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Phily
15th December 2016, 02:02 PM
I've been turning on and off for several decades (far more seriously the last 5yrs) without any major incidents. I'm a fairly cautious turner though quite a few times have fallen into the "I'm only going to be quick" trap and have started turning without protective gear - only to find myself still turning an hour later!

A very enjoyable morning, music in the background, finished off a piece from yesterday which I was very happy with and was well into a second piece - a lovely old lump of redgum with plenty of character. Before getting into the finishing stage, I took a break, took my mask off and grabbed some fresh air. On returning to the lathe and in anticipation of sanding, I decided to put on my full face respirator. I turned up the speed for the finishing cuts, bent over and started to kiss the timber with my freshly sharpened chisel. BAM BAM 2 large pieces straight into my face. No catch, no warning just an explosion.

Had I still been wearing only my safety glasses there is no doubt I would be in hospital right now getting my face stitched up.

I checked the pieces afterward. Absolutely nothing in the timber to indicate that there were any faults. It was only providence that saved me from a very nasty accident.

From now on, its a full face mask for me when doing any turning.

bueller
15th December 2016, 02:19 PM
These sorts of stories are the reason I'm not buying turning tools until I also have all the protective gear and proper dust extraction set up. Safety first, thanks for the reminder!

NeilS
15th December 2016, 03:51 PM
I've been turning on and off for several decades (far more seriously the last 5yrs) without any major incidents. I'm a fairly cautious turner though quite a few times have fallen into the "I'm only going to be quick" trap and have started turning without protective gear - only to find myself still turning an hour later!

A very enjoyable morning, music in the background, finished off a piece from yesterday which I was very happy with and was well into a second piece - a lovely old lump of redgum with plenty of character. Before getting into the finishing stage, I took a break, took my mask off and grabbed some fresh air. On returning to the lathe and in anticipation of sanding, I decided to put on my full face respirator. I turned up the speed for the finishing cuts, bent over and started to kiss the timber with my freshly sharpened chisel. BAM BAM 2 large pieces straight into my face. No catch, no warning just an explosion.

Had I still been wearing only my safety glasses there is no doubt I would be in hospital right now getting my face stitched up.

I checked the pieces afterward. Absolutely nothing in the timber to indicate that there were any faults. It was only providence that saved me from a very nasty accident.

From now on, its a full face mask for me when doing any turning.
Thanks for sharing Philly.

I always wear a full face shield-respirator. There is no guarantee that it will save me come the big one, however, it will reduce the number of pieces they have to collect.

Life itself is a risky business, but why take chances where you are able to minimise the risk.

Phily
15th December 2016, 04:22 PM
It was the shock of it. It was a really solid looking piece of wood that gave absolutely no indication of a problem. I've had other pieces give way and fly off in the opposite direction, but never directly into my face. Maybe it won't ever happen again, but I like my skin on the bone, not hanging away from it - so no more risks!!

Willy Nelson
15th December 2016, 11:40 PM
There are a couple of issues here for me.
Firstly, I am really wary of being in the line of fire. I always stand well back upon starting, unless absolutely imperative, I NEVER stand in the line of fire. I have quite a vivid imagination, plus a good memory. I imagine, What if this big Jarrah Burl explodes, where will it hit. And I also have a memory of a chunk of Jarrah hitting me between the eyes, whilst wearing a full face shield and respirator. It drew blood and I saw stars.

So, prior to relying upon PPE, consider where you are working and standing, and what trajectory the missiles will take.

Lastly, quite often, I can hear an issue well before it becomes one, the sound of the turning changes when a crack becomes evident. I will always stabilise a piece of wood or burl before going on again
Cheers
Willy

Mobyturns
16th December 2016, 08:15 AM
From now on, its a full face mask for me when doing any turning.

Very good news that all that was harmed in this event were your undies.

A face shield is the first thing that you put on and the last thing that you check that you have on before starting the lathe.


There are a couple of issues here for me.
Firstly, I am really wary of being in the line of fire. I always stand well back upon starting, unless absolutely imperative, I NEVER stand in the line of fire. I have quite a vivid imagination, plus a good memory. I imagine, What if this big Jarrah Burl explodes, where will it hit. And I also have a memory of a chunk of Jarrah hitting me between the eyes, whilst wearing a full face shield and respirator. It drew blood and I saw stars.

So, prior to relying upon PPE, consider where you are working and standing, and what trajectory the missiles will take.

Lastly, quite often, I can hear an issue well before it becomes one, the sound of the turning changes when a crack becomes evident. I will always stabilise a piece of wood or burl before going on again
Cheers
Willy

Very good advice.

One other thing that I will add, is that most turners forget about the static and dynamic forces involved with turning.

Quite often a piece will stay together while the lathe is still running but once stopped it will not handle the change in forces when the lathe is started again. This commonly occurs with thin walled bowls, bowl blanks with "character", long very thin spindle items etc. While the lathe is spinning everything is in a state of equilibrium, but once stopped the torque generated in the piece to get the whole piece back up to speed may be more that the material that is left is capable of withstanding. "Soft starting" - reducing the speed on start up then gradually increasing the speed will minimise the risk.

This is a quite common event (in hazard management terms), one with high risk and potentially catastrophic outcomes - a near completed bowl exploding upon start up. For those who have not heard of Lynne Yammaguchi's injury in near identical circumstances take the time to find and read her blog about her facial injuries and loss of sight in one eye.

Unfortunately these sorts of events have been known to kill wood turners or leave them with quite traumatic injuries.

BobL
16th December 2016, 09:55 AM
While standing out of the line of fire is far better than not, it is not a guarantee that you won't get hit. If the piece coming of hits an angled tool post, turning tool or the lathe bed it can bounce off in a wider range of directions. In theory the safest place "out of the line of fire" is behind the head stock but you won't get much turning done there.

The other way you can get hit is when something accidentally falls or lands on a spinning chuck or object being turned.
One region from where the "something" can come from is shelving behind the lathe.

Earlier this year I was using my MW lathe with the jaws set well out (not spinning) when I reached up to grab some lubricant on a shelf behind the lathe and a near full can of WD40 fell onto the chuck jaws puncturing the can and then it fell onto the lathe bed and the can started to spin spewing out its contents all over me in a vertical orientation. Luckily I had a full face shield on but my clothe got saturated with the stuff.

Willy Nelson
16th December 2016, 02:09 PM
While standing out of the line of fire is far better than not, it is not a guarantee that you won't get hit. If the piece coming of hits an angled tool post, turning tool or the lathe bed it can bounce off in a wider range of directions. In theory the safest place "out of the line of fire" is behind the head stock but you won't get much turning done there.

The other way you can get hit is when something accidentally falls or lands on a spinning chuck or object being turned.
One region from where the "something" can come from is shelving behind the lathe.

Earlier this year I was using my MW lathe with the jaws set well out (not spinning) when I reached up to grab some lubricant on a shelf behind the lathe and a near full can of WD40 fell onto the chuck jaws puncturing the can and then it fell onto the lathe bed and the can started to spin spewing out its contents all over me in a vertical orientation. Luckily I had a full face shield on but my clothe got saturated with the stuff.

Sorry mate, but I reckon a video of that event would look hilarious
Willy

NeilS
16th December 2016, 03:16 PM
Earlier this year I was using my MW lathe with the jaws set well out (not spinning) when I reached up to grab some lubricant on a shelf behind the lathe and a near full can of WD40 fell onto the chuck jaws puncturing the can and then it fell onto the lathe bed and the can started to spin spewing out its contents all over me in a vertical orientation. Luckily I had a full face shield on but my clothe got saturated with the stuff.

...:rotfl:

BobL
16th December 2016, 04:39 PM
Sorry mate, but I reckon a video of that event would look hilarious
Willy

Well, I can tell you there will be no reruns.

woodPixel
16th December 2016, 06:18 PM
Good reminder.

Ive become slack recently.

AlexS
16th December 2016, 06:26 PM
Firstly, I am really wary of being in the line of fire. I always stand well back upon starting, unless absolutely imperative, I NEVER stand in the line of fire.

Very sound advice. I don't do much turning, but I was taught that you never stand in line with any rotating machine when starting up. I've seen a single tooth from a table saw go through a fibro wall, and also pictures of what happened to a full face shield when a grinding wheel disintegrated. I also had a teacher who was interrupted when changing the blades on her jointer, and forgot to tighten them before switching it on. Had she not been standing to the side she would probably have been seriously injured. As it was, one blade scared the whatever out of the birds sitting on the roof of her workshop.

hughie
16th December 2016, 09:42 PM
I have found that complacency ' it wont happened to me' usually borne out of several years of experience, one of the key attitudes towards accidents

For many years I worked in mining and mining construction sites in many parts of the world. One of the alarming statistics was about complacency. If I was going to have a accident in this type of work it would happen most likely at the 10 year mark. This point in time was universal wherever I worked, the tenth year was the most dangerous and given the nature of the work and industry these accidents were never pretty.

Its the same with wood turning so much so we could say 'complacency kills' here as in mining etc. Its a difficult attitude to get on top of as it requires a change of habit and thinking. Plus constant working at it till it becomes automatic.

Glad it was nothing serious Phil and its a good reminder to all of us.

Phily
18th December 2016, 12:47 PM
I was actually spindle turning. When the pice gave way it caused the piece to break into 3 pieces, 2 of which came at me - directly at each eye! You are 100% Hughie, I had become complacent, thinking that a pair of safety glasses would suffice most times. On this occasion, they might have saved my eyesight but without doubt my eyebrows wouldn't have faired so well!!

Mobyturns
19th December 2016, 08:44 AM
I was actually spindle turning. When the pice gave way it caused the piece to break into 3 pieces, 2 of which came at me - directly at each eye! You are 100% Hughie, I had become complacent, thinking that a pair of safety glasses would suffice most times. On this occasion, they might have saved my eyesight but without doubt my eyebrows wouldn't have faired so well!!

Spindle turning can get you too. Was the grain in the blank a bit suspect - cross grain perhaps?

Safety at the lathe and in the work shop is an interlinked process, each little oversight may not seem all that worrying or risky, but they have a rather nasty habit of all coming together at the wrong time.

We all tend to get very familiar with processes and fall into the complacency trap of "I can get away with that" or "she'll be right." Then we get a reality check.

Phily
19th December 2016, 10:53 AM
100%!
it was a piece of redgum with some very nice fiddleback. I've looked at the bits a few times to see if I missed anything. But nothing stands out.

Mobyturns
19th December 2016, 11:57 AM
100%!
it was a piece of redgum with some very nice fiddleback. I've looked at the bits a few times to see if I missed anything. But nothing stands out.

As they say "$hit happens."

With some of my failures it has taken a while to fully understand what really happened.

Like the times I kept blowing up the spindle on my laminated spinning tops. I couldn't for the life of me understand why a number of them failed when nearing completion of the turning. The shafts would simply shatter. Nothing different in the turning process to other tops. Then I went back through the entire process and finally identified that in one batch of blanks I was aiming to get the "perfect" glue joint. The glue was also a "new" glue, a "fast grab" PVA that many segmenters prefer. The combination of a nice tight fit of the components and the fast grab glue meant that some needed a little coercion to go together correctly. In the process I was torqueing the spindle shaft to the point that the grain was starting to loose its integrity. This of course didn't show up until the final cuts to finish the spindle.

chuck1
21st December 2016, 08:30 AM
Lucky you made it unscared, I always have full face shield for bowls, faceplate work. (free end turning)
I do get lax with spindle turning.
I have had split lips and chipped tooth and knocked to the floor.
Which isn't to bad for the amount of time at the lathe.
Be safe people and get the PPE and used it.

Prle77
21st December 2016, 11:33 AM
I had a similar scenario few months ago.. unfortunately I wasn't so lucky... Same ... red gum vase... Finished turning.. Finished sanding ...Finished applying wax... Lifted the face shield to turn off the machine ... Approached the switch with visor up.... BANG!!!! Vase exploded into 3 pieces. One end flew across the shed (about 10 mtrs) other end bounced off my fist and the lucky last aimed and hit me right on the nose.. End result... Broken nose with big laceration... Fully bruised fist like I've had a punch on with the wall.. blood everywhere.. etc... Not a pleasant sight...
About 8 stitches and nose correction later i was off shed duty for about a month or so...
So... On my first visitation to the shed after the accident I've done thorough check of what has happened..
1) internal crack inside timber which was not visible..
2) me lifting lid before stopping machine (although further analysis of that action led me to conclusion that even if I had a lid on the force of the impact would still break my nose so only saving would be laceration)

Fix... Bought better (harder) shield ... Looking at modifying lathe to move switch away from the stock end so I can operate it away from the danger (like vicmarc)
Change of attitude... Never.. EVER even think about approaching lathe while spinning without full face shield on regardless...
Also brought my old full face motorcycle helmet for stuff i deem too dangerous even for a face shield

BobL
21st December 2016, 01:14 PM
Also brought my old full face motorcycle helmet for stuff i deem too dangerous even for a face shield

The problem with the MC helmet is they need air flow to prevent them fogging up in cold weather and stopping them from getting too hot even in just warm let alone hot weather.
A 3D face shield like an Armadillo (https://www.protectoralsafe.com.au/part/01327775/faceshield-complete-armadillo-clear) won't quite be as good as a MC helmet but will provide significantly improved protection over a 2D shield.

Prle77
21st December 2016, 01:46 PM
Yep and that is exactly what I've got.. the Armadillo one.. The MC helmet is there for hmm special risky stuff... Hasn't been tested on a lathe but was definitely tested on a motorcycle crash and was very successful in that operation thus my incline for use in woodwork. I do agree regarding the airflow but the visor I have has anti fog layer which should help a bit.. its the heat I would be more worried of... Since I don't see myself moving that fast around the workshop to generate enough airflow :)

I see there is request for picture.. I do have some head shots but not sure whether it would be safe to put them on as they would belong to the gore category... and may make some hmmm not to feel well while viewing them... i should have the photo of the culprit who caused the damage ...if found I will post it..

BobL
21st December 2016, 02:05 PM
Yep and that is exactly what I've got.. the Armadillo one.. The MC helmet is there for hmm special risky stuff... .

I'm intrigued as to what they might be. :?

If you post the injuries in the safety Forum you can tag it with a Gore warning in the title.

Mobyturns
22nd December 2016, 12:06 AM
I'm a little concerned that you would consider a MC helmet sufficient for "special risky stuff." The idea is to change "special risky stuff" into safe to turn stuff.

Prle77
22nd December 2016, 03:56 PM
Sorry to re-phrase it... the special risky stuff category does not mean literary I'm going to play dumb and do something stupid while relying on my providence or safety gear to keep me out of trouble..
Special risky stuff is determined by either.. a process where it usually goes..
hmm.. this thing might explode - can I make it safe yes / no ... If yes .. make it safe and use additional safety precautions such as in this case MC helmet... just to be on extra safety side.. if no.. then either dont do it / find alternative safer method of working with it...

In this occasion.. due to previous experience with red gum.. I will wear MC helmet every time I decide to turn it.. regardless... I am not thinking of doing risky stuff.. it is just... potential of damage.. ie.. turning large piece of wood.. regardless what it is.. every wood has a potential of falling to pieces either because of operator error or hidden cracks ... So my special risky stuff is.. if i get hit my the piece of such dimensions I do not believe that standard face shield would provide sufficient protection.. Plus I already have MC helmet... so it is not additional purchase or anything .. so why not utilize it????
I dont envisage using it often.. but hey.. its there.. so why not.. :)

hope this clarifies my "special risky stuff category" classification.. :)

Mr Brush
22nd December 2016, 04:22 PM
You can't be too careful....

https://www.howitworksdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Bombsuit.jpg

artful bodger
22nd December 2016, 06:17 PM
Got to admit I have used a motorcycle helmet before on some bigger turnings. I went for an open faced variety as well as safety glasses so fogging up was not an issue. Not overly concerned about a broken nose or jaw as they will heal in time. It was a broken brain that concerned me.

Kuffy
22nd December 2016, 08:09 PM
You can't be too careful....



That is actually a picture of being too careful. Those long sleeves extend well past the wrist and hands! Now you know, safety is unsafe :D

Gary H
23rd December 2016, 12:09 PM
As my feet are prettier than my face, I am more concerned with safety footwear!:doh:
And a very Merry Christmas and a SAFE and healthy New Year to all our contributors.

Gary H

ps: Phil - would you like some of your camphor laurel back? It's softer !!! :2tsup:

Phily
26th December 2016, 01:37 PM
ps: Phil - would you like some of your camphor laurel back? It's softer !!! :2tsup:

Thanks Garry, I still have plenty �� seems that every timber has its hidden dangers, from toxic fumes (eg CL) through carcenagenic dusts to unpredictable shattering. I recently invested in a 3M full face respirator with hood. Makes me look like I've just stepped out of an alien spacecraft but so far is working a treat!

NeilS
27th December 2016, 10:56 PM
I recently invested in a 3M full face respirator with hood. Makes me look like I've just stepped out of an alien spacecraft but so far is working a treat!

Me too. Expensive, but as you say, it works well.

Stay sharp!

Neil