Cheapest adequate dust handling

[occam]

The postings here tell me about all kinds of dust systems; from factory sized machines with ducted dust removal, to home vacuums and dust masks.
I am uncertain: what is the minimum needed?
I do not have a 'real' workshop but use the guest room (free 10 to 11 months per year), so all installations are removable. Large stuff is handled outdoors. Until I got a router dust was no problem, but now those things and the table saw produce 'too much' dust. Worse, I need to work on MDF sometimes, too.

I see several cheap solutions:
1) use a home vacuum and somehow make its pipe fit the tools dust removal ducts
2) use the home vacuum with a triton dust collection bag
3) use a special 'shop vac' (which?)
4) use a good respirator and keep the door tightly closed

but I do not know which of these - or some other - methods gives the best results.

Comments?

[Two-Words]

Triton Respirator ;)

[zenwood]

I see several cheap solutions:
1) use a home vacuum and somehow make its pipe fit the tools dust removal ducts
2) use the home vacuum with a triton dust collection bag
3) use a special 'shop vac' (which?)
4) use a good respirator and keep the door tightly closed
Comments?
I wouldn't use the home vacuum. It'll clog up very quickly and won't be effective. I'm not familiar with the triton dust collection bag: I assume if it's designed to be used with a home vacuum then it would be ok. A shop vac should be OK (any reputable brand should be ok).

I wouldn't work in a close up room, even with a respirator. Open the door and window, and get a fan to push the air out of the window, creating a flow of fresh air drawn in throught the door. The room is ventilated, and you don't get dust in the house (unless the wind is blowing in the wrong direction).

HTH

[Just George]

A Triton Dust Bucket is around $45(give or take a few dollars), then you can convery that to a Cyclone if you wish - you can find the plans for that here. It works with a standard house hold vac. What sort of saw are you using? If it is a Triton, consider a Dust Bag and a lot of the dust will be caught in that, which would then be aided by the Dust Bucket/Cyclone.

Woody

[NewLou]

Gidday occam:)

At the end of the day Based on your post I just would'nt go under a 1.5 HP dust collection system typically found at carb-a-tec etc espically if using fabricated boards like MDF Chipboard etc etc..............this is shocken stuff & the potential damage done to lungs kids n the environment etc etc is often underestimated!!

......................personally I dont think ya can put a price on ya health the family & the rest of the issues mentioned. Check out here:

http://svc010.bne011i.server-web.com/catalogue/carbatec2/cache/header-1106public__0-0.html?cache=no


......................For me adequate dust handling is hassle free dust handling!!!


REgards Lou

[Robert34]

I have a question for the home users of dust collectors.

How do you dispose of the dust.

Robert34

[johnc]

Wood dust dump in the garden, MDF dust into the bin, that is my basic rule of thumb but in the end volume might mean direct to the tip. We have very poor soil and any dust or chips really help by adding organic matter.

JohnC

[journeyman Mick]

Probably not the answer you want, but the very cheapest adequate dust handling is to work outside. Next best is to work with a powerful fan at your back blowing it all outside. In a room inside your house you won't have cheap dust handling that's adequate. it will get through the rest of the house, especially if using mdf. :( Even with a full on system you'll still end up with fine dust through your house.

Mick

[occam]

It seems that outside work is the way to go. However, there is a secondary(?) issue: the dust etc clogs up the power tools..

No, I do not have a Triton - when I want to use one I visit my son.
The power tools I have now are mostly cheap (several GMC), so important equipment will change.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Assuming you're only using powertools with dust ports in the 1-2" range, your household vac will do. When you can afford it, buy a Triton dustbucket to go inline and you won't regret it. This'll fit almost any vac, you don't need other Triton tools for it to work. ;)

It's also worth giving thought to making a removable frame to fit an open window and mounting an extractor fan in it. If your existing window-frames won't support such an arrangement, you can always replace a pane of glass with some marine ply and mount a fan in that. Store the glass somewhere safe in case you need to put it back!

Oh, and make sure you open another window or provide some similar method for getting fresh air back into the room... the idea's to blow the fine dust outside, not suffocate yourself. ;)

The above are what I consider the bare minimums for working indoors; we all want better in our sheds. [shrug]

[Stu in Tokyo]

Good question, and good answers.

A long time ago I made my first "DC", I saw the Triton dust bucket but here in Japan they wanted too much money for it, so I made one out of plywood, and hooked up a house vacuum that I got out of the garbage here. It sucked, just enough that I was happy with it for a while, when I only used my tools very occasionally.

Since moving into the Dungeon, I had no choice but to build a real system.

I think the idea of a cross flow of air, big box fan in the door and an open window is good, and somekind of vacuum cleaner.

If you buy a shop vac, buy a good one!

One VERY nice feature is the one where you plug your tool into the vac, and when you use the tool the vac turns on by itself.

Very cool.

Good luck!

[Luddite]

Stu makes an interesting point about the vacuum and your tool turning on together.

It is possible to buy a switch that you press with your foot to activate both machines at once, it's looks a bit like a sewing machine pedal.

You put the switch directly into the power point, a power board onto the output of the switch, and when you press the switch all the machines attached to the power board come on / off together; easy. It makes things so much quieter in the workshop because you do not have to manually turn off a series of machines, they all go quiet at the same time.

I can't remember exactly which electronics company sold mine to me, but I think it was Dick Smith. I am certain they are readily available at many places.

Maybe this will help,

Anthony

[silkwood]

If you're looking for a suggestion for a shop-vac I have been using the Lavor GBX (about $350 from Glenfords). It has auto switching (comes on with the power tool and perfoms brilliantly (so far), particularly when hooked up to a mini-cyclone.

Not the cheapest item I know but I think it is worth the money and WHEN you do get a more serious system (just after you buy your third router and your eighth plane) it will do great duty for the smaller tools. :)

[occam]

I checked Bill Pentz site on dust.. scary. Seems that proper dust collection needs new, professional ($$$) tools (with large dust collection ports) to start with.
SWMBO has told me that the dust my woodworking produces clogs the filters on the vacuum cleaners, meaning I must get a shop vac anyhow. They start from $49.95 (GMC RDC8L), which also has a "dust collection" function.
Other shop vacs did not list 'dust collection' amongst their features, but I only checked 3 or 4 of them.

Since (according to Bill Pentz) I cannot get the job done properly (indoors) anyhow, I will just use that contraption, but ensure good ventilation - and do all MDF work outdoors.

But I wonder: would there be any real improvement if the dust 'vacuum' was placed outside, or maybe just blowed it exhaust outside ?

[Bodgy]

Occam

When you were on the Pentz (Dust extraction guru extrordinaire) site, you would have seem his designs for cyclones. These are cheap to make, just sheet metal and pop rivets basically, and there are examples on this Forum of people who have made small ones to run with vacuum cleaners.

Suggest you do a Forum search on 'cyclone'. The overwhelming evidence is that a good cyclone will trap nearly all the fine dust (plus everything else) and neither clag your shop vac nor leave you breathing recycled carcinogens.

[Bulli]

Occam

Well done for reading Pentz's site - sounds like you realise how serious it is. The bit I remember choking on (excuse the pun) was his statement (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm#Background):


Four hours of hobbyist woodworking can create more fine dust exposure for us, those close to us, and even our pets than over a year of working in a regulated commercial facility.
Sobering - (though it could explain why the dog has the odd inexplicable spew:D ).

For my money, I've gone with the Triton system with an old vac from Godfrey's. I'll upgrade it to a cyclone when I get the chance - probably cost less than $20.

What price do you put on your health and that of those around you - that's the question, I reckon.

Bulli.

[Stu in Tokyo]

I just recently built a cyclone based on Mr. Pentz's design, and all I can say is "Why did I wait so long?"

You can see the beginning of my Cyclone Saga here....

Cyclone Saga Page 1 (http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/cyclone.htm)

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/cyclone/cyclone_finished%21.jpg

here is a pic of the clean out box at the bottom of the filter stack...

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/cyclone/filter_stack_cleanout_drawer_check.jpg

Yep, after running about 30 to 40 litres of dust through it (dust bin less than half full) I got next to nothing for dust. This is after lightly beating the filter stack, and using compressed air to blow from the outside of the filters to dislodge any dust on them.

Nothing, zip, nadda, zilch....

I'm one happy camper!

Cheers!

[occam]

A cyclone looks like the best dust collector, and when I have to move the workshop to a new shed (my wife has strongly hinted that too much woodworking should not be done indoors) I will have the space for it; I am NOT allowed to build a cyclone into the guest room.

But how can power tools that are not designed for efficient dust collection (says Bill Pentz) be managed??

[Sturdee]

But how can power tools that are not designed for efficient dust collection (says Bill Pentz) be managed??

By connecting them to a mini cyclone( which you build yourself) powered with an ordinary vacuum cleaner. It remains small and portable and surprisingly it works.


The simplest way of building one is to buy the Triton dust bucket and convert it into a Sturdee mini cyclone as per my post (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=17427) or you can adapt it like others have done just by using plastic buckets.

Peter.

[outback]

There are undoubtably several little sturdee cyclone buckets around. I like the mini version of the real BP design. Gives an insight into cyclones and what to expect if you scale up to the big sucker. However Sturdee's is certainly quick, easy and efficient. Either way, a lil cyclone is better than none.

[boban]

Stu I saw your website a little while ago and must congratulate you on your workmanship WRT the cyclone.

[Stu in Tokyo]

Stu I saw your website a little while ago and must congratulate you on your workmanship WRT the cyclone.

Thank you very much!!!

........ah......being a Canuck, I.......ah.......I'm not familiar with "WRT"....translation? :o

Cheers! :D

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

But how can power tools that are not designed for efficient dust collection (says Bill Pentz) be managed??

Any hand powertool that has a dust-bag option can easily be fitted to a vac. The ones with rectangular ports may need a home-made adapter, but they're fairly simple to make in any home.

Tools that don't have any dust-ports, eg. most routers, lathes or drills, etc. can also be used with a vac. Simply knock together a scoop to go on the end of the vac line and use something to hold it in an appropriate position. It won't collect everything but, properly positioned, it will collect most of the fine air-borne stuff that your wife complains about drifting through the house. ;)

Either way, designed for efficient dust collection or not, some is far better than none.


BTW, just to clarify something I think you may've missed:

The triton dustbucket has an in-built filter that traps down to a very small size, although not in the 3-5micron range of a true-blue dust collector. I literally haven't needed to empty the shop-vac bag once in the last couple of years! But when you empty the dustbucket you do need to clean the filter.

The advantage of a small inline cyclone is that it doesn't rely on filters at all, only centripetal force. After a week of using my home-built Sturdee cyclone (all the time I had before my shop-vac died for other reasons) I noticed about 1 tablespoon of fine dust in the vac's bag, which meant that my conversion of the dust-bucket wasn't as efficient as leaving in the filter... but IMHO this was more than made up for by the fact I didn't have to clean the damned filter again. ;)

[ian]

But how can power tools that are not designed for efficient dust collection be managed??Well one way is to put them on a shelf and leave them there!
You're WW for fun aren't you, so speed is not the primary objective.
Doing your shaping with hand tools will produce a lot less dust.

However, if you must sand, shape and cut with power tools within the house my suggestion is to mount a LARGE exhaust fan and filter in the window to turn the room you're using into a negative pressure zone. This will keep the dust you're generating within the room and out of the rest of the house. Blowing the dust outside most probably means it just re-enters the house through another door or window.

In my case I've decided the family's health is worth staying away from MDF as much as possible and investing in a Festo dust extractor for the portable tools.

[zenwood]

...I'm not familiar with "WRT"....translation?"With respect to" or "with regard to"

see http://www.acronymfinder.com

[Stu in Tokyo]

"With respect to" or "with regard to"

see http://www.acronymfinder.com

Thanks!

But who say "With Respect to" in normal speech........ ;)

Oh the many tribes of English :D

Cheers!