PDA

View Full Version : Optimal woodturning handle



Phily
22nd February 2017, 06:42 PM
Over the years I have inherited, been given and have purchased a large variety of chisels, some good, others not quite so good. I've made the decision to cull the not so good's then make new handles for the remaining so that they all match.

This raises an interesting question - is there an optimal handle shape, weight, timber, finish etc etc?

I'd love to hear thoughts on the key features of an optimal handle. One that enables precise work whilst at the same time minimising the stress on body parts. I suspect that there will be suggestions that different types & sizes of chisels require different handle features, there again maybe not!

If you agree with a post but have nothing to add, please Like it so I can get a sense of consensus.

Hopefully there will be enough feedback to enable me to turn one or more "optimal" handles that I can photograph and post onto the site as a reference for others (and perhaps further feedback).

Cheers
Phil

hughie
22nd February 2017, 07:33 PM
Are, another can of worms, how long is a piece of string ? :U

It depends on what it for, that is if its on a hefty gouge that I am going to lean into it and go crazy like a bull in a china shop. Then the handle is 450mm long or the length of my forearm with fingers extended. This is my longest handle its generally 25mm stainless tube with a foam cover bringing up to around 32mm dia this fits my hand well.

The wooden handles are various lengths all different as I tend to store them tool down and the different handles are for identifying them. Probably around 250-350mm with a few up around 400mm.

The Stainless is my standard handle as mentioned 450 and I have a shorter version 300mm for my internal sanding gear and some scrapers.

dai sensei
22nd February 2017, 07:53 PM
It varies, there may well be an optimal for you, but it wouldn't necessarily be for me. So at the end of the day, you must decide what suits you best, but then again it will vary based on the size and use of the chisel.

Phily
22nd February 2017, 08:38 PM
. Then the handle is 450mm long or the length of my forearm with fingers extended. This is my longest handle its generally 25mm stainless tube with a foam cover bringing up to around 32mm dia this fits my hand well.
.

A couple of interesting points Hughie related to grip: 32mm dia fitting your hand well - which accords to my research on optimal handle size being scientifically measured as being between 32mm and 38mm. I also note with interest the use of grooves on your handles - some for decoration and some for grip. Do you find that the grooves add any significant value e.g. less strain on the hand and/or improved handling?

Cheers Phil

Pat
22nd February 2017, 08:40 PM
As the above have said, depends on you, the chisel and what you want the chisel to do. My 12mm skew has a 100mm slim handle for fine control, 19mm Kelton bowl gouge has a straight handle about 400mm and some of my hollowing chisels have a handle about 500mm, lump of plastic coated steel.

Phily
22nd February 2017, 08:44 PM
It varies, there may well be an optimal for you, but it wouldn't necessarily be for me. So at the end of the day, you must decide what suits you best, but then again it will vary based on the size and use of the chisel.

Yep, agreed, but I suspect that there are a few key features that if teased out will aid folk in deciding what is best for them. For example is there a balance point on bowl gouges? Does having a bulbous front to the handle ease grip pressure? I don't know, but am interested in finding out.
Cheers
Phil

Phily
22nd February 2017, 08:53 PM
As the above have said, depends on you, the chisel and what you want the chisel to do. My 12mm skew has a 100mm slim handle for fine control, 19mm Kelton bowl gouge has a straight handle about 400mm and some of my hollowing chisels have a handle about 500mm, lump of plastic coated steel.

Thanks Pat, interesting that you prefer straight handles even for the larger gouges. Do you find that straight handles enable finer control across all size chisels?

Pat
22nd February 2017, 09:00 PM
Phil, for my larger gouges, the straight handles work well, as no matter where your hands are, the handle is the same, eg roughing , my hand is down on my hip, near the end of the handle and for fine finishing cuts, my hand is forward of middle. some of my gouges have the original P&N handle and they are about 100mm short, but I adjust to them.

powderpost
22nd February 2017, 09:13 PM
Again, it's horses for courses. My tool handles vary from 125mm long for thread chasing up to about 400mm as on the Stewart/Sorby hollowing tool. For the everyday tools the handles are about 275mm long and about 32mm diameter, roughly cigar shaped. Some of the early Sorby tools still have the sorby shaped handle, that does not worry me, niether does the length and diameter of the handle.

Jim

Phily
22nd February 2017, 10:22 PM
Phil, for my larger gouges, the straight handles work well, as no matter where your hands are, the handle is the same, eg roughing , my hand is down on my hip, near the end of the handle and for fine finishing cuts, my hand is forward of middle. some of my gouges have the original P&N handle and they are about 100mm short, but I adjust to them.

I have a few straight handles and don't mind them, but find that more often than not I reach for shaped timber handles so I guess I prefer shaped - in my case I have a bit of a buggered hand so I guess my sub-conscience is telling me to use the handles with easier grip (i.e. have a bulb).

issatree
23rd February 2017, 12:05 AM
Hi Phily,
What I did some 30 years ago, is I Read Richard Raffan's " Turning Wood ".
So towards the back of the book there is a Handle Shape that really took my fancy.
Copied it on A3 to 13in. - 310mm. went home & I still think they are the best handles there are & to work with. Thickness is up to you.
I only have a small hand so mine wood be no bigger than 30mm.
Being a bit of a cheap skate, I used Allum. Tubing from old Deck Chairs for Ferules.
Almost any wood works.

dai sensei
23rd February 2017, 12:12 AM
At home I have a wide range of handles but whilst travelling only 3. A large for roughing/big bowl gouge/big skew/boring bars/large TCT tools, the small for my mini tools, and the medium for everything else. I have 42 chisels in the travelling kit and to be honest now prefer them.

407025

hughie
23rd February 2017, 04:51 AM
A couple of interesting points Hughie related to grip: 32mm dia fitting your hand well - which accords to my research on optimal handle size being scientifically measured as being between 32mm and 38mm. I also note with interest the use of grooves on your handles - some for decoration and some for grip. Do you find that the grooves add any significant value e.g. less strain on the hand and/or improved handling?

Cheers Phil

I arrived at the diameter , by bringing my thumb and second finger together to make a circle and measured it [ the bird finger :) ].
Beads etc are for grip, as and when I need it. I dont hold my handles in a white knuckle or death grip :) too tiring. I tend to use a fairly relaxed grip backed up with good reflexes. Also I have my lathe height on my main go to lathe set high [1200 centres]. High so that when the big hollowing tools are on centre and the handle is parallel to the floor. They neatly tuck into the armpit, giving me excellent control. When using this I dont worry about being in the line of fire as I'm out at the tailstock end with handle 450+boring bar anywhere from 300-400 giving me around 750+. The bars are hardened steel 20mm dia, very stiff and I rarely go to 400 deep hover around 300 deep for most things.

The foam is very comfortable for me, hence the bulk of my tool handles have foam and certainly my armpit likes them as well :U The foam is not always easy to get as it has to fit the tube tightly and its fitted using compressed air to expand it, and certainly the tube is very stiff, yet light. I dont fill with lead shot as the boring bars go inside of the tube and are adjusted for length as I need them.

Paul39
23rd February 2017, 06:55 AM
I'm an old geezer, 77, with big hands with a tendency to cramp, and arthritis. I do mostly bowls so have big, fat, long handles on my gouges.

Some of the tools that are used briefly, parting, making spigots, I leave with the supplied handles.

The big handles and taking breaks away from the lathe every hour or so pretty much eliminated the hand cramping.

The shapes are generally straight or slightly tapering away from front to back. Measuring by Hughie's calculation my circle is 40mm diameter. That is about the diameter of the fat parts of my handles. I never measured, just turned down hunks of dense timber saved from the firewood pile until they felt good when I grabbed them on the lathe.

Phily
23rd February 2017, 10:01 AM
Richard Raffan's " Turning Wood ".
So towards the back of the book there is a Handle Shape that really took my fancy.
Copied it on A3 to 13in. - 310mm. went home & I still think they are the best handles there are & to work with.

I have the Revised & Updated version which has sketches of a handle related to the fitting of tangs but no drawings of a handle as such. Is this the shape that you are referring to or has the revised version omitted that section? Cheers Phil

Phily
23rd February 2017, 11:21 AM
At home I have a wide range of handles but whilst travelling only 3. A large for roughing/big bowl gouge/big skew/boring bars/large TCT tools, the small for my mini tools, and the medium for everything else. I have 42 chisels in the travelling kit and to be honest now prefer them.


407025

Thanks for the photo's, you've given me some ideas I'll experiment with!!

Phily
23rd February 2017, 11:25 AM
I'm an old geezer, 77, with big hands with a tendency to cramp, and arthritis.

Not quite up there on the age front but having a bit of a buggered hand from the old football days I certainly feel it after a day at the lathe. Its actually the key reason for the post as I want to make a set of chisels that I can use without my hand (and shoulder) feeling knackered at days end!

Phily
23rd February 2017, 11:28 AM
Thanks Hughie, great info and maybe next time you drop in I'll get you to have a look at my lathe height as I suspect I have it relatively lower than you have described - which may be a contributing factor to my shoulder aches!

WOODbTURNER
23rd February 2017, 02:14 PM
What ever works for you I always say. Have numerous wooden and aluminium handles bought and homemade but I have mainly started just taking aluminium ones to suit from pen turning to heavy stuff. The two on the left are made from hollow aluminium ladder step rungs with solid ends glued in and drilled to suit tool shaft.

407054407055

issatree
23rd February 2017, 04:42 PM
Hi Phil,
Well you've got me there. I only have the older Book, but most Libraries, Wood Clubs, or even Mens Sheds may have it.
It was the first book he wrote.
Just thinking you most likely could Google it, but be sure to use " Wooden Handle ".

Pat
23rd February 2017, 05:06 PM
My copy has the handle on page 155 :U

hughie
23rd February 2017, 05:37 PM
Thanks Hughie, great info and maybe next time you drop in I'll get you to have a look at my lathe height as I suspect I have it relatively lower than you have described - which may be a contributing factor to my shoulder aches!

conventional wisdom suggests that when you stand up and make your forearm parallel to the ground, thats the height for the centre of the chuck. Which for me seemed to low and is around 1m my lathe now is at 1200. The other lathe is at 1300, too high so much so its a darn hindrance as it has a wooden stand I have to cut the legs down...... one day :D

Phily
23rd February 2017, 05:47 PM
What ever works for you I always say. Have numerous wooden and aluminium handles bought and homemade but I have mainly started just 407054407055 aking aluminium ones to suit from pen turning to heavy stuff. The two on the left are made from hollow aluminium ladder step rungs with solid ends glued in and drilled to suit tool shaft.

PS Dunno what happened here!

Wow, how cool do these look. I think Stuart Batty must have nicked your design for his carbon fibre jobbies!!!!

Phily
23rd February 2017, 05:49 PM
:D
conventional wisdom suggests that when you stand up and make your forearm parallel to the ground, thats the height for the centre of the chuck. Which for me seemed to low and is around 1m my lathe now is at 1200. The other lathe is at 1300, too high so much so its a darn hindrance as it has a wooden stand I have to cut the legs down...... one day

Yep, exactly the way I've done it - and yes, it feels too low. Ahhh, another critical job in the shed:wink:

Phily
23rd February 2017, 05:51 PM
My copy has the handle on page 155 :U

My page 155 is about using scrapers for finishing cuts. Not even a sketch:C

Pat
23rd February 2017, 07:06 PM
Turning Wood with Richard Raffan, published 1991, reprinted 1995 by Lothian . . .

Kuffy
23rd February 2017, 07:20 PM
I am surprised no one suggested that the handles should be different from tool to tool so that your hands are gripping differently throughout the day instead of being locked in the one position. Saves on the cramping by using a slightly different grip every few minutes when you change from skew to gouge to parting and back to skew etc. I guess this would only apply to the production turners that actually do it all day every day. FWIW, I like the big fat chunky handle on my P&N bowl gouge because my wrists are fubar (ulnar nerve) from being a professional pickerupperer and putbackdowner for too long and I really hate gripping skinny things tightly. a fat handle has more surface area in contact with my hand so I can stay in control without using a white knuckle bear grip.

Phily
23rd February 2017, 07:23 PM
Turning Wood with Richard Raffan, published 1991, reprinted 1995 by Lothian . . .

Mine is 2001 (signed by Richard in 2015). I know he drops in at the Canberra woodturning club, maybe they have some examples of his handles. Ummmm

WOODbTURNER
23rd February 2017, 09:17 PM
Mine is 2001 (signed by Richard in 2015). I know he drops in at the Canberra woodturning club, maybe they have some examples of his handles. Ummmm

Mine was signed in 2001 when he gave a demo up here in Darwin

407097

chuck1
23rd February 2017, 09:23 PM
Ido production turning and none of my handles are the same to help me identify them by handles as there is shavings everywhere.
Handles consist of hardwood. Jarrah, oak red gum, ash etc
As to shape still searching!

Phily
23rd February 2017, 09:24 PM
Mine was signed in 2001 when he gave a demo up here in Darwin

407097
Dam, I thought I had the only signed copy!!!:C

WOODbTURNER
23rd February 2017, 10:01 PM
Dam, I thought I had the only signed copy!!!:C


Lol!!

hughie
24th February 2017, 08:15 AM
I am surprised no one suggested that the handles should be different from tool to tool so that your hands are gripping differently throughout the day instead of being locked in the one position. Saves on the cramping by using a slightly different grip every few minutes when you change from skew to gouge to parting and back to skew etc. I guess this would only apply to the production turners that actually do it all day every day. FWIW, I like the big fat chunky handle on my P&N bowl gouge because my wrists are fubar (ulnar nerve) from being a professional pickerupperer and putbackdowner for too long and I really hate gripping skinny things tightly. a fat handle has more surface area in contact with my hand so I can stay in control without using a white knuckle bear grip.


Good point, the cramping often has a medical reason for turning up. The lack of fluids ie water this is a very common reason for cramping.

https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/publication/whats-your-plate/water
https://www.nestlenutrition-institute.org/Education/practical-tools/Documents/Waters_Senior_light_pages.pdf

The white knuckle grip is a very hard habit to conquer and some never do. I think much of its is how we think and the perhaps confidence, either way it aint easy to break a life time habit.

As to the ergonomics of handle design it has come to the fore with other crafts and professions more so than ever.

http://ergonomics.uq.edu.au/eaol/handle.pdf
https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/ergonomics/handtools/tooldesign.html
http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/studentdownloads/DEA3250pdfs/Hand%20Tools.pdf
and
https://paulsellers.com/2014/12/changing-the-shape-of-ash-chisel-handles/

But much of what we see is traditional or atleast greatly influenced by tradition and if your starting out your experience level will be minimal and so tradition becomes the norm, add to that our resistance to change etc :) .
But by the look of it there are several hundred years of experience here behind the answers here, so thats good . But I would doubt one size fits all, as well as what ever medical conditions are effecting the body at any one time. As mate of mine once said 'if I woke up pain free I would probably be dead' :U .

Phily
24th February 2017, 08:32 AM
I like the big fat chunky handle on my P&N bowl gouge because my wrists are fubar (ulnar nerve).

With you on that one. I have permanently seized joints in my hand from football injuries (40 yrs ago). Not the best thing to have as a wood turner!

Phily
24th February 2017, 09:05 AM
But by the look of it there are several hundred years of experience here behind the answers here, so thats good .

That's definitely true Hughie though as inferred in one of the articles you posted (thanks for that) there may well be a great deal of habit and reluctance to change assiciated with this history. One of the first projects that most woodturners choose for themselves is to make their own handles with little consideration as to which may be the best timber, shape or length. If I'm a typical example, several itterations and variations are made over the years, even if for no other reason than having a bit of spare time and thinking that that a block of timber would make a really nice looking handle (eg Wenge!). In my case this has resulted in a variety of shapes and sizes that I think match the tool and have the advantage that Kuffy refers to of not being locked in to one shape for the hand grip.
I'd love to tap into the millenium of experience but suspect that like everyone else its going to be a continuation of experimentation to find personal preferences. I wonder if anyone has ever tried to catalogue suggested handle shapes for differing types and sizes of tools??

Fuzzie
24th February 2017, 09:35 AM
I like the first criteria for evaluation in the UQ doc above:

13. VALIDATION - CHECKING OUT HANDLE DESIGN
• The Mark 1, zero mode, naked eye-ball test. Does it look right?
• Does it feel right, consciously? Is the load comfortable?
• The wet slippery soapy hand test - will the handle feel secure without having
to rely on friction?
• What is the maximum force that can be exerted on it? (This can be measured
using instruments as simple as a kitchen scale and a bathroom scale).
• What is previous experience with such handles? Are there publications or
catalogues or internet examples of them?
• Is the handle used in the expected way?

hughie
24th February 2017, 10:31 AM
assessing , evaluating , critiquing handles etc is probably can of worms. Consider , the minimalist, the artistic, the professional to name a few who will have definite preferences on looks, before we get into Fuzzies list. Because we are all different I suspect we can come together on some of the basics and there will be many exceptions ie I have a friend who has a 25mm gouge with a 1.8m handle. He reckons its the best thing ever, I coudnt use it in my shed the damn thing would touch the walls :)

Richard Raffan made a comment about sharpening several years ago that underlined a thought worth considering. The question to him was about sharpening and getting a good edge and finish. He said and this is a paraphrase 'it doesnt matter how the grind looks as long as it cuts for you'.
Now I fall into that category, much of what I make for myself in the way of tools lathes etc does the job but lacks any fine detail or fancy finish. Most folk who visit are very gracious :)
I would welcome the results of such an excerise but cant really get involved as it would take up too much of my time. It would need a fairly indepth look at handles and my background suggests it would be very involved with much detail.

NeilS
25th February 2017, 11:31 AM
My only advice is make your handles one at a time, test them and discover progressively what works best for you.

As a starting point begin with a design from an experienced turner like Richard Raffan or Brendan Stemp, and modify from that to suit yourself.

I found over 50 years of turning that longer, lighter and thinner works for me.

I wear rigger gloves when I'm turning and mostly outboard, so that has an influence on my preferred sizes.

Here are a few photos...

407184

407185

407186

407187

At the thinnest points the profiled handles go down to 25mm.

The 1/2" gouge handles are about 300mm long

The 5/8" and larger gouge handles are about 400-500mm long

The handles on deep hollowing and coring tools about 500-600mm.

I don't notice a big difference between straight and profiled. One of my favourites is the curtain rod (yes, just cut to length) on the left in the first photo. The flutes running along its length provide a nice grip. I would make all of my handles out of curtain rod, but, as others point out, the handles help to quickly identify your various gouges. Yes, I could paint the handles different colours to do that, but that doesn't appeal to me aesthetically.

The waist point on my profiled handles are carefully located to sit at the most commonly held position to which my hand returns most frequently.

On the balance point, I don't like my tools to be too handle or gouge end heavy. So, shot filled handles have never felt comfortable for me; longer and lighter worked better. I rarely work with a tailstock, so length is not an issue there.

The handles that I least enjoy are those that came on my old P&Ns, of which I have a few, but nice brass ferrules!

The small handle on the left in the third photo is one that you don't see very often; very Scandinavian and mid-century modern. It is the reverse of the cigar shape and quite nice to use, IMO, especially on smaller tools. Worth trying if you haven't done so.

The one thing I can say for sure is that my next handle will be different in some way from all my others.

Stay sharp!

Neil

Phily
26th February 2017, 11:06 PM
Thanks Neil, a great post - serious thanks. Several thought provoking ideas and also intriguing seeing all those tool shapes - wondering exactly what they are used for!! I also like the curtain rod flute idea for grip - a variation on Woodbturner's ladder rung idea. The Scandinavian shape looks very cute - kind of counter intuative to a comfortable grip but I'm guessing that with fine work there is a tendancy to alter hand positioning and this shape aids with grip?
I'm with you on lead shot. I've played around trying to get the correct balance and in the end just gone with a lighter slightly longer handle.
Pat kindly scanned and emailed me a Raffin designed handle which will definitely be used as a design premise for my bowl gouges - though I'm not sure how it will appeal asthetically if I flute it as well!!
Thanks again
Phil

Phily
26th February 2017, 11:15 PM
I would welcome the results of such an excerise but cant really get involved as it would take up too much of my time. It would need a fairly indepth look at handles and my background suggests it would be very involved with much detail.

No stress Hughie, I very much appreciate your thoughts and input. This post has been excellent in enabling me to gather information and ideas. The photo's are also excellent guides and prove the point when experienced turners show such eclectic shapes and sizes that there is no such thing as an "optimal shaped handle". I've already started drawing up some ideas and will continue to mull over for a while. I'll give you a yell when I'm ready for someone to test my prototypes:U

hughie
28th February 2017, 07:10 PM
No stress Hughie, I very much appreciate your thoughts and input. This post has been excellent in enabling me to gather information and ideas. The photo's are also excellent guides and prove the point when experienced turners show such eclectic shapes and sizes that there is no such thing as an "optimal shaped handle". I've already started drawing up some ideas and will continue to mull over for a while. I'll give you a yell when I'm ready for someone to test my prototypes:U


Yeah as I mentioned its a bit of a can of worms and most definetly one size doesn't fit all.:)

Well as Neil suggested make one and try it, see how you go. Mine kinda evolved over time, never did have a favourite shape and really didnt look for one. I was never ever going to make a matched set as some do, a bit too pragmatic for that.
All I found was the greatest variation/change etc related to what it does. If you hollow the deeper you go the longer the handle get . I now have a couple around 500+ so the saga continues :)

Wood Nut
3rd March 2017, 10:34 AM
Dam, I thought I had the only signed copy!!!:C

You know I've got one as well Phil.
Read this post with interest, but at the end of the day you need the handle to be comfortable and fit for purpose. It also helps to distinguish between tools, especially if you can't turn two the same :).
Cheers mate

Paul39
3rd March 2017, 12:56 PM
I read the paraphrased following in a turning book about two turners. Can't remember the book or the turners.

Famous Turner One was demonstrating with a favorite tool with a raggedy handle, ferrule was bailing wire more or less wrapped around the handle.

Famous Turner Two told him that was a disgrace and made him a beautiful handle and presented it to FT1.

Several months later FT1 was demonstrating and using old raggedy handle on favorite tool. FT2 asked why he was not using the nice handle.

FT1 said "It's too pretty to use, and I like the feel of the old one".

Phily
4th March 2017, 10:09 AM
You know I've got one as well Phil.
Read this post with interest, but at the end of the day you need the handle to be comfortable and fit for purpose. It also helps to distinguish between tools, especially if you can't turn two the same :).
Cheers mate

I'm starting to like the idea of picking my 4 favourite go to tools, making handles from the same materials but tweaking the design to both fit the chisel type and so I can quickly find the one I want to use.:2tsup:

Phily
4th March 2017, 10:31 AM
FT1 said "It's too pretty to use, and I like the feel of the old one".

A good yarn and proves that we all have our own unique preferences. I bet FT1 also used an old Taylor HSS chisel with his own variation on an Ellsworth grind. Couldn't see the point of spending money on cryogenic stuff when its so quick and easy to hand grind an edge!:roll:
And nothing wrong with that point of view either!! For me, I enjoy using nice looking tools, but they also have to be functional - not just pretty to look at. Quite a few of the handles I've bought from big name manufacturers look the part but have not been the best to hold. It takes a fair bit of willpower to reef out the tool and put the pretty handle to one side in preference for my home made job!:C

Paul39
4th March 2017, 10:40 AM
I'm starting to like the idea of picking my 4 favourite go to tools, making handles from the same materials but tweaking the design to both fit the chisel type and so I can quickly find the one I want to use.:2tsup:

If you store them pointy end up it is not hard to find the right one.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1440&bih=748&q=rack+for+turning+tools&oq=rack+for+turning+tools&gs_l=img.12..0i24k1.2657.10366.0.14495.23.12.0.10.10.0.403.1355.4j3j1j0j1.9.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..4.19.1407.0..0j0i10k1j0i30k1j0i5i30k1.ejxK_r8WeVc

For those of us tool sluts, we would run out of ideas for distinctive handles on our 50 - 70 favorite tools.:D

Phily
4th March 2017, 11:32 AM
LoL, yes, 4 favourites is a bit modest even for me! Pointy end up is a good idea prodided that the storage ensures safety against an accidental catch - I use enough bandaids as is!!:C

Paul39
4th March 2017, 11:57 AM
LoL, yes, 4 favourites is a bit modest even for me! Pointy end up is a good idea prodided that the storage ensures safety against an accidental catch - I use enough bandaids as is!!:C

I had that thought looking at all the sharp end up tools, but forgot to include it. I have also learned not to put a skew under the lathe on the bench, and to remove the point and cone live center from the tailstock when hollowing a bowl.

The skew missed my foot, and I only made a small hole in my upper arm.

Phily
4th March 2017, 03:31 PM
remove the point and cone live center from the tailstock.

One of the advantages of owning a long bed lathe is being able to slide the tailstock well out of the way. Admittedly it did take several altercations and a few nice scratches before I automatically began to shift it!!