rodrocket

[rodrocket]

hi guys, hoping someone can give advice about the best combination machine for under $15k. I am totally new to woodworking, but am getting into home renovations. Did a total kitchen rebuild last year and I did the installation. Whilst the kitchen supplier did a great job, it was fairly expensive. With all the future work I intend doing (3 bathrooms, build a staircase into an attic garage etc) I am most likely going to buy myself a combination machine with either 4 or 5 functions and then source a local factory for things such as edgebanding etc. Tossing up between a range of machines purely seen on the net and are from suppliers such as minimax, hammer, xcalibur, rhino, robland etc.

Keeping in mind my noviceness, what machines would you recommend especially for ease of use and safety.

[aldav]

Welcome to the forum.
3 phase or single phase?
You might like to have a look at this - Sicar Combination Panel Saw Furore 300 I | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/272544265540?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
I've no connection to the seller, just noticed it on Ebay last week and lusted after it. :D

[rodrocket]

single phase and thanks

[old1955]

Welcome to the forum Rod.

[Chris Parks]

Talk to Hammer (Felder) or Minimax (Gabbett Machinery), both are good products and they have a fairly wide range to choose form.

[rodrocket]

Yeah, I think the quality may be better with them. Hammer seems more expensive than the minimax

[cava]

If I had the money,a Hammer would be in my place now! :D

[Mr Brush]

Do Hammer still have the non-standard sized mitre slots in all their products? A mate has a Hammer combo (C3-31), and that has to be one of the only annoying features - standard accessories don't fit.

[Mr Brush]

That Sicar machine is an absolute steal.....if only it were in NSW, and my shed was big enough.....:rolleyes:


Welcome to the forum.
3 phase or single phase?
You might like to have a look at this - Sicar Combination Panel Saw Furore 300 I | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/272544265540?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
I've no connection to the seller, just noticed it on Ebay last week and lusted after it. :D

[PaintMan]

I recently sold my 15 amp single phase MiniMax Cu300 after six years of faultless use and can recommend this quality Italian combi machine. In particular the sliding panel saw is excellent and will be the function you use the most. I have downsized and just finishing a new workshop where I plan to buy another MiniMax (SC-2 panel saw ) as I already have a spiral cutter head thicknesser. I would also suggest if you get a combination machine and intend to do a lot of spindle moulding you get a power feeder as this is not only safer but also eliminates snipe from hand feeding
Cheers,
Paintman

[rodrocket]

Thanks for the reply. As I'm new to all this, can you tell me that if I get the mortising option, should I also get the tenoning as well?

[PaintMan]

From my experience with extensive home renovation the most use will be made from the panelsaw with a scriber for cutting down laminated boards to make all manner of units. In addition a really good compound miter saw such as the German made Metabo is also essential for accurate trim work.(or Festool if you have the $$$) I also found the bandsaw something that was in regular use. In regard to having a boring attachment fitted to either the saw or in the case on MiniMax the side of the planner/Thicknesser I used that quite a bit for making cubboard door frames with either raised panel or ply inserts. The tennons were "floating" using off the shelf mountain ash. I have also used double biscuit miter joints as an alternative. Again quite useful if you plan to do some furniture. With a good panel saw you can make a jig to hold panels on their edge and run them by the saw blade set at say 27 degrees to get a raised panel. Use the spindle moulder to make the door frames and machine a slot to hold these panels. I do most of this with local blackwood and having a good spiral headed thicknesser makes preparing this stock quite easy.
Cheers,
Paintman

[rodrocket]

OK and thanks. I think I will go both and I do have a sliding compound mitre saw as well (a Swarts that I got from timbecon).

[ian]

Thanks for the reply. As I'm new to all this, can you tell me that if I get the mortising option, should I also get the tenoning as well?
this I find more than a little disconcerting.

If the intent behind buying the combination machine is so you can buy sheets of laminated or melanine MDF, or particle board, to break down to use in cabinets and built-ins, my suggestion is to get a proper sliding table panel saw with a large enough stroke to handle the largest sheet you will be buying.

Then add
dust collection

an edge bander -- I can't comment on a model, but the Festool portable unit might be within your budget.

Festool domino -- which should do for all your frame and panel work and much of your jointing, either in sheet material or solid wood.

either a line drilling machine or a Festool router / guide rail combo for drilling 32mm system shelf pin holes

and a decent drilling jig for installing Euro hinges -- which might be an attachment for a line drill if you go that route.

storage for your sheets goods and tooling.


my reasoning is why pay for functions on the combo machine which you will rarely, if ever use.
If you are thinking that you might make your own architraves, then purchasing a saw / spindle moulder combo (I think the Hammer B3 is an example.) BUT if you are thinking about making custom architraves, it is possibly more cost effective to buy clear straight timber already dressed to the desired starting dimensions.

[rodrocket]

Ian, thanks for this and great food for thought. When I originally started thinking about heading down the path of making my own cabinets/cupboards was that I should get a cnc router and table saw. The main reason being the precision in drilling shelf, handle and hinge holes etc. I then thought that instead of cnc, a mortiser/tenon combo would be a good substitute so I thought why not go the whole hog and get a 5 function combo. That said, I have been worrying about the loss of automated precision and whether the combo will cater for the hole side of things.

An edgebander. Would love one, especially if just using melamite, but thought I would initially see if I can get an arrangement with a local kitchen manufacturer to do the edgebanding. Haven't yet had a discussion about this though.

My workshop will be my new (yet to be constructed) 6 x 12 attic garage (45 degree pitched roof) of which half will be converted to living space and the other half will be storage/workshop/carpark so am concerned about the space side of things.

[ian]

An edgebander. Would love one, especially if just using melamite, but thought I would initially see if I can get an arrangement with a local kitchen manufacturer to do the edgebanding. Haven't yet had a discussion about this though.I would expect that contracting the edge banding only to a local kitchen manufacturer will be much more expensive than you think. Production wise it would be very disruptive to introduce pre-cut sheets into the production process. I expect that the most cost effective option would be to contract all the sheet cutting, drilling and edge banding to the kitchen maker, as usually they can supply a final drilled and edged panel for less than you can buy the raw material.