Spindle Lift

[Chris Parks]

I have been a bit crook this week and doing nothing has always made me think about stuff and one of this week think tank sessions was a lift to suit a CNC spindle in a router table. Taking cues from one of the videos I posted a vertical panel of some MDF/plywood/whatever takes your fancy fixed under the table could be used in conjunction with the bracket that comes with some spindles. Mount the bracket on some tracks, put a long ACME threaded screw in the assembly somehow and have the top of the screw with a drive key flush with the table surface, the details to be finalised as I haven't thought it past that. The advantage is that more than one spindle could be mounted on the vertical panel, no router plate is needed, no expensive lift to buy, way less bulk under the table and it would be easy to put a DRO on each lift if more than one is installed. Another advantage is a stepper motor could drive the lift or even a small DC motor, maybe even a cordless drill that the batteries have gone south on. Just food for thought because it has not gone past the rough outline stage, MandJ's fabulous table kicked the thinking process into gear and he looks like a clever bloke so he might like to give it some thought.

[woodPixel]

Linear actuators!

[Chris Parks]

Wot!?

[MandJ]

Totally agree with Linear actuators, looked at a few and decided that as I'm going to go to a CNC later on I'd use the $12.00 option on the current router and save the elegant and more expensive lift design for the final CNC motor install.

Chris, hope you are feeling better soon.

Mike.

BTW Looks can be deceiving :U

[Chris Parks]

I just watched a video on linear actuators and I reckon that definitely looks like the ducks insides and opens up possibilities. I could use one to operate a blast gate was an instant thought, a bit slow but I'm retired so speed is not so important. A couple of ground shafts, some bushes and a few other bits and a lift would be the result. I can't see the price of all that being $500 and multiple spindles are possible in one normal sized table.

EDIT: I have just worked out another benefit to using a side mount for the spindle, it removes a heap of weight from being fixed to the top so the top will not bend as much if at all.

[BobL]

A couple of years ago when the mens shed was collecting stuff from a rehab hospital that had been closed down there were a series of vacated workshops with all manner of interesting stuff left behind. In a couple of workshops which had been used to make prostheses and other aids there were boxes and boxes of electrical parts and components all left behind and headed for the skip. We had limited time to go through this section so I grabbed a trolley and filled it with whatever was of immediate interest. In amongst it all I found about a half a dozen linear actuators. We had to leave a lot of stuff behind so there may have been more there I just didn't look that hard. When I got them back to the mens shed I checked out the actuators and all except one worked. From memory the gearing/throw on all but one of the actuators is a bit long (~300mm) for precise positioning like a router table. One is more lightweight than the others, probably too lightweight for a router but could be suitable for a blast gate. I need to go back and have a look at them again.

[MandJ]

Some of the troubles encountered with the lower cost Linear Actuators that I'd be willing to use are speed and accuracy. I know some small units with around 100mm travel can do 50mm/s, however at that speed and price point, I would think setting a shift of 1mm or less would be difficult, there are some very small units that are designed with very slow travel rates. I'm thinking that you could use a high speed unit for Bit changing and getting to within a few mm, then use the smaller fine unit to adjust the final precision settings.

Some of these things go into the $1000.00, but I think a low cost solution could be arrived at. I like the compactness of the Tack units (side rail no rod), and combining one with a fine slow small unit should be doable.

Really need to look into it further or find someone who has already got this sorted, with speed and precision in one unit at low cost (SUB $300), or has another way to do both.

Whatever is used for the quick vertical movement of the Motor for bit changing, also needs to hold its position under weight and vibration without having to physically lock drive system used. That, I'm thinking, could be problematic for a fast movement linear actuator?? Don't know if electrically shunting these motors would hold them?

Has anyone used different types of actuators - especially low cost units?

Otherwise it's back to something I know well, big beefy stepper motors that can be programmed easily to spin fast when needed and single step for fine adjustment, but of course the problem of making a compact drive system with sub mm play requires some fabrication and component sourcing. Hopefully someone who has "been there done that" can shine a blinding light at the problem and show us a low cost solution.

If all else fails, I reckon I could pull that small $12.00 scissor jack down, fit some bearings and with a bit of refinement I could get way more precision out of it, then it would be perfect for my needs. Would cost me next to nothing to do IMHO - and I could easily drive that with a big stepper if needed, but hand control even now is pretty easy.

[Chris Parks]

I had a thought this afternoon while discussing this with NCArcher, if the lift is not attached to the top the top can easily be made to lift off and on sitting on registration pins not that that is really necessary I suppose. I saw somewhere on YT linear actuators with a speed actuator, here we go..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AoNs0IEaFY



Would it be possible to just use a single axis set from a real CNC, can they be bought that way? I know zilch about this stuff so ignore me if I ask stupid questions.

[MandJ]

My only concern with speed control of the DC motor was with the reduction in torque, but thinking about it and considering the gearing ratio and the relatively low weight of the motor this may well be all we need for a single unit to work. I'm now thinking it would work fine with just a speed control as shown in the Video as that unit is using a more advanced speed control device.

Looks Like I may have to get a low cost unit and run some tests, unless someone has already done this and can tell us how much fine control we can get and not lose the torque required to reliably elevate / lower the motor in very small increments.

[MandJ]

Deleted - same as above.

[Lappa]

Just came across this unit. Looks interesting and price seems reasonable.

Ready2Lift Router Lift with 8-1/4'' x 11-3/4'' Rockler Plate | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware (http://www.rockler.com/ready2lift-router-lift-with-8-1-4-x-11-3-4-rockler-plate?avad=55963_fe111aa7)

Maybe not so reasonable. Just saw the price of the controller that it requires so total is near on $900.

[KBs PensNmore]

It might be pricey, but for a small production shop where time is money, it'll save a lot of time, just dial in the height and away you go. Takes me about 10 minutes to fine tune adjust my old Makita/Triton router bench.
Works out a bit over $1,000 plus freight.
Kryn

[Chris Parks]

Just came across this unit. Looks interesting and price seems reasonable.

Ready2Lift Router Lift with 8-1/4'' x 11-3/4'' Rockler Plate | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware (http://www.rockler.com/ready2lift-router-lift-with-8-1-4-x-11-3-4-rockler-plate?avad=55963_fe111aa7)

Maybe not so reasonable. Just saw the price of the controller that it requires so total is near on $900.

Forget the price, the problem I have with that is it hangs from the top and needs the top to be thick enough to prevent the weight bending it. Side mount the spindle and that problem goes away, no router insert plate needed and the top can be made to either hinge or just lift off if needed. There would be another benefit to side mounting, the spindle could rise through the top to clear the chuck if a suitable insert was made.

[woodPixel]

These solutions seem to be coming thick and fast now: https://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/powerlift_table_ultimate.html

[Chris Parks]

It was only a matter of time after the first one appeared a couple of years ago and that controlled the fence as well.

[MandJ]

Forget the price, the problem I have with that is it hangs from the top and needs the top to be thick enough to prevent the weight bending it. Side mount the spindle and that problem goes away, no router insert plate needed and the top can be made to either hinge or just lift off if needed. There would be another benefit to side mounting, the spindle could rise through the top to clear the chuck if a suitable insert was made.

Totally agree Chris, this is what I'll be doing when I switch to the CNC motor, and I already have the table top hinged for lifting.

As you likely know, I also don't have an insert plate in my table, and the only reason I mounted my custom base plate into a recess in the table top was (as you said) to allow the collet to rise through the table to a height for one spanner auto shaft lock bit changing with the Triton router. That height (travel) restriction is no longer a problem with a CNC motor and there is no reason to even mount the CNC motor to the underside of the table. The motor, DRO, and lift mechanism using a linear actuator with speed control can be built as a robust solid mounted unit that sits independently below the table with no loss of precision in height adjustment with respect to the table top. And I retain the design I use with purpose built swappable inserts plates in the table for different routing and dust extraction tasks, and without a stupid lump of insert plate blocking bit dust extraction and air flow, which was the reason I made a custom base plate in the first place.

But of course this is for my simple DIY home workshop, not a business situation which I fully understand will likely have totally different priorities with respect to dust extraction performance, table setup, and large scale repeatable routing tasks.