peril (Woodfast M910). It gives my up to 700mm swing. It works well as an outboard table and tool rest. It does sterling duty as a receptacle for tool rests, rags and EEE during normal use :U

Hi pat Is that whats it for,,,,,, I will have to get one of those ! :U

StevoWoodi
19th June 2016, 11:54 PM
Thanks for your suggestions. I will have a look at the feasibility of reattaching the bed to the headstock a bit lower to give greater swing.

I have heard of using a drum of concrete as a free standing tool post support but not sure how steady this will be?

Given that the Woodfast unit works well and has pretty much the same capacity as the optional Durden unit at least I know that I can fall back to that if I decide not to proceed with one of the other options and it will be within the capacity of the original design of the lathe.

Thanks for your help, I will let you know how things progress.

Cheers,

Steve

Paul39
20th June 2016, 05:53 AM
I like this type as it transmits force to the floor and holds the tool rest from pulling toward the work better than the bucket of concrete or smaller free standing ones:

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/images/prod/275/vic_out_bra.jpg

Wadkin made a good heavy free standing one:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/wadkin/img4.jpg

If you have more time than money, one could be made up using black iron pipe and fittings.

Pat
20th June 2016, 06:29 PM
Paul, I know the Wadkin one personally, heavy piece of cast steel!

NeilS
21st June 2016, 04:16 PM
I had the rear outboard table on a Woodfast. Good quality kit, but there is one thing to consider.

Check out the availability of lefthanded inserts for your chucks. I found them very hard to come by in 30x3.5mm internal thread size at the time (had to get them machined up) and is one of the reasons I let that otherwise very good lathe go. Vermec is now making them, here (http://www.vermec.com/vermec-chuck-accessories.html), but I would check out that they can do it in your spindle thread size for your chucks before investing in the outboard attachment.

I have used both the outboard attachment and a free standing tool rest. The table attachment is much easier to use if you are going to do a lot of outboard turning (most of my turning is outboard, not for size but for comfort), but a good freestanding unit will get the job done if you are only going to use it occasionally on larger pieces.

If you search for them, there are a few threads on the forum with different freestanding rest designs.

Here is mine...


383506 383507

383502 383504


Ignore the extra attachment to the securing plate at the top of the centre post (another experiment).

StevoWoodi
21st June 2016, 04:32 PM
Steve, it looks like the ways will separate from the head stock. Since you think or are prepared to drill some holes, why not separate the ways,align them to the top of the gap, and then drill out and tap some holes to get the swing the gap allows. Then, your swing will be whatever the distance is between head and tail stock and you'll have ways support the whole length of the ways. Of course, you will need to raise head stock at the feet to make the lathe level. That would be my approach if I had this situation come up for me. Heck, there might already be holes there, and since you aren't thinking along those lines, they might have not been obvious. Just a thought........... Jerry (in Tucson)

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for that suggestion, I had not even thought of that approach. When I checked it out though there is not a lot of room to drill an additional set of holes for the ways and also the casting has a boss about 1" or more to accommodate the bolts to attach the ways. Naturally if they were moved down there is no similar boss lower on the casting and consequently not much meat to hold the ways.

Also the motor is on the frame so that would have to be adjusted or a new longer belt would be required as well.

I think I will look at one of the other solutions.

Thanks,

Steve

StevoWoodi
21st June 2016, 04:47 PM
I had the rear outboard table on a Woodfast. Good quality kit, but there is one thing to consider.

Check out the availability of lefthanded inserts for your chucks. I found them very hard to come by in 30x3.5mm internal thread size at the time (had to get them machined up) and is one of the reasons I let that otherwise very good lathe go. Vermec is now making them, here (http://www.vermec.com/vermec-chuck-accessories.html), but I would check out that they can do it in your spindle thread size for your chucks before investing in the outboard attachment.

I have used both the outboard attachment and a free standing tool rest. The table attachment is much easier to use if you are going to do a lot of outboard turning (most of my turning is outboard, not for size but for comfort), but a good freestanding unit will get the job done if you are only going to use it occasionally on larger pieces.

If you search for them, there are a few threads on the forum with different freestanding rest designs.




Hi Neil,

Good tip on the chuck inserts. The Durden is 30x3.5 and I do have Vicmarc chucks although one is direct threaded and I have Locktighted the other insert in as it was coming undone rather than the spindle thread. I might have to buy another one just for outboard turning ;-)

I am going to the wood show this weekend so will check if there are any options while I am there otherwise I will probably go with your Vermec recommendation. I do have access to a big lathe at my woodturning club (Woodturners of the Hunter) but I would like to at least finish the bowls at home even if I rough turn them at the club as their lathe has EVS whereas mine is belt drive only at present. That upgrade is in the wish list for a later time.

Thanks,

Steve

turnerted
21st June 2016, 05:09 PM
Steve
I used a Vermec LH adaptor on my old lathe when turning outboard , but sold it with the lathe . One thing you need to consider ,if you are running the lathe either backwards or forwards, there is always a risk of either the chuck or the insert unscrewing unless you have a locking ring . I didn't have one and I had a few exciting moments .
Ted

Drillit
21st June 2016, 06:28 PM
Hello Steve,
I have the Durden as well. I bought the outboard for the Durden through Hare & Forbes some years ago.
They were the Agents. However, they were made by a firm in S.A and although they have ceased to make the lathes
they may have the outboard pieces available, if H&F can't source for you? You will however need a left hand thread insert for your chuck. You can turn
up to about 900mm on the outboard. Hope that helps. Drillit.

StevoWoodi
21st June 2016, 11:06 PM
Hello Steve,
I have the Durden as well. I bought the outboard for the Durden through Hare & Forbes some years ago.
They were the Agents. However, they were made by a firm in S.A and although they have ceased to make the lathes
they may have the outboard pieces available, if H&F can't source for you? You will however need a left hand thread insert for your chuck. You can turn
up to about 900mm on the outboard. Hope that helps. Drillit.

High Drillit,

I will check with Hare and Forbes but I expect that they are well out of the Durden equipment. I did find a Steve Durden selling old Durden parts, amongst other things, on eBay and I bought a new original hand wheel for my lathe.

jr444400 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/jr444400/m.html?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEFSXS%3AMESOI&_trksid=p2053788.m1543.l2654)

I did ask him if there was any other parts for the Durden TT400 and he said he would list them if they had any but so far none have appeared so I suspect no big bits left.

If I do proceed I think it might be wise to buy a dedicated chuck and Locktight the insert in so I do not have the "exciting moments" that Turnerted mentioned in his post. I don't expect I will need much more than 600mm capacity as that is as much as I can cut and carry. I cored a 520mm dia x 140mm thick black butt at my club on Mon night and that left me tired out, must be getting old!

Thanks,

Steve

Nubsnstubs
22nd June 2016, 02:07 AM
[QUOTE=StevoWoodi;1959028]Hi Jerry,

Thanks for that suggestion, I had not even thought of that approach. When I checked it out though there is not a lot of room to drill an additional set of holes for the ways and also the casting has a boss about 1" or more to accommodate the bolts to attach the ways. Naturally if they were moved down there is no similar boss lower on the casting and consequently not much meat to hold the ways.

Also the motor is on the frame so that would have to be adjusted or a new longer belt would be required as well.

I think I will look at one of the other solutions.

Thanks,

Steve[/QUOTE




Steve, these pictures are better than the first few at showing what you have to work with. Another thing I forgot to mention in my first reply was that you would also have to build up your tailstock. Since I have access to a machine/welding shop, so those kinds of issues are not that far out of line for me. It's just whether I want to do something like that or not. I am pleased you at least considered my suggestion.. Thanks............. Jerry (in Tucson)

Nubsnstubs
22nd June 2016, 02:10 AM
Steve, what is the coring system you used in post #14? ............. Jerry (in Tucson)

StevoWoodi
22nd June 2016, 08:21 AM
Steve, what is the coring system you used in post #14? ............. Jerry (in Tucson)

Jerry,

It is a McNaughton Centre Saver. This is the first generation model that is about 15 years old now. I bought it from one of my club's former members who had not used it much and is scaling down his wood turning now. Here is a link to a video by one of your countrymen on the subject-

https://youtu.be/xk-Z-scS84w

This shows one of the newer generations. I have only used it about 5 times and am always a bit nervous about where the end of the cutter is. Good operators can get multiple cores out but I think I am going well if I can just get the extra one, particularly in gnarly Ausralian hardwood like this blackbutt. (Eucalyptus pilularis)

Cheers,

Steve

NeilS
22nd June 2016, 11:20 AM
I cored a 520mm dia x 140mm thick black butt at my club on Mon night and that left me tired out, must be getting old!



Steve, a 520mm core is a good effort in anyone's money, especially if it's in something as tough as our hardwoods.

On the unwinding problem you get with large diameter pieces; if you have variable speed lathe you can dial it down slowly before you hit the stop button, but in your case without VS to slowly reduce the speed the piece will want to keep going when you hit the stop button and take a wander across the workshop. Locking the insert into the chuck doesn't prevent that. I found a rubber washer (made from tyre tubing) between the insert and the spindle shoulder reduced, but did not eliminate, the frequency of those 'moments of excitement'.

StevoWoodi
22nd June 2016, 03:18 PM
Steve, what is the coring system you used in post #14? ............. Jerry (in Tucson)

Jerry, I should have mentioned that when I told my wife of my new acquisition and that I would be able to get 2 or perhaps even 3 bowls from one blank her response was: "Does that mean that it is going to take 2 or 3 times as long to get through those piles of wood that are around the place?" :U

Cheers,

Steve

Nubsnstubs
23rd June 2016, 12:59 AM
Jerry, I should have mentioned that when I told my wife of my new acquisition and that I would be able to get 2 or perhaps even 3 bowls from one blank her response was: "Does that mean that it is going to take 2 or 3 times as long to get through those piles of wood that are around the place?" http://d1r5wj36adg1sk.cloudfront.net/images/smilies/happy/biggrin.gif

Cheers,

Steve

Steve, no need to send pictures of what your wife is describing, as I'm pretty sure it looks like my place. Hehehehe Miy wife asked the same thing.

I have a McNaughton center saver loaned to me by the local Woodcraft store here in Tucson. I asked about yours as it looks like the gate is not shown.http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=383538&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1466510742 Or is this the complete system?

I call it the Dictator as you have to follow the shape you end up with after coring.

I've started leaving my blanks straight on the sides, and start my coring about 1" down from the top edge. After cutting it off, I do the same on the next piece. If I'm lucky and planned it right and have enough material, I'll do another and then finish the last bowl still in the jaws. When done, I will have 3-4 bowls all the same OD. If I really knew what I was doing and could get larger blanks, I could get about 6 bowls from a 9" thick piece with the way I do it. I don't sell my stuff, so they just stack up. My table is shrinking.......

The way you started yours, your bowl diameters get smaller as you progress through. I tried that and failed miserably.................. Jerry (in Tucson)

Christos
23rd June 2016, 03:23 PM
Jerry, I should have mentioned that when I told my wife of my new acquisition and that I would be able to get 2 or perhaps even 3 bowls from one blank her response was: "Does that mean that it is going to take 2 or 3 times as long to get through those piles of wood that are around the place?" :U

Cheers,

Steve


Classic

StevoWoodi
23rd June 2016, 03:57 PM
Jerry,

As I mentioned it is a first generation McNaughton centre saver, pictures below showing complete unit. As you can see the support that fits into the banjo is not as solid as the newer ones. Also you will see that the cutting blade only has the tip forged out on one side for clearance. According to Robohippie in his YouTube clip the new ones with a solid support and clearance on both sides of the blade are superior.

However when I did my first large bank at my club they have a second generation unit and I tried it and gave it away as it was almost impossible to get started in the blackbutt. I reverted to my old version and while it still became stuck from time to time performed much better than the club's. I am working on a YouTube clip of my own so will let you know when it is up.

I had not thought of using your technique as I figure I can just cut thinner blanks with the chainsaw, but not as thin as yours obviously.

I sell most of my bowls at the local markets which is also a test of the quality and more importantly when I finished full time work last year and indicated to my wife that I would be able to do more turning she promptly said that I had better find an outlet as we could not afford to fill the house up. Having spend most of the last 29 years in inventory management I could not argue with her.

Cheers,

Steve

Drillit
23rd June 2016, 05:42 PM
I rang him in SA at the Durden number that I do not have. Drillit.

StevoWoodi
23rd June 2016, 09:01 PM
I rang him in SA at the Durden number that I do not have. Drillit.

Any joy on the bowl turning attachment and if so can I afford it?

Thanks

Steve