chrisinoz 3rd January 2017, 03:49 PM Hi. Fairly new to this. I have a pine 7mm thick printed panel that I want to center in a 480 x 320 tray with a hardwood rebate frame.
This will necessitate (obviously!) surrounding it with 4 panels of the same thickness. Probably two full length panels (top and bottom) and infills for the sides.
Should I edge glue the panels and then put that into the frame or should I glue the panels onto a pine panel of say 7mm thick and then frame? Or any other option?
Also I have been advised in the gluing forum (re a separate question) that one should use aquadhere exterior instead of interior because of it's greater strength. It was suggested to use epoxy instead of aquadhere but I am have not used an expoy before.
Thanks
Chris
DaveVman 3rd January 2017, 06:56 PM Is this to be a tray to serve food on or in anyway connected with food?
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chrisinoz 3rd January 2017, 08:19 PM Thanks for the quick response. More for wine/tea etc. Not like a cheeseboard.
DaveVman 4th January 2017, 10:23 AM Someone may have suggested covering it in epoxy to make it food safe. That is an epoxy coating not a glue. I get that from factories excess if I need a fair quantity.
I use epoxy to glue completely different materials together. Like wood, plastic, metal etc to each other. Epoxy glue is a lot more expensive than wood glue.
Epoxy glue is easy except that the problem is most epoxies in hardware stores set in 5mins or less. In practice this is too fast. By the time you are half way through lining things up and clamping them in place it is far too easy for the epoxy glue to set before you checked everything was in position.
This happened to me last week. By happy coincidence it worked out fine in that case. Even a potential improvement but obviously normally that could have been a big problem.
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chrisinoz 4th January 2017, 01:28 PM Thanks
Re coating I will be using matt poly as it does not need to be foodsafe.
As for the glue I am happy then to stay with the Aquadhere for wood to wood. Part of my forum post covered should one use exterior (they say it is stronger) or interior.
Also to all readers of this post I would also like opinion on "Should I edge glue the panels and then put that into the frame or should I glue the panels onto a pine panel of say 7mm thick and then frame? Or any other option?"
Kuffy 4th January 2017, 01:43 PM I am still trying to figure out what you are making. Is it something along the lines as this quick drawing I attached?
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ian 4th January 2017, 01:56 PM Hi. Fairly new to this. I have a pine 7mm thick printed panel that I want to center in a 480 x 320 tray with a hardwood rebate frame.
This will necessitate (obviously!) surrounding it with 4 panels of the same thickness. Probably two full length panels (top and bottom) and infills for the sides.
Should I edge glue the panels and then put that into the frame or should I glue the panels onto a pine panel of say 7mm thick and then frame? Or any other option?
Also I have been advised in the gluing forum (re a separate question) that one should use aquadhere exterior instead of interior because of it's greater strength. It was suggested to use epoxy instead of aquadhere but I am have not used an expoy before.Hi Chris
like Kuffy, I'm having difficulty working out what you want to do.
at only 7mm thick, keeping the panel flat over time could be a challenge. An option that comes to mind is mounting the panel as an insert in a thicker 480 x 320 panel -- which could be a piece of thick marine ply
Can you post a photo?
chrisinoz 4th January 2017, 05:38 PM Exactly Kuffy- - thanks for the diagram.Will help others visiting this post.
chrisinoz 4th January 2017, 05:48 PM Hi Ian
I have the panel but have not cut the other panels so a photo won't help much here. But Kuffy has nailed it as to what I want to achieve.
I lack the know how at present for doing the insert but would there be a problem with the pine expanding at a different rate as the ply?
(I have been told never to glue pine onto ply for the same expansion reason though I have succeeded in the past for a tray.)
I have done a tray with edge gluing three pieces width ways and that was about 10mm thick and worked fine. It is just I have here 5 pieces and thinner wood so I thought gluing them onto a pine panel 480x300 would ensure strength and support for the 5 panels. Also I guess I could also edge glue the 5 panels and then glue onto the panel below.
Hope that is clearer.
Kuffy 4th January 2017, 06:12 PM If your printed panel is 7mm thick and you are wanting to make a tray, I would recess that panel into a thicker 12mm panel. Then I would house that panel into a groove (not a rebate) in the sides and that will keep the panel flat.
You can laminate 5 thinner pieces to a thicker piece of solid pine. Using epoxy for this is the correct recommendation because water-based pva such as aquadhere will curl the panel like a potato chip (epoxy might do it also). I wouldn't bother to edge glue beforehand. Just place each piece down in the mud (epoxy) and make sure they butt up to each other nicely. As above, I would house this panel into a groove, not rebate.
chrisinoz 4th January 2017, 08:10 PM Thanks Kuffy.
When I got my rebate mixed up with my groove. Groove is what I meant. For further strength I also mitre spline the frame corners.
I think I will look further into the recessing idea - a learning curve I guess! Working with an epoxy will also be new - just a thought would Liquid Nails suffice instead of epoxy?
Kuffy 4th January 2017, 08:31 PM Nah, don't use liquid nails.
If you recess the printed panel into a thicker panel, you can use PVA with minimal issues. Until the panel is housed in the grooves and sealed with finish, there is a possibility that the panel will move around. Keeping the panel wrapped in plastic sitting on a flat surface with weight on top of it does wonders. just the plastic is usually good enough, weight is just extra insurance.
Arron 4th January 2017, 08:39 PM Thanks Kuffy.
When I got my rebate mixed up with my groove. Groove is what I meant.
Actually, 'dado' is what you meant.
I expect you already know this, but if you take either of Kuffy's suggestions make sure you keep the grain direction consistent across all pieces, to keep the expansion/contraction thing under control.
Just edge gluing up 5 pieces to make one panel will be a bit weak, especially as at least 4 of the joints will be end-grain to end-grain (end grain joints are intrinsically weak), so you are right in anticipating that it should be backed up with something.
Cheers
Arron
Kuffy 4th January 2017, 08:44 PM Groove! runs with the grain in the sides of a tray.
dado runs across the grain. like in bookcase sides.
bueller 4th January 2017, 09:15 PM I didn't realise there was a distinction between the two Kuffy, thanks for clarifying!
Arron 4th January 2017, 09:17 PM Yeah, I never knew either.
Thanks for correcting.
Kuffy 4th January 2017, 09:17 PM heh, it doesn't matter really. if you call a sheep a duck, it aint gonna quack. though there is probably a youtube vid of a sheep quacking....damn interwebs!!!
chrisinoz 7th January 2017, 10:55 AM If your printed panel is 7mm thick and you are wanting to make a tray, I would recess that panel into a thicker 12mm panel. Then I would house that panel into a groove (not a rebate) in the sides and that will keep the panel flat.
I have done a bit of searching on Google but not clear how one would go ahead with this. Using a router seems the way to go? I use one under a table but I have yet to use one as a standalone.
So the challenge is this.
I have a blank pine panel 480x320x12
I have a feature pine panel 230x170x7
I want the feature panel centered.
As to method to make this happen could someone add light to this? You tube video example(s)?
Thanks
Chris
Kuffy 7th January 2017, 12:16 PM there are half a dozen ways of doing it that immediately spring to my mind. Some are better than others, some have minimal setup times, and others have an epic amount of work to be done before you can begin to cut.
They way I might do it for one odd panel, would be to secure the 12mm panel to my bench with double side sticky tape. Then I would get the router and measure the distance from the center of the spindle to the outer edge of the baseplate minus 1/2 of the cutter diameter, record this measurement. Then I would set up sticks to act as fences with double sided sticky tape whatever the measurement was away from your finished cut line. then it is just a matter of setting a plunge depth on your router and hogging away the material. An important note is to remove material methodically from one side to the other. imagine mopping the floor of a rectangle room, if you go and mop the outer perimeter and work your way into the center of the room. when you are finished you will have to give yourself a solid uppercut because now you have to walk over the clean/wet floor to get out of the room. Except with a router, instead of walking on a wet floor, you won't have any timber remaining to support the router.
Another method is to freehand close to a line and clean up with a chisel. for smaller one off parts this is how I would normally do it. the only video I could think of to search for was inlaying shapes into timber, most commonly would be butterfly keys. It's all the same thing really.
https://youtu.be/hvzu6fWFskA
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