Thicknesser advice

[Tjc123]

Hi all,
I’m looking to get a thicknesser and was just hoping for some advice on what I should get.

I’ll be mainly putting through old fence palings so 10-15mm thick but occasionally some thicker hardwoods as well. It will get used for about 2-3hs per week. After reading through all the old threads I have decided on spiral heads but I’m not sure what machine will best suit my needs.

I’ve been looking at

Carbatec TH-X381C
https://www.carbatec.com.au/machinery-and-accessories/thicknessers-and-accessories/thicknessers/thicknesser-15in-1ph-240v-spiral-cutter-head-old-code-ctj-381x

and the

Hafco T-380S
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W414S


Are these machines what I should be thinking about getting or should I just be using a benchtop model?

Thanks for any advice,
Tom

[DomAU]

Hi Tom,

Do you already have a jointer? If you want to end up with straight and parallel boards you will need both a jointer and thicknesser. Alternatively a hand jointer plane in place of a machine jointer.

If you don't have a jointer, and don't need a width beyond 12" you could look into a combination machine such as the Jet 310HH or equivalent. Or, if you have the real-estate and budget a long-bed jointer and a separate 15-20" thicknesser would provide more capability.

[Tjc123]

Hi DomAU,

Thanks for the reply. I have a hand jointer plane but it's not great. I should probably replace it and get a combination machine. The Jet 310HH is a bit outside my price range unfortunately. I guess I will have to go for a 10" machine or a 12" without the Helical Heads. Has anyone tried the TJ-X250P?

https://www.carbatec.com.au/machinery-and-accessories/planer-thicknessers/planer-thicknessers/10-planer-thicknesser-combo-old-code-aw106ptx-with-spiral-head

It doesn't look all that appealing to me. Perhaps the Jet is the better purchase and then I can change the heads down the track when I have a bit more cash.

[Tahlee]

I have one of these .. the spiral/helix head one ... for 2 years now ...

Here is a video on them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ppb52hCgKU

I am very happy with the machine ... use it several times per week.

You have to take the cast iron fence off and fold back the jointer table to access the thichneser ... takes less than 1 minute ... some say its a pain but I tend to do all my jointing and then convert my machine to a thicknesser ... I would think that this swap over would take less time than rolling out separate machines

I have rotated the blades twice ... once a year ... I think you can resharpen them ... they are costly if you cant.... but I have another 2 years before the blades are rotated on all four sides.

My big tip is to get the Axminster height dial gauge ... they are fantastic ... can really rely of the accuracy and cut reliably to within 0.05mm.

The big note is that the motor is 1.5hp ... and it can really do a full 245mm board of walnut to 1mm .... but I prefer to do such wide boards at a lesser rate.

The Jet 310 is a better machine ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuTkYUCX3ao but I have never been let down by the Carbatec model.

You will need to get a dial indicator to confirm the setup ... BIG TIP dont mess around with the set-up unless you have a dial indicator.

I get absolutely no snipe on the jointer ... or lengths under 1.5m on the thickneser ... for long boards of 2.4M i do get some snipe but only because i dont have a long outfeed table.

The helix head is actually less s noisy than the dust collector .. do yourself a favour and get the helix head first off.

Make sure you get a good 4 wheel base ... all 4 wheels pivot type ... the machine is heavy.

Send me a PM if you would like to travel the Eltham to have a good look at the machine.

Regards

Rob

[cava]

Has anyone tried the TJ-X250P?

https://www.carbatec.com.au/machinery-and-accessories/planer-thicknessers/planer-thicknessers/10-planer-thicknesser-combo-old-code-aw106ptx-with-spiral-head


I had the same discussion with some of the staff at Carbatec recently.They steered me towards the Jet as the better option - the Carbatec model TJ-X250P apparently has had a lot of warranty issues.

[elanjacobs]

+1 for a helical head, especially if you're going to be running re-claimed timber; the carbide inserts will take a lot more abuse than HSS knives before going dull

Also, this is a spiral head:
https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1eH_jHpXXXXbNXpXXq6xXFXXXH/205995658/HTB1eH_jHpXXXXbNXpXXq6xXFXXXH.jpg

This is a helical head:
http://www.wizardproducts.com.au/images/products/Shelix%202.jpg

Spiral heads have the inserts square to the axis; it's basically a straight knife that's chopped up to reduce the noise
Helical heads have the inserts at an angle so you get a shearing/slicing action as it cuts to reduce tear-out as well as noise, thus they are the better option

The Hafco has a helical head in the pics, can't see the CT one so I'd recommend you check it in person; don't expect the sales guy on the phone to know the difference and don't let them try to tell you they're the same.

This is one on my pet peeves, but it's important to understand the difference.

End rant :2tsup:

[Tahlee]

+1 for a helical head, especially if you're going to be running re-claimed timber; the carbide inserts will take a lot more abuse than HSS knives before going dull

Also, this is a spiral head:
https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1eH_jHpXXXXbNXpXXq6xXFXXXH/205995658/HTB1eH_jHpXXXXbNXpXXq6xXFXXXH.jpg

This is a helical head:
http://www.wizardproducts.com.au/images/products/Shelix%202.jpg

Spiral heads have the inserts square to the axis; it's basically a straight knife that's chopped up to reduce the noise
Helical heads have the inserts at an angle so you get a shearing/slicing action as it cuts to reduce tear-out as well as noise, thus they are the better option

The Hafco has a helical head in the pics, can't see the CT one so I'd recommend you check it in person; don't expect the sales guy on the phone to know the difference and don't let them try to tell you they're the same.

This is one on my pet peeves, but it's important to understand the difference.

End rant :2tsup:

The Carbatec combo that I have has the Helical head ... slices slightly across the grain ... not down the grain

[Tjc123]

Thanks so much everyone, some really helpful advice.

Tahlee, thanks for the kind offer. I'll go into the shop and check them all out, I would really like to see the quality of them all before deciding. I'll do a bit of research on those warranty issues as well.

Thanks again everyone!

[sleake]

I will go against the grain here and you suggest save some coin and just go with straight knives. I use alot - ALOT - of recycled hardwood, and have put at least one cubic meter through my current set of knives, and they still have a while before i will consider swapping them. The only issue is extra noise, as there is minimal tearout in our woods anyway, apart from spotted gum. And to swap knives is 20 min of zen shed time and then 20 bucks to have them reground - no real issues there.


Two tricks here - firstly learn to hone knives with a slipstone while in the cutter head. This will get them cuttng like new with 5 minutes effort.

Secondly, dedicate one side of your thicknesser for the first pass, to remove the dirt, gravel and nails from the wood.

I really think there is a bit too much hype around spirals, unless your neighborhood hates you or you only use flame maple and blackwood etc, in which case you can afford the spiral anyway!

If space is no problem, a dedicated jointer and thicknesser is very handy as Murphy's law makes the combo always the wrong way round for that 10 second job you want done now! The cost of a straight blade jointer and thicknesser is comparitive to a single spiral thicknesser/comvo anyway.

Just my opinion, but i strongly recommend you at least try a straight knife machine before you buy a spiral - they really do work incredibly well and deserve more credit. Particularly if you are coming straight from hand tools.

My 2c.
Steve

[Wynterplace]

There seems to be so many thread on thicknessers across so many sub-forums... I can't remember wher i've asked a question. So i'm going to ask it here, in the correct forum in a thread that already exists.

I'm looking at buying a thicknesser, and have narrowed it down to;

Dewalt DW735-XE (Dewalt - 1800W 330mm Thicknesser - DW735-XE | Total Tools (http://www.totaltools.com.au/dewalt-1800w-330mm-thicknesser-dw735-xe/i1178819/))
- $999.00
- Three-blade cutter (straight blade)
- 1800w
- 330mm width
- no infeed/outfeed tables
- 2 speed

Carbatec TH-BX330P (https://www.carbatec.com.au/machinery-and-accessories/thicknessers-and-accessories/thicknessers/carbatec-330mm-thicknesser-benchtop-helical-head-1-carton)
- $899.00
- Spiral head cutter (not helical)
- 1800w
- 330mm width
- Has infeed/outfeed tables
- 1 speed

Apart from the 2 speed settings, is there anything that would make you choose the Dewalt at a higher price point over the Carbatec?

I will be running quite a bit of hardwood through it, mostly reclaimed timber.

[orraloon]

I looked at the carbatec model last year and also a similar one that hare and forbes sell. The cost of replacement cutters put me off those. I got the Dewalt and am very happy with it. The 2 speed feed is well worth the extra 100 bucks and that hundred would soon go on new cutters for the other one. The dewalt also has a chip blower so for those who do not have a dusty the shavings can be blown into a bag outside the shed. I have a home made jig to sharpen the cutters so get longer out of them too. Only gripe with the dewalt is you have to buy the extra infeed and outfeed tables separate and I feel that is a bit cheeky. Got them online as not available in Australia.
Regards
John

[GraemeCook]

.....Secondly, dedicate one side of your thicknesser for the first pass, to remove the dirt, gravel and nails from the wood......

Thanks for the post, Steve.

But I am not really sure what you mean by the above post. Could you elaborate, please?


Cheers

Graeme

[Wynterplace]

I think he's suggesting that by using only one side of the thicknesser for first passes, which are by nature harder on the blades due to the condition of the outer surface of the timber, especially reclaimed timber... You'll only trash one side of them, keeping the other side in good condition for longer, to do your finishing passes.

It'll work if your thicknesser is twice as wide as the wood you're regularly running through it.

I would probably just put some time in to making sure the timber doesn't pose too much of a risk to your equipment by scrubbing it down with a stiff brush and making sure you de-nail the boards first.

[GraemeCook]

Thanks Winter

That means, if he has a 300 mm thicknesser, then he uses the left 150 mm for rough work and the right 150 mm for finish work. Would require a lot of discipline, and luck.

I just have two sets of thicknesser blades.

Cheers

Graeme

[derekcohen]

My rule of thumb for an ideal partnership of machines is that the bandsaw resaw depth = jointer width = thicknesser width.

There is little point in a very wide thicknesser unless you are thicknessing panels, which is rare. I thickness boards. There is, therefore, wasted width in a thicknesser is you cannot process boards wider than from, say, an 8" (6" is even more limiting) wide jointer.

Most bandsaws today can manage about 10" resaw (mine does 11 1/2"). If all you can resaw is 6", then a 15" wide thicknesser does not make sense.

Long and short of it: If you can afford a 10" combination machine, you get a 10" wide jointer thrown in. That makes sense. Carba-tec offer one at a reasonable price.

Get the helical or spiral blades! They are quiet (important for family and neighbours) and easy to keep sharp.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[sleake]

Yep, as mentioned above, left side is for the first few passes, then finish with the right. When i replace knives, the first chip will determine what side i use, and i draw a big arrow on the top of the thicknesser to remind myself. When planing wide boards, the first pass will leave ridges, however on the finish pass bykeepingg the depth the same and reversing the way the board is fed in the machine, the ridges will be removed.

[Joseseat]

I have one of these .. the spiral/helix head one ... for 2 years now ...

Here is a video on them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ppb52hCgKU

I am very happy with the machine ... use it several times per week.

You have to take the cast iron fence off and fold back the jointer table to access the thichneser ... takes less than 1 minute ... some say its a pain but I tend to do all my jointing and then convert my machine to a thicknesser ... I would think that this swap over would take less time than rolling out separate machines

I have rotated the blades twice ... once a year ... I think you can resharpen them ... they are costly if you cant.... but I have another 2 years before the blades are rotated on all four sides.

My big tip is to get the Axminster height dial gauge ... they are fantastic ... can really rely of the accuracy and cut reliably to within 0.05mm.

The big note is that the motor is 1.5hp ... and it can really do a full 245mm board of walnut to 1mm .... but I prefer to do such wide boards at a lesser rate.

The Jet 310 is a better machine ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuTkYUCX3ao but I have never been let down by the Carbatec model.

You will need to get a dial indicator to confirm the setup ... BIG TIP dont mess around with the set-up unless you have a dial indicator.

I get absolutely no snipe on the jointer ... or lengths under 1.5m on the thickneser ... for long boards of 2.4M i do get some snipe but only because i dont have a long outfeed table.

The helix head is actually less s noisy than the dust collector .. do yourself a favour and get the helix head first off.

Make sure you get a good 4 wheel base ... all 4 wheels pivot type ... the machine is heavy.

Send me a PM if you would like to travel the Eltham to have a good look at the machine.

Regards

Rob
Did you import one of them from the UK?

[Wynterplace]

So I just picked up my new Carbatec 13" spiral head thicknesser... It's awesome!

Straight out of the box, there was about 50mm of snipe at either end of the oregon I ran through as a test, with a small adjustment to the feed tables, that was gone.

I ran a few offcuts of radiata pine, oregon and some ash through it and was really impressed. I was only taking 0.5mm - 1.0mm at a time but it wasn't noisy at all... To give you an idea of how quiet it is, my wife still managed to get our 2yr old daughter down for bedtime while I was running it 6ft away with only a brick veneer wall between us.

Chip clearance was fine while just using my little Ryobi shop vac, I took the shroud off afterwards and checked for build up and found none.

Really looking forward to running some more through it over the weekend.

[Wynterplace]

I put some more ash through it today, and some old spotted gum flooring... The gum made some racket, even taking just 0.5mm off, and it struggled to feed in some points. I think the tables were a little high after my snipe adjustment so the board was being pressed down in the middle by the head/rollers... but it was easily overcome by keeping some light pressure on the board as it went in, and then a light pull on the way out.

Still very pleased with it, I might just be a little more selective about the hours I run hardwood through it.

[Tahlee]

Congrats on the acquisition.

I note from your post of the 28th that you adjusted the tables .. and on the 29th you again had snipe ... take it from me ... personal experience with jointer .. that you don't really want to go changing the table's factory settings unless you have precision measuring equipment ... avoid the temptation.

The snipe at the beginning of the piece is usually caused when longer pieces are fed into the machine at an angle other than perfectly horizontal ... and if they drop on the outfeed they will also snipe .. If you aint getting snipe on short pieces (say 500mm or less) but on longer pieces then the angle of approach and departure is most likely. Build some infeed and outfeed tables and see the results before adjusting the machine tables.

I do get the occasional snipe on my combo thicknesser on heavy long pieces .... and my table is one piece of solid cast iron for its entire length. But I live with it as the logistics of 2ms of infeed table and 2m of outfeed is well beyond the price of the snipe ... also my tables changes height ... not the cutter head.

Have lots of fun with the new machine ..(I think Carbatec recommend tungsten blades if you are doing hardwoods)

Regards

Rob

[Wynterplace]

Thanks for the feedback Rob, i'm quite new to some of the machines i've got now, so I appreciate any insights from those with much more knowledge.

The snipe was on a workpiece about 450mm long, the fact it was even both ends, and the snipe was the same length as the distance between the drive rollers and the cutter head, I assumed it was due to the piece entering in an upward angle, and then dropping as it exited... Because the feed tables were too low.

When I placed a straight edge (1.2m Kingchrome level) on the bed, I found that the tables were in fact low at the extremities, so I adjusted them to level this out. I slightly over adjusted them to allow for any flex in the tables, but it looks like the flex is less than I expected as on longer pieces the machine was struggling in the centre section as the cutter head was bending the longer timber down in the centre because the end of the table were slightly higher than the bed.

Because the adjustment bolts for the table are so close to the pivot point of the tables, even a tiny adjustment becomes significant when that angle is projected out to the end of the tables. Shouldn't be hard to get right though.

I'll be investing in the carbide cutters once these ones dull, which i'm expecting to happen rather quickly with the tiber i'm using... This is a price i'm willing to pay for the learning experience.