Cheese Knife Handles

[Brianne163]

After posting ref "Suitability of Timbers", I received several comments.
For better or worse I have gone with the following timbers.
American Oak
Huon Pine
Red cedar
Yellow Wattle
Maple
Beefwood
Crows Ash
Red Ironbark
This was a major project to make 40 handles, five in each timber.
Now completed...See attached photo. I only hope I have put enough Super Glue in to hold them together.
Would anyone care to estimate what price they would charge for doing this?

Timber did not cost anything. Only outlay was $9.00 for glue + time.
I may not have done the attachment bit correctly.

409554

[dai sensei]

Looking good. Don't worry about the timbers, people are eating what the knives cut, not the handles on the knives.

[ian]

This was a major project to make 40 handles, five in each timber.

Would anyone care to estimate what price they would charge for doing this?

Timber did not cost anything. Only outlay was $9.00 for glue + time.Hi Brianne

are these intended to be sold individually or in sets of 5?
If it's a set of 5, then you will have already noticed that one of the Yellow Wattle handles is a different colour to the others.

With well polished blades and handles and displayed in limited numbers on the right coloured cloth background (so that the knives looked both "classy" and scarce), I might pay as much as $15 to $20 each at a market. I'd perhaps buy 2 if the deal was $20 each, two for $30.

An alternate valuation is to determine how long each handle took to make -- and then to value your time at $30 to $40 per hour.
BTW, the blades themselves are about $5 each CWS Store - Cutlery Blanks (http://www.cwsonline.com.au/shop/category/cutlery-blanks)

[hughie]

Brianne, you're the artist so you choose the timber. It's all about finish and not everybody wants real pretty wood, some are utility some are artistic if you have a range you cater to a wider group of buyers.

They look good to me :2tsup:

[Brianne163]

[QUOTE=ian;2016004]Hi Brianne

are these intended to be sold individually or in sets of 5?
If it's a set of 5, then you will have already noticed that one of the Yellow Wattle handles is a different colour to the others.

Reply
Thanks everyone for comments.
Yes, I realise now I should have fitted that handle the opposite way round as the colour matches more on the other side.
Never done a project this big before.
Sorry re costing.
The customer already purchased the blades from Tasmanian Woodturning Supplies @ $2.30 each (small). They are intended for a wedding.
I was looking for an estimate of what I should charge for making the 40 handles. I had thought $2.50 per handle.

[Robson Valley]

I'd be happy to pay $15 for the plain ones and $20 for a knife of yours with a really interesting, figured wood handle.
So think about this: How much time do you think that you have put into each knife, from start to finish?

In my spoon (70) and fork (30) carving days, I had to go like Hello in batches of 10 or 12 to get them kitchen ready in 90 minutes each. $12.00 each was top dollar.

[ian]

Thanks everyone for comments.
Yes, I realise now I should have fitted that handle the opposite way round as the colour matches more on the other side.
Never done a project this big before.
Sorry re costing.
The customer already purchased the blades from Tasmanian Woodturning Supplies @ $2.30 each (small). They are intended for a wedding.
I was looking for an estimate of what I should charge for making the 40 handles. I had thought $2.50 per handle.$2.50 per handle would translate to about 3 hours work.

Your customer might blanch at $1000, but surely not at $500. The wedding budget is probably greater than $25,000, maybe a lot more, see

https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/managing-your-money/budgeting/simple-ways-to-save-money/how-much-can-a-wedding-cost
https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2014/02/the-average-australian-wedding-costs-36200-infographic/

[BobL]

Hmmmmmmm. . . . I've had jobs like this where I said we'll sort the costs out later and neither of us have been happy about it.
These days I sort a price out up front.
In general terms I think Ian is close to the mark.

Oh Yeah and nice work on the handles too.

[Brianne163]

$2.50 per handle would translate to about 3 hours work.

/ (https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2014/02/the-average-australian-wedding-costs-36200-infographic/)

Thanks again guys
Being a full time volunteer at our local Historical Village ( herveybaymuseum.com.au ) I guess I tend to undervalue my labour.
I will certainly take all your comments on board, especially for the next project.

[ozka]

First of all, lovely work and nice choice of timber species. You would have enjoyed finishing the last one off I bet:yes:, No. 40.

I feel that unfortunately, you'll never get what you deserve, or even 'need' to make up for your time etc. The unbelievably cheap Chinese production line imports make it very hard for an average income earner to justify paying 500%-1000% more for the locally made custom items over the very cheap, often nasty but comparable, imported item usually made out of 'rubber wood; ( a south east asian timber???)

As others have mentioned, it will be a small cost in the whole scheme of things for a wedding. Im really only guessing, but surely you'd really need to charge at least $10-$15 each to make it even worthwhile doing and even then you'd have earned every last cent.

Being commissioned to do a custom piece/pieces for a client, without quoting the job first, you'd assume (hope:?) the client would be expecting to pay markedly more than the off the shelf equivalent.:C

[Brianne163]

First of all, lovely work and nice choice of timber species. You would have enjoyed finishing the last one off I bet:yes:, No. 40.

.:C

Yes, Number 40 was very pleasing. Of course, then came the job of fitting all the handles to the knives. When that was done, I was really pleased. i will keep you all posted as to final remuneration etc.
Next job will be quoted up front.
Brian

[pommyphil]

Note.....Rubber wood from Rubber trees,( Ficus sp ?) very sustainable. I think they cut the old trees for timber then plant new ones to tap. Young and sappy etc.

Phil

[NeilS]

If I was selling these through the gallery I supply and they were priced at $15 - $20, as Ian suggests, I would get $8.52 and $11.36 respectively. Deduct the cost of the blade from that.

I'm not sure I would make them for that, but if you enjoyed making them, so what. At least you now know what is involved if you plan to go into production.

Stay sharp!

Neil

[Bushmiller]

Brian

I think you can be well pleased with the result of those knives. They look really good to my mind. Were they done freehand or with a copy lathe. They are so regular in shape. Either way they are still "Hand Made." For something like this you are never going to achieve a "fair" price for your work I'm afraid. There is a mile of disappointment for those that think they will. The exception for this is the bespoke style tools that the specialist toolmakers produce (Colen Clenton, HNT Gordon, Chris Vesper etc to mention some of the Aussie specialists). They have spent years building their reputations. I'm afraid the humble cheese knife is not in that category, but that does detract from the effect. They are good and a credit to you. Pricing? Don't expect too much, but enjoy the warm fuzzy feeling that comes with the final result and the endorsement from your peers.

Regards
Paul

[Brianne163]

Hand made.
No 1 was easy, No 2 more difficult, No 40 Hooray! Matching is never easy.
The only reason I got this request was that a local lady was looking for a woodturner and saw my name on our website where I was talking about Biros and Fountain Pens made from 100 year old Urangan Pier timber as part of the Pier Centenary celebrations.
Pier Pens - Hervey Bay Historical Village & Museum (http://herveybaymuseum.com.au/pier-pens/).
In agree with your philosophy re final result.

[Grommett]

I get my cutlery blades from Tassie Turning supplies and sell the finished knife for $15. After commission, 15%, something for glue, finish, sandpaper and you must cost the blank, my guess would be $8 per handle.
They look pretty good.

[ian]

Hi Brian

I think your pens establish a price point for your work.
a custom cheese knife would be about the same amount of work as one of your Biros.
take away the cost of the supplied blade and you're still looking at around $20 each.

[Paul39]

Brianne,

Lovely handles. You have the patience of Job.

Somewhere I have read that if one has a full time job and does craft work on the side for money, one should charge twice your per hour rate at your full time job for craft work. That sounds reasonable to me.

I make bowls and sell them through a craft shop. The shop gets 40% of the selling price.

I make the very best bowl I can and then ask the shop owner, "what do you think we can get for this". She knows what will sell and about what to charge. I made a spectacular bowl from highly figured locust stump and told the owner that I thought it was a $100 bowl. She agreed and we agreed to price it at $95 so it would sell. It did within two weeks.

Some of my things have taken two years to sell. Everything I have taken there has sold.

Occasionally I will make something and show it to a friend or acquaintance. Sometimes they must have that bowl. I charge what they would pay in the shop.

[NeilS]

I make bowls and sell them through a craft shop. The shop gets 40% of the selling price.

I make the very best bowl I can and then ask the shop owner, "what do you think we can get for this". She knows what will sell and about what to charge.

Like Paul, I make bowls and bowl like forms. I please myself as to what I make, and finish to a standard that meets my own expectations, which is usually higher than what is required.

In my case the gallery owner, as did his predecessor, expects me to price the pieces. To help with this I keep a database (going back ten years now) of the sizes, woods and photo images of all past pieces and how long they take to sell. This is useful with the pricing of the next batch to go to the gallery.

My prices have gradually gone up over the last 15yrs. I also keep an eye on the prices set by the other turners, and I expect they are doing the same with mine. I'm still selling everything I make, some pieces a little slower than others, which suits me. Some of the more expensive pieces sit there longer, but they serve to attract attention, which then draws buyers in to look more closely at my less expensive pieces that are my regular sellers.

I'm happy to share off-forum (PM me) a sample of my current pricing with any forum member who is regularly selling their work through a gallery. But keep in mind that your market may be different to mine. Something is only worth what someone will pay. Your 'someones' may have more or less money in their pockets or different priorities as to what they will spend their money on.

I turn for my own satisfaction. That is my reward. It also happens to pay for itself in that it is positive on the bank balance, ie. until I decide to buy a another lathe, or whatever bit of kit takes my fancy. As my wife can see the sales coming in each month she doesn't blink when I spend some of that on the workshop. I know, I'm very fortunate to be in that position.

BUT, I could never make a living from just turning. There are very few turners anywhere that can. So, let's get realistic, the prices we charge have nothing to do with making a living. We turn for pleasure and by selling our work we can continue to do what we love doing and then others will hopefully get pleasure from owning or giving our pieces to others. And in doing so we also support our local galleries who are run by excellent people (in my experience) who add aesthetic value to our lives.

Apologies for the long post, but one thing led to another. Hopefully some bits of it will be of some use to someone... :-)




Stay sharp!

Neil

[artme]

Very good looking knives. I always find they go down well as gifts.

What finish?? I only use CA theses days and tell people NOT to was the knife ( especially in the dishwasher!!).
My advice iswipe with a damp cloth, or if needed wash only by hand withe a warm soapy cloth and wipe dry immediately.