Shou Sugi Ban - Does anyone have any advice based on experience?

[TychoCaine]

Hello All,

For the past couple of months I've been experimenting with Shou Sugi Ban... refer youtube or other threads if you're not sure what it is.

I am looking for some practical advice, hopefully from anyone who may have experimented with the technique and used it in a real world application... preferably externally and preferably for cladding as per the traditional use.
This post (https://pursuingwabi.com/2007/11/05/shou-sugi-ban/) (or more specifically the comments below it) has been the most helpful thing I've found but I'm still no closer to where I need to be.... there are so many knowledgeable people on here I'm hoping someone might be able to help.

My main issue is ongoing char rub off which I have been unable to solve.... Like most people who are trying it now I'm using a propane torch (weed burner) and then a wire brush to remove loose char before washing.
Irrespective of which species I use (I have tried a variety so far - some soft, some hard) or how hot/close the torch is, char continues to rub off when the wood is touched... the only way to avoid this is to wire brush and wash so heavily that I remove almost all of the char which defeat the purpose of the process (also this only works with softwood, not hardwood).

I'm reasonably sure the issue is with my finishing process and my understanding is traditionally the wood is oiled with Pure Tung oil... I've tried that (upto 3 coats with 48 hours drying time between each) and it makes no difference... the char continues to rub off. Internal clear coats (estapol etc) lock the char in but they obviously aren't suitable for external use.

I'm interested in the process because I love the look and everything I've read says once the process is done (correctly) you can leave the timber exposed for years without any maintenance.... hence I want to avoid any kind of surface sealing product that needs to be re-applied regularly. I'm also pretty sure the wire brushing is not even required as many people apply a heavy burn to softwood to create an alligatoring/leather effect which they leave exposed... that surface leaves your hands black at the slightest touch and is reasonably fragile so I assume they're relying on the oil to keep it looking the way they want.

All of the articles and videos I've found show the burning process in detail at the beginning of a project but no one talks about the oiling and controlling the char rub/wash off and no one ever posts follow ups in the future where they discuss how the timber is performing in the months and years after the first burn.

So, does anyone have any advice that might help?
- Am I putting the oil on too quickly? IE Do I need to just first leave the timber exposed to the elements so the char will be blown/washed off by the weather?
- Is there a different oil I should be using? Overseas they use a product called Penofin (which I can't find here) and (ironically) a product called Cabots Australian Timber Oil, which is a linseed/tung blend that of course is not sold here.
- Am I just expecting too much from the process? Is char rub/run off just the daily reality of the Shou Sugi Ban process and no one talks about it?
- Is there something that I need to do AFTER the oiling? In one of the most prominent youtube videos they re-torch the wood AFTER it's oiled... just a lick and they mention something about sealing the oil in... I haven't tried this (but will shortly).

Any advice would be most appreciated and of course I'm more than happy to share what I've learned with anyone who's interested (although I don't claim to be any kind of expert and I have very little experience with wood finishing in general).

Thanks,

TC

[Shedhand]

Are you looking for a smooth clean charred finish or the more traditional "charcoal" look because it seems, from reading the information available, the different finishes require different methods.
cheers
sheddie

[old1955]

Welcome to the forum TC.

Ross

[woodPixel]

Are you making small things like boxes and furniture with it? Ive only ever seen it done like that with one species, but can't remember which. It looked mighty impressive.

For outside work, Ive only read it done with Cedar.

What imbers are you using?

[TychoCaine]

Hello All,

Shedhand - I am actually aiming to achieve both finishes for separate parts of the project and my research so far says while the techniques are indeed different the difference is relatively minor and comes down to how much you brush (if at all) after burning. I am using the aligatored (heavily charred) timber internally and I had the best results by just finishing it with a couple of coats of estapol straight after burning. That has worked fantastically on my internal samples and I am very happy with the results... the main difference in process there is that you don't wire brush at all... you just burn and then coat. For my external timber, I am heavily wire brushing which gives the smoother look but alas it just keeps rubbing off on my hands.... it's totally waterproof thanks to the tung oil (water just beads on the surface) but the char still rubs off.

Ross - Thanks for the welcome.. I have been reading the forum for quite some time but just realised that was my first post!

woodPixel - My project is a house. I have 100 lineal meters of baltic pine boards heavily charred for internal use (and they are looking amazing) and will have (if I can seal it properly) 400 lineal meters of re-machined Jarrah for the external cladding. The pine (being a softwood?) alligators beautifully with very little heat and then gives the same finish you'll see in all the videos depending on how it's treated. The Jarrah has a much denser grain (being a hardwood?) and turns a nice smooth black with what I call medium heat... it does alligator slightly (very fine cracks / shapes) if very intense heat is applied for a long time but honestly I think if that's the effect one wants you're better off with a softwood. I have chosen Jarrah for the external cladding because it is cheap, abundant and most importantly, class 2 durability so if the process does not work or fails/breaks down after a few years the cladding will still function, unlike a softwood which could break down or require significant maintenance (just my opinion). I think this is prudent given the resurgence in this finishing technique is so recent (2007 at the earliest with very little long term data on how well the "modern" process stands up over time).

I have also tried the process with Cedar, Radiata Pine & Oregon (similar results to the baltic pine) and (with similar results to the Jarrah) Tasmanian Oak, Meranti & something I think was spotted gum (it was left over in my offcut bins and I hadn't labeled it). For your reference almost everyone on youtube/blogs etc does it to cedar, I believe because in the US there's a lot of it and also the process in japan is applied to Japanese Cedar. Having said that I did find one resource that said "Japanese Cedar" was actually a type of cypress and western red cedar was not appropriate as a target for the process.... I am inclined to write that off as one person's bad experience.

If there's anyone else in Adelaide experimenting with the finish drop me a line... more than happy to pool resources and show some of my test pieces if anyone is interested.

TC

[TychoCaine]

So I know it's probably not cool to respond to your own post but no one seems to have much to say on this technique so I just thought I'd post an update.
Since my original post I have had 4 samples sitting outside in the weather facing east... in that time we've had some 30 degree days and some very intense rain and hail so they are a weathered and exposed to UV.
They all still look great and are as black as they were on day 1 except for my un-oiled sample which has lightened off quite a bit (no doubt from the heavy rain).

As of today:
- The 2 heavily wire brushed samples with 3 coats of tung oil are not exhibiting any char rub off, wet or dry (Success)
- The heavily wire brushed sample with 2 coats of tung oil exhibits no rub off when dry and a very small (barely noticeable) amount when wet (success and the technique I'll be using moving forward).
- The unbrushed sample with 1 coat of tung oil still exhibits rub off whether wet or dry.

Good luck to anyone else who attempts this in the future!

TC

[themage21]

Thanks TC for your updates - I have been watching, but haven't had anything useful to add.

I'm looking into having a go at this myself as well, so fingers crossed I can use your research to improve my own results!

Out of interest, what are you using to scorch the timber?

[TychoCaine]

Thanks TC for your updates - I have been watching, but haven't had anything useful to add.

I'm looking into having a go at this myself as well, so fingers crossed I can use your research to improve my own results!

Out of interest, what are you using to scorch the timber?

I tried with some hand held propane/butane torches from bunnings for my very first test but it quickly became obvious it was no good.
I then bought a roofing torch from an ebay merchant for about $50 which was a complete waste of time and was returned 15 minutes after pickup when I realised it wasn't safe to use.
This (http://www.jamesshields.com.au/shop/item/wbk03) is the only thing I've found and at less than $100 it was totally worth it. I got mine from Supagas here in Adelaide and I think they stock it generally wherever they are... I paid $90 for mine.
(I don't have any relationship to the supplier or retailer... just stating what I bought and from where).

TC

[rob streeper]

Interesting thread. Can you give us some specifics such as the depth to which you're burning your timbers? How specifically are you doing the burning? Pictures would help.

Thanks,
Rob

[rob streeper]

Interesting thread. Can you give us some specifics such as the depth to which you're burning your timbers? How specifically are you doing the burning? Pictures would help.

Thanks,
RobNo response = "No"?

[TychoCaine]

Hi Rob,

My slow response is in part because I'm busy in the lead-up to Christmas and in part because I have struggled to get some decent photos.. I have attached the best I could do but my camera isn't great and all of my samples have been either out in the weather or in my open shed (deliberately) for the last month or so and are covered in dust and dirt. Anyway to answer your questions:

Depth of burn...
varies depending on the species and desired aesthetic. I have found with the Jarrah that if I don't really hit it hard (IE at least 2mm) then the char does not go deep enough and the wire brushing removes almost all of it (refer below image).

402569

With the burner I'm using it doesn't seem to matter how much heat I put into the Jarrah it doesn't catch on fire and it only alligators on the edges which is fine for what I need but it also means the deepest burn I can get on the Jarrah is about 2mm (without wasting a lot of gas which I haven't tried yet).

The 3 samples below were burned to about 2mm and then wire brushed and hit with 2 coats of Tung Oil. They have been outside for about 2 months and are weathering really well. The first 2 images are the front faces that were burned, the third image is one of the back faces which had no direct flame applied to it (you can see there's less char depth in the damaged part of the timber).

402570402571 402572

Here's what they look like when wet:

402573

I am vaguely concerned because on day one after the second coat of tung oil, water applied to the surface would bead up like magic... after a couple of months in the sun it doesn't bead anymore but still seems to be being repelled.... I'm not sure if that's normal for Tung Oil... hopefully someone can chime in... I really hope it's not breaking down that quickly.

Still on the topic of depth but now changing species to Baltic pine (which I plan to use internally)... all of these samples have a finish coat of either matt estapol or something similar (depending on what I had handy at the time):

402574402575

Above is a light char (around 1mm, not enough to alligator the wood) with a very heavy wire brush... as you can see it's really not much different than using a 2 coat stain technique where you distress the grain and get that 2 tone look. In person though it looks quite a bit different... the burned parts of the wood have a beautiful sheen I've never seen on any of my staining tests (but I concede I'm pretty clueless on finishing techniques generally).

402576

Same thing but with a light whitewash I made from a 50% acrylic paint/water mix wiped off before it got too dry... Internally some of the boards I have are for charring and some are for whitewashing... decided to see what happened if I combined the two but it didn't really work.

402577

The one above came out surprisingly well... it was a sanded pine board that I repeatedly charred lightly so it got a lot of heat but it never caught fire and alligatored. I didn't brush it at all and touching it leaves your hands black but once I put a couple of coats of estapol on it it was fine... looks really beautiful but a black stain would probably do the same thing.

These last 2 are fully aligatored... I hit them with a lot of heat until they caught on fire and then I let the fire burn a little before hitting them with a hose. I would say the char depth here is at least 2mm but probably more like 3mm.

402578402579

They aren't wire brushed at all (it destroys the finish) but they have 2 coats of estapol on them and look pretty sexy.

How I am doing the burning..
Not much to share here really... I light up the torch and just blast them for maybe 10 seconds in any one spot (less for the pine unless I want alligatoring). then I just move the flame slowly up and down. I have my boards resting on an old shopping trolly base that I got at a scrap yard... that way I can easily move around and up and down... although I did accidentally set fire to one of the wheels once.

In relation to my previous posts...

re char rub off - this still happens on anything without a "finish" coat. Everything shown above is now fine... Jarrah oiled with the tung oil still gives char rub off but after a day in the sun and a brief spray with the hose this stops. All of the internal samples appear stable and they don't give any rub off either... it stops as soon as they have a coat of estapol or poly.

re finishing products - I confirmed with cabots (Dulux) that the product most people use overseas (refer my first post) is definitely not available in the AU market and they have nothing like it in their range... they recommended a traditional external product which I'm not interested in.

re additional post-oiling charring - I still have not tried this as my external cladding samples (Jarrah) lost their char rub off after 2 coats of Tung Oil and a couple of days in the weather.... I consider them to be a success and will likely use them as my cladding depending on a couple of other annoying factors that have appeared.

Still very keen to hear from other people that are experimenting, or anyone who has anything positive to offer re the approach I've taken so far... criticism and advice is more than welcome as long as it's constructive!

Rob - On a vaguely related note are you aware you live in what I consider to be the birthplace of modern Shou Sugi Ban? If I lived in Texas I would just call up Delta Millworks and buy their products. I believe they are one of the main companies responsible for the resurgence of the technique and they have done a lot of work bringing it to market in the US. As much fun as it is to re-invent the wheel I do wish someone in Australia was doing something similar that I could just buy off the shelf.

cheers & seasons greetings,

TC

[rob streeper]

Hi TC,

Thanks for your response. Do you know anything about the use of silicones or driers and natural oils on the charred timber?

I generally try to make if I can. I looked at the Austin co. website, very interesting. My wife really likes the look so you know what that means...

Cheers,
Rob

[TychoCaine]

Hi TC,

Thanks for your response. Do you know anything about the use of silicones or driers and natural oils on the charred timber?

I generally try to make if I can. I looked at the Austin co. website, very interesting. My wife really likes the look so you know what that means...

Cheers,
Rob

Hi Rob,

I don't know anything about Silicones but my external Jarrah is all oiled with 100% pure tung oil. I have also heard you can have good results with 100% Linseed oil but I haven't tried that yet... I believe they are both considered to be natural oils. I'm afraid I don't know exactly what a drier is so can't offer much in that regard.

I can definitely relate to your last comment...my wife also loves the way the cladding is shaping up... it's very fiddly and labour intensive but I think worth it for the beautiful outcome... the photos really don't do it justice. The biggest issue is that it's a very tactile material... you see it and immediately want to touch it, at which point you get char all over your hands! Hence my quest to seal it... I'm pretty much there now but it's meant an additional "layer" of labour I was hoping to avoid (IE the additional coats of oil).

Good Luck,
TC

[rob streeper]

Sorry, I should have been explicit. I meant Japan Drier, commonly used with linseed oil to accelerate polymerization (drying) of the oil. Typically these are organic soluble salts of iron, manganese and cobalt. Seems like they'd work nicely as a coating of the char but this is all new to me.

[q9]

Nothing to add, but it certainly looks like the real deal. Still done, but modern houses are, err, usually more modern in design and panel clad. I'll ask around, as there could be people that still do it as a profession.

[Arron]

Hey TC, are you still with us. Able to give an update on this project
Cheers
Arron

[TychoCaine]

Hi Arron,

I am still here but don't have much to add... and interest/commentary seemed to fall off so I stopped adding to the thread.
My 3 best external samples have been sitting out in the weather facing east for almost a year and the results are good.
They look (visually) exactly the same as they did on day 1 but there's no char rub off at all anymore, wet or dry, which is a great outcome.
Unfortunately however when they are wet the water doesn't bead the way it used to.... I would assume the Tung Oil has broken down in some way.
For me that probably means I won't proceed with using them externally... I want something I don't need to maintain.

My internal samples (mostly pine) still look great and the various clear coats I used have all held up well with no char rub off so I'm totally confident to use the technique internally.

Happy to answer any other questions anyone might have.

TC

[Arron]

Ok, thanks.

I’m new at this but will be building a house in a year or two and may use some Sugi ban in limited spots, but I don’t want anything high maintenance.

I would like to get your thoughts, though, on whether the focus on char runoff and oil is misplaced. I understood what the old-time Japanese were doing was producing a surface that didn’t need any finish. Any finish - including oiling. If it’s dependent on oiling, then won’t there be a lot of recoating?

Also, I wonder whether they would have been concerned about char ruboff. Why do you need to touch the external surface anyway? Obviously it’s not something you might want around a doorway, but if you know it’s there then the ruboff is relatively easy to manage, I’d imagine?

Or from another angle, aren’t ocassional black hands a small price to pay for a beautiful and maintenance free surface?

Just wondering
Arron

[TychoCaine]

Hi Arron, Good comments and I'm glad to have someone to chat without about it.

My interest in SSB is similar to yours... I wanted a low maintenance finish that I could do myself... the fact that it's black and looks awesome was a huge added bonus.

I share your concerns about re-coating and that's why I've done so much testing. I've found maybe 50 different online conversation threads, youtube videos etc and they all recommend oiling it at the end but no one says why and the techniques and types of oil all vary. The best resource I found was a conversation thread on permies where people mentioned oiling for either durability or colour fastness.

For me personally char rub is an issue because I have it as cladding that returns into an outdoor terrace that has a bench seat so you're leaning on it... and I also have it returning through a window as an internal cladding.
But I've discovered that oiled or not, the char rub/run off stops after a few days in the rain or a couple of soaks with a hose so I'm less concerned about that now.

For what it's worth I think the main reason for oiling is that when you take a softwood timber and do a heavy char then wire brush it (which is what most people do) you end up with a zebra type finish where you see both charred and un-charred grain... the un-charred grain is not protected in any way from moisture or UV and so will be a source of rot or fading, hence you oil it (and re-oil it year after year). If you do a heavy char and don't do a hardcore wire brush (IE the gatored look that's like leather) then there's probably no need at all to oil it... I'm pretty sure that's the traditional Japanese look... they just wire brush to get the loose dust off... not to raise the grain and make it looks different.

I won't be oiling it... the samples I've done appear to be weather resistant enough for my needs and they have stayed black and sexy looking. I'm also using Jarrah as my base timber so even if water gets into the wood or the charred surface breaks down it's going to be fine externally.

If I was you I'd just buy a torch and some timber and make some samples now... leave them out for your "year or two" and see how they look.

You need to be careful how you detail the cladding too but that's a separate discussion I'm happy to have if you're interested.

TC

[Arron]

Thanks. Your reply is comprehensive and pretty much wraps it up.

When you talk about ‘detail the cladding’, that’s about making sure it’s still weatherfast at the joints, I presume?

[TychoCaine]

Hi Arron,

Re detailing yes that's what I mean... any part of the wood that's not charred is vulnerable to moisture.

If you're using boards that aren't profiled on the edges then you're using what's called a 'rainscreen' where the wood is purely decorative and it's the building wrap behind that's the building's water protection layer. This is very common in europe and it's the easiest method to DIY. You leave a 5mm or 10mm gap between the boards and it looks great but I wouldn't recommend this as there's only one building wrap that's UV stable on the australian market (Proctorwrap Black) and it's significantly more expensive than a normal building wrap.

The other option is a profiled board, either home made or off the shelf. Either way you need to choose shiplapped over tongue and groove. There's no way to charr a normal T&G board and still have it fit together, and if you only char the surface then you're back to having to oil for durability.

Of course my cladding runs vertically so if you're happy with horizontal your cheapest, easiest option is standard weatherboards fixed traditionally.

Hope that helps,

TC

[Arron]

Ok. Thanks for all your advice.
Cheers
Arron

[Arron]

What started me thinking about this again is that I went for a walk through a forest burned about 2-3 years ago. I couldn't help noticing that the fire-scorched timber had rotted down just as quickly as the unburnt timber, in fact I think more quickly. That's kind of inevitable really, if there was something magical about scorched timber not rotting then - with a countryside that burns as often as Australia's - we'd all be up to our noses in fire residue.

So I'm wondering if there is really any proof that Shou Sugi Ban really does provide weather-resistance. What makes us think it does ?

Some other thoughts:
Most of the modern practitioners and service providers seem to oil their product, which indicates to me they have no confidence in it working.
The Japanese seem to have plenty of timbers with remarkable natural weather-resistance. Maybe the scorching actually doesn't contribute much at all and doesn't need to.
There are so many myths about Japan here in the West it pays to have a reasonable level of scepticism.
I know charcoal has weather-resistance, but charcoal is made by burning timber in the absence of oxygen. Burning timber with a blowtorch isn't making charcoal - its just making burnt timber.

Not sure about this. Just thinking out loud.

Any thoughts.

Arron

[Enfield Guy]

I came across a mob on Friday at a trade expo that do this very thing.
www.hurfordwholesale.com.au

[Arron]

I came across a mob on Friday at a trade expo that do this very thing.
www.hurfordwholesale.com.au

Good find. It’s interesting to see how it is traditionally done.join three boards,together lengthwise, fill with paper, light and let it burn like a chimney. A very different story to a bloke standing there with a blowtorch - and maybe leading to some significant differences in the outcome.

I’m amazed at how deep he charred it.

[TychoCaine]

For some reason I stopped getting notifications so I'm late to reply but a couple of quick comments:

Arron:
I share your scepticism about the durability, hence all the experiments I've done. If the modern technique was as good as the original triangular deep charring technique (which I assume you saw on youtube EDIT - which hurfords lifted completely from a dwell article) then I agree they wouldn't all be oiling it. The main appeal for me is the aesthetic look but I hate maintenance so as I think I said earlier, I am specifically using jarrah so that if (when?) the charring fails, the timber is robust enough to just weather in place and not cause me any real issues. If I thought the blowtorch version of the technique worked the way everyone claims, I would be using a softer more beautiful timber :)

Enfield Guy:
Fun story about Hurfords timber cladding. Their main cladding product used to be (slowly) roasted in an oven... it was beautiful, smelled amazing and lasted for ages but it still needed oiling and regular maintenance and it was definitely brown, not black plus it looked nothing like SSB. It was the only product of it's kind on the market here and it cost a fortune and (I'm told) didn't sell that well so they pulled it (just the cladding.. not the flooring) from the market a few years ago. Then interest in SSB exploded and now everyone wants to jump on the money train. Don't get me wrong... great company with great products but no one in the cladding world makes anything that is truly maintenance free and I doubt this will be any exception. For what it's worth Eco Timber and Cedar Sales (also good companies with good products) both offer a SSB product as well and they both pre-oil (with Cutek) and recommend ongoing oiling.

EDIT - It's a shame to see that the Hurfords product still needs oiling and is rated BAL-LOW. I'd love to know if they tested it and it failed to score higher, or they just haven't tested it. It's relevant because one of the core claims for SSB is that it has reduced combustibility due to the charring so if that's true it should rate higher than BAL-LOW. If we are very lucky, someone from Hurfords might join this discussion and share some information :)

[q9]

I should probably take a minute to point out that it is rare for a house to remain standing for much longer than 30-50 years in Japan. Not without substantial repairs/remodeling. Before we all get carried away with the idea that there are buildings here dating back a thousand years...well true, but some get torn down and rebuilt on a regular schedule, others fall over and are rebuilt, many have been burnt to the ground and thus been rebuilt, etc.

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

[TychoCaine]

q9:
That's a very good point and I'm glad it's been embedded in the thread.
Personally, I'm not looking for thousands of years... I'd be happy with 30 (which I'll get from the timber, irrespective of whether the SSB technique I'm using holds up over time or not)
(Of course if I was a company bringing a premium product to market, I'd probably want to be 90% sure that it lasts at least 20 years.)

[Enfield Guy]

For some reason I stopped getting notifications so I'm late to reply but a couple of quick comments:

Arron:
I share your scepticism about the durability, hence all the experiments I've done. If the modern technique was as good as the original triangular deep charring technique (which I assume you saw on youtube EDIT - which hurfords lifted completely from a dwell article) then I agree they wouldn't all be oiling it. The main appeal for me is the aesthetic look but I hate maintenance so as I think I said earlier, I am specifically using jarrah so that if (when?) the charring fails, the timber is robust enough to just weather in place and not cause me any real issues. If I thought the blowtorch version of the technique worked the way everyone claims, I would be using a softer more beautiful timber :)

Enfield Guy:
Fun story about Hurfords timber cladding. Their main cladding product used to be (slowly) roasted in an oven... it was beautiful, smelled amazing and lasted for ages but it still needed oiling and regular maintenance and it was definitely brown, not black plus it looked nothing like SSB. It was the only product of it's kind on the market here and it cost a fortune and (I'm told) didn't sell that well so they pulled it (just the cladding.. not the flooring) from the market a few years ago. Then interest in SSB exploded and now everyone wants to jump on the money train. Don't get me wrong... great company with great products but no one in the cladding world makes anything that is truly maintenance free and I doubt this will be any exception. For what it's worth Eco Timber and Cedar Sales (also good companies with good products) both offer a SSB product as well and they both pre-oil (with Cutek) and recommend ongoing oiling.

EDIT - It's a shame to see that the Hurfords product still needs oiling and is rated BAL-LOW. I'd love to know if they tested it and it failed to score higher, or they just haven't tested it. It's relevant because one of the core claims for SSB is that it has reduced combustibility due to the charring so if that's true it should rate higher than BAL-LOW. If we are very lucky, someone from Hurfords might join this discussion and share some information :)
To be honest, I've just posted because i thought the information I found might be helpful. As far as the history of the company or the product is concerned, I'm not sure I really care. My overall view is that exterior timber should be coated with an emulsion of some sort to gain best longevity.

Traditional finishes sometimes look good, and are different, ( satisfying the hipsters) , however, what do you want? A house that lasts, Or a COOL finish for the exterior of your build?

I'll take paint, Ta.

Cheers

[TychoCaine]

Hi Enfield Guy, my apologies if I rubbed you the wrong way.. I'm just trying to make the thread a useful resource for people interested in Shou Sugi Ban.

I think my comments in the thread show clearly I'm not a hipster and that my primary concern is maintenance... but just in case to answer your question definitively - I want a house that lasts.
A cool finish is a nice side effect as long as it doesn't undermine that first goal but I think that's true of any cladding and I would argue we all make performance compromises to suit our aesthetic preferences.

For me personally, paint is the last thing I would consider on any cladding for exactly that reason... I don't like the way it looks and every exterior paint system on the market that I'm aware of requires ongoing maintenance, cleaning and re-application and the warranites are (relatively) short and specifically exclude colour fastness.

I still feel personally that the SSB process applied to a hardwood will either last for the time it's supposed to or it will break down and the wood will silver off (which some people like).
Either way I'll be left with a 'cool looking' cladding system that lasts for the time period I want and requires no maintenance.
For me, that's win/win.

cheers

[Enfield Guy]

"but just in case to answer your question definitively - I want a house that lasts"

Then my strong suggestion would be to do the research, and paint..

[TychoCaine]

Enfield guy you are of course entitled to your opinion but the thread is intended to focus on a specific technique that does not involve paint and a specific subset of that technique that specifically seeks to avoid applying a liquid to a substrate. I'm not sure if you're just having some fun with me but obviously if I wanted to use paint (a synthetic film forming system that breaks down over time when exposed to sunlight, moisture, impact or substrate expansion and contraction) then I would of course paint... but I don't want paint or the maintenance that comes with it. Trying to convince me that it's a better choice or that there's no maintenance with paint doesn't really help enhance the thread.

Cheers

[q9]

Done in the style, not sure about if it is genuine SSB or not. Am told genuine is super expensive, and this is an expensive area, so anything is possible.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171102/28bea352ac7b8a0c7d6d403a331d9614.jpg

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

[Arron]

Interesting. I was just wondering if our Japan-resident forum items could answer the question of whether they actually see any real examples in their travels.

[Arron]

Also, my wife watches that ‘tiny houses’ reality show on TV and twice lately there has been ones done with some measure of SSB. I only really watched one and it seems a couple of guys scorched the outside with a blowtorch. The timber had quite large knots which didn’t take to the burning well,so the knots just showed through as round brown things against a black background. I think it was just a very shallow scorching, but still they were convinced they had done SSB and that was that.

[q9]

Like I said I can't tell if the house is genuine, I suspect the fence is not.

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

[Lappa]

I came across a mob on Friday at a trade expo that do this very thing.
www.hurfordwholesale.com.au (http://www.hurfordwholesale.com.au)

Link doesn’t work. Says Website not found? A search finds the company but website still not found?

[Arron]

Link works fine for me

[Lappa]

That’s strange - Safari

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Chrome

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[Mick C.]

Hi Guys, I put some time into the same thing a short while ago for a new house we almost built.

Same thing as above, wanting no maintenance, but something unique, and I love to build stuff and do things myself.

I've attached some pics and a video of what I build to add speed and consistency, and with the view of maybe doing some for others for a bit of pocket money. As mentioned above, no one does it in Aust, or at least never used to, and the few places I spoke with had black finishes available, but not in the same vein as Yakisugi, and nearly always aimed at interiors and architectural larger buildings.

As I understand it, its the char that does the protecting, there might also be some creosote conversion with the sap and the heating charring process that adds to the level of protection available, and why some timbers are chosen over others.

Anyways, keep up the commentary, its nice to see others with an interest is things like this.

[Arron]

Video not working - at least not for me on iPad. I would love to see it.

Cheers
Arron

[Mick C.]

No idea Arron, not an "I" person, but I know it works on several other computers.

Some extra info I forgot to add, was a lil short on time.


Timber in the pic was a poor defenceless piece of finger joint pine, yes I know that's not suitable, but it was at hand after setting up the feed pinch rollers for testing.

The designed feed rate is 1m/min, the feed rate for the defenceless pine was 2m/min, after seeing the pine erupt into flames with a quick "lets poke this into the end of the now orange inside furnace" i felt it best to run it a full speed.

I have some Box or Gum to try, and maybe some Kwila, but not gotten back to it. I've been slack fitting up a pyrometer to set a known temperature and maybe save some Gas.

Anyways, I thought the surface finish was exactly what I was aiming for. I don't really know, but I imagine the heat the timber is exposed to in the furnace is probably in the ball park for SSB, the traditional Japanese stuff done as three boards in a chimney and it going mental flame wise after only short while, makes me think the furnace approach is suitable. Another reason was that if the boards are cut to length first, the ends also get charred and protected all in one go.

[TychoCaine]

Late to my own party but Mick C thanks so much for adding to the thread.
Your pictures look great and the rig you've constructed makes me jealous!
(the video works for me and it's very inspiring)

The finish in your second picture is great... how robust is the finish?
(I'm guessing not great on pine)

You said for a house you 'almost' built... what happened to the rig in your video?
Did you end up using it for yourself or anyone else?

TC

[madwilson]

Video not working - at least not for me on iPad. I would love to see it.

Cheers
Arron

Hi Aaron, I am looking at the forum in Tapatalk on my iPad and the link works fine for me. It was a bit slow to load which could flummox safari


Cheers
Mark

[Mick C.]

Hi All, sorry for the tardy reply, seems some alerts never made it through over the xmas break.

Still have the contraption, the furnace is sitting in the shed waiting for me to complete the pyrometer installation, probe fitted but needing the display mounted in a box and some connectors added. Am keen to complete that part of the project and run the hardwood through it rather than the defenseless piece of pine.

No idea on the robustness of the char finish on the pine, have not had a poke or dig at it, kind of didn't cross my mind to be honest, I kind of expected it to be a bit soft and to show bumps and scootches etc, but as suggested, it may very well be much more robust starting with some hardwood.

Long term I'd like to think we could do some cladding for whatever the next house ends up being, be it existing or perhaps a new cabin on a hill, prolly won't be able to help myself, everything will prolly end up covered in Yakisugi :roll: , and there is still the thought of being able to generate some additional pocket money, albeit on a small scale.


Once I get to run it again with the pyrometer working I'll post some more pics of the hardwood and have a quantitative poke at it for robustness for everyone.

Life seems to keep getting in the way of where we'd like to be, trying to sell a house for the last several years in a dead market, other half in and out of hospital for the last 18mths, block of land for the "almost house" up for sale trying to get to a clean and fresh starting point, but we keep crossing our fingers that things will start looking up soonish. :)

Cheers,

Mick.

[Sir Stinkalot]

What a handy little forum this is. I have been keen on Shou Sugi Ban for a while now and just needed a project to give it a go on. I have a small garden seat / screen that I want to use Jarrah battens on and thought this would be a good candidate for Shou Sugi Ban.

Anyway there are always other projects that take priority, but today I grabbed an off cut of Red Gum and hit it with the blow torch to see what happens. It took a while to get the charring to happen but once it warmed up it was a little quicker. I'm very happy with the finish and want the "gatored look", but was planning on asking the forum a few questions tonight about the char rub and the use of Jarrah.

It seems like the leg work has already been done before by TC. I was keen not to have to apply any oil but did want to avoid the char rub. As its just a screen, long term water tightness and durability is not a concern as it would be for a cladding. TC seems to have done a great service and I am heartened by the comment: "But I've discovered that oiled or not, the char rub/run off stops after a few days in the rain or a couple of soaks with a hose so I'm less concerned about that now." I have left my sample out where the screen goes to see what happens until I am ready to kick off the project again.

TC - Reading you posts you seemed to get a little disappointed that there seemed to be little interest at the start. Sometimes with specialty topics they are a long burn (pardon the pun). Your research and willingness to share has provided valuable research for another user a few years later and that is the benefit of this forum. I even know which is the best torch to purchase!

Cheers

Stinky

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[Sir Stinkalot]

It was interesting that this afternoon on the ride home from work I spotted some charred timber in the driveway of a property that is under renovation a block away from home. It seemed to be a commercial product, a softwood by the looks of it. The have clad the western side of an extension. It’s visible from the street so it would be interesting to see how it holds up. I might have a chat to the builder if they are around tomorrow.

[TychoCaine]

Hello All,

Just a quick update for posterity... all of my original samples are still out in the weather and both the jarrah and pine still look fantastic, have remained jet black without any fading or silvering and have zero char rub off.
Water no longer beads on any of them but I'd guess it's been more than 2 years since the tung oil (on the samples that have it) so that's not that surprising.

Unfortunately the recycled jarrah has proven too expensive to have machined into a shiplap profile and "new" jarrah is far too expensive for my budget so I'm currently considering some very nice (and affordable) larch I found via a local supplier. It is imported from overseas which slightly bothers me but the pricing is good and it's a species that's regularly used for SSB overseas so it's my current pick.

I'll update again once have made a final choice and then regularly during construction (which is due to start early 2019).

Stinky - I'm glad the thread has been useful for you... knowledge should be shared and that was always my goal. Congratulations on the seat, it looks great!

TC