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View Full Version : Leda 1018 or Jet 1220?



Gassy
29th December 2016, 11:35 AM
I've been using a home made hand me down lathe to get the feel of things but it's limitations are not going to let me do what I need, ie. accurate pipe making of 10-30mm OD with a 4mm bore.

I need to be able to turn up to 410mm between centers, and only really need a small swing over bed so anything will work. This means I only need a smallish lathe but the Carbatec WL-B440H (replaces 1018), and Jet Mini (1014) are too short to be suitable. The Woodcraft Midi WM305 at 420mm is marginal. This seems to leave the Leda 1018 or the Jet Midi 1220 as the affordable choices. I think I may want a hollow tail stock but I don't know for sure yet. Being able to fit a steady rest is important.

The Jet is considerably more expensive, and I wonder if that's justified in the quality or reliability?

At this stage I am more looking for something just to get my skills up and then look at a variable speed model down the track, but there's not point in buying junk. Really my question is will the Leda 1018 do me for the learning phase, it's remarkably cheap* which somewhat concerns me, so is there some reason to stretch for the Jet? Especially as I can get a 4 jaw chuck and the Leda for less than the base cost of the Jet.

And if anyone in Adelaide that has some experience can spare some time for a chat please PM me.

* then again they can make 5000/month (http://burtgroup.en.made-in-china.com/product/ToaJHNgAmUYp/China-10X18-Mini-Wood-Lathe-370W-MC1018-.html) :wink:

Colin62
29th December 2016, 06:57 PM
...and Jet Mini (1014) are too short to be suitable.

Can't you get an extension bed for it?

Jim Carroll
29th December 2016, 07:33 PM
The best option is the Woodfast M305 and add a bed extension this will give you a metre between centres. Also able to turn a 300mm bowl.

It is handy to have that bit more lenght to move the tailstock out of the way.

Also has the M30 thread and 2mt tapers which gives you more options for accessories.

2 options , 6 speed $550.00 or the variable speed @ $1250.00

Gassy
29th December 2016, 08:00 PM
Thanks for the replys. I did look at the bed extensions to all of them, but it drives the price up a fair bit, the Woodfast comes in at ~$710 with the extension, the Leda is $363. What would make the Woodfast worth twice the price? I will not ever be doing bowls, I am sure of that, and 420mm is the longest spindle I will turn, for certain.

smiife
29th December 2016, 09:04 PM
Thanks for the replys. I did look at the ed extensions to all of them, but it drives the price up a fair bit, the Woodfast comes in at ~$710 with the extension, the Leda is $363. What would make the Woodfast worth twice the price? I will not ever be doing bowls, I am sure of that, and 420mm is the longest spindle I will turn, for certain.

Hi gassy,

Never say never ,!,,!,!,, ........I am sure you would venture In to other
things ,, ie ... bowls , boxes etc..
If I lived In adeilade , woodfast would be the choice.....
If any product is half the price of a good well proven , well built
Local advice and help , parts and service , does that not tell you something ?
I have a woodfast and have never had a problem with it , great lathe :2tsup:
Go the extra mile , you will not regret it !

fubar
29th December 2016, 10:47 PM
can't comment on the 1220 only used it once at a demo and it was an older model but I have the 1642(and a few more different tools by jet) and build quality on mine is terrific. I have had zero problems since purchasing and am very happy with my jet.

Mobyturns
30th December 2016, 07:05 AM
Price alone is not a good indicator of "value" in a wood lathe. Many things determine the "value" - alignment of the tailstock, free play between the tailstock and bed, tool rest & banjo design, minimum "practical" speed of lathe, motor torque at available horsepower / lathe speed, motor duty cycle etc.

Drilling a 4mm "accurate" hole 410mm long is not an easy feat on a mini or midi lathe for "accurate pipe making" or any wood lathe for that matter. First off you will need to make allowances to bed length for "losses" for your preferred work holding method, and your preferred choice of tailstock, so a bed extension would appear to be a basic necessity for a mini or midi lathe.

Controlling the "accuracy" of a 4mm hole then creates other issues. Most long hole boring accessories available are either 5/16", 3/8" or 10mm. Will the tailstock end be free? If so you may / almost certainly will require a lathe steady. Then you will require a custom hollow centre set up specifically for 4mm long hole boring.

CWS Store - Long Hole Boring (http://www.cwsonline.com.au/shop/category/-long-hole-boring)
Other Vermec Accessories - VERMEC, YOUR WOOD WORKING & ENGINEERING SUPPLIER. (http://www.vermec.com/other-vermec-accessories.html)

issatree
30th December 2016, 09:44 AM
Hi Gassy,
Everybody is different, & so it will be Choosing a Lathe.
Most likely you are aware that there a many good 2nd. hand Lathes around, that is just to confuse the issue.
I have had a small Leda Lathe for many years. Never missed a beat, but a slight difference is that this Lathe is my Demo Lathe for Shows around, & when asked to do a Demo. It goes Flat Chat when in use, never had a problem.
I leave the 2 Belt windows open when Turning, as the belt pulls a fair amount of Air in & keeps the Bearings cool. You do not have to lift the Motor up & down to change the Belt as the Belt is equal on all cogs, just a matter of going to the small one 1st.
Make sure on any Lathe that the Belt is running in the correct groves or you will be buying a new Belt from Jim.
After a days work, loosen EVERY tight bit & use an old towel to cover the Lathe till next time.
Justmy2senceworth.

Gassy
30th December 2016, 11:37 AM
Price alone is not a good indicator of "value" in a wood lathe. Many things determine the "value"

Thanks guys, that is what I am trying to work out, or else I would have already bought the much cheaper Leda. If there is a noticeable build quality difference I understand why I should pay more, but I can't find anyone saying anything negative about the Leda. What are the things that are "better" on the Woodfast (or Jet)? Better bearings? Motor? Belt? Cam locks? Alignment?

If you said the Woodfast was made in Australia, that would convince me, but it's not, it's highly likely the same factory (http://burtgroup.en.made-in-china.com/product/TbnxcSGKsCpt/China-12X18-Woodworking-Lathe-600W-MC1218A-.html) that makes the Leda though probably to different specifications (and possibly the reason for the large price difference). Though Leda is Australia wide with a head office here in Adelaide so I'd hope for good support.

For boring the holes a purpose made D bit is used, but yes as I mentioned a steady rest is a good idea. It is typically hand fed but I thought a simple guide in the tail stock might be also worthwhile, hence why I'd like a hollow tail stock. For my purposes, my guess is the stability of the head stock is the biggest factor beyond the turners skill, ie. good bearings in head and motor, and good pulleys.

I appreciate all the replys.

Colin62
30th December 2016, 05:57 PM
I've been using a home made hand me down lathe to get the feel of things but it's limitations are not going to let me do what I need, ie. accurate pipe making of 10-30mm OD with a 4mm bore.

With the discussion about lathes, I missed this bit. I've some (limited) experience with boring down to 4 and 5mm, and it's not that easy, especially when the word "accurate" is included. The longest I've gone is around 300mm, and it requires a lot of patience, removing the bit frequently to clear the swarf, or else it will wander and it will start heating the wood up. I've tried a variety of bits, and the only ones that are close to accurate are gun drills, but I'm pretty sure that a D bit will be pretty similar. Even with a gun drill, you can get the bit being pushed off centre by a flaw in the timber, and it's easy to drift especially given that the diameter of the bore is only 1% of the length of the hole (at that length, even just holding the bit horizontal will probably see it drooping toward the end). The timber I was using was African Blackwood, which is pretty dense and solid. It was musical instrument grade timber, so no noticeable flaws.

I'm curious to know what your application is? Some sort of musical instrument?

Gassy
30th December 2016, 07:29 PM
Yes Colin, smallpipes eventually/hopefully, possibly other types of pipes, though at this stage no aspirations of making GHB. Inspired by Bill Hart and Julian Goodacre, amongst many other craftsmen. I will probably go the gun drill method eventually, but had planned to start with a D bit, unless I find a cheapish gun drill of the right size. The more I think about it the more I expect that the headstock stability will be the most important thing, but I don't know how to test that in a showroom :). Tail stock consistency of alignment will be important but I figure that can be adjusted/aligned with a laser jig.

Colin62
30th December 2016, 07:56 PM
Yes Colin, smallpipes eventually/hopefully

Snap :) Are you a piper?



I will probably go the gun drill method eventually, but had planned to start with a D bit, unless I find a cheapish gun drill of the right size.

I got lucky on eBay. Someone had a lot of NOS gundrills for sale including the size I wanted, and at a quarter of the going rate. It was just after I started looking and I only bought the one to see how well it worked, thinking I'd easily get other sizes later, but I have never seen them at anywhere near that price again.



The more I think about it the more I expect that the headstock stability will be the most important thing, but I don't know how to test that in a showroom :). Tail stock consistency of alignment will be important but I figure that can be adjusted/aligned with a laser jig.

I don't even use a tail stock - it will mean that you need an extra 100-125mm length on the gundrill, and a 500mm + 4mm gun drill is not easy to find at an affordable price. I use a set of pen jaws on a chuck, start the hole (about 5mm deep) with a brad point bit mounted in a chuck on the tailstock, and the remove the tailstock and hold the gundrill by hand. It gives you a good feel for what is happening at the tip, you can feel when it starts to bind and empty the swarf before it does any damage.

I'm assuming that you're planning to make your own chanter? The drones shouldn't need 410mm in one piece.

What timber are you using? Where are you sourcing it?

My smallpipe project has been on the backburner for a while now, but you're motivating me to get going again. The original plan was to knock up a set of drones using polycomp, buy a chanter and get the set up and running. Once I have got the teething troubles out the way, I'll attack the blackwood again.

Gassy
31st December 2016, 05:46 PM
Snap :) Are you a piper?

Yes, I am.

The chanter is what needs ~410mm, and yes I was planning to make my own, though that's clearly the tricky part, but at least it's a cylindrical bore unlike GHB. I can live with hand feeding a D bit in and out for now, and if I go into mass production I may splurge ;)

You can use a PC chanter if you just want to get started, though it's chalk and cheese comparing the well tuned Iona SSP chanter with the McCallum PC. I am yet to try to source timber, but Australia has many hardwoods, some harder than ABW, so I don't plan to bother with imported timber. You could use Delrin for the drones but why not use something more interesting? Doesn't really need to be all that hard, some makers are using applewood and olivewood.

TongueTied
1st January 2017, 10:19 PM
I have a JWS 1220. Don't recall what the bed length is and what they claim you can turn on it but I find you can't do much over 300mm due to the tail stock centre or drill chuck. To get a decent length, you need a bed extension. The lack of variable speed is a PITA. I really would not recommend anyone but a 1220 at the moment. There is a replacement model that is available in the U.S. but hasn't arrived on our shores yet. So if you are set on a Jet, wait otherwise look at other brands.

Posted from somewhere I don't want to be.

Gassy
2nd January 2017, 11:31 AM
I have a JWS 1220. Don't recall what the bed length is and what they claim you can turn on it but I find you can't do much over 300mm due to the tail stock centre or drill chuck.

Well it is a 12x20 after all and they claim

<tbody>
Distance Between Centers (In.)
20

</tbody>
so it's interesting how they must measure that if you can't do 300 since 25.4x20=508. I have no idea how they really measure it but surely "between centers" should mean point to point of the centers, not tail to tail?

TongueTied
2nd January 2017, 12:41 PM
Well it is a 12x20 after all and they claim

<tbody>
Distance Between Centers (In.)
20

</tbody>
so it's interesting how they must measure that if you can't do 300 since 25.4x20=508. I have no idea how they really measure it but surely "between centers" should mean point to point of the centers, not tail to tail?
As I said, you can't do any thing more than about 300mm. You always have some wastage at either end and your live center will also reduce the distance, so will a chuck. If you have to bore out the piece, your tail stock chuck plus your drill bit, will be almost 200mm on its own. So, they can say what they like on the box, you can't practically turn anything much more than 300mm.

Posted from somewhere I don't want to be.

Colin62
3rd January 2017, 08:08 AM
Yes, I am.

Me too. :)



You can use a PC chanter if you just want to get started, though it's chalk and cheese comparing the well tuned Iona SSP chanter with the McCallum PC.

My plan was to buy a proper small-pipe chanter to get going, and only try my hand at making my own chanter when I had something to compare it with, and



I am yet to try to source timber, but Australia has many hardwoods, some harder than ABW, so I don't plan to bother with imported timber. You could use Delrin for the drones but why not use something more interesting? Doesn't really need to be all that hard, some makers are using applewood and olivewood.

Its not only the hardness that's important, but also the stability, so when choosing a wood you need one that isn't much affected by changes in moisture. I'm keen to try using some Mopani too, but that can wait for a while.

Mobyturns
3rd January 2017, 08:13 AM
I have a JWS 1220. Don't recall what the bed length is and what they claim you can turn on it but I find you can't do much over 300mm due to the tail stock centre or drill chuck. To get a decent length, you need a bed extension. The lack of variable speed is a PITA. I really would not recommend anyone but a 1220 at the moment. There is a replacement model that is available in the U.S. but hasn't arrived on our shores yet. So if you are set on a Jet, wait otherwise look at other brands.

Posted from somewhere I don't want to be.

If Gassy is going to use a "D" or Gun drill he will not lose as much bed length because a hollow live centre takes up far less length than a chuck plus drill bit.