Thomas White Radial Arm Saw

[woodlogic]

Hi folks,

For some time I've been after a Wadkin CD crosscut saw. A few weeks ago I came across a Thomas White ED model - the thing was just so gorgeous I couldn't resist, well, at least for the time being until I find a CD. The shape and form of this machine is very unique. From the goose neck frame to the arched back, it really is unique. Would be great if anyone has a catalogue of the machine to show.

Regards,
Raymond.

[wallace1973]

I love it, am I right in thinking the table moves up/down. It looks like it shouldn't be stood up. I've got a CC but its way down the line.

[L.S.Barker1970]

Very sexy !!

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae301/matty355/matty355001/white%20ED377_zpsehfiublj.jpg
Melbourne Matty.

[jgforsberg]

Why would you want a CD now? That thing is great it's got th long spindle too. Do the chips blow out the very back of the drop box?

[Vann]

Very sexy !!I agree. A beauty.

The Wadkin CD is a very clunky looking machine in comparison.

My tuppence worth.

Cheers, Vann.

ps. You could call it Edward :D


Very sexy !!Oops. Maybe Edwina...

[Allison74]

Oh Verynice indeed.
There is no way you'll want to trade down to a Wadkin CD after that. But if you do then you won't have a problem finding a few interested buyers.
White made some really interesting machines.
Their SO is really interesting. design. Unlike a conventional pendulum saw this one cuts horizontal like a radial arm.
391738

Have fun,
Alli

[jgforsberg]

I am always impressed by the White kit. the first in many designs and top of the heap. there the only UK maker that i know of that made a flip up table over under the first to do parallelogram planer table and sanders for thicknessing wide panel's and doors.

these saw are not a RAS that Dewalt claims to have invented. these were referred to as straight line cross cut and trenching machines. this one has got to be the best as it has the pivot right over the fence so the blade comes out a small hole. Must be very balanced. The rail bearings on these saws are set very far apart when compared to the carage of the RAS and so have way less play in the travel hence straight line . The White has machined ways and not drill rod for the bearings like the Wadkin and it would be nice to see how that is holding up or what previsions for ware are engineered in . Also the roller cartage is part of the motor/saw and the rails are fixed to the base casting . On the Wadkin the rail in part of the motor/saw and cast in aluminum to cut the weight . would be less fatigue on the operator on the White. the tilt gear has got to be the best i have seen though there was a Porter made in the US that had some what the same thing just not as nice. lastly that drop box for the blade is killer in design for both dust and safety and does not fault when the blade motor is tipped/tilted.

[auscab]

Amazing saw Raymond ! Its a Rare Gem.

I cant get over the amount of cast iron you have to move when you will be raising or lowering the cut !!

I suppose it just comes down to gearing and oil , but its a lot of iron! Ill be looking forward to hearing how it feels and works .

It just looks like it will be full of surprises , and with White's reputation I bet they are all good surprises.

It would be a pity to cover the view of the saw with to much wood for a table , perhaps a more see through metal fabrication with rollers ??

Rob

[Vann]

...White made some really interesting machines.

Their SO is really interesting. design. Unlike a conventional pendulum saw this one cuts horizontal like a radial arm.
391738
Looks like wallace has found one, crammed in a corner, in the UK somewhere.

397356 397357 Photos stolen from a "wallace" post on the Canadian forum.

I agree - a really interesting design.

Cheers, Vann.

[Allison74]

Hi Vann,
I hope he manages to find one. Those pics are from a few years ago on Ebay if I recall. I hunted for a long time for more. The only other one I found was this one at Chatham Naval museum.

397368

They are an interesting design,. Because they use a Watts Linkage the saw actually stays horizontal through its full range of swing, it doesn't swing in an arc. Also because the frame rotation point is under the pivot point the blade will always cut through the same point regardless of what angle it is set at just like a Uni-pont or the White radial arm that's in the first post. They were a very innovative company. Pity they fell victim to the machinery wars in the 70's in the UK.

The chances of finding one are probably close to zero, pity!!
Edited.
I just checked Wallace's post. He found that one, it's in the identical position it was in the photos from years ago. He should buy it!! Pity it's on the other side of the world.
Have fun,
Alli

[wallace1973]

As soon as I said nice pendulum saw the guy who is a machine dealer said its not for sale.:(

[Lyle]

Is that your Hyco scroll saw in the background?
Lyle.

[hiroller]

There is a 10 min film of manufacturing in the White factory here:
Full record for 'THOMAS WHITE & SONS PAISLEY' (3223) - Moving Image Archive catalogue (http://movingimage.nls.uk/film/3223)

[Vann]

My daughter and I have just got back from a trip up the North Island, visiting rellys.

Stopped at a timber museum just south of Putaruru (on SH1 in case anybody wants to look it up in the future). I regret that I was short of time, and space on my camera's memory card (and that I'm not a better photographer).

However, I took these photos of a White model "SO" on display...

405033 405034 405035

405036 "Beltless Drive" motor tag.

The motor pivots, and has a very interesting (and slightly un-nerving first try) upward arc in it's travel - which is, of course, how it provides a straight cut. I wish I'd had more time to suss the Watts linkage.

Anyways, posted for you amusement. Enjoy.

Cheers, Vann.

[Allison74]

My daughter and I have just got back from a trip up the North Island, visiting rellys.

Stopped at a timber museum just south of Putaruru (on SH1 in case anybody wants to look it up in the future). I regret that I was short of time, and space on my camera's memory card (and that I'm not a better photographer).

However, I took these photos of a White model "SO" on display...

405033 405034 405035

405036 "Beltless Drive" motor tag.

The motor pivots, and has a very interesting (and slightly un-nerving first try) upward arc in it's travel - which is, of course, how it provides a straight cut. I wish I'd had more time to suss the Watts linkage.

Anyways, posted for you amusement. Enjoy.

Cheers, Vann.


Thanks for the pics Vann, I would love to find one of them, they just look so cool.
I'll add the pics to my collection of SO pics if you don't mind.

Thanks again,
Have fun,
Alli

[Vann]

..I'll add the pics to my collection of SO pics if you don't mind.I don't mind. I only wish I'd got more and better pikkies.

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

...I only wish I'd got more and better pikkies.

I don't know about "better", but I've got two "more".

425039 Right hand side.

425040 Manufacturer's tag.

Edit: Looking back at Allison's cattledog cut, I see this is a No.2 "SO" (as the motor tag says 6hp 1430 rpm) which means this is the bigger model and takes up to a 26" blade.

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

...Their SO is really interesting. design. Unlike a conventional pendulum saw this one cuts horizontal like a radial arm.
391738
Here's another cattledog cut (photographed today).

427163

I don't fancy ordering one by telegraph - I'd get those code letters mixed for sure :doh:.

Cheers, Vann.

[Allison74]

Hi Vann,
Thanks for those pics!
A White catalogue....!
Thanks.
Have fun,
Alli

[Vann]

...A White catalogue....!Better still (with thanks to AndyT on ukworkshop). I hope the link works.

https://www.scosarg.com/browse_leaflets?brand=White

Cheers, Vann.

[Allison74]

Hi Vann,
Thanks for that.
Lots of interesting stuff there. I looked for someone's Stenner saw catalogue but no luck, he'll just have to be patient.:q
The only Pickles machine there was the stair trencher.

The leaflet for the SO was obviously a much newer one than the one I have so they clearly made the saw for quite a few years before they disappeared in 1975. Part of the great British machinery massacre that saw Wadkin left alone after a great spree of some great "entrepreneur"/ money grubbing A.., buying out the competition and asset stripping.
That style of pendulum saw and the later variants continued for years in the Euro machine market.

Thanks again!!

Have fun,
Alli:U

[wallace1973]

That's a great resource Vann, I thought all of the manuals had gone. Have you seen the history section, its a bit of a disgrace that a company of Daltons repute cant be bothered to get the correct story. I mean John Wadkin

[Vann]

...I looked for someone's Stenner saw catalogue but no luck, he'll just have to be patient...Yeah I looked for that too, also at the museum where I found the other White catalogue.

But Camoz seems to have dropped off the face of the Earth. He hasn't posted for nearly a year, and he had a few health issues before that. I sincerely hope he's still with us. I put out some feelers before Christmas, but nobody has confirmed they've made contact.

Cheers, Vann.

[auscab]

Here's another cattledog cut (photographed today).

427163

I don't fancy ordering one by telegraph - I'd get those code letters mixed for sure :doh:.

Cheers, Vann.

Nice pictures from that catalogue Vann . Great link too . I have a lovely white chisel and chain I purchased from Matty a while back .
Its earlier than the machines in the link . Probably 20s . Ill have to show it off . or did Matty show it here when it was his ?

Rob

[Vann]

...I have a lovely white chisel and chain I purchased from Matty a while back .
Its earlier than the machines in the link . Probably 20s . Ill have to show it off . or did Matty show it here when it was his ?Nope - you'll have to show it off :).

Cheers, Vann.

[auscab]

Nice old piece . Mattys catalog picture as well.
Originally flat belt driven , its now got a 3 phase motor mounted on the side.
429391429387429388429389

429392429393

Rob

[Vann]

And back on topic again...

I went to look at a saw today. Actually, I went to look at three saws, but then saw a fourth. At first glance I thought it was a Wadkin CC, or maybe an AC as it didn't look quite right for a CC (there are several variations and at least three different motor types on CCs).

443816

But when I got closer I could see it wasn't a Wadkin at all.

443815

It's a White ED - same as Woodlogics (but with a bit more rust).

443814

443813

Enjoy.

Cheers, Vann.

[auscab]

What a sight !
Why were they there, was it for building a house nearby or was it a workshop or mill at some stage ?

Rob

[Vann]

...Why were they there, was it for building a house nearby or was it a workshop or mill at some stage ?The guy didn't say. He was a bit quiet and maybe a bit reclusive. There was no evidence of a mill, only a partially completed house (but who needs four radio alarm saws to build a house?).

443829 Wadkin CK 1011 of 1946.

443828 Wadkin CC 3739 of 1962

And if you look carefully under the 'tail' of that CC, you can just make out a Trojan radio alarm saw.

443827

They've all been out in the rain for several years (judging by the depth of rust on the CK).

All rather sad really :C.

Cheers, Vann.

[Vann]

I had a chance to take another look at the ED yesterday afternoon, and took the opportunity to photograph some details of the machine.

Intergral electrical switchgear cabinet,

444168

Knob on the blade cover.

444167 Not as practical as the 'star' knob on a Wadkin - but much cuter.

On/Off switch (which may or may not be a White item).

444166 I love the little hinged cover on the Stop button.

Motor.

444162 Very 'steam punk'.

Wheel out front for height adjustment.

444163

Towards the back, between the arm and the carriage track is the tilt mechanism.
444160 444164 444165 Lovely.

Unfortunately the weather has had its wicked way with this saw. Restoration is no longer just a derust and paint. Here's an indication of the depth of rust on the carriage rails

444161

I can't see the carriage tracking accurately on those rails when derusted. Time for new rails. Many other steel parts are also suspect (cast iron having weathered better - as it does), and everything appears seized.

Cheers, Vann.

[hiroller]

Beauty and sadness.

[MilesH]

Leaflet on the Thomas White Patent Straight line Crosscut Type E.D.
Thomas White & Sons - Publication Reprints - Thomas White & Sons Patent Crosscut Saw Type E.D. | VintageMachinery.org (http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=24805)

Miles

[MilesH]

1937 patent relating to Thomas White & Sons E.D.

483643

[MilesH]

Relevant Thomas White patent from 1935

483684

[Vann]

Beauty and sadness.

This one sold on Trademe this afternoon:

518834

518833

For a mere $62.00 NZD.

518835

It was still at $1 this time yesterday and I feared that I might be forced to bid. It's in Auckland (750km away), and I don't have room. Luckily someone else is saving it from the scrappy.

Apparently in much better condition than the previous rusty ED.

Cheers, Vann.