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lithro
10th December 2016, 01:44 PM
So I have managed to over tighten the face plate while doing friction polish. I have broken a the push bar and a couple of screw drivers trying to get it off. I am currently soaking a bit of wd40 into the thread to try to loosen it. Any advice as to how to salvage this. I have a bowl half turned mounted and don't have a screw driver or torque wrench to remove the screws while it is on the lathe. Please help. The Christmas factory is slowing down.
Thanks
Lithro

Gabriel
10th December 2016, 02:28 PM
Would putting it in the fridge help as it would ld make the metal contract? (Just a thought, but I'm not that smart)


Scratch that, it still on the lathe *slaps forehead* .
Told you I wasn't smart

Gary H
10th December 2016, 02:41 PM
Damn!, he said. Does your lathe have a headstock locking pin (or indexing pin) to stop the spindle moving?
Also, check where the face plate screws onto the spindle, as many have two flats on the face plate for a
large shifting spanner or even a pair of multi-grips . Failing all that, hold the spindle the best way you can
and grab the end of the face plate with multigrips. And make sure you are turning in the right direction !
Or if you are in the southern area of Sydney, contact me.

Gary H

AND, when you finally get it off, make a washer (plastic, thin ply, fabric etc) to put on the spindle before you put the face plate on.
Then you won't have this problem again.

DaveTTC
10th December 2016, 02:46 PM
Love it Gabriel,
Now I can say what I was thinking

This is lathe abuse but .... if you have a spindle lock you could try jambing it on as the lathe is coing to a stop (says the man with a dozen lathes to restore)



Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

DaveTTC
10th December 2016, 03:20 PM
If you have a spindle lock you could try uscrewing the bowl and screwing a longer piece of timber on the face plate. Then with the spindle locked give the timber a blow with a hammer

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Skew ChiDAMN!!
10th December 2016, 04:59 PM
If you have a spindle lock you could try uscrewing the bowl and screwing a longer piece of timber on the face plate. Then with the spindle locked give the timber a blow with a hammer

I'm pretty sure he said the prob was compounded; he couldn't unscrew it while on the lathe. (Too big a headstock to allow access with a screwdriver perhaps?)

Lithro, how attached are you to that particular half-turned blank?

One option is to use a long spade/drill bit to drill a hole right through the side of the blank and slide a rod through to use as a lever. A spindle lock would be the best solution to lock the headstock side of things, but if not there should be provision for a plate spanner (which I always seem to bend beyond further use the first time they're needed) or (cringe, wince) room for a pair of vice-grips between the headstock & faceplate.

Don't forget that you must turn the faceplate in the right direction! I know that you already know this, but on a hot, day when all seems to be going wrong and are getting worse the harder you try, it's surprisingly easy to make a silly mistake like this. DAMHIKT. :B

DaveTTC
10th December 2016, 05:12 PM
Ooops. I did remember reading that

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

router
10th December 2016, 07:00 PM
When you solve your problem i found that by putting a fibre washer on the spindle shaft you can avoid this issue.

Good luck


Router

artful bodger
10th December 2016, 07:58 PM
Hi Lithro. This is a problem that just should not even be on the radar. Does your driving spindle have a nut behind the thread?

artful bodger
10th December 2016, 08:43 PM
OK just done some low tech detective work. It seems you might have the carbatec mini economy lathe? I notice these have a couple of holes behind the driving thread for holding the shaft whilst trying to undo stubborn faceplates. It is a really pooh-house design, something that even Vicmarc use on their chucks but a bad design none the less. Something you can get a spanner on is way preferable in my opinion.
Don't fear, I reckon you will get it off....you have to.
Maybe for future similar problems you could grind 2 parrallel flats where those holes are so you can get a decent purchase on the spindle with a big shifting spanner etc..
Not sure what I am ranting about?
Just say so and I am happy to post a more detailed description with a few pictures.
Cheers

Sawdust Maker
10th December 2016, 08:52 PM
can you lock the spindle? screwdriver in the belt maybe?

how is the faceplate designed to the undone, spanner, rod, whatever?

a photo may help

chuck1
10th December 2016, 09:56 PM
I have gotten mine undone by using a ratchet strap on bowl and using the belt to on the drive pulley to help lock spindle

Paul39
11th December 2016, 09:26 AM
My solution is to lock the spindle with the provided hole and pin. If that is not available and the lathe is belt driven, put the belt on the biggest spindle pulley, with some clothes line or equivalent tie the belt together and wind line around the hand wheel end a bunch of times to hold the spindle.

Apply lot of penetrating oil between the spindle nose and the face plate. Heat up the hub of the face plate with a hair dryer, heat gun, or propane torch. Grab the bowl, putting a strain on it towards unwinding, give the hub of the face plate a sharp rap with a small hammer at right angle to the spindle. This will usually pop it loose. If it doesn't come with one or two raps, more juice and more heat, and try again.

The above also works to get Morse Taper fittings out of head or tail stock.

You want a sharp shock rather than a heavy hammer blow.

I am not a fan of the plastic rings between chuck or faceplate and the spindle register. If they are too thick and squishy the chuck or face plate might be a little cattywampus and not run true.

I am a believer of removing the chuck or face plate a couple times a year, liberally oiling threads and register, run the chuck or faceplate on snug and off 5 - 10 times then wiping any rust or crud off the threads and register, lightly oiling and put back on.

When I bought my 20 some year old Woodfast some years ago, the hand wheel, faceplate, drive center, and tail center were all rusted firmly in place. It took a week end of oiling, heating, tapping, and occasional bitter cursing, but it all came apart without hurting anything.

My shed is in an unheated dirt floored basement. I keep everything oiled up and take every thing apart and oil once or twice a year. I rarely get anything stuck.

Wonderful Woodfast below, short bed 20 inch swing.

BobL
11th December 2016, 10:28 AM
Following on from the previous post.

We had a chuck stuck on a metal work lathe at the mens shed.

As men sheds go there was very soon a group of about 6 blokes standing around telling everyone else how to do it but no manner of lever + weight (including my 120kg) would shift it. Someone even suggested it must be integral to the spindle.

In walks 85 year old Ron, our resident guru with 70 (YES 70~) years of metal turning experience. He used a short lever and a medium sized hammer and gave the end of the lever a series of rapid taps and he had it loose in about 30 seconds.

This is the difference between "force", and "impact", the latter being force per unit time, which is the principle behind an impact driver.

Ron also does not recommend the leather/plastic ring behind between the chuck and the spindle for the same reason as Paul.

Cliff Rogers
11th December 2016, 10:36 AM
Yeah, be careful using the spindle lock to hold the shaft while you are undoing a jammed chuck/faceplate.

If you lathe has a hand wheel, use that to hold the shaft while you attach the jammed item.

I use a rubber mallet to jar jammed thing loose.

lithro
11th December 2016, 12:18 PM
Thanks guys, I really appreciate the advice.
So far what i have tried this morning is:

Getting canned air, and cooling it till i was condensing ice from the drop in temperature. This didnt work in contracting the metal butstill was fun to do.

Next i have used a small propane torch to try and heat it also didnt work.

So i have lost all confidence in my brain. Its a M900 lathe that i got second hand. It is missing the wheel on the end of the spindle and has no spindle lock that i am aware of.

So my next step will be to get a 24mm spanner to wedge against the the bed. And then going to drill a 16 mm hole through the faceplates previous holes and get a nice bit of steel from the green shed to tap as a lever.

Thanks guys i will let you know the progress.

Not my proudest of days....

router
11th December 2016, 12:30 PM
It may be helpful if you could advise the brand and model of the lathe as most likely a Formanite has had this problem before, a photo of the lathe would also help.

Regards


Router

Kuffy
11th December 2016, 12:54 PM
I get my chuck on my lathe good and stuck from time to time. It's because when I wind it onto the threads, I get it started and then give a good hard spin and it spins it way until it bottoms out on the spindle and locks itself tight. I can get shifting spanners on my spindle so it's no great drama. If I didn't have the shifting spanners, I would clamp the spindle (using a clamp on the spindle and using the lathe bed from preventing the clamp from rotating), and then stick a screwdriver or something in one of the face plate mounting holes and wack that screwdriver with a 2 pound sledgy. I wouldn't be very gentle with it since it is steel and not delicate timber.

lithro
11th December 2016, 09:27 PM
I will take a few photos of the solution tomorrow after work.

But i went to bunnings got a shifter with very narrow jaws (the width of them is about 6 mm vs most larger pair having 8-10+ mm) this fit around the the grooves in the spindle.

Wedged that against with the shifter against the bed. I also got a thing called a riggers wrench that has a tapper to the end, finishing in a ~4mm. I drill out the hole in the face plate to 10mm so i could get leverage.

Tap tap tap tap TAP and it was off.

Dropped the riggers wrench onto the top of my boot, honestly that tool has fantastic aerodynamics. Just straight down with grace and accuracy.

Btw the lathe is a M900 Carbatec homebrand.

Much thanks to everyone that took the time to reply.

Finally im about to do some reading on making the washer. I guess teflon tape is not enough?

Again Thank you all

router
11th December 2016, 09:39 PM
It is good that you have released the faceplate. All i have on my lathe is a fibre washer. The same as the ones that are used by plumbers on taps. Get one that fits on the shaft and job done.

Good one.

Router

powderpost
11th December 2016, 10:03 PM
I get my chuck on my lathe good and stuck from time to time. It's because when I wind it onto the threads, I get it started and then give a good hard spin and it spins it way until it bottoms out on the spindle and locks itself tight.

That is possibily the absolute worse thing you could do. I have been turning for about 50 years and learned very early on that a face plate, or chuck, should never be fitted with more than gentle hand pressure. I have never had the need to use any sort of washer between the face plate and the shoulder of the head stock spindle. Actually, lately, I have been usning home made wooden face plates. They are sacrificial as well as very cheap and never jam up. It is also a hard learned habit to remove driving spurs, tail stock centres and face plates. Tail stock centres have a nasty habit of drawing blood fron the elbow of the right arm.

Jim

Cliff Rogers
11th December 2016, 10:09 PM
I don't like washers either, I reckon they can make the faceplate/chuck run untrue if they don't sit against the machined shoulder on the spindle as intended.
That is just my opinion.
I saw a bloke who used a thick leather washer complain that his new chuck was out wack & didn't run true.
I reckon it was the thick leather washer causing the problem.

Kuffy
11th December 2016, 10:14 PM
That is possibily the absolute worse thing you could do.


I couldn't agree more. Everytime I do it I tell myself "thats gonna be a pain to get off later". But I find it so entertaining to see the chuck/faceplate spin really fast onto the threads and then just stop instantly. I guess it is one of those small things/small minds type of thing.

Mobyturns
11th December 2016, 10:34 PM
I don't like washers either, I reckon they can make the faceplate/chuck run untrue if they don't sit against the machined shoulder on the spindle as intended.
That is just my opinion.
I saw a bloke who used a thick leather washer complain that his new chuck was out wack & didn't run true.
I reckon it was the thick leather washer causing the problem.

Funny how that wobbly chuck will often run true on another lathe or even the same lathe without the washer. :rolleyes: I've seen this before myself.

I agree with Powderpost, a bit like the Goldilocks fable, just hand tight, not loose & not "nipped up."

mick59wests
24th February 2017, 07:32 PM
mine was a little worse than this one..........
- I bought an el-cheapo thin shifting spanner from Bunnos
- hitting with a hammer did not budge it so I tried the back of my axe and broke the spanner
- I then went to a metal work place and got them to make me a spanner to fit. After having to go back a couple of times to get it more exact I finally got the faceplate off with a big wack from the back of the axe.

I think I will try to avoid this situation next time, although I at least have a custom spanner!
cheers
Mick